Being yourself vs. not acting like a PD

[athene1399]

I wanted to know if anyone else was struggling with this. As many of us were raised by PDs/uPDs, we ended up with fleas or some PD traits/symptoms. Yet so many people also say "be yourself". How do you balance that out?

To get more specific, I feel like I cannot be myself because I have too many PD traits. I have to constantly have a conversation with myself (like so and so didn't mean to make you feel bad, you're just being too sensitive) and filter what I say or how I act. I know I am too touchy and stupid things make me upset. And I know just becasue you're upset doesn't mean you have the right to act frustrated. I just feel like I have to pour so much energy into not acting like a PD.

And then people always say "just be yourself". I don't even know what that means. And the parts of me I do know are not socially acceptable. So I guess I don't know what to do with that. I feel like I am "acting" at all time. And myself is all or nothing. I'm either "meh" or intense about something. I have no middle and I feel like both extremes aren't conducive to making new friends or colleagues. I feel like I have to try to balance out two opposite personalities at all times.

Maybe it's something you just have to figure out over time. I just get so confused by the "be yourself" message. I know people are trying to help but I cannot be myself. Or maybe it's expressing how you feel in better ways? But I also feel even if you calmly say, "it hurt my feelings when you didn't notice i am wearing new shoes" or whatever, I would sound like a complete whack-a-do.  But that's literally the level of stupid things that makes me mad. And I know they are stupid, so I have to reassure myself. But if something serious happens, like a system I need to do my work crashes, I'm like "Whatever, It will get fixed at some point and everything will be fine." When you think about it, it makes no sense. Maybe that's why I get so frustrated with myself.   

Any way, now that I've written it out I feel it makes no sense at all and I feel crazy for saying it out loud (well, typing it on here). Thank you for listening. It's not end of the world stuff, but I've been thinking about it a lot lately and was wondering if anyone else had something similar going on or a different perspective on it.

[StayWithMe]

Be Yourself is the most useless and inane advice known to man.  My mother likes to say it with her bright eyes glinting as if she is saying something profound.

As we go through our day, no, we are not always doing what we feel like doing.  We are doing what is expected of us because there is a payoff out there that you want.  you wear that tight uncomfortable suit with your high heels because you want that job.  You drive speed limit because you want to avoid that speeding ticket and so on.

As you go through the day, you make lots of tradeoffs to avoid agro.  You give up your seat on public transport to a person in wheelchair even when you're dog tired because you don't want the authorities writing you up.

So what does that mean for you?  Actually, it would be interesting if you could report back 3 or 4 incidences in which you felt you weren't being yourself.  What would you rather have been doing / behaving / saying at that moment?  Were you looking for a certain payoff at that moment? ie to be included in the group; to be invited back; etc.     

[D.Dan]

Have you ever seen the movie "The Iron Giant"?

One of the main messages was, you can choose who you want to be.

It's one of those concepts that left its mark on me. That no matter my past, what I was taught/not taught, the choices I have already made, that I can still be the person I want to be going forward.

[1footouttadefog]

I think that we can have core values and at the same time struggle to be that person.  If we a genuine in wanting to be our best and at the same time are managing our own weaknesses or bad habits, it can make us feel fake.

It is common for nons to develope bad habits, or pd like behaviors from adapting to being in a pd rich environment.  Some call this having  fleas.

As to "being yourself" yes do this.  However yourself can be an evolving self.  A maturing self. A healing self.  It's perfectly okay to monitor and self filter and analize.  It's okay to remove fleas.

Being yourself does not have to be a static set of parameters.  It can as well be a direction that a journey is taking.  We might be stearing and propelling our ship with great effort at times and spinning in place at some points, sitting still in the water at others sailing smoothly in our chosen direction at yet other times.  All of these can be being ourself.

[notrightinthehead]

Athene I think you are so brave by opening up this can of worms!

I used to have a temper thanks to my abusive mother and sometimes I was amazed at what I said and did - afterwards. So yes, be yourself would have been a roller coaster between feeling and behaving like a worm and a dragon, thank you very much.

