The truth war goes on

[hhaw]

EM:

I'm glad you're getting to the massage therapist.  One strange fact about trauma..... it lives in our bodies and skin.  Massage therapists are trained to expect uncontrolled crying when working on traumatized clients....  so if that happens.... just let it out and try not to feel awkward about it.  It's normal and expected and OK.  I always fought mine, but I want you to feel safe enough to let it go and trust it will help you feel better.  Like an animal shaking off trauma..... just try to let it go, EM.

About the money, I'm not telling you not to fight over it.  I'm just saying... there will be a formula for splitting assets that has nothing to do with what you ask for or want and you won't have a lot to say about how it shakes out IF a Judge is forced to make that decision.  The records and document discovery will inform the Judge.  If your stbx has an education.... that's relevent.  If she's done any work in recent years or any at all... that's relevent, but it's pretty common for abusive men to TELL their wives what's going to happen and what they'd do and won't do.  My abusive stbx spent a lot of time telling everyone I was going to have to go to work after we'd agreed I would stay home and raise the children.  My attorney said it was very commmon for abusive men to say that.... just say'in. 

The attorneys ignore it..... discovery trudges on.  A fair agreement would be nice, but floating lopsided unfair agreements can lead to your being pegged as someone who isn't reasonable or fair, so my experience has always been to float your minimum list, plus a couple things you can give up so as to appear willing to give in and negotiate to resolve matters, but get TO THAT OVERTLY FAIR BOTTOM LINE LIST and don't keep faffing about with settlement discussions if the PD refuses to agree to your terms.  Just..... shut it down and continue preparing for trial and know that's often the quickest way out of divorve court with a PD.  I say that again and again, but I say a lot.  I hope to be helpful, not tell you what you must do.  Just cut out the down time and wasteful expenses where possible.  Help you always appear reasonable and fair and more likely to support the relationship with the disordered mum of your children, even if she's very unstable.... you want to be viewed as THE parent who'll do what's in the best interest of the parent and never punish stbx.  The courts are used to litigants reacting and lashing out in anger.  That won't be you.  Offering a less than fair financial settlement is something an angry litigant might do, is all I'm saying. It also adds to time wasted on settlement discussions, IME, bc I was always looking for the way to GET OUT of those discussions and into the COurtroom to end the legals, once and for all.  DO trust your gut, EM..... but understand how these things work and what's on the line.

When the stbx refuses your less than fair offer.... everyone involved will understand why she refused a less than fair offer.  She had no choice but to ignort,. bc as you said, it's not a fair offer.  YOU want to avoid being viewed as THE REASON the attorneys can't settle this and move on, trust me.   Attornyes hate trial prep... some WON'T litigate at all.  Most cases are settled and having to go to trial upsets both attorneys and the Judge... trust me again.   Make sure you avoid being viewed as the reason for going through a PITA trial they despise being forced to participate in.

I think I've said that in as many ways as one can, so will resist repeating myself again.  I think you understand well enough. 


About the social services and any court appointed Ts......
if they don't see things your way....
if they believe the PD's sad story or the GC's stories.....
it's never a good idea to go into Court without an opposing view from an expert, on your side,with as much clout, hopefully more where your Judge is concerned.  There will be expert witnesses who testify in front of your Judge on a regular basis.  Some the Judge will like more than others.  Maybe figure out who's who and line up your own evaluations...... better to be prepared than caught flat footed, IME.   

I don't know what your evidence is, so I point out ways to corroborate what you have.  Depending on the strength of your evidence, you might not need that.  You won't know until the reports shake out and then having a plan is better than scrambling.  Sometimes scrambling is necessary and just how it had to go down, IME.  It's a wait and see game.... and humans aren't very good at not knowing what's coming next.  I do believe you'll have an easier time staying or appearing to BE level... at least more level than the stbx, so there's that. 

I always always found there was at least one dumb bunny court officer who bought the PD's story..... but not everyone will and certainly not all the time.  If you expect it and know you'll have to counter it.... it's just another part of the process and not a reason to panic and catastrophize, which I did A LOT.  Thats really hard on the nervous system, IME.

You're lucky to have procured that same barrister.... that's HUGE to have competent AND informed respresentation.  You have to pet your pony, feed your pony then ride your pony into the Courtroom, so do everything you can not to step on her toes or make it appear you doubt her ability or competence, IME.   I think I'm referring to your attorney, rather than your barrister, butit's a bit confusing from here.   TELLING an attorney you aren't going to do things their way.... that would have blown up in my face big time, bc simply stating facts calmly around WHY doing things the typical way would blow up in my face DID blow u in my face... and more than once.  Attorneys tend to have big egos, IME,. but I alwAys got better performances out of the ones who ended up with egg on their faces after what I said came to pass and what they insisted would happen did not. 

