I was going to put a length of time in the title, but I realized I'm not sure how people here define long-term or very long-term NC. In my mind, I am thinking 10 years or longer, but it doesn't have to a rigid number. I think its definitely longer than five though.
Probably most of the traffic on this site is from people who are perhaps contemplating NC, and then the folks who are newly NC, or NC for a year or a few years. But I know there are others like me who have been NC for many years.
In my own experience, NC becomes a very different thing when you're talking about a decade or more. I made a thread about this a few years back and there were a lot of great responses, so I decided to start another thread for the people who are in this long-term category.
I am not going to jump into my own issues yet. I will just post this and see if any folks want to post on this topic, and then go from there. I hope anyone who feels like this resonates for them will share.
I've been nc with mostly ubpdm but also entire foo for about 16 years.
I don't envision this ever changing. I believe it's a permanent situation.
It's a long complicated story but I believe my h is uOCPD. At first I sort of felt I had to choose him or her, as they were both driving me crazy. But I've realized that even if I left h I still would not want a relationship with m.
I fall into that category. I went NC with my NPDmother in 2005 but remained in contact with my enFather. Nmother was diagnosed with cancer some five years into NC at which time enFather "punished" me with an extremely cruel and public disinheritance. At that time I decided to go NC with him as well.
Nmother passed away five years ago, ten years into NC. My father is still alive but I'm now about nine years NC with him, with no plans of ever breaking that. He's in his late 80s, so I expect he'll also pass away while I'm NC. If by some miracle he decides to apologize for the 50 years of abuse I endured then I would consider reconnecting, but I give that one a zero percent chance of ever happening.
It's hard, but the abuse was harder, so I'm at peace with my decision.
I have been NC for over 8 years now.....I have to sometimes see my uBPDm and uNPDf at family events, but rarely....I have one child (DS) who still maintains minimal contact...with that one connection to me, uBPDm has taken every.single.opportunity to try to annoy me (gave my DIL all photos of me, stating she had no idea what to do with them...this was the first time she met my DIL!) Both parents have stated to my DS that they have "no idea" why I am NC....told my DS that I am definitely "out of the will" because I won't have contact with them...
I have not responded to them in any way whatsoever in over 8 years...it's the best thing I have ever done....all of my children (adults) are very aware of the abuse I endured...DS maintains minimal relationship because he wants contact with my uNPDf....my father has never done anything to my DS, but my mother will take any and every opportunity to smear me....my DS is completely aware of her behaviors and after my father passes, I'm sure he will become NC....apparently my uBPDm isn't so good at hiding her true colors any more...
Both parents are in their 80's; both are alone and miserable; zero friends...(I do have a GC sis who is waiting for the payoff $$$ when they die)
Other than that, they have nothing but each other....
I think at this point, there are no illusions on either side....I know that I don't care what they do or what happens to them and I'm pretty sure they feel the same way....the extended years have allowed me to somewhat heal...but not enough to ever allow them access to my life :yeahthat:
I have been NC with uHPDsis for nearly 8 years and with the rest of FOO for 3.5 years (domino effect). This is permanent. enD is in his 80s and I realize I will never see him again. As the years go by I have had many life changes they know nothing about: 2 kids, a new career, a lifelong medical condition, etc etc etc. I have started to think that the person I am now is not the person who was once the SG and did everything to placate their waify behavior (even down to my hair color, which I now choose as I please). I firmly believe that I have exited that family to create a family and life of my own and that I am *no longer* "their" D, "their" S, or *their* aunt.
About 4 years into NC with uHPDsis, they *all* invested in plane tickets overseas to show up at my doorstep. At the time, I was so concerned that they would corner me at home, at work or somewhere else that I took time off and we all moved into a hotel for a week. For a few years after that, I would look over my shoulder to make sure the coast was clear when leaving my home or work.
Now, I have begun to see humor in the whole situation. I'll put it out here just for laughs (as far as I am aware what follows is coincidental): Their plan a few years ago was to fly over from the U.S. to the country where D-Day occurred, on the exact anniversary of D-Day, to invade my home and conquer me. So in our home, we refer to the incident as "the allied landing". I'm glad the historical one was more successful than theirs!
I am 15 years NC with my mother, she made a couple of attempts 2 to win my children over but didn't pursue them, she informed me at one point (via another relative)that if I did not stop all this nonsense I would be disinherited, I didn't respond the end.
I don't miss anything about her, I can't imagine what it would be like to have had kind supportive genuine parents.
Thus far I have tolerated my father but I am finding it increasingly difficult.
I am 15 years no contact with all of my foo.
My ubpdm smeared me/played victim to people she knew talked to me. I also recieved 'messages' this way from both of my sisters. "Tell peanutbutter her sister says............blahblah." I had to eventually tell the flying monkeys I was not interested in hearing about these convos and messages.
For years i saw my enf as all good. I now realize that he could have and should have protected me. He also could have contacted me, but didnt.
So I see both my parents as the same kind of disordered now.
Thanks all of you here sharing. Thanks jennifersmith for starting this topic! I feel less alone!
Quote from: overitall on September 17, 2019, 12:42:50 AM
Both parents are in their 80's; both are alone and miserable; zero friends...(I do have a GC sis who is waiting for the payoff $$$ when they die)
That's my current situation, exactly, and I'm actually quite relieved by it. I guess you could call it a benefit of NC; being freed from any responsibility to provide eldercare for my abuser. Since GC sis is hovering about waiting for her payoff, that burden is all hers (and as sole heir, she's in more of a position to afford it anyway).
And while we're on the subject of long-time NC, I've also been NC with GC sis for at least ten years now. In her case, it was not my decision. She chose to go NC as a result of my mother's smear campaign. Based on her very vindictive actions in recent years, I also believe NC with her will be permanent.
Finally getting back to this thread... thank you to everyone who has posted so far! :wave: Personally, although I have absolutely zero regret about my decision to go NC, the ripple effects of it have been challenging. It helps to be able to share with others who are in this unique, and sad, situation. I will come back tonight and reply to specific posts.
