You can read my post history for some of my backstory, but I wound up with another one. Or, at least, I think so.
In November of 2022 I met someone. They seemed good. We moved fast, but it seemed right.
Things got bad. I was attempting to go through trauma therapy, but discovered the house we shared put me on edge constantly... It wasn't an environment I could cope with.
She frames my withdrawal as neglect, my needing space as abusive. I tried to break up with her, but me trying to gray rock was apparently a trigger for her to the point she screamed at me and pushed me back into the depths of my PTSD. It took me a month the leave, and right before I left I fucked up, and this is why I am so lost.
We fought for essentially a month. Her point was that I was neglecting her and me breaking up with her, or attempting to do so, was traumatizing her. One night, I went out to get space. I wound up drinking. I came back, and we fought, I can't remember about what. I do remember attempting to self-harm, thinking that if I could just prove how bad I was hurting she would let me go and stop screaming at me.
Instead, she lunged for me to grab the object out of my hands, ripping it away. With her aggressively in my space, I was reliving the times my ex-wife had physically attacked me. I threw her to the floor and pinned her-- because when I had defended myself from my ex-wife, if I did not control her, she kept attacking. I didn't throw a punch, I didn't do anything other than protect myself from what my brain was convinced was imminent harm.
And now she tells me that I'm an abuser. She calls me by my father's name. She demands that I be present to help her heal from assaulting her. That I owe her. I feel so fucking trapped.
Am I the problem? I need help. I need someone to tell me straight. Someone unbiased to tell me if I've become the monster I've run from all these years.
You don't need to prove anything to her yo leave, just leave. My uNPDxw attacked me several times and me defending myself was called abusive. Don't drink when around her, that will only make things worse as you as you said dont remember what really happened, truts me it will be used against you and could end up badly if she calls the police.
Stay strong and free yourself. When out please start therapy.
Quote...She demands that I be present to help her heal from assaulting her. That I owe her. I feel so fucking trapped.
Am I the problem? I need help. I need someone to tell me straight. Someone unbiased to tell me if I've become the monster I've run from all these years.
Dear one, if you are a monster, the best and kindest thing you can do for both of you is to leave. I'm not at all clear how your presence will help her heal. If she feels she's been assaulted -and has openly said so- I don't understand how keeping you there will help anyone. That sounds like emotional hostage situation to me.
My guess is, you're not healed from your earlier relationship and your own stuff, and may have gotten into this/another relationship sooner than you should.
Quote from: wasted_tropics on January 02, 2024, 01:00:04 PMAnd now she tells me that I'm an abuser. She calls me by my father's name. She demands that I be present to help her heal from assaulting her. That I owe her. I feel so fucking trapped.
This is just about the most effed up logic I have ever heard, and between my PDmom and my PDmil, I hear a
lot of wackiness.
Like moglow said, even if you are the abuser, the best thing for her and you is to
get far away from each other. Actually, I'll simplify it. This relationship sounds completely dysfunctional and unhealthy by any definition, and regardless where the fault lies in that, the best thing for both of you is to
get far away from each other.
There's not a relationship expert on the planet that I could imagine giving the advice, "Are you in an abusive relationship? The only solution is to stay together so you can heal!"
She's using your guilt to try to manipulate you into staying. Get out before things deteriorate even further.
I am out. My therapist implored me to get out by any means. So I did, but she's found me and is using a threat of calling the cops to keep me tethered.
So ... let her call them. If she makes claims of abuse/assault, their first response will likely be that the two of you separate and that charges be filed. Probably mandate separation for a cool-off time. What they won't do is force you to stay there in a situation where she feels threatened. Anything but. me, I'd suggest you call that particular bluff and call it a day. Does that sound reasonable?
It sounds reasonable, but with literally over two decades of CPTSD buildup from repeated situations where escape was punished harshly... It's not easy. Not at all. It sounds reasonable AF. It makes sense. I even have a lawyer friend who I consulted with and assured me I'm safe. But I can feel my inner child SCERAMING that I'm not, and it takes so much work and effort to pull him out of the pilot's seat. I wish desperately that someone could just pluck her from my life, sit her down and tell her that what she's doing is wrong. I know it won't happen, I know there's no one coming to save the day, I know only I can fix it.
