The reason for the boundary - emotional freedom!!

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi all,

I'm late to the May focus but I love it! Glad I found it today.

Week 1: boundaries are good for us. In my life, I have learned that when people want me to go somewhere with them, my boundaries are what I use to ensure I don't go to unsafe places with that person. Its sorta like the rule we are taught as kids re:stranger danger - never letting someone take us to a 2nd location.

I'm an adult, so all the 'unsafe' places people try to take me to, are emotional not physical places. And how do people attempt to take me on a ride I don't want to go on, or to a place that's going to be unsafe for me? DARVO. Good old DARVO. As soon as someone starts to DARVO, my boundaries kick in - to keep me safe. I do not go there with them.

Week 2: Why was it so hard to learn that? Because I didn't want to accept that there are a lot of people who want to take me to unsafe places. Who want to use DARVO to control me, manipulate me, gaslight me, abuse me psychologically.

The saying "hurt people hurt people" resonates with me.

People with unresolved trauma will do all sorts of things to other people. It is up to me to ensure I don't let a traumatized / PD person hurt me. Most of them don't even know they are doing it. 

But I couldn't get there until I accepted the truth. People want to feel safe, and if they have to run us over in order to feel safe, they will do it. They will take me to unsafe places if they have trauma or a PD or some other condition that enables them to run me over, or makes them feel entitled to run me over.

They are not like me. They are going to use DARVO to feel 'safe' and I do not do that. But they do. I don't have a PD, but they do. 

Accepting this, required radical acceptance, that a lot of people use DARVO because it is the best way to avoid accountability - right? So now when I see someone use DARVO, I do the same thing we tell little kids to do if someone ever tries to lure them into a vehicle: don't get in, don't go with them, and run away.

Even non-PD loved ones might use DARVO (because it is the only thing they know how to do when they don't feel safe). Before I had boundaries with those people, my recovery work was so hard! I kept going with them to unsafe places (i.e. gaslighting conversations) and wondering what had happened. 

Trees

[bloomie]

Thank you for this post, trees! Beautifully laid out.

In order to accept the truth of what we cannot change like you describe so well here:

People with unresolved trauma will do all sorts of things to other people. It is up to me to ensure I don't let a traumatized / PD person hurt me. Most of them don't even know they are doing it. 

But I couldn't get there until I accepted the truth. People want to feel safe, and if they have to run us over in order to feel safe, they will do it. They will take me to unsafe places if they have trauma or a PD or some other condition that enables them to run me over, or makes them feel entitled to run me over.

We have to be able to believe and trust the truth that is unfolding before our eyes. When we are born into a system that is never going to be safe, acceptance comes hard, and is destabilizing.

As we mature and become able, accepting the truth will set us free if we believe it (why the quote in my profile means so much to me). Painful as it is. And as the community here knows very well, it is excruciatingly painful and yet, in time the pathway to peace and healing.

[LemonLime]

Fabulous post, Trees.  And fabulous response, Bloomie.

Trees, I'm re-reading your post for the third time and letting the words just wash over me.  The truth of those words.  The hard truth.

"The are not like me."  That is SO right. SO right. 
And yes, the accepting of this truth is so difficult.  That's the stage I'm in now.  Fully, radically accepting these truths.  Because I do KNOW now that these are truths.  And that the truth will set me free.

I find this whole world and process a bit surreal.  Like.....wow, am I living in a parallel universe?
And without you all, surely I would be a big mess.
Thank you.

[LoverofPeace]

The May Mental Health Awareness Month is a great thing for people to be able to focus on the things we're dealing with for the sake of healing ourselves. Of course, it should be every day/month/year.

DARVO is such an evil thing to do to others, whether conscious or not. I know we're dealing with people who are emotionally stagnant, but I can't help but to feel their victims are left with holding so much for one human to have to bear. And please understand I know the post is in the interest of the victims; I'm just empathizing on what I feel about this subject in general.

Trees, it hit home with me when you mentioned how people with disorders can easily lead us into danger akin to 'stranger danger'. I have been faced with this predicament more times than I care to admit. And while I am proud that I have adamantly told that person 'H** no!' each time (you have to really put your foot down hard with them), they would still insist! In the end, I would stand my ground. But I am still somewhat scarred by it each time, because it also reminds me that I wasn't really loved by that person (whether friend, lover, or family member).

One example is that I had a friend I used to go jogging with along a pier. It was already getting dark this particular day, and I was ready to turn back to head home. But this friend wanted to continue running under an elevated part of a highway we were coming upon. Not only did I tell her, 'H** no!, I'm heading back', she kept insisting we run under there instead of realizing how dumb an idea that was. So, I held my ground and replied (after many attempts from her),'You can go if you want, I'm going back'.

Not only did I make a U-turn (and of course, she followed) that's when it started dawning on me that this 'friend' (10 years older than me, mind you), wasn't mentally/emotionally living in the real world. She is not a friend to me anymore, as she did other things that made me cuss her out and leave the friendship alone for good. While I wish I had been more patient with leaving her alone, I did become worn down from her not respecting my boundaries. I used to believe she wouldn't do that, but this is why it's important to take your time getting to know someone. I now think she is somewhere on that NPD scale.