There are many things to be discussed when dealing with long-term NC. If anyone feels like sharing what they would want to talk about, feel free. For me, its the impact on other family relationships. But I've come to realize that this is another sign of the unhealthy patterns in our family (which go back generations), so I've worked to let go of my anger at specific individuals.
Aw, JenniferSmith...the repercussions....wow, so many...
My adult children have no cousins....my parents gave me no option...it was either continue to be abused or flee the family...apparently when you flee the family, you WILL be punished. I also lost all of my cousins...my uBPDm has gone out of her way to smear me to all family members..even though everyone is well aware of how difficult she is, no one wants to face her wrath, so she continues on....
Fast forward to almost 10 years (8+ of NC) My adult children are fairly successful, happy, well adjusted...they have some resentment over no relationship with cousins, but they are aware of the reasoning (my parents) of why things fell apart....my parents are old (80+), so I do face that question of how I am "so mean" to my old parents...I simply address this by saying "I am safer apart from them" It usually stops the questioning
I used to think that age would diminish the efforts of my very, very aggressive uBPDm...that has not happened...my adult DD recently attempted to reconcile with her and faced a very volatile and angry response...my daughter (while at my home) telephoned her to tell her that in no way, shape, or form, would she ever treat or speak to my daughter in the way she had previously...her response..."we'll if you don't like it, then you don't have to deal with me" My daughter's response? Yep, I don't have to deal with you and I'm done. My daughter basically realized how toxic my uBPDm is...she is done and now has more appreciation for what I have had to deal with for my entire life...
As i get older, I realize that my FOO and my issues are not as important to my children (all adults)...it was not their mother and father and I shielded them from a lot of the abuse....they are slowing realizing on their own that the playing field is toxic...the sad thing is that my parents were very, very successful in ruining all family relationships...the only sibling who is involved with them is GCsis who is waiting for the payout upon their death ($$$) The only true karma would be if GCsis dies first and they are then completely alone...
Quote from: 11JB68 on September 15, 2019, 09:30:57 PM
I've been nc with mostly ubpdm but also entire foo for about 16 years.
I don't envision this ever changing. I believe it's a permanent situation.
It's a long complicated story but I believe my h is uOCPD. At first I sort of felt I had to choose him or her, as they were both driving me crazy. But I've realized that even if I left h I still would not want a relationship with m.
That is a long time for NC 11JB68. So you are nc with your own family? Do you care to share what prompted you to go NC and also to keep it going all these years?
hugs to you!
Quote from: JustKathy on September 16, 2019, 03:20:53 PM
I fall into that category. I went NC with my NPDmother in 2005 but remained in contact with my enFather. Nmother was diagnosed with cancer some five years into NC at which time enFather "punished" me with an extremely cruel and public disinheritance. At that time I decided to go NC with him as well.
Nmother passed away five years ago, ten years into NC. My father is still alive but I'm now about nine years NC with him, with no plans of ever breaking that. He's in his late 80s, so I expect he'll also pass away while I'm NC. If by some miracle he decides to apologize for the 50 years of abuse I endured then I would consider reconnecting, but I give that one a zero percent chance of ever happening.
It's hard, but the abuse was harder, so I'm at peace with my decision.
Hi JustKathy - I see some parallels in our situations. I understand what you mean about nc being hard, but the abuse harder. Do you have other family members who you are in touch with? What was the main reason you went NC with your mother in 2005?
My parents divorced before I was an adult, so my enDad and uNmom haven't been together for a long time. They each went on to get into different relationships.... but no surprise, they both continued very similar ways of acting in those. Seeing that has helped me because it shows that these patterns are very deep in both of them. I've often wondered how I would have done thing if they had stayed married.
Quote from: overitall on September 17, 2019, 12:42:50 AM
..the extended years have allowed me to somewhat heal...but not enough to ever allow them access to my life :yeahthat:
Hi Overitall - thanks for chiming in on the thread. The sentence above that I quoted from your first post really resonates with me - I also have healed a lot during NC - its really taken years, but like you, I just cannot visualize my uNmom ever being back in my life.
I've visualized my uNmom giving me a genuine and heartfelt apology, and I realize that too much damage was done over too many years for an apology to mean anything. Kind of like the song by OneRepublic with the line "its too late to apologize."
My uBPDm would NEVER apologize....she doesn't think she has ever done anything wrong...she is absolutely clueless....my poor adult DD tried to have lunch with my parents a few months back (trying to see if anything is salvageable) ....she walked away furious and could not believe how much denial my parents have...I reminded her that there is a reason I am NC...I think she had to discover for herself what I have experienced....my DD wants NOTHING to do with my uBPDm now....actually DD telephoned her and told her that, straight out...I was proud of my DD....something I never did...I just went NC because I knew my mother would never "hear" anything I said anyway...my uNPDf is not as bad...(not to excuse him); he is clueless and is now old and stuck with uBPDm alone, lonely, and sick...Karma IS a bitch..... :yeahthat:
Quote from: JenniferSmith on September 19, 2019, 01:30:32 PM
Hi JustKathy - I see some parallels in our situations. I understand what you mean about nc being hard, but the abuse harder. Do you have other family members who you are in touch with? What was the main reason you went NC with your mother in 2005?
I went NC with my mother after a "final straw" moment. I was on the phone with her and we had a blowup over something. I finally reached a breaking point and for the first time in my life, stood up to her and called her out on her actions. She went infantile and started crying and screaming, then called out to my father to come and rescue her because I was being mean to her. It was so over-the-top that I couldn't take one more minute and just hung up on her. A few days later she mailed me a five-page screed playing the victim and going on about how she had been the perfect mother and all I had done was hurt her. I never talked to her again after that. I never sent a letter explaining my decision to go NC because the reasons should have been obvious to her. I actually feel fortunate that she forced my hand the way she did because I never had to agonize over the decision. It happened in the heat of the moment and there was no going back.
As for the rest of my family .... all gone. When Nmother was diagnosed with cancer she apparently launched a very effective smear campaign. Any family members who had been in contact with me vanished. I've tried to contact my sister but she replaced my brother as the GC and is now sole heir, so she's shut me out and is guarding enFather waiting for her money. Fine with me. They can have each other.
