I'm back and I can't believe it.

[Jsinjin]

I tried to be nice.   I tried to live and it's gotten worse.  The mean violent behavior is worse than it ever has been.  I tried being a husband.  I tried to live and invite the hoarding.  It's impacting me.   My office which was the last place I had now has piles of stuff I'm not allowed to touch or more.   She has begun to get direct with her statements to me, "do not dare take down the Christmas tree and do not ask when it will be taken down, I don't know when I will get to it and it could be a while but I don't want you to take it down or to ask me, do you understand?".  I'm not allowed to vacuum for fear something gets sucked up and missed.   I'm not allowed to file papers for fear of losing something.   We haven't done income taxes (just waiver after waiver filed with our accountants) for two years.   Her fear of imperfection and anger is overwhelming.  I am at a point that I can't take on anymore stress.   I live with this elevated sense of anxiousness and I don't want to have any crucial conversations, I don't want to be stuck like this, I don't want to deal with this mess anymore.   But I don't want to get in angry conversations, I don't want more paperwork, I can't take anymore than I'm already doing.

[square]

I'm so sorry to hear it.

I really understand that. I really understand not wanting to set one's spouse off. And it won't change anything anyway, that's the real bottom line. You could step up and face the wrath but then what? Nothing.

I thought you had kind of moved out? Ish?

[Jsinjin]

I had decided to accept things and try to work with them

[Poison Ivy]

It seems as though your wife will set herself off, whether or not you're living with her. If you can see a way to leave and take the children with you, I highly recommend that you do so.

[JustKeepTrying]

jsinjin,

I am so sorry to hear it has gotten worse.  I too remember you were ready to move on.  It is frightening, disheartening, frustrating, and all of that when the person you committed your life to spins out.  That crazymaking behavior is tiring and very hard to tolerate.

Two months ago I cleaned out the family home of 28 years.  Lawn and leaf size bags of garbage - literal maggoty garbage.  On the last day, I found my xOCPDh going through those very same bags in case there was something I bagged he might need.  When the house finally closed and the last of the legal ties was severed - my soul felt a soar of happiness and at the same time a real sharp sadness.  I tried so hard - all the tools - therapy - drugs - and nothing helped.  He devolved and became violent in the end. 

You are important.  You deserve more and you are worth it.

[notrightinthehead]

I was told in a women's shelter that on average victims of abuse leave their abusers seven times before they finally stay away.  You have many times to go. Glad you are back!

[SonofThunder]

Hello Jsinjin, 

Im so sorry you are experiencing the worsening of behaviors from your wife, but so glad you joined us again here at Out of the FOG, where you may divulge to us, who empathize with you. You are not alone! 

My mainly uBPD/NPDw has some traits of PPD and OCPD as well.  I have found that one of the reasons i dislike the end of November through  January is because my wife's traits are amplified by the holiday seasons and all the lengthy to-do lists she piles up this time of year.  At the same time, in contrast, my focused mind is on end-of-year, very real business matters (I'm self-employed) that in January, set in motion toward tax deadlines in the first quarter and all the melding of business and personal tax gathering/reporting. 

My uPDw hates my required focus on these matters and attempts, every year, to have me join her in her created holiday rat-race, and her silent-treatment and discard traits deepen because I refuse to engage.  I am on the 'naughty list' every season and treated that way by a woman dressed in a holiday sweater and Mrs. Santa hat.  She purposefully, in a protest silent-treatment way, will not be of any records-providing assistance to me in the new year, regarding tax related spending over the past year, as a form of punishment.  Such a contrast of experiences. 

In the mix of all this, is car-loads of holiday decor that she desires to showcase and in the 50% rule and 51% rule, i assist with the retrieval and return of these items, but do not assist with decor up or down, other than the Christmas tree.  We have a large rented climate-controlled storage space that is filled with nothing but highly organized decor for the variety of seasons throughout the year.  Back and forth....wash, rinse, repeat.