But every time I write out a text saying 'never contact me again', I freeze. I was so stuck in freezing that my therapist told me to get out by any means necessary. I was so stuck in freezing that I had to lie to stomach the idea of escaping, saying that I was checking into inpatient because I thought maybe that would make her realize how seriously in crisis I was.
But I'm still on the hook. Some part of me is afraid and some part of me has sympathy for her, because she WAS hurt, she WAS traumatized going into this, and all of her actions have been borne out of that, as have mine. But last night she said something. I've been doing a bit better job of standing up to her and I said flat out to quit treating me like her ex, who sexually assaulted her multiple times. Her response was that 'only you abandoned me'.
I need to start posting on here regularly for support but I'm literally terrified of her finding me. I vented in a support community on reddit and she found me, because, well, she has great analytical skills that she uses in terrifying ways. She's harassed friends of mine. Before all of this, I created content for TTRPGs. She found almost every single person I had a public relationship with through that venue and harassed them to try and get me to come home.
I know I'm in the right. I know this shakes out horribly for her, but my brain just won't accept that I'm safe.
I'm glad you're reaching out and thinking things through logically.
Yeah, I think you're not safe to post on Reddit. But you should be okay here as long as you don't have identifying info and as long as you have not accused her of having a personality disorder.
I definitely relate to wishing for a deus ex machina to just get me past the hard part. But I guess we just have to suit up and get it done. No calvary, as you said.
You can have sympathy, heck, it's a great thing to have. But she's hurting you and you cannot help her. It's the cold truth.
Quote from: wasted_tropics on January 22, 2024, 01:04:23 PMBut every time I write out a text saying 'never contact me again', I freeze... I'm still on the hook. Some part of me is afraid and some part of me has sympathy for her, because she WAS hurt, she WAS traumatized going into this, and all of her actions have been borne out of that, as have mine.
I know I'm in the right. I know this shakes out horribly for her, but my brain just won't accept that I'm safe.
You don't need to send that text. You can block her number, and you can do it right now. It has the advantage of not requiring her compliance. I am not saying you should do that: you are. I am only trying to support you in that resolve.
The sympathy thing I completely get. My MIL has been DEVASTATED by our no-contact decision. She hasn't seen her grandson in 8 years and may never do so again. She is truly hurt, and it was previous hurt in her life that likely made her into the person she is. I truly believe those facts MAY NOT CONTROL MY DECISION.
I'd like to share an old parable I use here. You are walking down the sidewalk with a friend, talking about your day and laughing together over some old memory. Suddenly you notice a white van careening across the road, crashing down the sidewalk: it is only a few car lengths away and doing 30. It doesn't matter does it, whether the driver is a terrorists bent on your destruction or an elderly man experiencing a medical emergency behind the wheel? Only one thing matters: unless you and your friend take immediate evasive action, you will predictably be injured.
It doesn't matter whether your ex has been hurt before, was hurt by you, or is hurting now. What matters is your assessment of what is next. Will you being together with her be a great and wonderful thing, or end in more pain? We don't know. We are just strangers with kind hearts and a bit of experience. You are the best judge.
If you decide that she ought not contact you via text, you have the absolute power -- on your own recognizance, right this moment -- to block her number, and her email, and every possible social media connection. You own this. You are in charge of your future. She absolutely is not in charge, though it is right and fine of you to weigh her interests in your decision. But it is your decision.
We cannot and ought not give any legal advice: please do consult an attorney if you have further concerns in that regard.
@Starboard Song-- Thank you. You posted that right as I was about to post this, and that was exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you so much. I deeply appreciate you. I needed to hear that. A lot.
---
The Hotline was useless. They sent me a bunch of defunct links.