11 years NC with NF. Prior to that he discarded me for 4 years when I set out (escaped) on starting my life after graduate school. :applause:
During this time I have received mail, packages and email. Packages have been tossed but all mail and email has been carefully saved...should I ever need to present it as evidence of his lunacy.
NF for the most part is categorized as a raging, temper tantrum throwing N. He is not safe to be around and has no access to my children.
As a result of his bad behavior he has used anyone he possibly could to do his dirty work and force communication. He has been unsuccessful. He has also claimed to have started smear campaigns stating that anyone that hears his story takes pity on him and that my NC is wrong and that I am a horrible person. Ahh...if only these people could read all the mail and email that I have saved from NF...
Lately I have been bummed that my children have been deprived of having grandparents or extended family that is more or less normal. It seems kind of isolating and I feel left out in that respect. My mother passed away when I was young so I have felt parentless for a very long time. It's like I am all on my own, except for my dear siblings that are also NC with NF.
I have been mostly ok with being NC after going through the motions of grief and anger. But I'm going through those feelings again as I battle how I feel about DH and PDmil and their relationship as she ages. It's a huge trigger for me and some days I feel like I am gasping for air.
NF is in his late 80s and I will never undo the NC. And I am certain I've been cut from the will, too...likely to never see any of my Mother's things again either. That's ok. I have my husband and my children and most importantly, I have me.
I decided to dig up the old thread I created about long-term NC - just as a resource for anyone who reading/posting on this thread.
https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=34720.0
Quote from: PeanutButter on September 17, 2019, 07:30:57 AM
I am 15 years no contact with all of my foo.
My ubpdm smeared me/played victim to people she knew talked to me. I also recieved 'messages' this way from both of my sisters. "Tell peanutbutter her sister says............blahblah." I had to eventually tell the flying monkeys I was not interested in hearing about these convos and messages.
For years i saw my enf as all good. I now realize that he could have and should have protected me. He also could have contacted me, but didnt.
So I see both my parents as the same kind of disordered now.
Thanks all of you here sharing. Thanks jennifersmith for starting this topic! I feel less alone!
I can relate to a lot of details in your story PeanutButter - particularly about enF, and losing the entire FOO. There is definitely something "off" with the men who stay with these horrid women.
My enF and M divorced, but my F went on to find another dominating/controlling woman. She decided she wanted my enF all to herself and made every attempt to cut my sibs and I out of their life. My very passive, weak enF has managed to maintain a weak connection to us, but its like 5% of a real, actual relationship. I've realized his stripes have never changed... and once he actually admitted that he has made bad choices in his partners... but still too weak to ever do anything about it. As long as his needs are met, he's Ok with how the women treat his kids.
Anyway, thanks for posting... I look forward to hearing more from you!
From reading through the posts here... one theme I am seeing is that NC leading to a loss of the entire FOO.
In my case, there are no flying monkeys. No one on my mother's side (aunts/cousins/uncles) has ever reached out to me. I can only imagine what sort of things she has said about me all these years. My NC started before Facebook and social media... so I didn't have that to possibly maintain some sort of contact with any of them.
My siblings both turned on me a few years after NC. I know for one of them, my NC plays a role in why they've cut me off... but the other, I honestly don't know. I've contemplated reaching out to them, but so far I just haven't had the internal strength to do it.
I've realized that in my particular FOO, we never really bonded to each other in healthy ways to begin with. My siblings and I never had loving bonds as children, as neither parent had the skills to create those in our family. I tend to think of my FOO as a bunch of feral cats - we ran together as a pack when we were young, but as soon as we grew up, there was just no connection there and we just scattered to the wind, everyone licking their wounds in their own corner - due to a lot of bad feelings due to favoritism and abuse. Seeing it through this lens has helped minimize my anger at them. I mostly feel sad about it now more than anything else.
NC since late nov 1994 with my biological mother (uPD) and her parents (grandma is also some shade of uPD and grandpa was a molester). it's been so long i remember the month because it was after thanksgiving but can't remember if i was 22 or 23 tbh.
i stayed in contact with my uncle/ half brother (chew on that one for a second) for a until right around 2002 i was over at this place and the grandparents came over and tried to fog me and it was confirmed what i had suspected for some years- that my uncle was really my half brother...... shortly after that i became NC with uncle/ brother and his wife as well, between the anger about being lied to about my mother's other child and the fact that uncle/brother's wife said some pretty racist stuff about my career path i was just D O N E.
i don't know or care if the grandparents are dead. my biological mother would be in her 70s now.
she made some strange attempts to mail me twice at different apartments i lived at but not actual letters- it was like a post card from a gutter replacement company (like she put her name and my address down). right before i got married i ran my credit report and found that she had opened two credit accounts in my name that had been run up and paid off during this time too- so it all may have been related.
we had been NC on and off since i was a teenager. i was in foster care/ state care for several years after she was a person of interest in the fire that killed one of my sisters but got custody of me back my senior year of HS. before that and the state intervening, i hadn't really lived with her- she put me with her parents once when i was three, and then again when i was 7 when she left my father- at that time she also denied my father access and started a pretty serious case of PAS (i found my dad's family when i was 19 and met my dad again when i was 21)
i had 18 years of reasons why to never speak to her again. the worse day of my life in NC was still better than any good day i was in contact or having a relationship with her. it was the only way i could not lose my mind- between the molestation, what happened with my sister who died, all the court stuff, and then finding out my grandparents raised another kid of hers besides me i had just had ENOUGH and the sum of the lies was not worth my sanity to perpetuate.
Aw, redshoes, I can relate....I finally got up the courage to confront uBPDm and uNPDf about family molestation, they both "didn't think it was a big deal" I found out later that they were both aware of the molestation but didn't want to confront GF about it, so instead told me to "forget about it". I will NEVER forget the day....it was years ago but the memory in my brain is like it was yesterday...I know that on that day, everything changed...the way I felt about them; the lack of empathy; the lack of emotional security; the ongoing scapegoating, etc., etc.
