My story & concern about affecting sexual identity

seeking serenity · February 16, 2019, 03:26:27 PM

Hi. I have found a great deal of comfort in finding this website and reading posts from others. Thank you for being here! My story is that I have been married for 25 years to my uNPDh. I basically worshipped him in the beginning because he seemed so different from my uNPDbm. Things seemed wonderful until we had children and not everything was about him. He had always been great when I wanted the same things as him, but when I wanted or needed something different, he pretty much did whatever it took to get things the way he wanted them.

Eventually, after years of my confusion and tears, our teen daughter began pointing out some of his behaviors. She also became intensely angry with him. She didn't like how he treated people, including me. She became very upset and verbal about situations she felt left someone overpowered and controlled. She developed a negative attitude toward men. She became very verbal about feministic ideas and would get intensely angry about his opinions and values. This went on for a few years and I slowly started seeing that she had some very valid points. Then, he did something he usually never does. He treated me badly in front of a close friend. I had noticed over the years that his behavior in front of friends or people he respects has been vastly different than his behavior with our family or strangers. When my friend said "I have never seen him treat you that way", it made me stop and think. A lot. I started learning about narcissism and found this website. As the fog cleared, I became incredibly angry. At him and myself.

When I finally hit the point when I simply didn't know if I could stay with him (which I told him), he finally started genuinely cooperating in counseling. To be clear, I had already spent years trying to understand what was happening and going to counseling with and without him. Sadly though, I feel we didn't reach this point until after possibly causing some negative affects on our daughter. She had asked to see a therapist when she was in the midst of her anger toward him. That therapist recommended family counseling. We tried this, but my uNPDh sabotaged the sessions and we were told he and I needed to go to someone separately before we could accomplish anything in family therapy. We did this. He cooperated and has made significant changes. I have changed. I no longer allow him to intimidate or bully me and am not scared to challenge him. In fact, I have been perfectly clear in letting him know how he has made me feel. He now is treating me more appropriately.

However, I have deep sadness about how we may have affected our daughter. When we eventually managed to get on the same page in counseling (3 years later), she no longer wanted to talk about how he had made her feel. However, she recently came out to us that she is bi-sexual. I know I am not supposed to think there is a link between his behavior, her intense anger at men, and her sexual identity, but I do. I sincerely apologize if this offends anyone. I am just trying to find a way to deal with the anger I have toward him and myself for how we have role-modeled marriage to our kids.

Thank you for listening.

RavenLady · February 16, 2019, 04:49:36 PM

Hi seeking serenity.

Congratulations on your brave journey and finding your way Out of the FOG.

I see a lot of myself in the way you describe your daughter. My journey into feminism helped free me from toxic shaming and subjugation enforced on me by my abusive uNPDf, who assumes a right to take charge of others. I learned from unapologetic, self-respecting women and the men (and nonbinary folks) who appreciate them that I should not be ashamed of who I am, regardless of what the culture tells me constantly. Also, in my case, it has forced me to see my abusive uBPDm as part of the problem too, and this is even more heart-breaking as it is a betrayal of the solidarity a girl child should receive from her mother.

Gaining a more humanistic and empowering alternative view of myself provided me with the intellectual framework to challenge some of the emotional abuse and has helped me get Out of the FOG. It has helped me see my N'ather's true colors, and (perhaps worse) my PD mother's too. It's been awful/intense/devastating/liberating/hopeful/healing.

I am a feminine woman happily married to a masculine man. In fact, he has been key to my healing as he has played an instrumental role in pointing out to me the misogyny in my own family. We have a pretty mainstream heterosexual sex life together and I am deeply satisfied in it. In other words, none of the patriarchal abuse drove me into sexual relationships with women. These things -- my sexual orientation and my parents' misogyny -- are unrelated in my life. I wouldn't read too much into your daughter's preference in sexual partners. I doubt it has anything to do with her home environment.

I would also, ever so gently, encourage you to consider the possibility that what you may be viewing as a bad/sad result of NPDf abuse not only 1) isn't a result of the PD abuse but also 2) isn't bad/sad. If your daughter is attracted to women as well as men, that means, arguably, she has double the odds of finding joy and pleasure in her life! Surely this is a positive thing? So perhaps look at the bright side and just try to love her for who she is without taking on guilt that will be unproductive for you. Instead, be as emotionally present with her as you can be, regardless of where she is in life. That's what I wish I had from my Mom.