The MOSAIC method scored a 7, which, tbh tracks. Every time I've tried to remove myself she has escalated. Last night I received pages and pages and pages of texts from her, basically saying she was entitled to my physical touch to help her heal from what happened, and when I told her that I couldn't because I was scared of her, she called me a monster and said that I must be so brave to put hands on her, despite her aggression being the trigger of the PTSD episode where that happened.
My landlord seems to be super cool. Her initial message indicated that she's not going to need documentation for me to break the lease(I mentioned my situation when moving in, I think she's taking that as proof), and even offered to find me the same rent in a sister property if possible. I'll be looking at other locations to move this week. I also contacted the officer I filed the complaint with, asking for a copy in case they do actually need that. I have just enough money scraped together to afford the cost of movers, and with how my head is, I don't think I can make this move on my own.
I know I need to make the complaint an actual report, even though the date of my report precedes any threats of hers. I also found out that the burden of proof for self-defense in my state is not beyond a shadow. It's something called burden of production. I just have to introduce the possibility of self-defense and then the burden goes to the prosecution to prove it was NOT self-defense. I'm 100% letting my mind go to the worst case here, but I have multiple texts saying I was scared of her, the police complaint, and then an absolute plethora of character witnesses who will say that I'm not a violent person, to include an ex, which I've heard helps your case a lot if an ex is willing to say that the claims against you in this department are wildly against your character.
So I guess plans for me:
1. Clarify exact needs to break lease
2. Get copy of complaint and written statement from therapist
3. View apartments and select the one closest to my support system that's the same price as now or less
4. Consult with lawyer again
5. Hire moving company
6. Move and block her on EVERYTHING
Only reason 6 is last is my anxiety will not, at this point, let me miss out on potential threats. I have a plethora of them already, but idk. Until I am actually physically from her reach, my anxiety won't let me not have more documentation. It's damaging to my mental health, but it also might save me.
QuoteLast night I received pages and pages and pages of texts from her, basically saying she was entitled to my physical touch to help her heal from what happened, and when I told her that I couldn't because I was scared of her, she called me a monster and said that I must be so brave to put hands on her, despite her aggression being the trigger of the PTSD episode where that happened.
so ... you aren't "entitled" [read: responsible for] protecting yourself? You aren't entitled, indeed obligated, to leave a situation that's apparently detrimental for both of you? I'm sorry for her hurt, but you're not there to heal her. That's not your job, just as hers isn't to heal you. I see where she has a horror of abandonment but at the same time she hasn't the self awareness to see her own role in it. I'm not placing "blame," but saying that we all have full responsibility for our own behavior. If whatever you're doing isn't working, seems to me the next most logical and realistic step is to change what you can where you can. You've chosen to leave a volatile situation despite her demands. To me, that seems reasonable when you've run out of other options.
You don't have to ask for her permission or compliance here, as mentioned above. I know you're scared [whether to leave or to stay], but consider too how scary these confrontations are, where you feel you have lost all control and have a need to somehow prove your pain. That's not normal loving relationship behavior, none of this sounds like that to me.
Side note: When it comes time to move, don't do it alone. Have a buddy or two or family member, someone there with you other than the movers. Confrontations are less likely to happen with outside witnesses.
Quote from: wasted_tropics on January 23, 2024, 12:51:41 PMSo I guess plans for me:
1. Clarify exact needs to break lease
2. Get copy of complaint and written statement from therapist
3. View apartments and select the one closest to my support system that's the same price as now or less
4. Consult with lawyer again
5. Hire moving company
6. Move and block her on EVERYTHING
Only reason 6 is last is my anxiety will not, at this point, let me miss out on potential threats. I have a plethora of them already, but idk. Until I am actually physically from her reach, my anxiety won't let me not have more documentation. It's damaging to my mental health, but it also might save me.
I was firing up the keyboard to say that #6 needed to be #1, but you provided the single good reason to not do it first. Please consult that attorney as soon as possible and include #6 as a topic: does the attorney see further value in allowing her to rant at your for potential "evidence"?
I am glad to see you processing like this. This is now your job. Every morning when you wake up, it is "What will I achieve towards peace today?" Hold yourself accountable.
Gonna try and journal in here every day to keep myself on track.