I walked away that day realizing that life as I knew it would never be the same...I would not allow them to destroy me....sadly, I kept MC for many more years until I finally went NC...over the years they have tried just about anything and everything to get me to respond...the last time I responded (over 15 years ago) it was a disaster and everything was turned around on to me...
They are old, alone, and bitter....BUT, one thing is absolute....they know I am DONE....there will never be any type of relationship with them, period....If I do have to run into them, I am polite and keep on moving...I don't engage...they are simply people I used to know....the power that I reclaimed in my own life has allowed me to actually experience positivity and happiness in my life....I don't think they even know how to have that, if that makes sense...the family dynamic has been so sick and so toxic that I don't think they have the ability to change who they are. :no:
Quote from: JenniferSmith on September 21, 2019, 06:53:17 PM
No one on my mother's side (aunts/cousins/uncles) has ever reached out to me. My NC started before Facebook and social media...
I've realized that in my particular FOO, we never really bonded to each other in healthy ways to begin with. My siblings and I never had loving bonds as children, as neither parent had the skills to create those in our family. I tend to think of my FOO as a bunch of feral cats - we ran together as a pack when we were young, but as soon as we grew up, there was just no connection there and we just scattered to the wind, everyone licking their wounds in their own corner - due to a lot of bad feelings due to favoritism and abuse. Seeing it through this lens has helped minimize my anger at them. I mostly feel sad about it now more than anything else.
One of ubpdM's younger sisters called me a few years into my NC. I had always considered her my favorite Aunt. Imagine my surprise when I realized her purpose was to scold me that "call your mommy Peanut Butter. She's worried sick about you! Why havnt you called her? How can you do this to her"? I went MAD. But I just said "Im an adult I do not have to call anyone and I do not WANT to call my mom so I will not be calling her!" I never heard from 'my favorite aunt' again.
I get the feral cat colony comparison.
My siblings and I were also not bonded in a normal or loving way. My M was the point of connection between everybody. It was sorta like everyone connected to her was connected to each other only by being connected to her. Weird. She was trying to control us all. My enF was not 'allowed' to parent us. Even though my parents didnt divorce my M allianated us from our F while we all lived in the same household. It didnt work with me. I knew she was telling lies about him. But my two sisters fell for her lies and hated our F.
Im sorry for what you went through. It's sounds horrific.
Im glad we are here connecting.
No more silence! Bring it out into the light for everyone to witness. We are survivors!
Quote from: PeanutButter on September 22, 2019, 03:50:13 PM
My siblings and I were also not bonded in a normal or loving way. My M was the point of connection between everybody. It was sorta like everyone connected to her was connected to each other only by being connected to her. Weird. She was trying to control us all. My enF was not 'allowed' to parent us. Even though my parents didnt divorce my M allianated us from our F while we all lived in the same household.
This is my experience **exactly**. When uNM passed away and I went NC with uHPDsis (because she had taken on uNM's role in scapegoating me), enF actually said "uNM was the glue that held the family together". That was probably the most honest thing anyone in FOO ever said. Like many of you, I ended up going NC with the rest of them because I was VICTIMIZING poor uHPDsis and, of course, uNM would NEVER have wanted this...
Quote from: AnneH on September 22, 2019, 11:11:55 PM
Quote from: PeanutButter on September 22, 2019, 03:50:13 PM
My siblings and I were also not bonded in a normal or loving way. My M was the point of connection between everybody. It was sorta like everyone connected to her was connected to each other only by being connected to her. Weird. She was trying to control us all. My enF was not 'allowed' to parent us. Even though my parents didnt divorce my M allianated us from our F while we all lived in the same household.
This is my experience **exactly**. When uNM passed away and I went NC with uHPDsis (because she had taken on uNM's role in scapegoating me), enF actually said "uNM was the glue that held the family together". That was probably the most honest thing anyone in FOO ever said. Like many of you, I ended up going NC with the rest of them because I was VICTIMIZING poor uHPDsis and, of course, uNM would NEVER have wanted this...
AnneH, wow! Its amazing that I grew up in circumstances that were supposedly unique based on my ubpdM's trauma when she was growing up, (this was the narrative of why she couldn't be held accountable) only to realize that it was a personality disorder that caused it all and others experienced it too. My older sister was also uhpd and she was ubpdM's GC.
Quote from: PeanutButter on September 23, 2019, 02:11:26 AM
AnneH, wow! Its amazing that I grew up in circumstances that were supposedly unique based on my ubpdM's trauma when she was growing up, (this was the narrative of why she couldn't be held accountable) only to realize that it was a personality disorder that caused it all and others experienced it too. My older sister was also uhpd and she was ubpdM's GC.
Do we have the same M, PeanutButter? Mine was supposedly "traumatized" by...having been an only child and chalked just about EVERYTHING up to that! Now, I'm sure that many people wish they had had siblings and I don't want to invalidate that. However, according to NM, it totally BLIGHTED her life so she had to ENSURE that HER children "got along." Of course, she did this by triangulating and assigning GC status to uHPDsis, scapegoat status to me, and...not sure if there is a term for this but "poor thing" status to en bro as he was an average student and socially awkward in a family of PhDs who existed for public recognition. At the end of her life, uNM extracted a promise from me that I would write to uHPDsis...every.single.day, and call her every.single.week. (Result: NC for 8+ years).
Thank you for this thread, so many of you have had similar experiences as me.
I initially went 'very low' contact about 12 years ago. That same winter enF, possible pdF, slipped on some ice and broke his neck (he had surgery and made a good recovery). I tried my best in that moment to demonstrate the behavior I wished they had shown me when I had herniated a disc in my neck a couple year prior i.e. the time they showed up at my door to help out with a new house/reno my partner and I were involved in, enF's first words were 'you look like shit', he stuck around for about a day and then never followed up. The brutal contrast was that I had worked, often involuntarily, for his construction company from the ages of 14 - 17. Later I returned to that role at a transition point in my life when I needed a bit of work. As a child though, I had slaved during the times when other kids were enjoying holidays under his command but yet he wouldn't lift a finger when I needed some help i.e. my neck was buggered, my arm was partially numb and I had a huge job ahead of me.