What I learned in therapy is that there is no other way than to accept myself totally. Even the bad bits. I believe if we manage to integrate them we can be whole. That does not mean that we have to act on every impulse. There is a big difference between feeling, thinking, and doing.

[doingoveroroverdoing]

Im glad you wrote this. I often say  "Don't be yourself"l." It's always been kind of tongue & cheek.

I didn't explicitly let go of the belief that I must love and accept myself until I came here & learned about fleas. I was beating myself up for not loving and being myself. Knowing it's ok for me to accept that my self is not great has been kind of liberating.

"don't be yourself" doesn't sound encouraging , and it's not ideal to be extreme in language. But really I can't just be myself! My self doesn't exist much or sucks in many ways.  I've been in therapy off and on & have tried to love & accept myself & ive gotten better in many ways but I couldn't see a path to being myself.

I guess it's just there are levels to this & every human deserves to be.  maybe if i were religious it'd be easier to know there is a self that's already worthy.

.
Maybe being oneself really isn't a step everyone needs to take. The not liking or trusting myself is what made it possible for me to ask for help, which has brought the good things into my life. Knowing that I'm not ok, and not being defensive about it has led to change.  Being able to believe & trust people to help, overriding my programming,  is one thing I feel is me & so not my uPDm. 

I have so much more to do. It's is hard not be too overcome with embarrassment & get stalled. I need to see how I need to reprogram & practice at it.

I don't know that this is helpful, but I'll not worry about being exact & hit post.

You're not alone!!

[hhaw]

I love this topic.  Thanks athena for opening it up: )

I've been seeing a wonderful T with a background in trauma.  She has Buddhist leanings, is in recovery herself, and that's lead to her referring Pia Mellody's book FACING CODEPENDENCE, along with the workbook.  Pia sort of came up with the whole codependence things, so her videos are typically very old, but still full of information. 

I'm also reading HAPPINESS by Thich Nhat Hanh.  I'll read PEAE IS EVERY STEP next.  This is practice, and I don't do any of it perfectly.  I just keep trying, which helps make the kinds of connections on this thread, IME. 

The main thing is to drop all judgment, and fear.....
to get very curious about our innerworld, what we're feeling in our bodies, where is it?  Locate it, and give it our full attention, then ask ourselves why it's there, when it started, etc.

/If I can drop judgment, I can tune into things beneath my emotions... the default pathways in my brain I don't typically think about, and give myself more choice around how I'd really like to RESPOND, rather than to react out of habit, kwim?

So, back to practicing: )

[athene1399]

Everyone has such great replies!

Stay with Me: I think your post really helped put everything in perspective. It's called adulting. lol You have great examples for that. Part of my problem is I am quick to anger. Like at work. The woman next to me triggers me because she scolds everyone for being a "crappy employee" like she thinks she's their mom. It reminds me of my mom and I get so mad. I want to kind of tell her to stop talking down to people, but it will just start an argument. Plus I am not her manager. I just walk away and take a break it if gets too much. I should have a new job by next year this time, so I keep reminding myself of that.

Sometimes I feel selfish when I ask for what I want, so that's something I have to work on. SO has picked up on this which is good because now he's like, "I feel like you are trying to ask something. Can you please let me know what you want?" That still takes me a while to ask. Sometimes I go to the other extreme though and I want the world to revolve around me. Then I get upset when things don't go my way, but that's just childish. Then I have this weird thing where I want attention, then when I have it I'm uncomfortable. It's so weird. LIke I want people to notice my hard work, but if someone does say something I get really uncomfortable and just want to disappear again.

D.Dan: I find the "be the person you want to be" inspiring. I always fight my inner anxieties and am proud that I don't let my trauma define or limit me. Half of me wants to be a shut in. I don't even like going to the store if I need food, but I make myself go. Sometimes though if SO has to go to the store he'll invite me to go and I just don't want to deal with it so just stay home. But I never want to go so am proud of when I do make myself go. I also don't want to talk to people, but practice that every day. I'm also in grad school and that's scary, but I want to do it regardless of my anxiety.  So that's very in line with what you are saying I think. I could be very low functioning, but try hard to be better.