I haven't blocked her, Monday night was the last text I sent her, because she sent something very interesting in return. She was ranting and ranting about how much harm I had done to her, completely glossing over her aggression that trigger my need to defend myself, my need to run, etc. I was distressed af and could feel fawning starting to happen, and I said that since I couldn't offer her the comfort she demands, I should just turn myself in so she wouldn't be scared.
And then she said (paraphrased), 'no, don't do that. I need you to hold me.'
Which is in line with things she has said previously that my lawyer friend I talked to in December said would either completely negate her claims that I harmed her or even worse for her, be just far enough over the line to be constituted as blackmail. Obviously not looking for legal advice here.
This shit sucks, though. I was looking at a meme a friend sent me yesterday and smiled and I could feel the a subconscious thought surfacing that literally said "don't smile, that just makes the fall longer". My story is in bits and pieces in my post history but for so long... Literally a decade, I have been subjected to trauma without stop. Ironically my combat deployment was less traumatic than my regular life, and that wasn't because it was quiet. I literally haven't, since I left home, had longer than a week of true peace. And I realized that one of the problems with my brain now is that it sees happiness as something that's just going to be ruined and tries to make me experience it less, because yeah, it's right. The fall from happiness is greater.
But maybe it's almost done. I'm talking to my therapist today to get a statement, I'm going to put in the request for a copy of the report, and I'm going to file a new complaint with the same officer for her showing up to my place after verbally abusing me about a week ago.
Something I need to get through my head is that I need to not feel guilty for the things that happened. She has defined everything she has done as reactive and everything I have done as abusive, which is quite literally the opposite of the truth. Leading up to the physical altercation, she DID verbally abuse me for over a month straight once I initially tried to leave. She DID aggressively lunge towards me with unknown intent, and I DID respond in a way to control the situation physically without causing actual harm. Her initial lunge, I was ON THE FLOOR. I did not assault a person, I responded to an aggressor with a legally justifiable amount of force. I have kickboxed since I was 11 and I didn't throw a single strike despite that being what I'm primarily trained to do. When I realized that muscle memory had taken over, when I realized that reflexes had kicked in, I collapsed sobbing on the floor and she started screaming at me, which my therapist reminded me I have a 45 minute video of her screaming at me.
My THERAPIST told me to get out by any means necessary. Leaving a dangerous situation is not abuse.
I need to get it through my head that she is dangerous. She has literally said my consent doesn't matter.
wasted_tropics, I'm so sorry you're going through this, but am heartened by the fact that you are active in your self protection, and have a clear game plan to get yourself to a place of safety both physically and mentally. You're doing incredible work.
I think one of the hardest things about interactions with PD's is their use of our human emotions/responses against us. To meet their wants and needs. We begin to distrust ourselves, our motives and emotions, it may feel like we don't know ourselves. Maybe they are right in their assessment of us, we think. Why else would anyone continuously say these things if they weren't true?
Sometimes their incessant badgering feels like a rabid dog, and then when we call them on their bluff, like you did when you offered to turn yourself in, their demeanor or narrative change completely, as it's no longer helping them obtain their desired outcome.
And then we see how flippant their narratives, which are often incredibly painful for us the non-pd's to hear, and their nervous system rattling demeanor, really are. How false.
Fear Obligation Guilt, it seems like she is utilizing all three in her attempt to control you back into her life.
Stay strong, you deserve your safety.
Keep up the good work, you are on your way.
Update:
I made a little progress in my bravery. So I used to be content creator in a sphere that would absolutely dox me if I said so. When I left my ex, she harassed me and some very close friends I had made through that sphere to the point I deleted an account with over 50k followers. I still have an account that I use to keep up to date with things in that sphere as it is still a very big pillar of my life, but I hadn't blocked her on that one. In fact, I used it to keep an eye on what she was posting, which were usually 10 plus minute rants about how I was a monster for leaving her. I thought I was keeping myself safe by keeping tabs, but I would trigger spirals in myself every time I did, every time I let myself be gaslit by words she was throwing out into the public sphere, associating my online accounts with my real name and some very, very, very personal identifying information.
