The hardest part is...

[Lilyloo]

  The hardest part about having an N mother and I cannot get past it no matter what I do, is that others don't believe me or else they just excuse her. I've heard "she's just old"  " It's just how she is"  " just ignore her"  Much of this comes from my siblings who she has also raged at, but it also comes from a couple of friends I have confided in, one person said "shes just a bitter old lady" 


I have only brothers. When my brother was dying she made it about her. She would say to him "at least you know whats wrong with you" pertaining to her health and she always says "I don't know what's wrong with me"  After he had major surgery for cancer a few weeks before he died,  she had someone take her to visit him in a wheelchair. She did not need a wheelchair!  He called me after that and said " I am dying and she's still making it about her"  My heart broke for him.

The mean nasty emails from her back in early March, were so awful. When I tried to tell her our lives are turned upside down right now, she turned it right away back to herself. Other than saying that she didn't know what to tell me other than "to pray"  which seems to be her obsession. She preaches on being a great Christian, but her ways are nothing in my opinion what God would want.

She accused me of saying things I did not say. She told me I shut my family out and did I realize my brothers do so much more for her than I do.  Oh and by the way the shut my family out thing is because I refuse to listen to her health woes. She has been at deaths door for 25 years, making up diseases, wanting attention and as far as I know there is nothing more than old age wrong with her.

At this point I don't care anyway.  She has damaged me so badly in my mind.  I live believing that people hate me and think I am a bad daughter.  She has told people that. It's all around town that I do nothing for her and don't visit. When I finally told her I knew she'd told people,  she went off,  then accusing me of all sorts of things

I know this is typical N behavior. The few times I've told my brothers, they say brush it off, so I do not confide in them. It is more serious than just an old lady thing. She is sick and as I look back on my childhood it was always this way. She has now started messaging my daughter.

I just do not know how to turn off my mind that keeps saying people think I am bad.  I don't know why I care??

[Starboard Song]

I know this is typical N behavior. The few times I've told my brothers, they say brush it off, so I do not confide in them. It is more serious than just an old lady thing. She is sick and as I look back on my childhood it was always this way. She has now started messaging my daughter.

I just do not know how to turn off my mind that keeps saying people think I am bad.  I don't know why I care??

I think I know why, and it makes me admire you. Desire for social approval is at the very core of our morality, even more central than the formal tenets of our religions. Only a sociopath would be insoucient in the face of society's judgement against you. Your care for their judgement is a sign of kindness and compassion and ethics. Please be ever so kind to yourself for continuing to care what others think.

If you ever get so fed up that you can say "screw them all!" you'll have given up a sweet part of your heart that I think you need.

We are 3 1/2 years NC from my in-laws. They got brutal and nasty in their rhetoric. She accuses us of hateful things; he backs her up and rationalizes. He is the bully consigliere. And yet, I seek vindication. I want to set the record straight. I think a lot about what warfare does: picking up a young farm kid from Iowa and causing him, weeks later maybe, to kill a man in hand-to-hand combat. And he has to deal with that. I feel like their toxicity did that to me: they picked up a mild-mannered guy who is tirelessly forgiving and caused me, way too soon, to severe all contact between them and my family. And I have to deal with that.

Your brothers are adopting one method of addressing her ongoing toxicity. I encourage you not not be angry at them: they are on their own journey, and getting there their own way. For your part, I think it is important that, while you care about the judgement of others, you must never believe it. For my wife, the books in the top line of my signature were most important in her healing.

She learned way later than you'd believe that years of toxicity had done real damage that deserved tender loving care to fix it and make her stronger.

[Lilyloo]

Thank You!  Starboard Song

I always felt I was kind and good, but she is so mean she made me question that. 

When I stood up for myself she raged.

I am so  sorry for your pain and what you have gone through You are so helpful to all on this forum.

You made me feel better and I will use your advice wisely

[Psuedonym]

Hey Lindaloo,

First off, holy shit. Telling any dying person - let alone your son - 'at least you know what's wrong with you' is one of the most awful, smack-upside-the-head worthy statements I've heard. And you read a lot of them on this forum.

I'm going to contend that the person you are worried about thinking that you're awful and selfish is...you. In addition to the wise part of you that knows that you are a good person, there is another voice in your head - instilled by guess who - that's saying your wicked and terrible. The good news is that once you're aware of that, you can work on changing that voice. Regarding what other people think, two wise statements come to mind:

"You probably wouldn't worry about what people think of you if you could know how seldom they do." - Olin Miller
"What other people think of you is none of your business." - Regina Brett

The second one isn't easy to absorb, but it's also freeing. The only person who's opinion matters is yours. I think, and I say this from experience, that you are looking for other people to give you permission to feel the way you do. You don't need it. You need to do that for yourself.

