Teens and alienation (#2)

[BillyBarou]

I have 13YO and 15YO boys..   The 13YO got picked up by my BPDexW one morning during my parenting time for no good reason and without any permission (I chased them out of the subdivision, but she ran to a police officer that told me that the exW was just giving him a "ride" and he'd be back... he never came back) and he has not been back in about 2.5 months against our possession orders;   He seemed to be addicted to his gaming system and his grades were dropping, so I took his console away where as the BPDexW got him a new gaming system for Christmas.   I see my son only at school events and on one other occasion, but he will barely talk to me now.  Other than taking his gaming console, I can think of no logical reason why he is upset.   He seems to be going through a rough time.  My 15YO is tired of the drama with his mom and wants to live with me full time.    The last time I filed for enforcement for orders, it cost me $15K but she got probation for 2 years & I had make up time with the kids.. but they were much younger.    I really don't know if I should pursue another enforcement or just allow this to run its course because it's a pre-teen that's basically making his own decisions... I'm still holding onto hope that he just figures it out on his own, but I am getting worried for him because it's going on a long time now.   Any thoughts appreciated.

[escapingman]

Hi BillyBarou and welcome to the forum. I feel for you and I understand exactly what you are going through, I have 2 girls in the same age bracket. Firstly, I wouldn't waste any more money on the courts, they are absolutely useless and in my experience completely clueless. But, the tricky bit is if you have no access at all to your boy. I got full custody of one of my girls, and uNPDxw got full custody of the other girl. I downed tools about a year ago and "gave up" chasing my daughter that refused to see me (alienated). However, playing the long game is starting to pay off and I am not seeing her and last time we had a really nice time. I am aware of that there must be some reason or motive that she is now allowed to see me, I guess uNPDxw is after money but that's just a guess.

To your other problem, I am facing the same, if I try to set out some rules with my daughter living with me she just don't handle it very well. If I for example ask her to tidy her stuff away from the living room she can push that to such an extreme that she in the end call her mum crying and demonising me (and get sympathy*). If I were to confiscate her phone as in your case the gaming console, she would leave the house and move in with her mum (temporary until she had enough). To point is, it is IMPOSSIBLE to teach kids right from wrong when there is someone in the background ready to sabotage anything you do.

The end sum is that I am letting both girls deal with their mum and have whatever relationship they want with her, I can't fight their "wars" as it only makes me ill and also fail. What I do instead is living my best life, don't judge them and play the long game.

Good luck with whatever you chose to do and I hope you get back with your boy as soon as possible.

[BillyBarou]

Thanks for the message.  The "long game" paid off with the older boy.  I was thinking that you may want to consider adjusting some consequences.. Taking a phone away etc. can be isolating for a teen these days.  I rather find an activity or privilege that they enjoy and we do that when school assignments are done, chores are done etc.  Rather than a punishment it's more of a positive reinforcement.    There are certain things that are non-negotiables.. but other things, you can let go and give some leeway given the circumstances.  Teens also need to see the logic and justice in what you are doing.. for example, taking away a phone for something that is completely unrelated to the phone, I would not do rather find a consequence that naturally goes with what they are doing.  For example, I give rides to kids that are respectful.  I don't do favors for kids that are disrespectful and demanding.    School work is your job..  so we only get paid when we do our jobs.. so getting money to go out with friends etc.. is tied to them completing their responsibilities.    I have found that they don't get angry with consequences when they understand the logic behind it.

My younger one is still refusing to even communicate with me and for seemingly no apparent reason.    At the same time, my exBPW has also cut off communication... also for no apparent reason.  My gut feel is that something triggered her BPD and led to the sudden alienation.  I am still looking into the options.. but of course, the best option seems to be diplomacy with my teen.. however, this change in his behavior is really concerning to me.  I am getting concerned for him  (not so much his physical safety, but his emotional well being which could lead to other things)

[atticusfinch]

BillyBarou,

Have you ever read Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak? He talks about this kind of dilemma and others that go along with alienation. I think it is pretty common for parents in our position to struggle to know how to discipline their kids when a narcissistic ex is on the other end. My ex has no conscience (no fault of his own, necessarily, just part of NPD) and doesn't care about how his actions affect our kids, and uses our kids to try to hurt me, which means that my kids also struggle with similar issues. It is hard for me to enforce rules at my house because my ex, too, will show up on my doorstep to "comfort" a child if I try to have a set bedtime or turn off screens. He fills them full of these ideas about their "rights" and how they should get to "choose" everything they want to do, and tells them to "stand up to me"--but his idea of their rights is that they have no rules at my house. Then, when they are inevitably late to school or something, because they don't respect my authority, he acts like the most concerned parent in the world and portrays me as a neglectful mother.

It is SO hard co-parenting with someone like this.

I could be wrong, but I think that Warshak addresses a problem like this in his book. He basically has the parent focus on loving the child and spending positive time together and trying really hard not to react to negative behaviors caused by the alienation, because sometimes our reactions unwittingly reinforce what the other parent has been telling them about us (that we are the problem). I don't mean to make it sound like you were over-reacting--your response seems reasonable considering the situation--but I do think that sometimes when alienation is involved, the normal common-sense rules of parenting become a little more fraught. I don't know if it is the right decision or not, but sometimes I err on the side of being a little too lenient so that I can keep a relationship with my kids.

[atticusfinch]

Billy,

Also, have you thought about just having a police officer show up at ex's house to enforce the existing order? I apologize if I'm wrong, but I had heard this was an option from someone at some point, and though I've never had to do it, I've had it filed away in case I ever needed to do it.