But yesterday I blocked it. I still haven't opened my old account back up, though I want to. I love teaching and storytelling, and that sphere enabled me to do so. But I did block her on my alt account and that made me feel a little safer, and weirdly a little braver. I know that I need to block her on my phone and email next, but every time I move to do so I can't. Baby steps.
I have the letter from my therapist, I have the police report, and I'm currently drafting my 30 day letter to my landlord who already has seemed very understanding, even offering to waive all fees of transferring me to a sister apartment community if they had availability near my support system. I sent in three rental applications today, going to turn in the letter tomorrow or Monday. Declaring my move-out date as the 29th of February. Did my budget, allocated funds, allowed for utilities, security deposit, etc etc etc.
I still can't get the idea of my ex trying to see if I'm home off my mind and so I'm still parking on the far end of the community and walking about a quarter mile to my building. Keeping curtains up at all times and lights off and staying at friends' houses overnight as often as possible, especially on the weekends.
I'm ready for this to be over, done. I've forced myself to relive the same pattern over and over again my entire life, since my first relationship when I was 16. I felt like I was beginning to make serious progress this time when I initially fled this ex. My best friend remarked he'd seen changes in me he'd been waiting a decade for. But she dragged me back and I feel so much wrong again in my soul.
I want to mend the wounds. I want to face my trauma and my pain and HEAL from it, not just manage it and cope with it. But I need to feel safe to be there. And this is the last thing I need to do to feel safe. I'm so ready to just REST.
It's a good update.
But damn, you are living a nightmare.
Update today:
Still can't bring myself to block her phone number. The justification in my head is that I'm "gathering evidence" when I already have enough to orove harassment and technically blackmail.
The fear in my head is her absolute tirade of harassment that has followed any time I have blocked her. She found EVERY account I had on any website ever. Her day job involves analysis so it makes sense that she could do that, but Reddit, multiple forums related to my hobbies, every since social media account I had, old accounts I had from fucking high school, and the absolute insane stress that caused... I'm not ready to confront that yet. I feel mentally more able to deal with texts and calls from one single number than potentially a dozen different ones.
According to my lawyer friend, I'm more than qualified for a peace order at least, and a restraining order in my state is barely half a step further than that. The reason I haven't gone down that road is I don't wish hard on her in any way, and I'm afraid of both her capacity to escalate and her capacity to win. Put simply my net worth is... 2k right now? And hers is multiple six figures. If she wanted to hire the best lawyer in the region, she absolutely could afford it.
But. I blocked her. At the carrier level. And email. So another baby step.
My landlord is now giving me grief about the move out, so I have to actually sit down and say, no, per Code X, I can do this. Just another step.
I'm so tired.
wasted_tropics,
I feel you. I do. I totally savvy the wanting to rest. It will be soon. Right now you keep taking the baby steps. it is a grind yet at the same time by taking action to protect yourself you are telling yourself that you are worthy of it.
Keep on keeping on! you got this. I know it doesn't feel like it right now. I felt the same way. it does get better. one day you'll pull up short realizing just how much better it is. Still happens to me on the regular. ;)
Wishing you all the best
Quote from: wasted_tropics on February 02, 2024, 03:17:18 PMI blocked her. At the carrier level. And email. So another baby step.
That's no baby step. It took enormous courage and is likely to provide immediate, significant rewards. You are correct that involving courts is an escalation, and can be damaging to our peace. It is smart to pause and balance the risk vs. reward before proceeding.
We have people here -- or who moved on in peace -- who arrived feeling very out of control. You are on a good trajectory: this is hard stuff. It is ACTUALLY hard. So go easy on yourself and know that you are doing big, challenging stuff.
Be good. Be strong.
:yeahthat:
Another email from another account, saying that I need to help. That I'm not allowed to abuse women.
I feel the panic in my chest once again, but I blocked the new account. I know how this goes.
