Do any of you have trouble with feelings of belonging??

lillylover · April 06, 2023, 12:15:08 PM

I have for almost as long as I can remember had trouble feeling like I belong.

I never belonged in my family (NPD's). I was the scapegoat in a very unhealthy family situation. In that family I felt like it was best to try and make myself invisible. Maybe if I was invisible it would please them.
Yet that didn't stop the emotional battering. Nor did it stop my GC Bully sister from physically injuring me because she could as Abuser by Proxy for my father. Although he was master in chief in a different department with me. Making me feel worthless. Constant put downs. Undermining my emotional I.Q. etc. (that is a whole other story/ thread)

Nonetheless in that family I felt as if didn't I matter one bit. My sense of self, my instincts were extinguished at a young age. It took eons for me to understand what I needed to understand about that part of my life to try to undo some of the damage.

Yet I still have some issues. One is about belonging.

Here is one example that just popped into my head from when I was in 7th grade.

I was walking with the same two girls every day to school. They chatted on with each other as we walked. It was as if I wasn't therewith them They were only interested in what they had to say to one another. I didn't know any better about this kind of thing and what I deserved so I kept on walking with them. One cold morning I slipped on some ice and fell- my stuff scattered everywhere and I hurt my knee. They didn't even notice that I fell and that I was NO LONGER walking with them. They just kept walking on chatting to each other merrily. Finally I yelled "HEY!" They must have come back but I don't remember the rest.

I think that story might have some relationship to the story I want to tell now. Maybe not. Perhaps you can help me with that.

So I am in with a small group of fiction writers. I have done this before writing with others but those were like in 6 week workshops/ classes. Maybe 20 people in these groups. In these situations I never felt left out. I felt like I had a right to be there. I never felt like I didn't belong. We'd come in and take our seats and the instructor would take over.

But now in this family-sized group I am in now (there are 6 of us) all the others are kind to each other. They are not actually unkind to me (except for one is a major suck up to the other 4 and this works for her). All the members know each other from other groups they are/ were in all in... like qi gong, or discussions about plays, scene study classes , meditation, etc.

They admire each other and seem to get fed off each for the others' academic achievements, social status, what they did do / or do now for living, their economic status, what elitist books they read, the volunteer work they do wc (the volunteer work) I suspect is for status more than helping other but not sure but they sure pat each other on the back a lot for this or pat on their own backs. They also talk about how successful their kids are, blah blah.

Often when one of them is talking about something they make eye contact with the others but not me. They talk to each other as if I'm not there. So that invisibility thing comes back.
That said one of the other 5 women is very kind in many ways and she goes out of her way to make eye contact with me. She is very perceptive and I think she noticed the non-eye contact with me stuff.
But she is also one of them.

I feel unsure if I am projecting my own insecurities from growing up yet I do feel like I don't belong.

So yes they see each other on the outside of this group and are tight knit. How I got into this group was from one of the workshops I took. I don't know why they they asked me to join them. Nonethelss I joined because I like to write. But I also feel uncomfortable and like an outsider.

Something is keeping me from quitting that group. Not sure what.

Maybe because it's not just in this group but in other situations I feel like I don't belong. I could name other circumstances.

That said I do have some friends from way back and there are 6 of us and I feel when I with them I am embraced. We all talk about how we feel like family ....just love of being together. I know how that feels. It feels good. It feels right. Also if perchance a 7th one joined us by happenstance we would never make eye contact with only just the 6 of us and not the 7th. Never.

Now and then I do meet one on one with a totally diff friend over coffee and that works fine. But those kinds of friends I could count on 1 hand.

Any thoughts? Anyone else relate?

Thank you.

This just came to me as well. Maybe I am trying to practice belonging? I wish I could just go to write and get feedback and not be so sensitive to the personalities of the others. Being in the group makes me work my hardest ever at writing.

