Is this the last straw?

[beepositive]

It may be as simple as knowing on some level that she's peed in the nest with you and knows there's no going back. That's fine, but she's not understanding that THAT is the person you know and why you are where you are. You don't want to inflict THAT on your children or have her undermine your family. You're a unit and that unit comes first, not your mother's need to be all-important to them.

Peed in the nest, ha! Love it. Right. So like now you want to come over to my new nest and I'm supposed to assume you won't pee?

And it really doesn't matter that she helped us buy the nest? I mean, I know it doesn't mean I should feel guilty the rest of my life or allow her to wreck my family, but it still probably was a horrible idea.

[moglow]

You can second guess yourself until the cows come home, but it's done. You have your nest!! Does that make you obligated to kowtow to her demands for MORE MORE MORE? No. If money is owed, pay it back as soon as possible, ahead of time and rob Peter to pay Paul if you feel so moved [as I did when I borrowed money from md]. I had to close that door for myself so it wasn't there for her to throw in my face, whether she brought it up or not. But still, that's a separate issue from what you're dealing with here.

She's being pushy and intrusive and refusing to acknowledge that you're the parents. You get to decide how to raise your family. Just because she asks doesn't mean you have to answer. You already have. All her alternative suggestions? Same. You already told her where you stand.

She basically just wants to know when and under what circumstances she will see the kids.

Mo being a snot: When we call and/or set up a visit - no drop in visits are possible, we work from home and have obligations there. We'll still have Sunday dinner or play in the park [or whatever you've done in the past], it's no longer every other day, twice a week or possibly not even every week. Like most families, we have work, school, camp, sports etc. PLUS being our own family. Again, "she" by herself with the kids isn't possible. Not at any time in the foreseeable future.

You're a package deal and right now the package is broken. Maybe you need time to think over recent events and there will be no visits at all for a while. You get to decide that too. She's not grasping that damage has been done and you have to regroup from that. Her treatment and disregard for you and your wife put you where you are, where you don't believe she'd be any different with your children. You have no reason to believe that.

Again and until you decide otherwise - you're a package deal.

[beepositive]

She's not grasping that damage has been done and you have to regroup from that. Her treatment and disregard for you and your wife put you where you are, where you don't believe she'd be any different with your children. You have no reason to believe that.

Again and until you decide otherwise - you're a package deal.

No, she does not seem to grasp the damage. She's like a ticking time bomb. She explodes, and then the next day she wants everything to be normal. She's like, I only exploded to see if maybe that would force you to give me what I want, and it didn't work. So now we're all going to pretend it didn't happen, k?

Your comment really helped me make sense of how I needed to respond. I simply said, "We'll make a plan soon." I'm not getting into details or agreeing to anything in particular. I see what she wants -- no plans, no boundaries, an open door. She doesn't even see what she's asking for, she's in such denial.

Luckily, no money is owed. No contracts are active. About two years ago, I took care of all that.

Today I got a text from her, asking me to wish my children a Happy 4th of July from gramma.

I often want to find reasons why I'm wrong about her. But messages like that are so classically narcissistic. Why wouldn't she just say Happy 4th? She drives the knife in further every day.

[moglow]

Exactly. Plus - they're 6. They dont even know what is July 4th yet or that it's a holiday. She could as easily said "wishing all of you a happy 4th." But no, still dividing, still drawing lines between you.

[/size]

She's like a ticking time bomb. She explodes, and then the next day she wants everything to be normal. She's like, I only exploded to see if maybe that would force you to give me what I want, and it didn't work. So now we're all going to pretend it didn't happen, k?

Mine did that too. She's all better so we must all be better. Mention the elephant in the room -her lifetime mistreatment of me- and I'm stirring trouble. "Why cant you just let it go??" All the while we all know her next meltdown is just a matter of time. She'll find or invent an excuse and we go yet another round.

Until we don't, beepositive.

[beepositive]

Exactly. Plus - they're 6. They dont even know what is July 4th yet or that it's a holiday. She could as easily said "wishing all of you a happy 4th." But no, still dividing, still drawing lines between you.

The kids kind of know about July 4th, since they just finished kindergarten and they make a big deal of like every holiday. And we go along for the ride, try to make them fun because they enjoy it so much. As they grow up, we'll talk about culture and religion in an age appropriate way, but for now it's all BBQ, sparklers, roasting marshmallows! Yay, why not. I'm not going to ruin it for them talking about adult issues. I say this because that's what my mom did. Everything was bad, xmas decorations are stupid, thanksgiving is genocide, etc. She was above it all. So it's extra weird now, having her tell me to wish my kids a happy 4th. It's like, a happy what?! Who are you? And now I'm the villain if I don't play along. But I think that's part of why she didn't send wishes to all of us. Cause they're fake anyway. She literally couldn't care less about this or any holiday. Normally, if I wish her a happy whatever, she's like what, is that today?

I never responded. I couldn't figure out how. What would I say? No, I will not pass on your wishes? Lie and say sure, I'll tell them? Explain why her message was offensive? I probably should have just responded "Happy 4th." But I couldn't bring myself to do that because I felt like she hadn't wished me one, and it felt so very odd. So I didn't respond. And now she is probably more upset and will take this to mean things are not good between us. Which is true. They were better a couple days ago when I told her, we'll make a plan soon. She probably had no idea that she was making things worse, yet again, by saying Happy 4th to the kids.

[beepositive]

Sorry, just reread my last post and it's basically like a journal entry. Total jumble of words and feelings. That's what happens when you're in a rush and don't preview post. I'm basically just struggling with guilt as usual.