Needless to say, my efforts were met with indifference and I was pushed aside -- both were still angry that I had been holding my ground and reducing contact.
Then, about a year or so latter possible unDP mom had a stroke, languished for a week or so in this hospital and passed away. By then I hadn't spoken to either of them for over a year, was very deep in work with a business I owned, and had actually been waiting for her to recover so I could perhaps give them suggestions for rehabilitation. I also wondered if showing up at the hospital might just stress her out and actually cause her death. In the end she became enraged when they were trying to transfer her from a wheel chair to her bed, her o2 levels crashed and she never recovered. I never thought she would actually die from secondary complications, but she did and I didn't go to see her.
I made the mistake of going to the service... it was one of the most damaging experiences of my entire life. Being pulled aside by an aunt, who M described as an abuser in her own childhood, to be regaled with stories of how M had been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric institution prior to my appearance in their world didn't help either. Just more trauma piled up on top of a very complicated grief.
I made a sincere effort to reconcile with F a few months after the funeral, he insisted on dredging up our previous conflict and to maintain the gas lighting about my childhood being normal and that I had been 'sooo cruel and hurtful' in the push back I had given them both. It was again all about him, his fragile ego and his chronic enabling of M. He also had an explosive temper, drank way too much when I was a young child and replaced this with chronic cannabis use later in life. One of the best things a therapist once said about him is that behaving disinterested and dismissive and talking down to me was not 'caused' by the cannabis, it was a preexisting state. There are lots of cannabis users in the world who are kind, gentle and caring people.
I have now been totally NC with F for nearly 8 years. I have also never, ever been contacted by a single member of the extended family since that event. I think he likely perpetuated a smear campaign in M's wake and received additional support for it given the recent loss of his wife.
It's interesting for me to write this out. Time and time again I start with the physical and verbal abuse at the hand of M as a young child and end with the perpetuation of these same activities by F as I got older. It may be because at around 10 I started to fight back when M would come after me and she came to realize I was actually stronger than her. It wasn't until I was 16 and F came after me and I finally fought back that he stopped repeatedly feigning that he was going to assault me and then occasionally crossing that line and actually trying to strike me.
Such a brutal lesson to teach a child, that the only time you can be safe around the people who are supposed to love you is when you can beat them in a fight...
I often reflect on being NC, the entire situation just makes me sad most of the time now although years ago I would also get really, really angry about it. Going NC finally gave me the time I needed to work through that rage and to progress through my process of grief and loss as it relates to those relationships.
Thanks to everyone who has shared your experiences with long-term NC. There are some themes that seem to be similar, and then in other ways, our stories are different. The one commonality is we've all decided we needed to distance ourselves from these people for years or decades. I am sorry for all of us who felt we needed to make this choice. As we know... it is not an easy, or simple decision, and in my experience, it takes a lot of inner strength.
I am going to list some questions that come to mind when I think about long-term NC. Feel free to answer any or all of them.. or to post other thoughts, stories etc.
1. What are the personal benefits you have experienced by choosing long-term NC?
2. What is the hardest part of long-term NC, for you?
3. Have you told the person(s) you are NC with why you went NC? If so, what came of that?
4. How have you been affected by a "smear campaign" as a result of your NC?
5. How much does childhood abuse (physical/sexual/emotional) factor into your decision to go NC?
6. Did you plan your NC in advance, or was it an impulsive decision, or some combination of the two?
7. How do you think your life would be different, now, if you had NOT gone NC?
8. What are the main reasons you have maintained NC for so many years?
That's probably enough for now. I'll come back to answer some myself.
i'm gonna bold your questions jennifer- thanks for starting a very thought provoking discussion
1. What are the personal benefits you have experienced by choosing long-term NC?
when i finally went full NC i was working three jobs trying to pay rent to my grandparents as well as community college tuition. pretty much everyone on my mother's side was dead set against me going to college (they thought i should be satisfied with my bank job and then get married and stay home, making babies for jesus). NC allowed me to fully focus on what the goals and dreams i had for myself vs what the family expectations of me were. i found out i had other siblings when i was 14, started trying to re-establish connections with my dad's family at 19 (i had not seen my dad but one time and talked to him one additional time on the phone since i was 7 because of PAS) which finally happened when i met my dad again when i was 21- my mother and her parents were dead set against me having any sort of relationship so being fully NC made it so i could get to know the other part of my family.
2. What is the hardest part of long-term NC, for you?
realizing that i've never really had a mother, even when she was present in my life. not having a mom when i really needed one- finding out about the facts of life from staff in the home and women's issues from cosmo....
3. Have you told the person(s) you are NC with why you went NC? If so, what came of that?
the decision was made for me. when i told my grandparents i had found a place of my own they told me 'don't come back'. i asked for help one time after that and the SOLD ME USED TIRES AT A DISCOUNT - mind you this was stuff from the hoard that were old tires from a car they no longer owned.... i told my mother i never wanted to speak to her again for the first time when i was in HS so for her and i, it was a continuation of that.
4. How have you been affected by a "smear campaign" as a result of your NC?
my mother prolly still plays the sympathy card. some of it got back to me through my half brother, but i also no longer participate in a relationship with him either since his wife got super racist about my choice of jobs.
5. How much does childhood abuse (physical/sexual/emotional) factor into your decision to go NC?
a lot. my grandfather molested me but he was also the only person in that horrible home that paid ANY attention to me. most of it was very covert and i had repressed it for years. i just knew as i got older i did not want to be alone with him anymore. what's sad is that it happened to my mother too and my older half brother and my mother's younger brother took great pains to protect their kids from my grandfather, but no one ever tried to protect me....
6. Did you plan your NC in advance, or was it an impulsive decision, or some combination of the two?
i started saving to move out on my own as soon as my granparents said i could come back to live with them ( i needed surgery for a long problematic knee thing- the deal was i was allowed to stay as long as i paid rent and kept their house rules and the commandments... the NC came more about as a response to how i was treated after i met my stepmother and sisters for the first time the summer between 21-22.
