Responding to Codependent Manipulation with Nonviolent Communication

[Wilderhearts]

Just to be clear....the header is my goal, and what I am in the process of working towards, not something I have yet figured out or have done!

A friend did me a huge favour a while ago.  My (non-PD'd) roommate's constant tantrums made it too hard for me to work from home in the weeks before I moved out, so my friend let me work from her place nearby.  I moved, then withdrew from everyone for about a month.  I had 3 face to face visits in that whole time, one with this friend.  I had experienced a lot of chronic and intensely toxic stress and grief in that 6 week period, and honest to god was recovering my energy after being in survival mode.

So a few days ago she texts me that she had "been trying to keep in contact with her friends thinking they would do the same for her, but there hasn't been enough reciprocation" so she's "taking a break from people."  She did say she had this realization after having some kind of non-specified "emergency."  She has been having a lot of emotional breakdowns, mental health and other health problems. 

It's not clear from her message if she's applying this lack of reciprocation to me or not, and it isn't clear from her message if she is aware how she has continued her unhealthy, codependent pattern of behaviour, in which she gives only to subtly coerce others into giving, and she's giving what she doesn't have within her to give.  She's openly told me friends have told her she does this.

However.  I felt a lot of feelings of obligation, fear, and guilt rising up, but also anger, because I believe I should not feel guilty for anything.  I should not feel obligated to meet her social and emotional needs beyond my ability to do so, just because she helped me when I was in a serious jam.  I have practiced healthy boundaries for the past month, and prioritized my own mental health.  I also have been slowly and steadily making efforts to reciprocate her kindness, and now I'm wondering if she thinks I should have repaid her favour quid-pro-quo on a snappier schedule.

After critically reflecting on our friendship over the course of the pandemic, and reviewing our texts over the last month, I have shown up for her as a friend and have matched her efforts over the past month.  Neither of us was great about connecting - the difference was that my efforts had lowered to be on par with hers. She also had a month when she AWOL'd a while ago, and I gave her space and checked in when she reconnected.

So here's the thing.  I think she might be very unfairly judging and accusing me, and I think she may be relying on codependent manipulation - playing the victim, giving to create obligation, double-standards, gaslighting me by claiming I haven't been holding up my end of the friendship, when I actually have.  I can't resolve that, because she's taking a break from all contact - so I'm also mad that she's fractured our relationship and left me with that anxiety, rather than providing an opportunity to repair it.

Is it non-violent communication to say "I feel judged and accused and manipulated"?  Are those even feelings?  Or am I just rewording "you're doing X" statements to sound like feelings?  Is there a google translate function for this???  I really would like to be able to get to the place where I'm doing the whole observations-feelings-needs/values-requests, but I'm feeling a little stuck.

[Wilderhearts]

In searching for how to phrase what I was experiencing using non-violent communication components, I came across this article about how to tune into yourself to determine if you're being manipulated, and essentially everything in it applies in this situation:
https://time.com/5411624/how-to-tell-if-being-manipulated/

[Thru the Rain]

I'm also mad that she's fractured our relationship and left me with that anxiety, rather than providing an opportunity to repair it.

I found the sentence that answers your own question. You're mad. You're allowed to feel anger - it's a natural and normal human emotion. And from what you post I think you're feeling frustrated and misunderstood by your friend. And yes, probably judged and manipulated too.

Maybe break apart how you feel VS what you can/should say to your friend.

It seems like you're trying to figure out what to communicate to her (if anything) before you really explore how YOU feel and what's right for YOU. And by trying to frame your thoughts into appropriate, socially acceptable communication, you're self-censoring and second-guessing your emotions a little.

Anger is the emotional equivalent of touching a hot stove. It's our mind and body's way to tell us something's not right, that our boundaries have been crossed. And feeling angry is not the same as treating another person with violence (verbal or otherwise). You can feel anger and still speak kindly and directly.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Hi, Wilderhearts.  I did NVC workshops and groups many years ago.  What I remember Marshall R telling us is that words which refer to what we believe another person is doing are not feelings.  That they're disguised "you statements."  If I said "I feel disrespected by you" that would be me kind of blaming you for something rather than expressing my feelings which might be something like hurt or anger.   That's what was said back then, anyway.

I've seen people use a list of feelings to help them figure out what they are.  It's usually variations on just a handful of basic emotions.

I learned a lot of great stuff from NVC. I loved his playful way of explaining things.   My favorites were "Jackal Postal Delivery Service" and "Giraffe Ears."  Those things are extremely helpful for dealing with the disordered thinking and communication of PD's. 