1foot: what you said about striving to be better and sometimes falling short making us feel fake is spot on. I think I struggle with that the most. I also like your idea of the "healing self". I also see a lot of myself in SO's BPDxw, and I think that makes me feel fake. I feel like I am lying to his family because they all like me, but I know deep down I am struggling not to be just like his ex. I guess the difference is the majority of the time now I can filter myself and think before reacting. I used to not be able to do that. And she's always saying how she's not the same person she used to be, but according to him she is. And I feel that I'm not the same person, so then I doubt if I've made progress at all (like maybe I'm like her thinking I've changed when in reality I haven't). But I think growing up I was made to feel so unsure of myself and reality, that's probably why I second guess everything.

Notright: Being myself could be a roller coaster. I completely understand. I oscillate between being emotionally devoid and emotionally overwhelmed. I guess that's a trauma thing though. Due to our abusive pasts we have problems with affect regulation or emotional regulation, but can detach becasue that's how we survived. There's a lot of neuro-biology going on there that I forget about. My mom was quick to temper. She did not model good coping strategies. Plus she was kind of oppressive. I'm not sure how else to describe it. But I was often told I wasn't allowed to be how I felt, how I was, how I acted. I am also quick to temper, but it is over such stupid things. But they feel so huge. I've gotten better at focusing on breathing when it happens, but I do let myself grumble more at home when I am alone. If my neighbors hear me they probably think I'm crazy because I'll mutter complaints when alone. If someone's there I hold it in because I don't want to be mean to my partner all the time at home. But I'm also learning to vocalize, like "I got upset because you forgot to change the toilet paper" or whatever. But I also don't want him to feel I'm nitpicking him all the time. I don't want him to think that he can't do anything right around me. That's what my mom used to do all the time and I don't think that's fair either.

Doingover: within the last seven years I realized part of my problem was not loving myself. Within the last two I realized I trust no one. I'm also figuring out how it all fits in with my childhood. While I can finally accept myself, I also don't think I can live life unfiltered (totally get the "don't be yourself"). Also, accepting myself has helped to cut back on a lot of the negative chatter going on between the conflicting "personalities" in my head. I joke with SO one personality is depressed and the other has BPD and sometimes we argue all day long. But I think the one is just things my mom or dad would say to be as a child. All that negative stuff. I'm learning to label it as not my thought, but someone else's. That helps too. Some of it is a "me" thought, but a lot is not.

And going back to SO's BPDxw, once they were married and she got abusive, she would say to him "but this is who I am!" when she let her mask slip off. I guess I'm afraid that's me too and one day I will do that. But I think being self-aware helps to prevent that. I should just stop worrying. Then there's mom hitting menopause and going super PD delusional and I can't help think "Holy crap. Is that my future?" LIke I'm doomed to give in to the PD lurking inside me.

Hhaw: I want a T, especially one who knows childhood trauma. I don't think my insurance covers it (i have a high deductible), but this time next year I should l have a new job. But I've been thinking to find a place I can afford paying out of pocket. So maybe I should see what my options are. I think I've healed as much as I can on my own. And my grad program has brought up a lot of childhood trauma stuff I've been ignoring for so long, I really need to process some of it more. I will have to check out your book suggestions. I really like Buddhist teachings/ideas. I try to meditate nightly. That's help a lot. I used to have insomnia and haven't in about ten years (minus when SO was in court with his ex, but that's a whole 'nother story).  I like your idea of dropping judgement. I probably judge myself too much. I should observe more in my inner world instead of judge. I like the idea of seeing the choice in how to respond. I think I was in survival mode for so long, there wasn't a choice. I have to remind myself that I do have one now. Things are different. I shouldn't have to be in survival mode. I really should journal, but I'm so afraid someone will see it. I also work through a lot on this site, which does help a ton.

Sorry this is so long. I wanted to respond to everyone. You were all so insightful. And I feel a lot better about this. Thank you so much!

[Free2Bme]

athene, et al,

Needful discussion here. 

