Realisations since NC

[Hilltop]

I found out recently that my sister has moved near me after she unexpectedly reached out.  However I am recently NC with parents.

I just realised that when my mother texted me months ago asking me about hotels in the area, I had assumed that was to visit me as they would travel to visit sister further up north every now and again and so I thought they may stop by on their drive through to visit my sister.  Now I know sister is living here the enquiry regarding hotels was because their thoughts were they were going to visit her.  They had not enquired about hotels before that and so it tells me where their thoughts were on visiting me, they didn't plan on it.  They only enquired about hotels when they had a reason to, reason being visit sister.

Now another realisation that parents knew she was living here and didn't tell me although they could tell me about her getting a divorce.  This typical BS of my parents where my mother withholds important information such as the death of family friends but will give other random information such as the death of a neighbour up the street.  She only told me about the divorce as she wanted some advice.  It's a thing with my mother to withhold information from me, I think it's a normal conversation to say hey your sister has moved there, considering she mentions them in other random news.  It's information I would be interested in knowing that she withholds or regarding people she knows I am interested in. Games, games, games.

I am so glad I am NC with parents but honestly whereas I thought it may be good being able to have a chance at a sibling relationship I am having doubts. I know it's separate but honestly this place was my safe haven and now with sister here, parent may visit her and be intruding into my space when previously they wouldn't come here.

I guess I have a sense of being played like a pawn in a chess game.  Part of me wishes I had escaped but suddenly they all feel far too close.  I felt safe here, now I feel unsure.  I'll see how it goes, I am going to see sister for coffee and it will be a casual thing however it does feel like one more stupid chess game move. 

I am so glad I am NC with parents and their silly games.  Mother was so dismissive of me, she showed no interest in visiting me and when asked for my opinion on where to stay and where are the nicest areas, she didn't have any prior intention of visiting me when it was only me living here. So she simply used me for information.

I unblocked her around my birthday, curiosity and of course there was a gushing text message.  I deleted it and reblocked her. Even though she hasn't bothered to send any birthday presents last couple of years, this year she is sending one apparently.  It is so obvious and  pathetic.  She could have just apologised but no, a gushy text and some rando present is what she thinks is needed to get her back in favour. The gushy part of the text was just some gif she had uploaded, so not even her own words or effort, just find some poem and upload  . I mean a gif is all that's needed if your child says they no longer want contact. Her text was just saying she sent a present, nice after asking for space and no contact, funny how they force that extra contact on you when you don't want it, like she didn't bother with a present last couple of years and before that was just giving cash so no thought or effort at all, but is now suddenly interested in sending a present when she knows it's not wanted or more likely has to show everyone the effort she is making, ugh.  This is probably more being able to tell everyone, look at the effort I make, poor me.  Even though she always sent presents to my sister she would routinely just give me cash in a card and eventually I said, lets not bother there is no effort in this but in her PD brain somehow that was showing some sort of effort, couldn't even be bothered buying a gift card, just throw some cash in there and then she would drive to my house and put it in my mailbox, not even ring the door bell, just dump it and run.  And she thought that was normal behaviour for a mother, then she wouldn't even ring me on my birthday just text happy birthday. When I look back now it is pitiful.  Just the bare minimum of effort given.  She would go out routinely with friends for coffee but not me, I just had to visit them at their house and drink instant coffee, last time I took them out for mums birthday my father actually made a comment that he was happy I paid and they didn't need to pay anything for being there.  No effort, their disdain was blatantly obvious.

It's funny once the rose coloured glasses come off, it is all so obvious.  I can't see NC ending.  There is nothing there to go back to.

[Srcyu]

Your words right there at the end - "nothing to go back for" echo mine. No contact happened because there was nothing there worth staying for either.

Contact with your sister can probably never be separate from the parents.
She will report back to them every single thing that you do and say. The no contact with your parents is actually weakened by speaking to her because she is such a strong link to them.
Some people manage to make it work but seeing her often could tighten the net that is already starting to fall down on your safe haven. It's so annoying and typical that she has followed you. Meeting somewhere neutral is absolutely the best choice.

