estate planning when estranged

[desertpine]

Hi all-
I'm wondering how people navigate estate planning when they have been estranged and marginalized in the family?
I have no contact with my siblings and very little with my parents. I worry about what to do when my parents are at the end stage of their lives and pass away. They designated my siblings as POA, co-trustees, executors of the will, etc. They don't want me involved.
What would happen if I didn't go to their side when they are at the end? What would happen if I didn't attend their funeral services? What would happen if I did go? No matter what I do or don't do, I am treated with disdain and hostility. What do people do in these situations? It's so hard and sad   

[Liketheducks]

I have already decided not to go to my father when he's at the end of life.   He was physically and emotionally abusive towards me, my siblings, and my mother.   Though, from what I now know....some of this was reactive abuse given the macabre dance in and my mother did.     His, now wife, is my age.   I saw her selling off his tools via facebook.   He's had a series of strokes in the last year.   I'm grateful that he doesn't seem to remember much now.   My brothers made a trip last year to say their goodbyes and new wife started more family drama with them.   Now they don't speak at all.   My contact is limited to the odd phone call.   I don't think he currently has the ability to use a phone without his wife's help.    For me....I mourned this relationship so long ago.   I've forgiven him, for myself.    I don't know exactly how I'll do when he actually passes.   In some ways it will be a relief.  Estate planning wise....I venture I'll get a call from the new wife about funeral expenses or something like that.   

With my mom it's tricky as well.   We don't have the kind of relationship anymore where this is something we discuss.   I imagine, I'll likely be charged with clearing out her stuff from her apartment and storage unit.   I have a two brothers.   They have 5 young girls between them.   There is nothing of my mother's that I want at this point in life.   One of my SIL will likely go looking for anything valuable when the time comes.  I've let go of that as well.   Neither of them have any meaningful assets to plan around.   

 I'm sorry you're here.   

[moglow]

Desertpine, I'd have to reverse those questions and glean what I can from my answers - what happens if you DO go to see them, if you decided to attend services, etc. Given you're basically no contact with the lot of them, the question becomes: what do YOU need from anything you mention? I'm not suggesting you go in with any expectations of others, but what will give you peace. You're not going to get that from others, but rather will find it within yourself.

Fact is, it's as likely to go one way as the other - if you don't go you'll wish you had and vice versa. I think that's truly situation where you choose the lesser of evils, within yourself. Not based on their actions/lack of same but rather what will help you put it down. For you that might be "trying" (or not) one last time. You may need to see that they are actually gone, to let it all go. You may be more comfortable not reopening those wounds and just finding quiet moments alone to say your goodbyes.

There's no one size fits all, think of what fits YOU.

[Poison Ivy]

desertpine, when you refer to "estate planning," do you mean end-of-life visits and funerals or do you mean your role, as administrator, beneficiary, or both, in these people's estates?

[desertpine]

Poison ivy- I mean visits and funerals. I recently received a message from my parents that they designated my siblings as co-trustees. Previously they informed me that they identified one of my siblings as the executor/  administrator for all of the documents (poa, executor of the will, etc). Basically, they decided that my siblings will have all the responsibilities and power, and I do not/ will not have any involvement. The message said they didn't disinherit me but they want my siblings to work together when the time comes to make decisions about end of life issues, dividing the assets, etc.
I think I'm being disowned - I'm already estranged. My siblings cut me off years ago. I rarely hear from my parents- just occasional emails.
It seems like another way of telling me that I'm not part of the family. It's so sad. And I feel the anticipatory grief of being excluded when my elderly parents pass away.

[moglow]

Desertpine, that may well be the siblings' mindset but your parents can designate anything they wish to go to specific people. My mother "threatened" many times to make one of her nieces the executor, thinking that meant the niece could do what she wanted with everything. She found out that's not the case at all, at least in our state.

Being the executor means that you're responsible for seeing to distribution and closing out the estate, and where I live the executor [or personal representative] has to attest for the court when and that all distribution is complete. That doesn't mean they have say in or can override specific bequests. As a presumed heir you should be able to obtain a copy of wills, distribution etc once it's filed with the court. Small comfort I know, but I can see where it feels very differently from this side.