[JenniferSmith]

Is it non-violent communication to say "I feel judged and accused and manipulated"?  Are those even feelings?  Or am I just rewording "you're doing X" statements to sound like feelings?  Is there a google translate function for this???  I really would like to be able to get to the place where I'm doing the whole observations-feelings-needs/values-requests, but I'm feeling a little stuck.

I am currently taking the Compassion Course (a year long NVC course). It starts every June.  https://www.compassioncourse.org/

The course is closed, but you can buy the course in book form (it has all 52 weekly lessons).  https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-compassion-book-thom-bond/1130008277?ean=9780999441114

It sounds like your instinct is correct here  - you are using non-feeling words (judged, accused, manipulated) in place of actual feelings and needs.

The way to sort this out is to convert those into feelings and needs.  Reflect on the actual feelings you are having (perhaps anger, irritation, sadness, loneliness, etc?), and the needs that are connected to those (perhaps a need for consideration, connection, empathy? - just guesses!).   

When you are in tune with your feelings and needs, you can then start exploring whether or not this person is able/willing to meet those, or whether you may need to try another strategy to get those needs met. NVC teaches there are thousands of ways to get a need met (and a relationship with a certain person may not be the place we can get certain needs met).

I am currently in the stage where I keep a printed handout of needs and feelings with me, and I'm practicing tuning into those throughout the day.

I don't pretend to be an expert - I am just 15 weeks into the course! Best wishes to you!

[treesgrowslowly]

Hey Wilderhearts,

My take...it doesn't sound like she thought about your feelings before sending that cryptic text.

But maybe with time she will see the light as they say.

I would be inclined to respond with a message that matches what she tried to convey- that sometimes people need a break and a time out. This is true for all of us and especially during stressful times. If it were me I would tell her, I need some time too. Can we talk in a month or so?

Now I say that, but in real life when I've done it, it doesn't always go well. It goes well if the person truly saw the friendship as valuable and understood how respectful it is for people to step away for time apart to recharge themselves every so often.

I've had women blow up at me for telling them I need a break. I've had women walk away forever because I said I needed a break. It happens. 

Something I have learned about friendships that might apply here. When you express gratitude for what kind of friend she is, does she see things from your perspective or hers?

Non violent communication is important for sure. But telling someone how we feel doesn't necessarily repair the friendship rift. That requires them to care how we feel. If they are blocked, momentarily or deeply blocked from listening to us when we talk about how we feel then our "I feel" statements just leave us more hurt in the end. What matters to them is how they feel. That is why her first text to you was cryptic and confused you. It was not meant to help you converse with her about it. It was meant to say "I am mad" but in a very unhelpful way. She didn't even clarify if she was talking about you or not. That is a form of gaslighting. 

In my experience when you tell someone how you feel it can lead to more hurt feelings. I've known a lot of passive aggressive people in my life and when you tell them how you feel you are met with more gaslighting. A lot of people think this is what passes for friendship unfortunately.

If she takes some time for herself perhaps she will see that you are a friend worth conversing with about this more honestly, in a month or 2.

I agree with thru the rains post. It is understandable to feel angry about her cryptic text to you.

Trees

[Wilderhearts]

I responded to all your posts, and then my wifi dropped as I hit submit 

What matters to them is how they feel. That is why her first text to you was cryptic and confused you. It was not meant to help you converse with her about it. It was meant to say "I am mad" but in a very unhelpful way. She didn't even clarify if she was talking about you or not. That is a form of gaslighting. 

Cryptic is a good way to describe the text she sent.  It hadn't occurred to me that the crypticness was also passive aggression and gaslighting, but that makes sense to me.  Because she was cryptic, if she was accusing me but realizes it was unjustified, she can just deny it.  Passive aggression hasn't shown up in our friendship like this, but she's admitted she's struggle with it.  The more I think about her behaviour the angrier and more disappointed I feel.  I do feel (no...think) that her text was a "hit and run."  I feel off-balance and confused in response to it. 

Something I have learned about friendships that might apply here. When you express gratitude for what kind of friend she is, does she see things from your perspective or hers?

Are you asking if she's perhaps not recognizing my gratitude and reciprocation because it's not within the narrow definition of how she wanted me to reciprocate?  This is another thing that's unclear to me and something I'm confused about.

I did respond to her in a kind and supportive way, without apologizing or accepting any unearned blame.  I didn't engage with her manipulative behaviour but responded as if she had communicated in an acceptable way.  I do wish now I had set my own boundaries.  I feel much lighter not worrying about seeing her and "paying her back", and that's very telling.  If she reaches out before I'm ready, I'll let her know I still need some space too.  quite honestly, I'm still so mad I kind of don't care about her feelings right now.

Yeah, she's creating chaos and drama for sure.