Athene, I think the litmus test is that you are actually being "introspective" by virtue of asking the question, PD's are not introspective.  Pd's (overt or covert) are not too concerned with how they come off to others, unless of course it benefits themselves.  You however, show evidence of a conscience and I think that excludes you from the PD club !   

"Be yourself" is a close cousin to "Follow your heart", which I abhor.  Utter stupidity!

I don't have all the answers, but, I don't think it healthy to be "people pleasers" or "navel-gazers", (I've tried both!)

Also important to remember we are all in process and in need of much grace, for ourselves and others.

So good to have a safe place to pose these weighty questions, and to share ideas and collective wisdom   

[SparkStillLit]

I try to remember who I am when I'm not constantly censoring myself or stopping myself or wanting to wait for permission or....
She's buried way, WAY down there. She "talks too much" and is "too loud" and gestures too violently and I guess is just too present and takes up too much space and lives up too much life, so I'm really desperately trying to dig her out, dust her off, and let her life out loud flag fly!

[StayWithMe]

After years of raunchy talk and perhaps too much oversharing, I find it empowering to filter myself, say less and understand how people might use the information that I give them.

That's being myself these days.

[hhaw]

I find it helpful to pause, before speaking, and ask muself if  what I'm about to say is necessary, and will it get my authentic self more of what I want?

And I also question whether the person I'm speaking to has my best interest in mind.  I have to work on not oversharing, or offering to help without being asked, etc. 

If I can slow down, learn to pause and breathe as a habit, then ask those questions.... I'll get more of what I want, and learn how to become more and more authentic, IMO.

It's not easy, bc it's a battle to stop and think, and not just fall into default patterns.  Particularly when I'm stressed.

[PeanutButter]

The main thing is to drop all judgment, and fear.....
to get very curious about our innerworld, what we're feeling in our bodies, where is it?  Locate it, and give it our full attention, then ask ourselves why it's there, when it started, etc.
/If I can drop judgment, I can tune into things beneath my emotions... the default pathways in my brain I don't typically think about, and give myself more choice around how I'd really like to RESPOND, rather than to react out of habit, kwim
So, back to practicing: )

I  am googleing the books referenced.
I love these ideas.
Thanks athene1399 great topic and I am gaining so much from the smorgasbord of experiences on here! Thanks to every one!
I was totally unaware of my inner world before. I think that 'hearing' what my thoughts are has allowed me to gain control over 'being myself' (authentic) or just being reactive to my limbic brain (where family systems patterns are stored).
The "drop all judgment and fear" although I had not heard of that, was actually vital for me to heal.
Even though I had an overly critical and very judgemental ubpdM whom I wanted to be the total opposite of, it was hard to maintain what I felt this should look like outwardly. Turns out the reason it was so hard was because I had an inner critic constantly creating inner dialoge that was just as bad as what ubpdM had been saying. I didnt know that was why or what I was reacting too. Once I began to examine it was all fear based. I had been living my life in a chronicly fearful of 'worse case scenario' state. That was EXACTLY like what my ubpdM had modeled. So my conclusion is that I wasnt being my true self when being reactive to and unaware of my inner world.

[SparkStillLit]

All my remembered life, continuing to this day by others in my life, I have been hushed and shushed, gestured at, frowned, eyebrow elevened, head pecked (you know, when someone jerks their head at you), ignored, body blocked, everything you can possibly think of to quiet or silence me and make me unheard in every way, until the roaring fire that was my (and everyone's) spirit has been dampened down to a teeny tiny little spark. Hence my name. It's there, though, and that's why I say I want to get "loud" again, be heard, and know that my voice, my thoughts, my stories, my ideas, all have value and are worthy of being heard. It's easy to say and do online, where nobody can make faces or gestures or tell you SHHHHH! Not so easy in person.

[Whatthehey]

This is a good discussion.  I have been mulling it over as well.  I left my 33 year marriage to stbxOCPDh a few months ago.  I married at 21 years of age.  Just a baby.  My mother was an alcoholic and my father traveled 75% of the time.  Two of my siblings are PD.  I have/had many fleas.  Identifying them is a real problem!  Especially I don't know what normal really is.

