How do you deal with flying monkeys that you like?

[pianissimo]

I have a cousin I like, but I'm getting a "flying monkey" vibe from her, and I don't know how to handle the situation.

She and I are actually in similar situations. We both went abroad, we both ended up with similar problems in our late thirties, we both realized there are narcissistic characteristics in family members... Our communication is on and off, by which I mean, we stay out of touch long periods of time, and then reconnect. The last time this happened is last summer when she and her sister came to visit the family.  Then, she got in touch me over whatsapp around the time uncle passed away.

I welcomed this re-connection initially, because there have been deaths in extended family, and, the family isn't functional enough to deal with these.

In the beginning, I enjoyed conversations with cousin, but, as they increased in frequency, they became more triggering for me. Also, gradually, I have lost the sense of connection I felt in the beginning.  There were times I wondered if we have to call each other this often. Out of nowhere, I feel this obligation to call her every week or so. Now, it feels like, our communication is forced, like if one of the parties doesn't call the other, it means something is wrong. But, in reality, there is not much left to talk about. (Is it me or did this relationship progress as any unhealthy relationship does?)

I don't know how much of this is about my personality. Like, I'm OK with spending time with myself for long periods of time. When I call people, it's because I miss them, and I want to spend time with them. With cousin though, there are times I wonder why she's calling me, because there is always a short period of time between calls. Sometimes, it turns out she's struggling with something, so she calls me to share. But, in the end of calls, I feel drained. There are times the situation reminds me of the time my mother unloaded her adult problems in her life on me when I was a teenager. Nothing I said or did helped her feel better, and, it actually did the other way around, I would end up feeling bad about myself. There is a similar dynamic between me and my cousin now. There are times she calls me when she's feeling bad. I try to sit with her feelings, but whatever she says demands consolation from me, and whatever consolation I give her is refused in some way. The situation pushes me in a position for me to advise her in a patronizing (or perhaps in a motherly) way (like "What you are feeling right now is X, and you shouldn't think about yourself that way"), but I settle down with self-doubt (like, what do I know, perhaps things are as bad as she makes it out to be, perhaps it's me who is blissfully ignorant). In our phone calls, I contradict her a lot too about what we know about personality disorders and so on. All this creates some kind of tension in the conversation, and, after the call, it feels like we had an argument. This feels weird because I wonder to myself how on earth I end up arguing with somebody who calls me for support.

At this point, I wonder if I should talk to her about how our conversations feel unhealthy to me (I guess I will). I also feel like asking her if she initially called me because my father told her to, but I will probably not. Also, the idea that my father told her to call me to make sure I'm OK when she's not in a state to look out for me in any way drives me crazy.

Did you have similar experiences with loved relatives?

[Cat of the Canals]

There are times she calls me when she's feeling bad. I try to sit with her feelings, but whatever she says demands consolation from me, and whatever consolation I give her is refused in some way.

I've experienced this often. And it wasn't until I watched a video about transactional analysis that I fully understood what was happening.

Here's a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOqJ4sc9TAc

It definitely sounds there there's some FOG happening with this relationship. You say you feel obligated to call. That afterward, it feels like you've had an argument, that you doubt yourself, and you feel drained. All of these are red flags to me.

[pianissimo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOqJ4sc9TAc

This is great content, I actually enjoyed watching it. I love these kinds of content that help me understand people and what they communicate.

I don't think she does this in a manipulative way though. I think that I do sense a demand from her for something perhaps she can't name herself. Because, there are times I sit with stressed and depressed people, and after talking to them, even though what I say doesn't help them, or even though I don't have anything helpful to say, in the end, they somehow let me know that me being there with them makes them feel better. With my cousin though, it doesn't feel this way. So, I think I picked up something here.

The feeling of obligation just crept in. I don't know where that came from.

I think that I will try to figure out what feels wrong to me and talk to her about it. To me it seems so strange that, she kind of came into my life and suddenly became a part of it.  Before she made that initial phone call, we hadn't spoken for months, and after it,  we ended up talking so frequently, and it felt like I played a role in this dynamic too. Well, in my case, around the time she called, I was struggling, and I found comfort in her presence. What surprises me is that, we talked about unhealthy relationships, but it seems like that unhealthy dynamic played out in our relationship with each other too.

[OverHere]

CatoftheCanals thank you so much for suggesting this video. The one that comes after on "gimmicks" was so helpful to me  because it explains that we cannot accurately assess what is going on for the other person but we can explore our own feelings and desires and what triggers or pulls us in.  I feel released from a burden I couldn't identify earlier.

PS  I was searching on "flying monkeys" as I know enough to avoid outright Ns but have been having trouble in this area

[Basil Bachelorette]

hi pianissimo,

 Sorry, I'm late to the party, but I have to comment because I find this all too relatable! My conversations with my brother have been on and off like this for a long time now. It feels like he is in a fog, that he is depressed, and I noticed my last convo with him poorly affected my self-esteem. In my case, we often discuss our family, and my sister who I am NC with, so it's not a mystery to me. he is a flying monkey because he will often advocate for her indirectly, trying to connect her abuse to her bf or our parents. It's not that he is wrong necessarily, but more that I come away from the convo with all sorts of unspoken assumptions about how I should forgive her, or how my own feelings don't matter. I decided next time to tell him straight up that all that matters is to me is how vicious she has been to me recently. 

we talked about unhealthy relationships, but it seems like that unhealthy dynamic played out in our relationship with each other too

Are these conversations about people you both know? Does it feel like there is never any overcoming it and moving on, like your cousin is stuck in resentment? I think this is what happens when someone is missing a key emotional breakthrough, either by actually feeling their emotions, or making some sense of them.

There are times she calls me when she's feeling bad. I try to sit with her feelings, but whatever she says demands consolation from me, and whatever consolation I give her is refused in some way. The situation pushes me in a position for me to advise her in a patronizing (or perhaps in a motherly) way (like "What you are feeling right now is X, and you shouldn't think about yourself that way"), but I settle down with self-doubt (like, what do I know, perhaps things are as bad as she makes it out to be, perhaps it's me who is blissfully ignorant)

This sounds exhausting! Like, you tried validating her feelings, but she pushes you to not validate them? how would she respond if you ask her how she feels about X to begin? 
I'm curious to know if you've noticed any more patterns since the months have passed.