7. How do you think your life would be different, now, if you had NOT gone NC?
i think i would have been still single and horribly enmeshed with my mother.
8. What are the main reasons you have maintained NC for so many years?
thee fold really-because what happened with the CSA was never acknowledged (i was called a liar basically and told i made it up for attention when i tried to tell someone as a child), as well as being denied the opportunity to know my sisters/stepmom, and then the fact that my mother was a person of interest in the death of one of my dad's kids and nothing ever came out of the investigation. i went to bed for years after that afraid she would try to kill me next for an insurance policy and i still have nightmares that i am fighting against her for my life.
my mother is a liar and a crook and i want nothing to do with her, not then, not now, not ever.
I'll take a shot at the questions too:
1. What are the personal benefits you have experienced by choosing long-term NC?
Freedom from the constant emotional torment that lasted well into my 40s. Being able to live life on my own terms, without feeling obligated to show up for family gatherings where I was mistreated and felt miserable. Being relieved of any obligation to provide eldercare for an aging child abuser. Knowing that I'm now the one in control and that they're powerless to cause further emotional damage.
2. What is the hardest part of long-term NC, for you?
Feelings of guilt. Losing my entire family and dealing with the hurt that comes from knowing they all believed Nmother's smear campaign and sided with her. Also, trying to explain it to people and not having my story believed, or in some cases actually being judged for it.
3. Have you told the person(s) you are NC with why you went NC? If so, what came of that?
No. They know what they did to me. My reasons for walking away should have been obvious to them.
4. How have you been affected by a "smear campaign" as a result of your NC?
I've lost every member of my family. I never had a relationship with my brother, but I was fairly close to my sister and she's now ceased contact with me. I've also lost all contact with Aunts, Uncles, and cousins. They're all gone. I feel like an orphan.
5. How much does childhood abuse (physical/sexual/emotional) factor into your decision to go NC?
It was a HUGE factor and one of the reasons I'll never resume contact. I've been haunted by the childhood abuse my entire adult life. I suffer severe anxiety, depression, and PTSD from that childhood trauma.
6. Did you plan your NC in advance, or was it an impulsive decision, or some combination of the two?
It was an impulsive decision. My Nmother put me in a position where I felt I had no choice. It was very spontaneous. I hung up the phone while she was screaming at me and that was the end.
7. How do you think your life would be different, now, if you had NOT gone NC?
I think I'd still feel obligated to show up for holiday gatherings and pretend that everything is okay, play the "perfect family" game. I'd still be enmeshed in their lives and would be miserable.
8. What are the main reasons you have maintained NC for so many years?
Neither of my parents showed any remorse and refused to take responsibility for their actions. My Nmother blamed me and vilified me until the moment she died. My surviving enFather knows what he's done to me but chooses to try and guilt me over NC rather than apologizing for the abuse. Like my mother before him, he will go to his grave without ever trying to make things right or ever admitting any wrongdoing. I refuse to be blamed for their mistreatment of me. It's done, it's over, they are permanently GONE from my life.
1. What are the personal benefits you have experienced by choosing long-term NC?
I am able to experience happiness. Everything isn't looked at negatively. Life is alive, happy, free. Not being criticized, shamed, and guilted for wanting to just experience life and all of its beauty. Feeling free to be me without judgment.
2. What is the hardest part of long-term NC, for you?
The loss of my entire FOO; apparently when I went NC with uBPDm and uNPDf, I lost all cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. No one reached out to me so I can only imagine the stories that were circulated. I miss cousins I grew up with, but I'm sure that they have been completely poisoned against me.
3. Have you told the person(s) you are NC with why you went NC? If so, what came of that?
No, I didn't tell them...I did, however, return a letter with "return to sender, refused by addressee" so they knew I didn't want any contact...they never reached out to ask why, just accepted it and moved on..
4. How have you been affected by a "smear campaign" as a result of your NC?
I lost my relationship with all nieces; they don't know me and they never will. They have been fed a story about how evil I am and I cannot change that....I'm sure other people in my town have been told "stories" but I try not to go there....
5. How much does childhood abuse (physical/sexual/emotional) factor into your decision to go NC?
The abuse was probably the number reason for NC. Both of my parents were aware of the sexual abuse in the family and made zero attempt to protect me. They were more concerned with not upsetting my GF (abuser) than worrying about what it did to me.
6. Did you plan your NC in advance, or was it an impulsive decision, or some combination of the two?
For me, it was a combination of the two. For a long time, (10+ years) I knew something was very wrong with my family, yet I bought into the traditional family holiday get togethers and birthdays, etc. As time went by, I realized that after every single interaction I came home feeling either sad, depressed, or angry...it just got to the point that it wasn't worth it anymore.
7. How do you think your life would be different, now, if you had NOT gone NC?
I think I would either be an alcoholic, drug addict, or very, very suicidal. Seriously, I'm not kidding, it was that bad.
8. What are the main reasons you have maintained NC for so many years?
Both of my parents have ZERO ability to understand their actions; in their minds, they've done nothing wrong and somehow I am at fault, because you know, you need to stick with your family. I have learned that MY family is more toxic than 90% of the strangers you might meet on the street.
When I had children it was as if I had drawn a line in the sand; I did not want me kids to have to relive the trauma that I experienced.
I need to maintain NC in order to protect myself. If I ever had contact with either parent, I know it would only be a matter of time before I would become the "punching bag" again...
1. What are the personal benefits you have experienced by choosing long-term NC?
The most important was stopping the toxic stress of chronic, life long conflict. Without doing this there would have been no path forward for my nervous system and sense of self (ego integrity?) to recover.
2. What is the hardest part of long-term NC, for you?
Coming to terms with the reality that as an adopted person who lost his mother and family at about 1 years old that I am indeed still an orphan. There are many successful orphans in the world, and I believe myself to be one of them; however, the sadness of accepting this status after a childhood of being told it wasn't true has been profound.