So being true to myself - a trite and overused phrase that has worn out all mean - is a struggle.  I don't know who I am.  I went from home to hearth without any time to be me.  Now I sit here and completely identify with not going to the store or talking to others.  My moods swing from high to low in the blink of an eye.

My psychiatrist and therapist both have said its normal to feel this way. That after experiencing daily trauma and living that eggshell life - we aren't expected to know who we are or what we want.

I am trying to approach each new situation differently.  I used to watch TV when working from home as background noise.  Now, I am OK with silence and I have found it easier to hear my own thoughts and opinions.  I try not to filter my responses when I am forced to be social.  Funny enough, no one really looks at me odd.  I was looked at odd when I spoke and filtered my responses through my ex's lense.   

Last week, I really pushed through some anxiety and invited women I know and respect to come over for dinner.  I had written letters to my ex, my parents, my children and my rapist.  I poured all my hate and vitriol onto the page - figuratively bleeding onto those pages.  Then with their support, I burned them. 

I hoped it would leave to an immediate release of emotion but I realized that the release came in the writing.  Having those women around showed me that I am valued as a person.  That I have worth.

Such a good discussion.  Thank you for raising it.

[Hazy111]

Denial helps.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I think I understand. How the heck can I be myself when I don’t even know who I am? I had a new friend ask me what my favorite food was recently, just as a getting-to-know you question, and I had NO IDEA how to answer her.  Very embarrassing.

I love what was said about how we get to choose who we are. We can to choose our values, as well as our tastes and hobbies. We get to grow up basically. And that’s a process. I feel like Julia Roberts in Runaway Bride when she had no idea how she really liked her eggs. They just cooked ‘em a bunch of ways and tried them all! That’s a process that probably should have happened in childhood and adolescence but hey better late than never...

For us ACONs our growing up was stifled. My uNM imposed her tastes on me and took extreme offense when I expressed a differing opinion on objectively neutral matters. For example, she insisted on making my “favorite” potatoes every holiday, even though I never ate much of them. One year she claimed she wouldn’t be able to make them because she had so much to deal with and she was sooo sorry to disappoint me. (i.e. Cordelia needs to make the potatoes. ) It just slipped out no big deal I never really liked them. Apparently I’d “stabbed her with a knife” that I didn’t appreciate her slaving over the years FOR ME. (These really are the most complicated mashed potatoes known to mankind. Of course. Maximum martyr points.) She bought me almost every Christmas the same the “country clutter” decor she likes, and it took me a few years after getting married to even articulate that wasn’t my style. (No offense to you if you like that!) She still bought it for me. And my sisters did too. So now that that BS is out of my life, what is my style... is still a work in progress. I do enjoy artistic pursuits generally but I definitely have moments of self-doubt and fear/guilt over spending money on things I like etc. I’m still getting used to the idea that I’m allowed to have my own opinions and tastes independent of anyone else’s.

These are more neutral things. Owning bigger stuff, more adult things, like my religious faith, how DH and I want to raise our family, being a person of integrity in my relationships, that somehow is easier for me. At least in my head and making those decisions. The execution is sometimes shaky.

[athene1399]

Cordelia, I don't have a favorite food either! lol I know what I hate, but something I love... I have no idea. I would also agree that our growing up was stifled.

Whatthehay, thank you for sharing your story. I've considered writing letters, but I get so angry sometimes. I also get intense mood swings, but try to act like nothing is going on. Maybe I need to learn to work through them better. I guess it's also easier for me to see the bad parts of myself than the good. Like when thinking about the topic, I'm afraid to be myself becasue I can only see the bad parts. Like the mood swings and selfishness and irritation and anger. I can't think of one good thing about "being myself". That's probably part of the problem. I didn't think of it before now.

Sparkstilllit, it is so much easier to share online. I feel I keep so much bottled up in real like. I do open up to SO, but sometimes I feel I have more to share than he can hanlde. I guess that's where a T comes in, but I haven't figured out how to afford one. I insurance won't cover, but I'm sure there has to be affordable options out there. At any rate, everyone here is really great when it comes to helping people work through stuff like this, or just sharing their stories in general.