When we met, I didn't have a problem with her being a feminist-- I mean, I'm one. I think there are absolutely systems of oppression in place in this country. I was in the military. I have witnessed actual rape culture first hand. We have problems and we need to fix them. But her rhetoric was always more than that. On more than one occasion she made a joke about putting all men into re-education camps.
I humored her. She'd been through a lot. A lot of men suck. I'm a male victim and I'm willing to bet the numbers of abusers skew towards men if we could get the real numbers. I'd wager something like 55-60%. I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion of social science. The point is that she would lump all men into one category. Potential abusers and rapists. And now I see myself lumped in there in her rhetoric. She said multiple times in response me communicating my fear that 'at least I had the privilege of being able to protect myself'.
And you know what? When it's behind closed doors, it's not a privilege. It's a burden. I have done martial arts my whole life. I know striking, grappling, bladed weapons, blunt weapons, and guns. I've fought inside a ring, and I've defended myself against people attacking me in both a combat and civilian setting. You know what alllllll that means when there's no cameras, no witnesses, no anything? If you make the slightest mistake out of fear, you're fucked. There is a unique powerlessness in knowing that there is almost no narrative after an altercation where you are the good guy. The raw... freeze that introduces to your mind, knowing you have the power in your own hands to stop what's happening to you, but knowing it will probably be worse if you do. I hoped my ex-wife would successfully stab me, because then at least I'd have defensive wounds. I hoped the same with the ex. Hit me. Give me a black eye. SOMETHING. Sucker punch me so my goddamn muscle memory won't move my head out of the way, because god forbid the muscle memory to hit back kicks in.
I hate feeling guilty, for feeling afraid because I have the power to protect myself. I hate it.
I hear what you're saying.
But in addition to what user wrote, it comes down to exactly the same thing for every one of us. If we find we are in a situation where violence is a concern, we all have to get the hell out of Dodge.
My own head is kind of messed up from years of crazy, but I intellectually know that sane relationships exist. Walking a tightrope is not a requirement of a decent relationship.
So don't put your focus on how to handle the tightrope (in the future). Just get out if you realize there is one.
Back into some bad feelings, I suppose. She found my bluesky account. Hadn't done anything with it, but posted a tirade saying I assaulted her, abused her, and abandoned her, and how could I not make things right? Followed by harassing one of my friends who is active on there for their profession.
I feel the familiar swirl of raw terror in my chest. A raging whirlpool. A maelstrom roaring: "How can things be okay? How are they going to be okay? This is the end!"
All because of one. Damn. Message.
I can feel the wounds that were closing starting to rip, scabs bursting again. I didn't want out of this through a fight. It had been what... three weeks since she last contacted me? Maybe more. I was feeling like I had finally come out of stormy seas. And here they are getting choppy again. And the funny thing is, the HILARIOUS thing is, that so much went right this weekend. I got approved for an apartment and because they knew my situation they waived the first ENTIRE MONTH of rent. Just fucking waived it. I had a good weekend with friends, with the girl I'm seeing... I... The voice, the voice in the back of my skull saying 'this is when she strikes', was right.
I'm gonna get a little esoteric here, but a friend of mine who I... engage in spiritual practice with, we had identified something in both of our lives, who's purpose was to steal joy, to steal fire, to smother it. This is that, that thing crawling back towards a bright flame. I felt so. Fucking. Happy. This weekend. So safe, so secure, so ready to move forward into the 2024 that I envisioned for myself. And then of course that's when she attacks.
Having healing wounds ripped back open is the worst.
Hey, you're asking for a sanity check.
"The girl I'm seeing."
We would be committing malpractice not to say something.
Quote from: square on February 18, 2024, 04:44:04 PMHaving healing wounds ripped back open is the worst.
Hey, you're asking for a sanity check.
"The girl I'm seeing."
We would be committing malpractice not to say something.
:yeahthat:
"The girl I'm seeing."
That sounds very dangerous, I am almost 2 years out and haven't looked at another girl/woman/lady since. I need to heal properly before even considering it, I am getting there I really am but please take care my friend and don't get yourself into another relationship with a PD and certainly not before really being out of the last.