Many hugs and best wishes to you. It sounds like you have been very resilient. You have my respect.

Sarah H · February 16, 2019, 05:52:34 PM

Hi seeking serenity

I am new to this forum and do not feel it is my place to welcome you but welcome anyway :-) I am sorry to hear of the events that lead you here.

I am replying because your daughter's experience has some similarities with my own. This is just my personal opinion, please take from it anything that helps and ignore the rest.

My dad is controlling and dominant, my mum, my sister and me all walked on eggshells around him growing up and still do.

It sounds like you were unaware of how you were being treated and took action when you became aware; I cannot see what more you could have done. It seems that you feel sad and guilty and I don't want to tell you that you shouldn't feel this but I also see nothing to blame you for.

I was a lesbian in my teenage years and into my mid 20s; this was a long time ago when attitudes were less accepting and people wanted to know what had gone 'wrong' to make me that way. I did not believe that anything was wrong with me that I needed to explain and still do not.

Your daughter has been able to talk to you about her sexuality which I could not do; I kept it secret from my parents for years; this seems to be something that you have done well that my mother did not (she told me she would kill herself if either me or my sister were gay).

You say that you are angry about how you have role modelled marriage for your daughter but you haven't said that her relationship choices are negative; I keep chosing and staying in relationships where I am undervalued or mistreated and I think this is a result of my childhood home environment; my sexuality did not cause me unhappiness except when confronted with prejudice. I still have a lesbian friend from my younger days who has an enviable, lasting, supportive, happy and healthy relationship.

You haven't offended me, it is okay to ask questions.

Latchkey · February 18, 2019, 12:16:51 AM

seeking serenity,

I just want to add my welcome. Your D's sexual identification as bisexual or it being caused by anything related to her father's PD is not part of the scope of this forum. She sounds well adjusted and like many of her peers (assuming she is late teens to early 20s) is exploring her sexuality. Sexuality is ever changing.
It's also great your adult D has maintained a relationship with you and feels comfortable sharing this with you.

I think RavenLady and Sarah H have given you some heartfelt insight and hopefully take the burden off your mind.

How long has your H been going to therapy and making changes?
Are you getting support for yourself and have interests or work outside of your marriage that keep you going?

I think you might like our Committed to Working on It Board, and Working on Us board as you share more of your story.

Again, welcome!

Latchkey

seeking serenity · March 12, 2019, 03:09:11 PM

RavenLady~I want to thank you for your response to me. Your journey does sound very similar to my daughter's and your words have affected me deeply. You have allowed me to break away from my worry and guilt and look at the many positives of my daughter's strong beliefs without blame toward myself for the things I wish I had done differently. You also reminded me of what is most important to me as a mom: being there for my daughter and loving her unconditionally. After spending time reflecting on your words, I was able to write her a letter telling her how much I love that she is a strong, willful, independent person and I love her exactly as she is.

Sarah H~I want to thank you for your kind words as well. You have helped me a great deal with my self-blame of my situation with my uNPDh. Your point about relationship choices really helped me get perspective on what is most important for her. In the letter I mentioned above, I told to her that I hope regardless of who she is with, that she focuses on what she wants/doesn't want, how she wants to be treated/not treated and to ask herself what she wants/doesn't want in her relationships.

Latchkey~I apologize for using the wrong forum for this. I'm not sure if you are suggesting I use a different board or that this is not appropriate content for this website? I'm new to the "forum" concept and want to be sure I am using it properly.

To answer your questions, I have read posts on the Committed to Working on it Board and have found them extremely helpful. I will check out the Working on Us board

My H has genuinely participated in therapy for a little over a year now. You are very insightful to ask about my support and interests. After my uNPDh kept me in chaos for over a decade by pushing us into building five houses (no we are not contractors and have had full time jobs during this), and seven moves (one house I didn't want to move from & that took several years to sell), I have emerged from the Fog feeling lost and like I no longer know what I enjoy or want to do with my time. I no longer work and am enjoying meditation, yoga and days where I try to pamper myself and remember that I am still in the process of healing and I deserve time for me. Thank you for asking and for your suggestions.