Thanks for the NVC tips.  I think I was expecting feeling words to communicate a whole lot more than they actually do.  What I really want to say above all else, is that I think her words are unfair, manipulative and hurtful.  But feelings don't communicate that.  I've been keenly aware of my anger, but had the sense that I should be able to articulate that in a way that shouts I'M NOT ACCEPTING THE BLAME YOU'RE UNFAIRLY PLACING ON ME BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.  So basically, I wanted to use NVC in a way that would still let me blame and judge    I think I'm internally in the obnoxious stage of learning NVC and trying to do better on the outside.

I see the many ways being raised by a malignant narcissist are limiting me now.  Blame always has to be assigned and accepted.  Feelings alone are worthless so why bother sharing them?  No one cares how you feel.  This is part of the reason I absolutely was focusing on identifying my feelings only for the purpose of communicating them, specifically to her, rather than feeling them and understanding myself, having compassion for myself.  It's really a pattern of giving power over to the manipulator.  I am, however, happy with how quickly I realized that the feelings of FOG that her text triggered were unwarranted.

I think I have an idea of where I need to go with this.  I'll look over those sheets more (feeling words seem so limiting to me now though!) and keep tuning into my own feelings and needs, and I'll set boundaries where I need to with her if she reaches out before I'm ready to try reconnecting...if I want to reconnect with her during this time at all.  I really don't have the energy to be dragged down into her emotional chaos.

[Wilderhearts]

I just need to add...and I hope folks get a kick out of the irony...she's the one who gave me the NVC book!    I'm thinking I should return it to her before we try to resolve anything

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Sharing feelings and needs does leave us more open, which can feel almost dangerous to those of us who grew up with an abusive pwPD!   But it has a real advantage.

Earlier this year I did this with someone I've had a  relationship with most of my life.  She basically blew me off with an attitude of "I don't care about your feelings or needs.  I don't care to hear about them and I'm moving forward without taking them into account"   Not in so many words, of course, but definitely with dismissiveness and behaviors.

Yes, it felt bad.  But it was extremely informative.  I'm not a helpless child who has to put up with people who are callous or uncaring anymore. 

It exposed a side of her which I then realized had always been there.  Friendship or no, there are reasons I will still come into contact with her.  But I was able to decide, pretty quickly, that I wanted to take a big step back from her.  Because of this, our relationship has fundamentally changed in a way which is much healthier for me.

My friends nowadays are only people who are caring, trustworthy, respectful, etc.  People I CAN trust overall with my feelings and vulnerabilities. 

If there's someone in my life who isn't trustworthy in that way, I'd rather find out sooner than later.  It's worth a case of hurt feelings to me.

[Wilderhearts]

Sharing feelings and needs does leave us more open, which can feel almost dangerous to those of us who grew up with an abusive pwPD!   But it has a real advantage.

I think I can navigate this so that I'm only choosing to share my needs and feelings after she's shown insight into her own behaviour and that she's no longer in her current mental state.  Again, a boundary I can implement without her knowing, without me pointing it out, without her debating it.  I will need her to explain her sweeping cryptic statements more before I know how I want to handle things.

She does have a tendency to knee-jerk deny what she's doing but then reflect and later apologize.

This is also triggering me because I'm getting the sense I'm being punished for having boundaries.  I withdrew and was taking some time for myself, which she is currently doing now (and has done previously), but she guilt-trips and gaslights me for having done it.  Total double-standard.

This didn't bother me as much at first as it does now.  I quickly saw it for bullshit and it kind of rolled off my back.  Now, I don't know if I'm letting it get to my head or if I've just clued into how shitty and destructive her behaviour is.  I've also realized how much her energy was bringing me down.

It's really hard for me to not just cut her out, after seeing behaviour like this.  Maybe I should.  It's just a pattern I have...and I'm starting to worry I'll end up with no friends.  I do think of her as one of the good ones, although I've never been close enough to her before to experience her character flaws like this.  I think we are going to need more distance long term.

[DetachedAndEngaged]

I agree with Thru The Rain that it is important to focus on yourself first and worry about how to communicate what you you want to express later. Don't get caught up in rigidly conforming to regulations lest your communication be labeled "violent" because you aren't phrasing things the way Marshall Rosenberg said we are supposed to.

NVC is a communication model that I'm very familiar with and I've not found it makes any difference in how PDs relate. My uNPD dad used a lot of NVC ideas to gaslight and DARVO when I was growing up.