PB, I am also learning that my inner critic is the voice of my parents.  I"ve been trying to label it as such to help myself sort through it. LIke, "that's not me. that's what M would say." Then I try to dig deep and see how I really feel. It's tough. Often I do not know.

I find it helpful to pause, before speaking, and ask muself if  what I'm about to say is necessary, and will it get my authentic self more of what I want?

I've been working on this. I feel it is good advice.

Staywithme, I have learned to filter myself around certain people. Especially my parents. Certain coworkers too.

Hazy, could you elaborate on "denial helps"? I'm not sure how that fits in, but want to understand your point of view.

Free2be, thank you for your thoughts on the PD litmus test. Sometimes I feel like a PD in recovery. Maybe that's the best way for me to think about it because it keeps me being introspective. If I woke up one day feeling like I didn't have PD symptoms, they'd probably come back. I think being self aware helps to keep them at bay, most of the time anyway. Sometimes intense emotions are hard to sort through without reaction, but I've been working at being mindful. Some days are better than others but I guess that's true with everyone.

My other problem is i used to enmesh with whoever I was dating. I didn't know who I was if I wasn't with anyone. I'd like to think I'm not like this now, but I am not sure. It's nice that SO doesn't always let me "go with the flow". He really wants me to share my opinions and wants. That get frustrating, because often I have no idea.

I guess it's a work in progress. We can't just wake up one day and know who we are or who we should be after having it dictated to us for so long. But talking about it here really helps.

[Hazy111]

Athene 1399,

Your post i think can hit a raw nerve and one i would like to have posted but was afraid to ask, due to the extreme sensitivities involved. I am wary of replying. I dont wish to trigger people , but im expressing my own beliefs that i have come to over many years. It might not be a very popular opinion.

I dont follow the belief that ive seen expressed on this thread and many others. Self awareness and insight means youre not PD. Why?

PDs are quite capable of showing a conscience and helping others. My uBPD "hermit/waif" mother was a nurse all her life. Christine Lawson explains their motivations.

"A self aware insightful narcissist is still a narcissist". Masterson (famous therapist) tells the story about how his article in the press about narcissists once triggered an avalanche of enquiries for treatment by him. When he referred some of them for treatment by his quite capable assistant (therefore inferior in their eyes) they never got back . "Only the best for the grandiose narc" 

I said "denial helps" . If i tell myself im not , then im not. Move on, nothing to see or analyse here.

I agree with the nonsense " just be yourself" beloved of a million self help books doesnt help anyone, like the ludicrous " think positive" .

A weak PD self can be an adult normal sensible person one minute, then immature irrational impulsive etc the next and back again .

It goes back to my belief that i have come to, that PD is much more common than is thought, its a spectrum to which we all vulnerable ( having PD parents is a strong indicator) some much more so and pronounced than others. I can now see it for what it is, when i witness it , in myself and others. Our PD parents also crushed all sense of ourselves as we grew up, as we were there to support their fragile pysches. So how on earth can we be ourselves?

As this is something extremely painful to admit to, it can be much easier to be in denial than to open the proverbial "can of worms".

I dont believe in the fleas concept im afraid.  I also believe that PD can ameliorate with age if one is self aware and has insight. But there are so many imponderables and triggers in life.

hhaw, whatthehay peanutbutter staywithme   make some very helpful suggestions. I follow these also as best i can , when im not being triggered. Good luck to everyone, it wasnt our fault.

[1footouttadefog]

I agree that PD people can have empathy to a degree and that these things are all on a spectrum.

I also agree with the flees concept.  I have know many otherwise great people who are not of who learned or acquired some bad coping mechanisms or distorted perspectives due to being brought up in a pd rich dysfunctional environment. 

It is a struggle for them as they learn what is normal and not normal and how to interact with and what are the typical boundaries of normal people.  This can be painful to learn and sheding such fleas is both a healing process and a maturing process as well as being painful and requiring bravery to be self insightful.