In my opinion, what her mind assumes, is what others are expecting of her and that she must perform over and beyond anyone's expectations every year, to earn her holiday self-trophies. If others do not provide those desired comment-trophies, my wife will say things such as "im not going through this ever again!!"  and "people just dont have a clue!...they just dont appreciate all i do!!"  There are zero people in reality, who have any expectations of her for the holiday period.  They have their own lives to deal with, but imo, in her mind, she is the holiday glue that holds everyone's season together.   

When the season is over, she spirals into a frenzied type of depression as she faces the huge task of returning the home to its normal state and trucking the carloads back to storage, followed by the remainder of the cold winter with no major holiday's ahead. 

Does your wife seem to have a seasonal cycle as part of her PD as well, where you experience her traits in an amplified state? 

SoT

[Jsinjin]

SOT

Mine is kind of the opposite of that with regard to showcasing to the world.   Mine believes that anything done for the purposes of appearance not only doesn't matter, the very act of cleaning when guests come should not be performed because it is "just for show".   She gets angry when I clean toilets or vacuum because a family member is coming to stay because "that's just showing off".   With regard to holiday stufff for us, we (me and the kids) want to put up a tree and decorate it.   My wife (their mom) is ok Witt the act of purchasing a tree.   But there is not really a way to put it up because of the "wrong" things that could be done.   There are no defined rules on how many inches to cut off the bottom of the stump, how long to let it sit in a bucket of water, what side to turn it and where to put it, how the lights have gone on, whether the breakable ornaments should be on heavier branches.   Often she takes apart what is done to "redo it" but then runs out of time and we have a tree that's not ever done for Christmas come and gone.   She is also not just afraid but angry petrified that an ornament is left on it for disposal which is why no one is allowed to take it down but her.   It's sitting right now in the corner of my office completely decorated.   

My spouse is absolutely afraid of anything being done period without it being "correct".   We haven't filed taxes (I file exemptions) for two years because my company changed FSA providers and some receipt documentation was lost in 2020 and she is absolutely positive that until we have that documentation (which is probably impossible to get) something will be wrong in the FSA exemption.   Note this doesn't pertain to the actual numbers in the financial documents, these are receipts that were uploaded that we simply don't have and her fear is that even though the IRS documents say "XYZ dollars of before tax medical costs" we don't have the actual receipts so we can't file.

It's even bigger than that.   Four years ago a giant limb fell off a tree behind our house.   It crashed through the porch roof.   There is a three foot hole in the porch roof.   I had the adjuster come out, he wrote stuff down and said what they would cover and then said call a roofer and have them contact us.   I finally gave up after about 10 roofers and her fear of what could be wrong.   We still have a hole in the roof and the boards are rotting.

I have incomes that give us a paid off McMansion in surburbia, no credit card debt, normal health insurance and easy life and I'm not even allowed to mow the lawn because of fear of running over potential wildflowers and forget about a lawn service.   I was screamed at for days when I did that one to save me time.  I have to wait for her to go out of town to take my own old clothes either to a dumpster somewhere else or to the local Goodwill charity because either "they might still be good" or "we can use them as rags". On that issue we have in the garage where my single toy-roadster car-should sit but is instead out in the driveway, at least 6 large black plastic trash bags filled with rags in case we need them of any article of clothing.   I used to work in finance and have suits and shirts and ties from the early 2000s and I now work in computers for companies that wear t shirts and no one wears ties anymore and besides they don't fit me now and I can't get rid of old dress shirts, slacks or ties because "I might need them"

If it was an argument it would be fine.   I'm ok with idiosyncratic stuff; everyone has their tics.   This is a guarantee that wasting a twist tie that got swept up with the broom can be a violent rage of anger that we all have to tiptoe around.

[Poison Ivy]

IMO, you and other people in similar situations are not required to continue living with spouses who have serious mental illnesses that endanger themselves and others and who are refusing treatment for the mental illness.

[square]

You're not crazy, Jainjin, that is just off the charts disordered. She is petrified of action but not at all worried about the grave risks of inaction - tax problems, rotting porch roof, Christmas tree that will eventually be a real fire hazard, relationships destroyed, house destroyed, dreams deferred, and so on.