These types of parents can be so typical in their behaviour. They confide in the preferred child and hold stuff back from the other. Mine would hand over important personal items to her favourites when a grandparent died. Yours truly received nothing.
It does all fall into place like you said and most of it is breathtaking.

[Hilltop]

Hey Blackcat I will add that the reasons for my sister living here are completely random, it's really nothing to do with me, it's really just how it happened due to other circumstances.  Her contacting me now I'm not sure.

My sister will most likely report everything back however as we aren't close the catch up will be casual.  I will meet her somewhere neutral.  I am hoping to move on from the parents and reach a point where I live my life normally and who cares what info they get.  I guess I don't have a desperate feeling of needing to belong to the family anymore but I also want to be open and see how things go.  From reading on here though, these types of families don't let you go they just reel you in to keep the silliness going so that is in the back of my mind. 

I'm sorry you have had that sort of behaviour as well.  My main goal is to be enjoying life, comfortable in my own skin and move on completely from being worried about their nonsense.

[moglow]

I'm just going to say, your sister may want to see you, for you. No games, no illusions, just reconnecting. And her move there may have been thought out for same reasons. Please try and not hurt yourself with overthinking it, just accept as it comes and back up if you need to. I'm hoping you surprise yourselves and find friendship.

As for the parents ... I can absofuckinglutely see md doing that, not mentioning sibling is now living nearby while obvs making plans to visit her. Divide and conquer, don't ya know. If y'all are kept apart you can't compare notes, she isn't confronted with her shit.

[Hilltop]

Thanks Moglow, I am over thinking it.  That's why I am giving myself a week or two before we meet up so I relax a bit, lol. I do want to be in a place of being open and just see what happens.  I guess I am nervous due to the history and of being disappointed.

Yep the games the parents play ugh. Yeah they will come to see her at some point and as for divide and conquer, I don't really want to talk about them, I really want to move on and either find as you say friendship based on our lives now or as you say back up. 

I have for a long time tried to hide who I am around my parents and lately I am re-thinking that. Why do I hide who I am? So they don't mock me, so they can't gossip?  Is it that I felt unworthy due to that mocking so I am trying to protect myself?  As for information if that is more important to them than an actual relationship I honestly feel sorry for them.  I guess I am coming to the realisation that if they want to mock me that is a problem in them.  If they don't like me again a problem in them.  Their opinion of me doesn't make it fact despite the fact that they raised me to feel unworthy and defective.  The only person who needs to feel ok and worthy is me.

I have spent so many years hearing their insults and being hurt, feeling shame, having it hit at the core of me, thinking I was defective. I am done with that. I plan on doing the things I love, enjoying the hobbies I love, being with people I love. I have grieved over the past couple of decades and I am done, I want to move on.

I can lessen information going to my parents but I can't stop information getting to my parents as they talk with my in-laws, a friends mother lives near them and so information there gets passed on, it's normal for people to say oh so and so is going on a holiday, oh bad luck about that car accident, it's too hard to stop everything.  I am now at the point of who cares.  Why would I feel shame about my life or who I am, there is nothing to be shamed by, it's time for this programming by my parents to end.

These NPD types are simply about themselves, they don't have the empathy to see others and so there is nothing left to say to them or to expect to change in them.  If they are going to do and be what and who they are then it's time for me to be what and who I am, not hide away or be scared.  I plan on living my life openly now, free, finally free.

[treesgrowslowly]

Well said Hilltop! They are who they are.

I suspect that as time goes on, you will continue to clearly see their disorder for what it is, over and over, and see that their distorted view of you, is part of their disorder. And that this disorder is not something you can change or manage. Even if you wanted to.

What they told you about yourself when you were younger was impactful because parents did have a lot of power over us when we were young. But once we are adults we can see it for what it was, as you said, you now see how you can live free of their distorted views of you.