3. Have you told the person(s) you are NC with why you went NC? If so, what came of that?
Yes, all that came of it was more denial and blame. I've never been one to just 'walk away' from anything though, scrappy by nature (and apparently nurture). If you raise someone to fight, don't expect them to back down later in life.
4. How have you been affected by a "smear campaign" as a result of your NC?
For sure, I've been contacted by naive cousins trying to tell me there are 'two truths' and other such nonsense. when it comes to child abuse there is only one truth.
5. How much does childhood abuse (physical/sexual/emotional) factor into your decision to go NC?
This is the core. I may very well have carried on with them if I didn't encounter an absolute, and to be honest unexpected, wall of denial during my mid 30's. In my mind, it was something to be talked about and worked through. For them, it was either 100% 'forgive and forget' or a stonewall of denial that it ever happened. I needed to understand why, to know they understood I was hurt, to hear them calmly and rationally take ownership. Looking back, I actually calmly assumed this would be the outcome until I broke my nose on the stone of their walls.
6. Did you plan your NC in advance, or was it an impulsive decision, or some combination of the two?
No, I had been thinking about it for years. I had also been talking to those close to me about changing my name for equally as long.
7. How do you think your life would be different, now, if you had NOT gone NC?
The chronic stress of the situation was eating me up. My F and M were also ambivilent at best, discouraging most times, about me pursuing higher education. In retrospect, I think this was because they needed me to be incapable, non-functional, as an adult to justify their behavior to me. After all, if I turned out to be a useless twat all on my own they could blame it on my genetics. I embarked on a phd shortly after making the decision to go fully NC.
8. What are the main reasons you have maintained NC for so many years?
Over time it required less and less effort. We're not NC anymore, we're just done. The relationships are over and I accept that they never were really real to begin with as everything was based on lies and inter-generational transmission of unresolved trauma.
I've been NC/VVLC with Dad for 30 years. Have had a couple of attempts at recovering....but there is nothing there to recover.
Same with Mom for 3 years.
1. What are the personal benefits you have experienced by choosing long-term NC?
-Much lower blood pressure and a whole lot more "mindspace" for DH and DDs
-Much more free time as no time is spent composing the "perfect email" to pacify them over some imagined slight
-Financial benefits as the expectations would be to fly overseas at LEAST 2x / year with 2 small children.
-NOT having DDs see me trying to pacify people I had not wronged, over and over and over again to no end.
2. What is the hardest part of long-term NC, for you?
-Social awkwardness, esp. when I meet people from my country of origin. They ALWAYS ask how many times I go back per year and if I don't miss FOO TERRIBLY.
3. Have you told the person(s) you are NC with why you went NC? If so, what came of that?
When I cut short my final trip to see them, I did tell enF that I was *not* exposing DD to uHPD sis and that uHPD sis just wanted to make a scene. That was "outrageous" in his words. So I didn't bother to explain anything further to anyone else.
4. How have you been affected by a "smear campaign" as a result of your NC?
Undoubtedly. Bring it on.
5. How much does childhood abuse (physical/sexual/emotional) factor into your decision to go NC?
Due to the constant emotional abuse and scapegoating, I feel that I never had a genuine relationship with FOO to begin with and I was just there to serve as their punching bag. I feel that, with a non-PD mom, enF would have been a great dad; unfortunately he ALWAYS, ALWAYS put her first and took her side, whatever she did.
6. Did you plan your NC in advance, or was it an impulsive decision, or some combination of the two?
Once I had my first child there was absolutely *no* way in my mind that I would EVER expose her to that kind of behavior or teach her that there was ever any reason to "take it." I did try to introduce her to en F and en bro but it was made abundantly clear that enF only saw her as an "opportunity" to rope me back into the "family."
7. How do you think your life would be different, now, if you had NOT gone NC?
I can't even imagine it. Having children and contact with FOO are mutually exclusive in my case.
8. What are the main reasons you have maintained NC for so many years?
See above. They don't even know we have had a second child.
Finally getting back to this thread - thanks to everyone who chose to answer the questions! That was a nice surprise! I actually hadn't expected folks to answer all of them.... but honestly, it was pretty interesting to read each person's answers. Not a scientific study of long-term NC or anything, but definitely valuable to see the common aspects of our experiences.
One thing that jumped out at me was that everyone, aside from one person, reported that childhood abuse played/plays a big role in the decision to remain NC long-term. That is also true for me. In my personal observation, many of the threads on this forum are focused on the current struggles that people are having with their family members. I don't tend to see as many threads about childhood abuse. Maybe there are other forums that are more devoted to that topic. But based on this thread, it does appear that childhood abuse can have lingering effects in our relationships with parents.. even into adulthood.
It also seems that we are a rather small percentage of the people who come to this forum (at least those of us who are posting about it- there may be more people reading who are long-term NC who for whatever reason aren't posting about it).
I guess I will add one more question -
For those who are long-term NC, what brings you to this forum? What aspects of NC are you currently struggling with?
For myself, I will say that reading on this forum provides validation, knowing that I am not alone with my experience of having an unhealthy family. I am currently struggling with wanting to open the doors to my estranged siblings, but not being sure I am ready for whatever could come from that.
Quote from: JenniferSmith on October 10, 2019, 01:14:44 PM
I guess I will add one more question -
For those who are long-term NC, what brings you to this forum? What aspects of NC are you currently struggling with?
I stop by this forum on a regular basis for several reasons. I am forever grateful to this forum and to all of its users for providing an explanation of what was "wrong" with my FOO (I had turned to the Internet to search for their behaviors and ended up on this forum: bingo!) and a "toolbox" for how to deal with them. I had never heard of PDs and it had never occurred to me before I came here that I had a "right" to go NC if that was the only way to remove myself from that type of dynamic. So I want to give back by contributing my experience and ideas where they may be useful.
It is an ongoing concern that FOO may show up on my doorstep even though I live in another country (I managed to thwart the one attempt I know of by contacting the police) and it is very helpful to see how others have dealt with actual uninvited "visitors."