The dysfunction is stunning and it's not you. It's also stunning how she can't see it at all - not just a personality quirk but full on mental illness.

[SonofThunder]

Jsinjin,

Thank you for the explanation and very different traits of our spouses.  Im sorry that for now, you and the children live in the conditions in which you describe.  Again glad to see you back here where we together have full freedom to vent and fellowship among others who experience very frustrating living conditions and relationships. 

With what you described and the increasing difficulty in which you find your current situation, have you been brainstorming or finalized any different plans for yourself and children vs what you may have had decided in the past?

My wishes of finding some peace and comfort for you and the kids in the new year,

SoT

[Kat54]

I'm so sorry to see you back Jsinjin and things are worse and the terrible living conditions. Though glad you can reach out to this board.

My only advice is try to seek therapy as it can maybe help you with moving on and at the least dealing with your wife day to day. From what you describe she has a serious hoarding issue and other stuff like extreme anxiety. And Your situation is clearly really bad for you and your kids.
I can only go by my experience of leaving my ex. I was absolutely terrified, but my therapist helped me immensely put things in perspective and after seeing her for two years I was able to pull the plug.

This is very unhealthy for all of you, including your wife. I hope and pray that good things come your way for 2022.

[tragedy or hope]

jsinjin,

The paperwork and tax issues I can understand. Tax issue with a pd spouse brings up so many frustrations that make you feel vulnerable for yourself your business and your family.

For years I "held my breathe" as my spouse insisted he knew what he was doing financially. At one point during the 2008 financial crisis, I found we owed a considerable amount of money as he had made decisions based on what he needed to keep running a business that could not sustain itself. I only got information that was meant for me to know. I ran the home finances which were also affected by his business decisions. And my name was also on the business.

We had to cash in some retirement funds to be able to pay off a bill I did not know we had. I didn't bother to get angry. I guess I was not surprised. They can put us in some very compromising positions without our awareness.

My spouse recently passed and I have been on this forum for maybe a couple of years. I choose to stay with my unpdh because I am older and I did not want to live poorer or create problems for myself I just did not want to cope with.

I knew there was an issue long ago. Abusive people do not change, neither do they repent.
what I did not realize when I was younger is that I had so many options. Leaving is not divorcing if you are concerned for your children etc.

Leaving is a reprieve I wish I had taken about 30 years ago, when I had the courage and began the process only to cancel and come back. I say this because no one could have told me how much better I would feel to be away from the source of my focus. Yes, he became my focus because they get into your mind and soul.

Nothing is wrong with changing your mind. If you leave for 3 months to see how you feel and after that and decide to go back that is your prerogative. My suffering had to do with me
I was the target. I just did or could not understand they do not change.

I honor his life because I believe he was made in the image of God. He also had many fine qualities and served his country in an unpopular "war."
However, not being able to honor my being and my soul should have been enough for me to get out.

I want to be an encouragement. I can identify with many of your feelings. I think if had "parented" myself during those times I NEVER would have allowed him to treat me the ways he had to treat a target.

You and your children are precious and valuable people. Given only one life, is this how you want to pass through this world with your children? They see and know conflict even if we think we are hiding it.

Believe in yourself first. Your pd is undermining your soul. From my experience, they want nothing more than for YOU to disappear and believe their every thought as yours. Do you?

Glad you are back here finding support.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

Given only one life, is this how you want to pass through this world with your children? They see and know conflict even if we think we are hiding it.


That above was it for me - my best friend was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer (she's only 38) and as my dad is approaching the end of his life - it hit me - we have one life on this earth.  Live it the best way you can and for me I wanted a peaceful life.  Which didn't include my husband.  And, us being together was not good for our teenage son.

We all have different paths, decisions, etc.... do you the best way you can.  I wish I had this revelation a few years back.   I had to take the time to make my own decision.  So, here I am, living with him while the divorce is proceeding but I already feel so much better.