Jolie40 · April 06, 2023, 01:47:22 PM

Quote from: lillylover on April 06, 2023, 12:15:08 PM
So I am in with a small group of fiction writers. I have done this before writing with others but those were like in 6 week workshops/ classes. Maybe 20 people in these groups. In these situations I never felt left out. I felt like I had a right to be there. I never felt like I didn't belong. We'd come in and take our seats and the instructor would take over.

throughout my life, I've mostly only had one good friend at a time
people move or I move & then it takes time to establish a new friendship

my older neighbor/friend passed on in 2015 & I haven't found a new friend since!

like you, I'm in 3 writing groups which each meet once/month
even though I'm an introvert, I feel like I've found my people!
I feel really comfortable in each group & like reading my stories out loud to the groups

I look forward to each writing group
writers are a great group of people!

notrightinthehead · April 06, 2023, 04:35:24 PM

I can relate. This is how I feel inside. I don't belong. Yet, on the outside that's not how others see me. I know that from the feedback I get sometimes. Doesn't change how I feel though.
As for your situation, they invited you into their group. They must have thought you belong then. The fact that they cannot look you into the eye seems strange to me. Do you interact and they just ignore you? Or do they talk to you and not look at you? Would you feel comfortable to approach this subject?
I firmly believe that because we have been damaged in childhood, sometimes we don't know how to behave "normally ". And people pick up on that and also behave oddly. And sometimes we tolerate unacceptable behavior because we don't recognize it as such.
So it could be you, it could be them, it could be both. When I am in this position, I put my head down and focus on the task and what is the greatest benefit for me. I try to be as open and authentic as I can possibly be. And I try to learn as much as I can from the situation.

lillylover · April 07, 2023, 09:31:49 AM

Jolie40

I'm glad you are so comfortable with these small groups. What a gift!
I have been more comfortable with a larger group like a workshop (12-20 members) with an instructor/ leader. But in this intimate group I feel like an outsider.

lillylover · April 07, 2023, 10:14:49 AM

Quote from: notrightinthehead on April 06, 2023, 04:35:24 PM
I can relate. This is how I feel inside. I don't belong. Yet, on the outside that's not how others see me. I know that from the feedback I get sometimes. Doesn't change how I feel though.
As for your situation, they invited you into their group. They must have thought you belong then. The fact that they cannot look you into the eye seems strange to me. Do you interact and they just ignore you? Or do they talk to you and not look at you? Would you feel comfortable to approach this subject?
I firmly believe that because we have been damaged in childhood, sometimes we don't know how to behave "normally ". And people pick up on that and also behave oddly. And sometimes we tolerate unacceptable behavior because we don't recognize it as such.
So it could be you, it could be them, it could be both. When I am in this position, I put my head down and focus on the task and what is the greatest benefit for me. I try to be as open and authentic as I can possibly be. And I try to learn as much as I can from the situation.

notrightinthehead,

True I was invited into the group. I was invited by the kind one who makes eye contact with me always.

The others most of the time don't make eye contact with me unless they are reviewing what I have read out loud. Or if I am commenting on another's writing then there is eye contact. I only give positive feedback to others on what stands out. Some of the writing by the others is outstanding. I never do negative feedback.

Just to mention once again those long time really good friends I mentioned in my first post... I use them as my measure. They always make me feel that I belong. They love me. They are the family I never had. We all say how much we love each other. I's nothing that I have ever known.

In the writing group, you are right that it seems strange about the non-eye contact from the 4 in the group. But it does happen. It stands out to me because I grew up with that. They are friends with each other - the non-eye contact ones. I guess I wanted to feel like a friend besides being in the writing group. That is not going to happen.

The writing group people are so highly educated and I think they are elitists. The kind one who makes me feel as if I belong is highly educated too and is well liked by so many -t she makes me feel like I am worthy of being among them.

It's either quit the group or stay. I don't really want to quit. I want the behavior of others to improve. Haha.

Wishful thinking.

Maybe for now I think what I may do is focus on my writing more. When I write something that comes out really good I will get good feedback from the non-eye contact members except for ONE of them.

I am so confused. I hope my post is not all over the place.
BTW it's when we are off subject that is when the non-eye contact with me takes place. I want to yell out - HEY STOP IGNORING ME.

What you said about how we can act abnormally. That is brilliant. I catch myself doing that in this writing group. I can't put it into words what I mean. Except to say that I know I do not feel like ME. Whoever ME is. lol. Maybe I am trying too hard to fit in. I can't explain it very well.