I know that seems like an 'easy for you to say' statement, but I am in much the same position as you. I am an only child and have been NC with my uBPD/N M since December, and believe me, she tellls EVERYBODY she encounters (and she's been in the hospital, skilled nursing, etc.. so she's met a lot of people) what a monster I am. And that's her right. She can think whatever she wants and say whatever she wants. What I have found when I talk to all these people (I usually forewarn them that they will be hearing of my awfulness) they get it right away. They have seen it all before and, having seen it all before, are not quick to jump to conclusions.

[Lilyloo]

Psuedonym, , Yes! That's it!   I am looking for other people to give me permission to feel the way I do. I don't want to feel that I'm bad anymore.  It's like I can't tell myself it's ok to feel and own the pain she has caused me.

One time my youngest brother told me '" just go drink a beer" when i confided him him about our mother. The fact is when he was not visiting her for years,  she complained to me about him all the time, bashed him!!  He has a girlfriend now after his divorce and she makes him go see our mother.  I felt he did not want to hear anything I said  about our mother so he just said go drink a beer, that was an easy way to not deal with it.

As for the town folk shes telling things too, I'm not sure what they believe.  I don't know how to believe that my opinion counts, or how to be free and love myself for who I know I am. I am constantly asking my husband " am I right in feeling this way"  Once again I need people, anyone to say "it's ok" I need to really work hard on this hang up I have

I am sorry you are going through this same thing.  It should not calm me to see others going through it, but in my selfish way it helps me. I came here for help and good advice. Each of you have given it, and I so appreciate it

And Yes, her attitude when my brother was dying was evil! She will tell you how much she loved him, how she prayed for him, yet in his last days he was turning to me, In his final days his ex wife told me he would cry out "mom stop"  breaks my heart into pieces

[Psuedonym]

Hey Lindaloo,

I actually came to this realization when one day it occurred to me that the narcissism channels I listen to you on Youtube in the background while I'm working are comforting because they are experts who continually give me validation that maintaining NC is the only health thing to do. Speaking of, here are 3 that are great and all very different in style!

Les Carter: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIELB1mz8wMKIhB6DCmTBlw/videos - he's like an old timey GP who offers folksy words of wisdom. Very soothing.
Kris Godinez: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHk_36kn2zDnVL-d23tE6bg/videos - she's like the good friend who gets outraged for you and will say 'you're damn right i'm outraged!' *she does swear a lot if that bothers you
Richard Grannon: https://www.youtube.com/user/SPARTANLIFECOACH/videos - he is very cerebral and goes off on tangents but he's also very funny and entertaining

The nice thing about these guys is that they're constantly posting new stuff, so it's like having the understanding, supportive friend you wish you had around to support you. All three have been a big help to me.

[Lilyloo]

Thank you so much! I will be going to those to watch. Bless you for your kindness and help

[bohemian butterfly]

LindaLoo,

Yes, I agree with you 100%.   It is very invalidating, especially being that you were brave enough to even tell others about it!  I get it and I validate you!

I have found that even those closest to me make excuses.  Perhaps that is their way of trying to provide comfort (to themselves and to me).  I don't think that many people are able to grasp and/or process the idea of abuse, they instantly want to push it away, negate it.  I have also heard similar refrains and "advice"  ("that is just how she is" and  "just ignore her!" and "just don't let her get under your skin")   

I will never forget the day my boyfriend finally "got it"   After providing several examples of her behavior, one day I read a text she sent me.  I remember I cried when he looked at me and sadly said, "I am so very sorry that she said that to you."  He still has days in which he "forgets" but for the most part, he gets it (I think that he has seen how much energy I have exerted in dealing with her, along with all the hours of therapy!)

I feel safest (and validated) in therapy and on forums such as this. 

You are not alone. 

p.s.  I also gets the "infiltrating attempts"  (your mother sending texts to your daughter).  My mother (who went from enmeshed with me to "punishing") has started texting my boyfriend.   At first I was absolutely  LIVID because I just KNEW that would happen!   And unfortunately, I took it out on my boyfriend  (crying, anxious outbursts) but after talking it over with him, (and looking back over my DBT manual) felt much better.  Hard lesson (for me)  I can't control other people's actions, but I can "manage" my PD mother and I can totally control myself.  If my boyfriend were to suddenly "take sides" with my mother, well, #1 he would be the fool, ya know?      And (most importantly!)  HE would have to deal with her.      

p.p.s.   You might think that other people/family members believe her and/or are on her side (you were conditioned to fear her and others' opinions)  but I'd wager that 97% aren't.  I'm certain that the vast majority of people see right through her.  Example:  I recently chatted with my SIL (who is super kind, super religious, super family oriented) and I was 100% sure that my mother had "gotten to her."  I was sick with worry that she thought I was the bad guy.  I was sooooo surprised to find that my SIL sees right through my mother.  I almost cried.   I told her that I blocked my mother on social media because of several guilt ridden/shaming mother/daughter memes she posted; my SIL actually rolled her eyes (in reference to my mother's behavior) and she was like, "oh yes, I saw that!"  She was totally upset (for me) and she totally validated me.  I realized (in hindsight) that my mother (and your mother) can't hide under masks for long......they slip (often) and other people definitely notice!

