Is this an effective strategy?

[H_Allison]

Just a quick question for those who have more experience with this. Is it generally inflammatory to use pdIL's logic/excuses for my FOC when it meets our needs? Or is this a subtle and appropriate way to affirm that we are following their lead?

Example: nMIL lives 4 hrs away. Even when she is visiting a town 30min from our house, she doesn't attempt to see DD or DH because it is a work night, it would be too much for the baby, she's tired, she has to drive home, etc even after we offer to meet up with her. When being challenged about why we don't visit her, can I use her same excuses?

I know that we really don't owe her any explanation, but we are attempting this whole starting over fresh thing where we have communicated that the ball is in her court to demonstrate that she wants a relationship with us. DH and I are on the same page and not opening up to her because of anything other than our own conscience- so long as it doesn't harm us in any way, we are giving her all the chances she deserves to attain what she says she wants.  I am willing to cautiously allow contact to increase (which I feel is generous enough), but I am completely following her lead in terms of the effort and sacrifice I make to facilitate her. With this in mind, is using her same logic (only when it truly applies) to keep our effort/enthusiasm on par with hers? Will this backfire on me or is this an effective strategy?

[bloomie]

H_Allison - If I am understanding correctly your FOC are adjusting your emotional and physical engagement  - effort so to speak, to be in line with the level of interest and effort your mil is actually making toward your family.

I really, really wish I had had the wisdom to do that waaaayyyy back when like you all do! But, thanks to Out of the FOG and a lot of recovery work I have learned to move back to a neutral position and along with that to use "language" that is common to the in law's like you are also thinking of doing.

It helps me to see the family dynamic as entering a different culture and offering an acceptable, commonly used phrase to decline something does sometimes (not always) help or at the least stops them in their tracks long enough for me to skedaddle out of the convo. 

Using strategy and savvy to communicate with someone who is potentially a difficult person in our lives or around a potentially triggering situation is really wise.

[all4peace]

My T flat-out told his estranged father that he (the T) would exert the same amt of energy and effort for his F that his F gave to him.

If you don't want to be that direct, you could do as you suggest. I like that you're sorting out in your mind what is truly matching your effort to her level of effort, versus passive-aggressive tit-for-tat communication. I think that makes all the difference. It's what DH and I eventually did with his family. Rather than giving 1000% for their 5%, we started lowering our energy level until it was more equal.

I don't know what you mean by "backfire." If you mean your MIL won't like it, I bet she won't. I think we need to acknowledge that when we make changes, the other person is very unlikely to enjoy those changes. We're not making the changes to please the other person. We're making changes to find a more livable equitable relationship model.

DH and I have found "That doesn't work for us" to be an incredibly useful phrase. Neutral, non-divulging, polite, direct. Good luck!

[StayWithMe]

I wouldn't tell people what my strategy is on something because they will call you on it ....... and you get less sympathy for it.

If you have a relative who forgets, well, your brain can be just as easily forgetful or more so even......  But if you tell people that's your strategy from the beginning, well, you're just game playing.

[bloomie]

Will this backfire on me or is this an effective strategy?

Popping back in to say that when we tacitly adjusted our level of energy and effort to match that our DH's family they didn't like it. Not one little bit. The relationship was built on an outrageous imbalance in their favor and different paradigms for different family members. So, it was an adjustment for sure as we set appropriate boundaries and separated from the status quo.   

One thing that helped us was to be sincere and honest in how we responded using phrasing that is common to that family system - which is what I think you are proposing - which gave us a stable foundation when someone didn't like our declining something.

An example of push back was after several years of uPDmil pushing for an intimate family dinner every time uPDsil came into town and us politely declining... it's a work night, that doesn't work for us, we are booked solid that week - all true.... in rage and frustration uPDmil confronted us and it went something like this..."I'm going to just stop asking! You have once again deeply hurt uPDsil and in despair she has asked me to just stop trying! I know you are not always busy you just don't want to go!" 

DH's response was honest and direct and went something like..."We actually are very busy and you only invite us when uPDsil is in town, never us as a family otherwise and you usually ask at the last minute which given our schedule will almost never work for us. That being said, the relationship is uncomfortable and not close and I would also appreciate if you stopped asking." 

So, yes sometimes our polite no thank you's do cause push back, but for us, since the previous responses were grounded in truth we were able to respond with calm hearts to rage and outrage and further accusations of US causing pain when we were not in any way the initiators.

[H_Allison]

Thank you all for the insight! It is reassuring to hear that it is not a petty thing to recriprocate effort. StayWithMe, I just want to clarify that I absolutely feel like I am game playing, but I believe that is a direct result of dealing with someone who doesn't have pure intentions. I feel like I would be a fool if I didn't match her game with a game of my own. That's why we are here, isn't it? To learn coping mechanisms and help each other come to terms with the management and reality of our situations? To learn the strategies necessary to protect ourselves and our FOC? We are just choosing to invest as much in her as she does in us. Time is not an endless commodity and especially now with DD, we are making conscious choices about how and when we invest our time. My family is no exception although the difference in how much they genuinely invest in us and DD often results in us spending more time with them. I would never tell mil that this is my strategy, but I will evaluate whether or not her own engagement terms in previous situations apply equally to me in others. If convenience is allowed to be a factor in her decision making, then it is in mine as well.

Bloomie and all4peace- as usual, I appreciate your advice. I wish that I could be as direct as I want to be with mil but DH struggles with confrontation (surprise!) and is not ready to have the conversation that would likely ensue if he were to be that honest. That's why I was looking for ways to achieve the same end without making things unclear or even worse somehow. I really like the concept of thinking of the family dynamics as a culture or a system. If I were traveling to a foreign country, I would try my best to adhere to the customs- the same is true for my ILs. I think that mil will not give us too much blow back directly, but will absolutely use this as amunition in her ever growing battle to portray the selfless, marginalized victim. She really just needs enough evidence to feed her social media facade without actually doing anything. And to that I say- go for it, woman! I don't care!

[Entj]

Hi H_Allison, you have already received excellent advice here This is a step to the right direction 

Just wanted to add that the quid pro quo strategy, ie giving back as much as you receive, is a sound strategy for balanced relationships in general. Most probably you're already employing this strategy, maybe unknowingly, to other relationships in your life without feeling the slightest amount of guilt and doubt.

Now surely there will be a backlash from a person who is self-centered and emotionally immature, as they expect others to put in all the work for a good relationship without reciprocating themselves and most certainly due to the entitlement mentality they sport in every aspect of their lives. I'd like to validate your strategy for dealing with such a person; and to go even further, I'd suggest that it is one of the most sustainable strategies in the long-term.

My beloved grandmother, whom I greatly appreciate as an advisor to my affairs, has advised me, wisely in my humble opinion, to only 'Say hi from a distance' with my in-laws - and were they ever to ask why we're not having much contact, to respond to them 'But you do not want us to have a closer relationship the way you behave'. And the grandma dropped the Mic!!!  In two sentences, she summed up going VLC and putting the responsibility for the fallout right where it belongs. No therapist has said it more eloquently than this 82-year old woman with no formal education. Bottom line: you have my granny's blessing for your strategy   

[Entj]

PS: Instead of the quite inflammatory 'you don't want a relationship with us, since you're behaving in such a way', which is unfortunately justified by the malignancy of my in-laws and the futile attempts we have already made to reconcile, you could simply say something along the lines 'oh but I see your schedule is very hectic and so is ours'. This way you say in effect 'if you're not willing to put in your fair share of the work needed to keep this relationship going, I won't be held responsible for maintaining it myself'.

Good luck anything you decide to do!