One of the things I learned from Lindsay Gibson's book about Emotionally Immature people (EIPs) is that these are people who can have surface friendships with people. So then your in-laws and other people in your life may carry on being friends with them - if a surface friendship suits them. Like you said, they can trade information that is all very superficial, about whatever goings on they want to chatter about. And of course, you won't need to care what it is they chatter about, you'll be busy living your own life.

Meanwhile, you are going to live with the freedom from their manipulations. You are not defective. They couldn't see you for who you are. But you can see yourself for who you are. Freedom! Good for your Hilltop!

Trees

[Hilltop]

Yep Trees so true.  It's funny I couldn't see the disorder for all those years but with some distance the patterns become  more and more obvious. Because of that it isn't really hurtful anymore but interesting to see it play out.  It now rests more with them.

Only thing at the moment is the lack of trust I feel for my sister.  This is what they do though with their actions, sow distrust and division.  At the moment I don't really know how things will go with my sister but all I can do is go along and see.  I am trying to keep the heart open rather than closed.    From reading here I don't want to get my hopes up but my sister has been living away for a number of years and so we'll see.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Hilltop,

As we know, trust is built over time. It sounds like you are open to seeing if some trust can develop with her.

Adult relationships have levels, and so hopefully you and your sister can spend time together, and you can see if there are signs that she is taking good care of her relationship with you.

This is why so many therapists will tell us to go slow with new people we meet. First we do activities that are low risk -i.e. go see a movie together etc.. and see how the person behaves towards the friendship with us. This is not the same thing as looking at how they treat us. They may say all the right things, compliment us on our new clothing etc...

Looking at how they approach the friendship with us is about looking at how they approach it. Do they value our time? Do they take our preferences into account when deciding where to meet up and what to do and for how long?

In a lot of ways, it is the opposite of what we learned as children of narcissistic parents. My parents have no idea how to take good care of a relationship. So therefore could not teach that to their children.

In a way, you are 'meeting' your sister anew, because the relationship you want with her (if she is capable of it) is based on new understandings and a new sense of self that you have after going NC. Do you think that is the case?

I've listened to Dr. Ramani and Lindsay Gibson videos recently and both talk about how we might go about having ongoing relationships with people we don't fully trust. We might agree to see them in the afternoon, when we know they are in a better mood, or we may plan to stay an hour instead of 2 hours, knowing they get more gossipy if we spend entire days with them.

I find this advice helpful because none of this was modelled in my FOO. No one taught me how to take care of relationships and build trust. They all acted as if they were entitled to a) behave how ever they wanted the entire visit and b) not need to do anything to be trustworthy people. In fact my FOO was not interested in being trustworthy, which is why it wasn't a goal they were going for. These were not the values that motivated them. As a child of course I had no idea that people could live like that, and not care. Children don't know why their narcissistic parents are so untrustworthy, we just learn how to deal with it.

I can appreciate your desire to be open to seeing if your sister is wanting some of the same things you do now that you are both adults. It is a new start, and you'll have to see if she takes care of the relationship with you or not.

Over time it will become apparent whether your sister understands your decision or not, and you may find that you are able to spend time with her even if she doesn't understand your decision to go NC. Some people enjoy meeting up for a coffee every so often, with relatives who don't understand their NC decision. They keep things light, and they don't take much if at all about the FOO.

Or she may be pulling out and getting Out of the FOG herself.

It is good that you are open to seeing her, and it sounds like you understand that you can't control what she does / doesn't do with her relationship to your parents. As we have seen on the boards here, we have to stay focused on what helps keep us Out of the FOG, and decide whether our siblings can support this or not. That depends on where they are at in their own life.

Trees

[Hilltop]

Thanks Trees I think what you have written helps moving forward.  I will definitely take it slow.

Mother sent a birthday card, late, which is really funny, because I previously told them how my MIL gave late birthday wishes and it was rude.  I'm not doubting the NC with parents and I guess I'll see how it goes with sister.