Sincerely,
Seeking Serenity

Latchkey · March 13, 2019, 08:51:54 PM

Quote from: seeking serenity on March 12, 2019, 03:09:11 PM

Latchkey~I apologize for using the wrong forum for this. I'm not sure if you are suggesting I use a different board or that this is not appropriate content for this website? I'm new to the "forum" concept and want to be sure I am using it properly.

To answer your questions, I have read posts on the Committed to Working on it Board and have found them extremely helpful. I will check out the Working on Us board

My H has genuinely participated in therapy for a little over a year now. You are very insightful to ask about my support and interests. After my uNPDh kept me in chaos for over a decade by pushing us into building five houses (no we are not contractors and have had full time jobs during this), and seven moves (one house I didn't want to move from & that took several years to sell), I have emerged from the Fog feeling lost and like I no longer know what I enjoy or want to do with my time. I no longer work and am enjoying meditation, yoga and days where I try to pamper myself and remember that I am still in the process of healing and I deserve time for me. Thank you for asking and for your suggestions.

Sincerely,
Seeking Serenity

Seeking Serenity,
Sounds like you are getting settled in here and doing well for yourself overall.

My response is about your D's sexual identity being appropriate content for the forum. I hope you understand that by looking at the guidelines and that putting her "sexual identity" as bisexual as abnormal or "being caused" by a PD father there are assumptions being made that can offend.

Other than that, you are free to discuss how you are doing and how your family is doing. In the working on Us board- many times folks discuss how dealing with a PD can cause stress which in turn causes illness. Again, we can only focus on healing and helping ourselves.

Your D sounds like a strong person and I think like many of us with PD parents here, she is doing the best she can and in her case, it sounds like she is thriving.

Latchkey

Sarah H · March 17, 2019, 03:46:51 AM

Hi seeking serenity

Thank you for replying.

The letter you have written for your daughter nearly made me cry because my mum could never have written that and my life would have been so different if she had been someone who could have. I am sure that both my parents have always wanted me to be happy and to be treated well by others but what they wanted and what they taught me every day were different things - they taught me to put my dad's needs before mine 100% of the time; they taught me that my needs, opinions, values etc were always of secondary importance or of no importance at all; I was only seen to be worthwhile when I was 'good' ie serving his needs and keeping the peace.

It seems that living with a dominant and controlling person can result in feeling lost when freedom is regained. I wondered if this is what you meant when you said that you don't know what you enjoy or what you want to do.

I have codependancy traits; now that I have come out of another long period of focusing on another's needs over mine I too have felt lost - as though I am a puppet who's strings have been cut and I am unable to move by self will alone. However I am recovering quickly this time around as I have been here before and I have a self to return to. I just need to be careful not to fill the gap with another person's problems and I am getting much better at this. The world has a lot to offer and I have much to be grateful for.

I wish you well 🙂

Drifter17 · March 22, 2019, 07:38:34 PM

Hi SeekingSerenity,

Your story of your daughter sounds very similar to my own story of my coming-out process. I identify as a Bisexual cis-woman and am active in feminist circles. I also grew up with a NPD father and a BPD mother. Do you feel guilt that you "caused" your daughter to identify as Bisexual? Because from my perspective, there is no need for guilt nor is it a bad thing your daughter identifies as Bi. Your anger at your uNPDh is valid because of his poor treatment of you and your daughter. I'm of the opinion that things don't cause us to "turn bi" or gay or trans, we just are, and as sexual beings we simply discover those things about ourselves as life goes on. My own upbringing I never felt "normal" in my sexuality (whatever that means!), I always felt a bit off from my peers. I've only dated cis-men so far, but once I finally recognized my attraction to women it felt freeing. I don't know how else to put it. I have never been comfortable with men, and I do blame that on my father, but that's my own journey to work on. It hasn't stopped me from forming meaningful relationships with men, although when I first came out I really was angry with men. But I matured, I've developed skills to help me identify good, moral men that I want in my life. I guess all this is to say that I think your daughter will be just fine. She may face oppression due to her sexuality, and that is definitely something to be angry about, but she will find her way. I know I did, and I still am. I want to give you hope that even us LGBT+ kids who grew up with PD parents can turn out ok.