One of the problems is that it pathologizes "blame" categorically. But holding people responsible for their actions (which is what blame means in the best sense) is a healthy habit that victims of narcissistic abuse lack. Similarly, NVC says that judging is wrong (yes, that's a contradiction), when the real question is how to wisely and appropriately make judgements. We victims of narcissistic abuse have to learn to trust our interior senses of who and what is harming and exercise our judgement accordingly.

The distinction between feeling and judgement that NVC likes to draw in such black and white terms isn't accurate. The world is more messy, complex and nuanced than Mr. Rosenberg felt comfortable acknowledging.

But, my main intent isn't to focus on NVC and my criticisms of it.

One of the most helpful things anyone said to me when I was learning about PDs and coming to grips with how to deal with those people in my life was "You don't always have to be the better person."

You might try focusing on being honest. I find that healthy people can handle that and listen to the critical content of what I say even if the way I say it grates on their ears. In fact, when we are in conflict with someone, the most important things we need to communicate are not going to be fun, enjoyable or easy for them to hear, even if we follow the NVC rules to a T.

This doesn't mean we all get a pass to be a raging jerk, but perfection is always a goal unrealized.

[Wilderhearts]

I think I can relate in someways to your aversion to NVC, although I'm not averse to NVC itself.  When I've read statements by activists that I thought a uOCPD person I know would twist and use to gaslight, I immediately would get triggered and not want anything to do with that statement.  I even thought there must be something fundamentally wrong with those statements, seeing as they could be so easily warped by a pwPD, but would feel too upset to work it out.

Philosophical and methodological debates aside, NVC is a good option for me and my circumstances, as someone who dealt with explosive and dangerous PD rage as a child, and has always been afraid of expressing anger.  NVC is something that makes me feel secure that I am expressing my anger or disappointment in a way that is constructive and responsible, and is not about doing harm to others, or controlling their behaviour.

After my last post, I just kind of came to the conclusion that she and I both have weak boundaries, and without distance to compensate for it, it's too easy for boundaries to get blurred.  I mean I really think that it's her having boundary issues and I'm doing better than ever, but that's the story I'm going to go with if/when we reconnect, in the event that she's not in a good enough mental state to recognize how she's sabotaging her relationships or take ownership of her unhelpful/manipulative behaviour.  I think this is something I could eventually revisit with her, but at a time when we're not exhausted from surviving a global disaster.

[Wilderhearts]

So I woke up to a "thinking of you...hope you're well <3 <3" text this morning.  The first thing I thought was "yeah right you do."  I really just see this as an extension of her codependent manipulation.  It kind of puts me in a double-bind too, because she's already labelled me responding with the same amount of effort as she gives as "not reciprocating", but it's clear from my behaviour I'm not doing more.  So this feels like a test.

I'm so angry and resentful of her right now.

I haven't figured out quite what to say yet, but I am going to let her know that I also need more of a break and am not ready to reconnect.  I wouldn't pass up any help with no blame statements....

[DetachedAndEngaged]

What about trusting your sense that she's attempting to manipulate you? What about not responding to her text--just let it sit?

What about muting notifications from her until you feel like reconnecting again? Give yourself that break you need?

Silence is the absence of a statement, so it is inherently a no blame statement.

It is a virtue to know when you need to take time for yourself. You don't need to explain that to anyone. It is OK if someone doesn't like it--that doesn't mean you've done something wrong.

[Wilderhearts]

Alrighty, I did it, and I just need to say I'm proud of myself.  I acted in line with my values, I expressed a boundary respectfully, I prioritized my needs and didn't get dragged down into her pattern of unhealthy or passive aggressive communication.

I am GROWING y'all!  And in the direction that I consciously chose.



And now I am free to prioritize my self-care without any kind of guilt or resentment hanging over me.  Suddenly I have the energy to vacuum. 

[treesgrowslowly]

Nice work wilderhearts!

I appreciated what you said about how you found that you are doing better boundaries. It reminded me of when I first started asserting better boundaries with certain people. The weak boundaries they had sort of stood out more... the stronger my boundaries got.

The text you describe from her does not sound emotionally honest... IMHO. Sounds like an attempt to pull you in for even more confused exchanges with her.

People who meet you in the future will only know you as having these assertive boundaries. And those future  friendships will be yours to enjoy.

[Wilderhearts]

The text you describe from her does not sound emotionally honest... IMHO. Sounds like an attempt to pull you in for even more confused exchanges with her.

Definitely not.  I think it's a cry for love disguised as an expression of love.  It felt disingenuous.

People who meet you in the future will only know you as having these assertive boundaries. And those future  friendships will be yours to enjoy.

Yes...thank you for the reminder that practicing better boundaries now, challenging as it is, can make me more hopeful for the future

[DetachedAndEngaged]

Well done!

Life is so much easier with clear boundaries.