I wish i could ease this for you, I know it has to be painful.

[JenniferSmith]

Based on what you said your parents told you, it does sound like they want to have your siblings in charge of everything before and after death. It also sounds like you are already feeling the pain of being "on the outside" from the rest of your family, and to hear this information, I can understand it would really feel like rubbing salt in that wound - almost a confirmation of your worst fears, perhaps.

I'll mention a few details based on what I went through that might help you have a better sense of what to expect.  Let's assume that at some point your parents reach a stage in their health where they are very frail, very ill, and/or possibly losing cognitive abilities such as dementia.  If they are in a state where they can't easily send texts or emails or calls, your siblings will be in charge of any communication they have with any extended family, or you, or anyone else in their life.

Essentially at that point in their health decline, your siblings (as POA and also the ones your parents have chosen to trust the most) will be managing their life for them - paying bills, making decisions about what type of care they need, selling a home to go into assisted living, etc. 

If your siblings don't want to make it easy for you to have any communication, then they can do that.  It will come down to what your parents express to them in terms of what they want (ie, making a phone call to you) and how your siblings decide to act.

Your siblings will also be in charge of planning a funeral or memorial, and they will get to decide whether your have any involvement or input with that.

You mentioned a trust. If your parents have a trust then there will be beneficiaries of the trust. Some families decide to share that type of information before death so people will know what to expect, but that isn't always the case. 

In terms of your siblings being "in control" of your parents' finances, etc, as POA, that all ends the moment they die. Once someone dies, the POA role goes away. From that moment forward, your siblings will have to act in accordance with laws in terms of a will and/or trust, managing their accounts, etc. If you are a beneficiary, you will be notified, and you do have rights in terms of obtaining a copy of the will/trust.

Ideally your siblings will act lawfully and ethically in the roles they've been granted by your parents.

Given that your parents have granted your siblings these roles, you will have to decide whether or not you want to assert yourself and state you want to be involved in some aspects of the process, or if you want to just accept that you will be informed about things and not involved in any discussions.  Its sadly also possible that even if you assert your desire to be included that your siblings won't listen to that and will do things how they want to.

I went through this with one parent, my good parent. I was not POA, I was not included in any decisions. My sibling did not want to include me in decision making. It was painful to realize that I was not considered for that role, but I have to say, after it was all over (my parent went through a health decline spanning just under a year and then died), I feel relieved that I didn't have to do anything. I took it in a hurtful way at first, but now that its been over a year, I don't feel that way anymore.

I would say spend time getting clear about your own feelings, and realize that it says nothing about your worth that your siblings are POA, etc.  Prepare yourself for the worst case scenario- whatever that looks like for you - and know that you will get through it. I think its good you're thinking about this in advance because it gives you time to come to terms with what you might have to deal with, and you can create a plan for yourself rather than feeling blind-sided.

I hope your siblings are people who will follow the law. That is the main issue when dealing with being in charge of someone's finances as POA, and as executor or trustee... will that person or persons do what they are required under the law.  It can get very messy if they don't, and you may have to retain an attorney to advocate for yourself if that is how your siblings choose to handle things.

Edit to add: My intention is not to sound too harsh, black/white about this. I understand how you feel and how this time of life in a family can magnify the feelings around the roles we are in. I just wanted to paint a picture of how it can look if your siblings don't want to include you in any decision-making.

Maybe they will, but that phrase "hope for the best but plan for the worst" comes to mind here. You know your siblings better than anyone, so you will probably have an idea about how they will act with the legal powers they are being granted.  In the end, though, our worth in this world is not defined by how our parents/siblings treat us. It can be so hard to remember when we're caught up in the dynamics of families that bring us to a forum like this.

During the year of my parent's decline and then death, my stress level was extremely high, nearly having actual panic attacks, which I don't have any history of, due to it hitting me so hard that I had NO CONTROL or input about ANY of it.

Looking back, I wish I had just accepted that I am not included, I have no say, and just be at peace with that, as painful as it is. Sometimes the truth is very harsh, but trying to fight it can cause us more stress than accepting it for how it is. Much easier said than done, I know.

[Poison Ivy]

  I agree with your post, JenniferSmith.