Don't assume anthing thing is good or bad..... you just don't know how things will go, as with the PD getting her emergency hearing then that hearing ended up being good for you.

Again.... focus on what you CAN do.  Fighting over the money will never be up to you.  Fighting for the children absolutely is up solely to you and what you do to bring about the best possible outcome. 

You're surfin real good, EM.

[escapingman]

Hhaw, thanks.

I don't have time to respond to all your text, but regarding the financial settlement. I still offered her more than I would have got, but I suggested to buy her out of the house. I knew she would reject that, but she would reject anything. She think she will be able to keep her salary and half of mine, even though that makes her having way more money than me. It will go to court, but that is expensive. But she seems to rather spend everything on a court battle than just settle near 50/50.

But the kids are the priority, however if she can spend her anger on the financial bits I am happy.

[hhaw]

I wouldn't be surprised if yuor stbx was willing to go deeeeeep into to debt, burn the house down and destroy the business that feeds her and the children just
to
punish
you.

You should know she will likely be completely without reason....
even if you were to give her everything she asks for.....
she'd likely refuse it and continue asking for more. 

Likely and IME.

[escapingman]

I knew that she would reject the first offer I gave her, whatever it was. So I offered what I wanted, no point in going in for less when she would reject anyway. Maybe we can get a counter offer from her, but I am not in that big rush as with no agreement I get to stay in the house and she don't have the funds to buy somewhere new. But finances is low prio compared to kids, but if I can keep her busy on that I be happy and to concentrate on the kids. Let's face it, her priority is to get more than me financially, and as for the kids she doesn't really want them, she just don't want me to have them. She has told me repeatedly over the years how she never wanted kids and that I conned her into having them. I am sure that is true, she never wanted them and I am still surprised she actually agreed and had them in the first place. Maybe she was worried I would leave if not and that's the reason, I don't know.

Her worst nightmare in all this is that the truth will come out in the open, that nightmare is about to happen. I have told 2 of my best friends about what she has done with GC and both of them told me they were disgusted with that behaviour and called her a small human being. SG has invited friend this afternoon and I am going to host a bbq for them, I will see if there is any chance to keep one or two of the parents I and "accidentally" tell them the story. The thing is that all those parents also knows GC and keep asking about her.

My gloves are off, they are so off...... I struggled to sleep last night, I was laying shaking in anger of what uNPDx is doing. I felt a desire to go and her what the F***** H*** she is playing at and why is want to ruin my life. I know the answer to that so no point to even entertain that she would ever answer anyway.

I have one other ace up my sleeve to make her life miserable. When we were on holiday in my home country a few years ago, she physically attacked me leaving bruises on me. When I spoke to the police in the UK they suggested they can't do anything about that, but that I could report her in the other country. I don't think anything would come out of it, other than a lot of embarrassment and inconvenience for her. But I need to run her down, attack on every flank I can. Attack strong whilst defending even stronger. I never thought going through a divorce was going to be like going through war, planning, preparing, attacking, defending...

This will be a big 2 months running up to the hearing.

[Gettintired76]

Oh Em my heart goes out you brother, it is literally breaking that we have to go through this, and know that I know how hard this is but please please stay strong for your kids, believe brother Ive felt like throwing in the towel myself...alot... but I know my babies deserve for their daddy to keep fighting with every ounce, you are getting some great advice here as have I use it Bubby make it your mantra.....with the love of a brother-GT

[hhaw]

I don't care if you fight the financials, EM.  I GET that your understanding is the divorce will be granted when the financials are figured out, so floating a letter to opposing counsel with a settlement offer gets that ball rolling.  Fine. 

I'm just saying.... whatever documents you create, texts you send,  whatever you say or do that COULD be recorded and showed to this Judge SHOULD SUPPORT YOUR NARRATIVE and never support the stbx's narrative.

I hope you have a wonderful bbq and make at least one connection with other parents.

[escapingman]

Hhaw, I only have obe narrative and that is freedom and safety for me and the children.

Bbq and the girls playmate went stunningly well. I love to hear laughter in the house. They had s much fun. Also managed to talk a bit with one parent and get more of my story out. I feel like new person, it's surreal.

[justducky]

Bbq and the girls playmate went stunningly well. I love to hear laughter in the house. They had s much fun. Also managed to talk a bit with one parent and get more of my story out. I feel like new person, it's surreal.

So glad to hear this!  This is what life is like on the other side. 

[SonofThunder]

Bbq and the girls playmate went stunningly well. I love to hear laughter in the house. They had s much fun. Also managed to talk a bit with one parent and get more of my story out. I feel like new person, it's surreal.

So glad to hear this!  This is what life is like on the other side. 

SoT

[guitarman]

It's good to know that you had a fun time together. It's good to let laughter into your life again.

The more people we tell our stories to the easier it becomes. We learn to trust people again. Don't be put off by any people that don't understand. You need to keep telling your story.