Finally, I have significant difficulty recalling what FOO actually "did" to make me take such a drastic step as very long-term NC (I actually blank it out, which was a coping mechanism I developed to "forgive" uNM for her outbursts) so it is helpful, in order to remember why I am where I am, to reread both my old posts and those of others who have dealt with similar circumstances.
Quote from: JenniferSmith on October 10, 2019, 01:14:44 PM
For those who are long-term NC, what brings you to this forum? What aspects of NC are you currently struggling with?
For myself, I will say that reading on this forum provides validation, knowing that I am not alone with my experience of having an unhealthy family.
Validation is also my primary reason for being here. There was no Internet when I was younger so I suffered for many years with no one to talk to. I did see several therapists but most didn't have answers. In some cases, they didn't even believe the stories I told about my mother. I did have one therapist who recommended some books, but it really wasn't enough.
When the Internet came along I found another online forum that dealt with NPD. For the first time I heard people say, "My mother did the same thing." I really can't express in words how I felt when I finally discovered I wasn't alone and wasn't crazy. These forums have saved my life (probably quite literally). Validation is everything.
As for the aspects of NC that I'm left struggling with, it's probably the loss of my entire family. I had hoped when Nmother died that I'd be able to reconnect with my siblings, aunts, uncles, cousins. Instead, the opposite happened. They've all washed their hands of me and I don't expect that to change. I want them to know the truth, but they never will. I guess I want some kind of closure. I want my enFather to know how much his actions harmed me, but trying to communicate that to him would be a huge exercise in frustration, so I have to learn to live with the knowledge that I'm essentially an orphan.
Quote from: AnneH on October 10, 2019, 04:34:09 PM
Finally, I have significant difficulty recalling what FOO actually "did" to make me take such a drastic step as very long-term NC (I actually blank it out, which was a coping mechanism I developed to "forgive" uNM for her outbursts) so it is helpful, in order to remember why I am where I am, to reread both my old posts and those of others who have dealt with similar circumstances.
This resonates for me, but in sort of the opposite direction. Since my early childhood I always kept track of the shitty things that happened to me in my FOO. Nobody ever listened to me and I think it occurred to me really early on that I was the only witness. A therapist once said I had become my own "enlightened witness" in the absence of an adult to take that role. While an interesting testament to my resiliency, it was also sad I needed to do this.
I ended up with a long list and keeping the information in my memory and revisiting it in an ongoing effort to ensure it was accurate and I didn't forget took up an enormous amount of energy. It was like I was always preparing to testify in court... Now that I'm NC, I finally find myself forgetting some of those events. The memories can be triggered, but they get harder and harder to retrieve -- I believe this is a good thing and part of my healing process.
Quote from: JenniferSmith on October 10, 2019, 01:14:44 PM
One thing that jumped out at me was that everyone, aside from one person, reported that childhood abuse played/plays a big role in the decision to remain NC long-term.
I think that any trauma that occurs in childhood is much harder (if not impossible) to recover from. When we're adults, narc behavior is maddening but something we can walk away from. Being only ten years old and having no one believe us or help us, that causes permanent damage.
Having said that, I could probably forgive my enFather if he would just own up to what he did. One of the hardest parts for me has been his denial all these years. He's going to go to his grave without any acknowledgement of his role in my abuse, and certainly no apology. I'll always be left wondering just how cognizant he was of the amount of emotional damage he was inflicting on his daughter. I'll never know if he felt any remorse. I'll just never know and that is
hard.
For me also, it's the validation...as a child no one cared, no one listened...I was desperate for some sort of validation that I was not crazy....the extent of abuse in my family is staggering...it's not only the sexual, physical abuse, but the ongoing, never-ending relentless put downs, criticisms, shaming, guilting, etc.
When I married my husband I told him that my family was dysfunctional...he thought, well, okay, every family has some kind of dysfunction...within a short time he told me that he had never experienced a family with such a toxic level of dysfunction...he wonders everyday how I made it out okay... :stars:
Reading the stories of others confirms what I have always suspected; I am not alone. It is heartbreaking, but at the same time it gives me some relief, if that makes sense...
Today I came across this article about estrangement and thought I would share it on this thread - its not super deep, but I thought it had some good points.
https://www.nextavenue.org/myths-about-estrangement/
This is another article that I also felt made some good points:
https://www.standalone.org.uk/guides/adultchildren/
1. What are the personal benefits you have experienced by choosing long-term NC?
Have to reset my NC counter AGAIN, but when I was NC for about...maybe 2 years (not super long) it felt relieving. Now I see both parents at least once or twice a year, at least it's not frequent.
2. What is the hardest part of long-term NC, for you?
The hardest part is the "domino" effect. If I cut off contact with one person..It's possible I may have to cut contact with others to cut off PD supply. Currently contemplating about cutting off brothers..
3. Have you told the person(s) you are NC with why you went NC? If so, what came of that?
No, I told the people who are in contact with said people that I don't want to be in contact with PDs.
4. How have you been affected by a "smear campaign" as a result of your NC?
Not sure what my mother said, but my maternal family members have interrogated me asking "Why don't you visit your mother and give her money?" It used to be difficult to communicate with them due to culture/language barrier, but now my second language is better now(learnt it young, but our school did not like us speaking the language, ended up taking college classes to get better). However, I don't feel the need to explain anything to them---they won't agree based on family being big in that particular culture and heavily religious.
5. How much does childhood abuse (physical/sexual/emotional) factor into your decision to go NC?
Well...I was tired of being hurt both emotionally and physically as well as scared(when I was younger). I knew no matter what I tried, I wouldn't be able to win my parents validation so I decided to worry about me and take care of myself(and now take care of my new family!)
6. Did you plan your NC in advance, or was it an impulsive decision, or some combination of the two?
Yes, ever since I was a young teen. I wanted to get out of the house. I moved out since 18 and haven't looked back since.
7. How do you think your life would be different, now, if you had NOT gone NC?
This...Is going to sound horrible but I used to wish I would never wake up again everyday when I was young. I felt trapped, sad, angry, and scared. So...I'll leave it at that.
8. What are the main reasons you have maintained NC for so many years?
To finally live MY life and not be somebody's little punching bag. It feels nice, it's relieving.