[Psuedonym]

Always Lindaloo! Everyone here has been such a help to me that it makes me feel good to try to help someone else a little bit. Hang in there!

[bohemian butterfly]

Hey Lindaloo,

I actually came to this realization when one day it occurred to me that the narcissism channels I listen to you on Youtube in the background while I'm working are comforting because they are experts who continually give me validation that maintaining NC is the only health thing to do. Speaking of, here are 3 that are great and all very different in style!

Les Carter: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIELB1mz8wMKIhB6DCmTBlw/videos - he's like an old timey GP who offers folksy words of wisdom. Very soothing.
Kris Godinez: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHk_36kn2zDnVL-d23tE6bg/videos - she's like the good friend who gets outraged for you and will say 'you're damn right i'm outraged!' *she does swear a lot if that bothers you
Richard Grannon: https://www.youtube.com/user/SPARTANLIFECOACH/videos - he is very cerebral and goes off on tangents but he's also very funny and entertaining

The nice thing about these guys is that they're constantly posting new stuff, so it's like having the understanding, supportive friend you wish you had around to support you. All three have been a big help to me.

OMG!  YES!            Kris Godinez and Richard Gannon!  They are AWESOME!   Kris, my goodness...... she is an inspiration!   I want to be Kris!       And Richard (going off on tangents! )   soo true!  LOL! 

[daughter]

Even within the same family, we likely experience our parents differently than how our siblings do. 

Add the mitigating factor of pd-disordered parents, the dysfunctional dynamics of enmeshed parents and siblings, and the differences in perceptions and recollections and expressed opinions can be radically different from sibling to sibling. 

And, I'll add, you're a DAUGHTER, the girl, which so often bears the additional responsibility for being tagged DUTIFUL DAUGHTER. We DDs, myself included, are expected to be more compliant, more self-effacing, more appeasing and accommodating, more devoted, MORE MORE MORE. as if we were born to be their loyal servant. 

I've one sibling, my GC "princess" nsis, and I know we've had two entirely different childhood and adult experiences with our parents, NBM and enNF.  My nsis thinks NBM is a lovable person graced with a Queen Bee personality, and had counselled me to "let her words wash over you like a duck in water".   Easy to say when NBM is nsis' #1 cheerleader and BFF, who doesn't verbally attack her, won't treat her with disdain and disrespect, hasn't done unforgiveable stuff to her, like NBM has done to me.  Of course I've a different perspective.  Of course I feel the relationship with my parents is destroyed.  It's a natural consequence of MY experiences with my parents, even if not nsis' experiences.

It was convenient for nsis to ignore these discrepancies, to ignore this FOO Family history.  It was also financially-beneficial for nsis to maintain the FOO Family narrative that I was "difficult", rather than my parents being emotionally-abusive and intentionally malicious towards me as a matter of practice.  My wealthy parents' estate is likely now destined to be nsis' sole inheritance, with myself certainly and my children likely disinherited, though that may likely have been outcome even if I'd remained compliant, appeasing, dutiful, and enmeshed - the truly frightening part here.

[Lilyloo]

Thank you so much everyone! 

I am sorry for all of your struggles with your mothers  

daughter, You are so right, we are supposed to be the 'dutiful daughters'  they always want more, nothing is ever enough!  We could have gone our whole lives being their servants. I guess some don't ever see it, and go on serving. I will not!  Your sister must be just like your mother. I have a brother who is a carbon of mother.  He is her GC  also.

bohemian butterfly,  I'm so glad your boyfriend finally gets it! Also your SIL, I know that was a huge relief for you. It is a huge weight off of us, esp if it's someone we love that  get's it!  My husband get's it, but I don't think he know's what to do. You are right that most people do see through my Mother. Mine does the same thing on social media and I hope people see how wrong that is.  I do know that my mother has her 'circle'  the other elderly women who whine about their familie's doing nothing   

Thank you everyone

[blacksheep7]

Lindaloo,

I'm sorry for what you are going through.  It is very difficult to accept that our Mothers don't love us, the way they should.  I also felt the same way as you, what are people going to think, say...that I'm a bad daughter, I don't take care of my aging M that lives close by.  We are sensitive people, always looking for approval from our parents and or family.  It took me a while to let go of what people think. It's part of the process of coming Out of the FOG.  I don't care anymore, I know my story, they don't.

Daughter quote:
And, I'll add, you're a DAUGHTER, the girl, which so often bears the additional responsibility for being tagged DUTIFUL DAUGHTER. We DDs, myself included, are expected to be more compliant, more self-effacing, more appeasing and accommodating, more devoted, MORE MORE MORE. as if we were born to be their loyal servant.

That is the big difference when there is a daughter in the FOO.  My brothers don't have the same treatment as I do, they get away with a lot, I am punished if I don't obey to her needs.