I am not rude or anything in the writing group. Even though I think it's rude to not make eye-contact with me. I just sit back and take it. Like you said we tolerate stuff.
Thank you.

lillylover · April 07, 2023, 11:50:03 AM

Just one more thing. So sorry

I don't mean to imply that the writing group should act like the long time friends who make me feel loved.

I reread my post and it could be seen this way that this is what I am saying. Duh me.

Just to say it more concisely I have trouble feeling like I belong in general and that came from growing up as I did so I believe.

It just so happens that I have a situation (writing group) where I feel excluded by lack of eye contact when there is off topic gabbing. Just like when I grew up. Invisible.

I wonder if somehow I was brought up to feel INCLUDED in my FOO if I would even notice the lack of eye contact. Yes. It's quite possible that I might be projecting my own issues in the w. group. But I know that it's not right for this behavior to be ongoing.

So it's both.
1. Trouble feeling as I belong (in general)
2. A case where I see/ feel it happening- in the w. group there is exclusion which I grew up with and am familiar with.

Catothecat · April 08, 2023, 11:08:43 AM

I don't know that you're projecting in this instance, lillylover. Seems to me they are more interested in socializing and reinforcing one another's specialness than in writing. I suspect anyone in your situation would perceive the same feeling of being an outsider, although those with a different personality type would deal with it differently and either not let their feelings get in the way or confront the others over their behavior in some way. But... you don't have that type of personality (obviously!) so have to address the situation as best suits you.

The reason I doubt you're projecting is because I've been in such groups and I've also been in groups where I felt everyone was participating at an equal level. I remember once in an office where I worked one of my co-workers was a huge narc. One day she came to me and said that the boss was giving out tickets to some event but I wasn't to say anything to anyone else because the tickets were only for "certain people." There were plenty of tickets to go around and apparently the boss left it up to her to distribute them, so this was how she approached it. Wasn't about the event or the wishes of the boss, it was about what she wanted to do and who she wanted to include. There was no ambiguity about what she was doing. This is how she went through life and this is how people like her go through life. Sometimes if you turn the situation around and realize that when people aren't exactly including you in their group (while not exactly excluding you either, at least not overtly) it's because they need the security of an existing, reinforcing dynamic. Being an outsider, you upset the dynamic. In that case the issue isn't with you but with them and their insecurities.

You know what you want and you know what to expect. You know how group work is supposed to function. This doesn't sound like you not understanding the "program" but rather them. But because of your life experiences and personality, your default is to immediately look at yourself as the source of the issue.

I guess the measure of whether or not to stay is the writing that results. If it pushes you towards higher goals and better writing, then they're helping you whether or not they know or appreciate it. If your writing suffers, however, it might be best to take a step back and look elsewhere.

lillylover · April 10, 2023, 08:38:16 AM

Thank you Catothecat

Seems to me they are more interested in socializing and reinforcing one another's specialness than in writing.

Socializing and particularly reinforcing one another's specialness seems of huge importance. As for it being more important than the writing - I would say however that they do put their best writing forward. Maybe that part is equal. At least 3 of them are superb writers.

I guess the measure of whether or not to stay is the writing that results. If it pushes you towards higher goals and better writing, then they're helping you whether or not they know or appreciate it.

For a good while I felt intimidated to write once in the group. I had a major block for a good while before even joining the group. So joining this writing group got me writing again. I feel that my writing has been improving. The fact that 3 of them are superb writers helps my writing. T he "leader" of the group the one who is always kind to me (but still one of them)- she gives me good feedback. Honest but in a kind way.

it's because they need the security of an existing, reinforcing dynamic.

Now that you mention it I can see this from how my FOO some extended family has operated. That said because this writing group .....the members....(all but me) have accomplished so much in their lives in so many ways I have felt inadequate. Yet, thinking about it I can see how this group's behavior displays the dynamic you describe using their accomplishments and such as their platform.

because of your life experiences and personality, your default is to immediately look at yourself as the source of the issue.