Regardless of if she is or not, I advise to never let someone talk you into doing something that you know is not good for you. And Trees, even the physical danger still applies to a grown person. It's hard to admit but even grown, well-balanced people, do still cave into elder or peer pressure.

And sometimes, like now, I am faced with something that I am so tired figuring out (but still trying). It's something as complicated as family matters. Even after walking away, that is one of the groups that gets to suck you back in the easiest. Because issues like deaths, births, holidays, marriages, etc., etc. will pop up. And even if you say, 'No' to something concerning it, you eventually find yourself having to untangle yourself from that family member, or members, in some way. Yet again.

So, while I have been able to figure out the friendship/boundary thing (how close or far you want that person to be), and even the family/boundary (the same close/far thing), how to keep certain family members out of your life forever when you have these things come up beyond your control and it pulls you back in (even for a little while, when you never wanted to see that member(s) again?

My ultimate advice is to always take care of your mental health, even when it's during those peaceful times. Thus, that's why that's my own username.

P.S. To Lemonlime, thank you for this. Because, boy, do I feel like that nowadays:

I find this whole world and process a bit surreal.  Like.....wow, am I living in a parallel universe?

 

And thank God for God! 🙏🏻☮

[treesgrowslowly]

Thank you everyone for sharing!! It means so much.

Dr. Ramani talks about the loss of innocence after we've been through narc abuse, and that is something that they didn't talk about much back when I went NC. SO much more is understood now, about PD abuse and the scars it leaves us with!

LoverofPeace: thanks for sharing about that time where your 'friend' wanted to push you and you pushed back! It's hard right? Because we want to believe that people will respect us and our boundaries. There's a loss of something - for us - when we realize oh, this person isn't a good friend to me. When I was younger, I had no idea what to do with these people most of the time - the ones who cross our boundaries in these subtle ways.

It's very gaslighty isn't it? To make you look like your the one who has the problem, when the real problem is that they are being way too pushy.

LemonLime and Bloomie: thanks for adding all that you shared here. It IS hard to believe. I find it hard to remember in the moment. I have watched people start their DARVO with me, and it still takes me a day or so to realize that is what they did. Even after all this time of knowing about narc abuse.

Trees

[LoverofPeace]

Hi Trees,

It's very gaslighty isn't it? To make you look like your the one who has the problem, when the real problem is that they are being way too pushy.

Yes, indeed. Upon crossing my boundaries in a separate issue, this ex-friend tried using the 'You're too sensitive', line on me. At the time, I didn't know what gaslighting was. But I knew what she said wasn't cool because the feeling was that she was trying to reverse things on me. I simply replied, 'Okay, and you're being too insensitive. If I had to choose, I'd rather be too sensitive any day and time'. Wow, after that didn't work I am even realizing that the next thing she tried doing was to become the 'V' part of DARVO (after the 'A' with her gaslighting Attack). Because she started sounding like a victim, all sad and apologetic. But it was too late. It was the end for me.

I find it hard to remember in the moment. I have watched people start their DARVO with me, and it still takes me a day or so to realize that is what they did. Even after all this time of knowing about narc abuse.

I think that will always be the case for us all. Because for one, we're not busy scheming all day how to manipulate people. And two, don't forget that the fog will descend on the best of us. So, it can take time to clear it up. I'm going through that now with that family member. Man, I feel so good being able to deal with the friend/lover ex-narcs. But when it comes to those family members and ex-partners you had children with, it's so much harder because there's more things out of your control.

Thus, I believe that folks in these predicaments are left dealing with fogs, storms, human quakes, all that stuff.

The bright side is that it is going to turn us into masters of patience and peace.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi LoverofPeace,

Wow! Totally. I really appreciate what you shared. It is sobering for me to realize I'll always have this stuff going on, because as you said, we're not the ones scheming all day, which means we forgot that other people are!

It took me years to start saying what you said to your friend, "wow, I'd rather be 'too' sensitive than not sensitive enough". So true. I'd rather learn how to manage my empathy, rather than live life without empathy!!

Trees

[LoverofPeace]

Hello Trees,

Right! They are always scheming while we don't do that to others.

I remember standing on a hill in this park I live nearby many years ago and declaring in thought that even though I could manipulate others, that I choose not to be that type of person. Then I wondered why I would even be thinking like that? I realized over time it's because of the 'fleas' effect from growing up around narcs. And they are right in my nuclear FOO: Mom, Dad, and a sister who is on that scale. Perhaps God was testing me too, by having me stop on that hill and putting those thoughts in my mind. And I listened. Because anybody could choose to be that way. And I declared, 'No. That's not me'.

On the other hand, it's crazy because I used to think that being 'too sensitive' was something bad; thanks to my Nmom who used that a lot for a long time. That all changed once I blurted that out to the ex-friend, as that is when I realized there wasn't anything all wrong with it. Even though I am on the empath scale, it doesn't mean someone is weak. It's really the opposite because it gives you true strength, as I have quite a backbone. And as you said,

I'd rather learn how to manage my empathy, rather than live life without empathy!!

Happy Mother's Day to you and everyone. I might be meeting up with the Nsis tomorrow in honor of my mother's recent passing, so please wish me 'God' luck. 

I think I'll also be quietly celebrating Mental Health Awareness Month, as well!