That makes sense. I have been looking at their behavior from my "child's" point of view. Or actually FEELING it from my inner child's injuries. Looking at ME only as the source of any issue has been one of my problems. I have made some strides in this but still have a ways to go.

And what you say here"
I suspect anyone in your situation would perceive the same feeling of being an outsider,

It feels like a conundrum because you are correct here:

although those with a different personality type would deal with it differently and either not let their feelings get in the way or confront the others over their behavior in some way. But... you don't have that type of personality (obviously!) so have to address the situation as best suits you.

I need to figure out what suits me. That is the tough part. I have been alone for a good while except for so few friends that I only see now and then. I want to belong and I want to be challenged to write better. A small voice in me says stay in this group and just pay attention to the writing. Yes a louder voice says not so easy to just flip a switch so as to compartmentalize when the group I belong to is not healthy.

At least I know that. It is believable to me, it is conceivable that it could be "them" and not me. That is a start

Jolie40 · April 10, 2023, 01:32:34 PM

Quote from: lillylover on April 07, 2023, 09:31:49 AM
But in this intimate group I feel like an outsider.

it seems like they might socialize too much in the group? maybe they need to appoint a leader for the group to keep it focused on writing?

in the writing groups I'm in, the leader speaks
then we write & take turns sharing

there is no socializing as we each take our turns to read

lillylover · April 10, 2023, 04:09:55 PM

Jolie40,
Well they socialize as we are gathering at the beginning and then there will be conversation about what has just been read. And there is talking as we are gathering up to leave and walking toward our cars.
We are fairly organized at least so that everyone gets to read what we brought.

We do have a leader per se- the very kind one - who goes out of her way to make eye contact with me. She keeps us on track for the most part during the reading "window" so that we all read. There is discussion in between each reading about what has been read. Sometimes goes off track but the "leader" will then name the next person to read. .

I am in awe of you being able to write in the spot. That to me is a gift. That said, I do like being able to write at home as we do in our group- I need to ponder... lol.
Lily L.

WhereImAt · April 11, 2023, 01:02:13 AM

Hey Lillylover,

Yes, I have trouble connecting to people, because it's hard to be shallow, and a lot of people want that. I think it's just best to realize the limitations of each group/people you are working with. Like, with this group you speak of, sounds like you could work on your writing skills, and discuss those things, but you're not going to be able to connect on a deep level to them, because they sound superficial. You can still get something from it, if you want, or you can look elsewhere. But this isn't a issue with you, it's an issue with the limitations of the relationships of the group.

Now the fact that you feel a need to belong on a deeper level, can be addressed in a different community. This community is a start, is it not? Loneliness is hard, it is for me even, but in my most lonely moments, I just try to be sweet to myself, and say, I am here for me. It's not a panacea, but it gets me through it.

I too write a lot, I bet a lot of use scapegoats are writers, because we want to work so hard to be heard, when we feel like we haven't by the people we've been close to. It's a talent, cultivate it, if you enjoy it. Let your creative juices flow, sometimes when you make something difficult, creative, beautiful, and honest, and you show it to the right people, they won't be able to help, but be seen by you. And that's what we want ultimately, right? To be seen and heard.

lillylover · April 12, 2023, 01:07:56 PM

Hi WhereImAt,
Thank you for your reply. Yes for empaths it's hard to be shallow if not impossible.

From the advice here thus far including yours I think i will stay in the group and focus on my writing. That is the one area they behave. Thus I can trust the feedback. They write really well as I said and that is making me work hard on my own writing. I will try to NOT let their behaviors seep into me and live in my molecules.

I'm glad that you have found your voice through writing.

That is a gift to you from you!

Lily L...

WhereImAt · April 16, 2023, 05:55:54 PM

Good call, you do you, Lilly Lover!

I too want to get back into writing, it went to the wayside recently, because of life, but it's one of my biggest talents and passions, and talking to you, has reminded me of how much I love it! So thanks for that.

Yes, well, I find that I can value politeness and small talk, to a small degree, and it helps me with more shallow people, because I see that it's a way of reminding people that you're safe and won't dump on them. People do it as a way to test if you have boundaries or not, and to grease the gears. It's not particularly fun for me though, but it's better than awkwardness, I am not good at it though.