I have had the courage to tell my story to gatherings of many people. I stood up and said what has happened. How they reacted is not my concern. I now help to raise awareness about Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and how targets of abuse need on going specialist support.

"Abuse thrives in the darkness. We all need to help shine a light on it wherever it occurs."

Keep on shining your light on all the abuse you and your children have experienced. Keep telling your truth.

Don't minimise what has happened to you. Don't make any excuses.

You are fighting for the wellbeing of yourself and your children. You are fighting for all your futures together.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[escapingman]

Right now I am shining the light on the parental alienation she is doing towards me and the alienation towards SG. That is enough to get people feel disgusted with uNPDx at the moment.

Yesterday after everyone went home, SG got a bit clingy and at bedtime asked to sleep in my bed. As that was one of the complaints in uNDDx's accusations I try to avoid that at the moment so told her no but that I will lay in her bed cuddling her until she falls a sleep. She then reveals the reason for her stress, uNPDx has been sending her messages. SG said it was really disturbing to her as uNPDx kept sending these messages asking her what she is up to and what she is doing and pretending all is fine. SG says she doesn't want to reply to them but feel obliged to reply so now she feels guilty for not replying. I asked to see them and only got a glance on them and uNPDx was asking about timings of when we were going to be at certain places. I am so sick of the entitlement that uNPDx now thinks she can bombard SG with messages, but at the same time keep GC away from us both.

[justducky]

Wow, what awful games uNPDx is playing! I'm so sorry.

Can SG block uNPDx's texts if she so chooses? I understand that you're walking a fine line regarding the kids and their mother during a divorce. IMO it would be good for SG to know that she can block texts if she wants, if only for a few hours at a time.  One option is for her to choose to check in with uNPDx once or twice a day. That way her mother isn't constantly intruding and SG has some control.

[hhaw]

EM:

I hope you recieve a Copy of whatever Ordere instructs stbx to stay away from the family home and surrounding streets.

It would be good to see what it says so yu can craft emails to your attorney requesting approrpriate relief and whatever protections intended for SG and you.... so it can be extended beyond the family home in the spirit in which it was written.

IF that order protects JUST the home and surrounding streets,  and not SG or you, I would consider asking my attorney to tweak that Order.  The devil's in the details, Em.  Orders can be tweaked and attoreys here can ask Judges to DO that.

Opposing counsel might exert some control over stbx IF he's informed of her behaviors and how it's affecting SG.  I don't know how you're going to document this, but I'm praying for the best possible outcome.

Reading about the happy bbq made my heart happy for you and SG. 

[escapingman]

The current order is very straight forward, uNPDx is not allowed to physically enter the street we live on. If she does I deserve the right to have her back in court with some serious consequences, I don't think she will break that (not because of the court order but that she has not painted the house black and as in the past). The order does forbid communication between me and uNPDx both ways, unless it is related to the wellbeing of the children and emergencies. There is nothing blocking me to contact GC or her to contact SG, but neither of us is allowed to be mean to the children (easy for me to agree as I have no intention of being mean, but she is not allowed). I am pretty sure she is breaking this behind closed doors with GC, but right now she is holding it with SG. Bad thing is that she is allowed contact if she behaves. However, there has been another court order drafted since the last hearing and I am waiting to see it. But I am going to write an email to my solicitor telling her about the stress uNPDx is putting onto SG by sending these messages. What freaks me out a bit and probably can be used is that she has asked SG about when she was going to be doing certain things with me, looks innocent on the surface but could very likely be her trying to keep a tab on where we are at any given time for any reason.

I have been listening to a lot of audio recordings, and to be honest I am not getting as affected anymore. They are disturbing, but I am Out of the FOG and I don't care. I think I have the best ones ready but I keep going through it.

[escapingman]

I came across this one from Sam Vaknin today, normally his videos are quire long and hard to watch but this is spot on. He talks about letting go of the mentally ill person and that we can't help them and how they create a bond where they make us their parent. SoT and I have mention this before that leaving our wifes feels like leaving our children, Sam explains this very well in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHc-OfrzWn8&list=TLPQMDQwNzIwMjLGafXfaM_ZVg&index=2

For every day, every video watched, every conversation with some one I am taking one step further out the FOG and into the real life. I cannot tell you how much better I feel after just 6 weeks of no contact.

[SonofThunder]

I came across this one from Sam Vaknin today, normally his videos are quire long and hard to watch but this is spot on. He talks about letting go of the mentally ill person and that we can't help them and how they create a bond where they make us their parent. SoT and I have mention this before that leaving our wifes feels like leaving our children, Sam explains this very well in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHc-OfrzWn8&list=TLPQMDQwNzIwMjLGafXfaM_ZVg&index=2

For every day, every video watched, every conversation with some one I am taking one step further out the FOG and into the real life. I cannot tell you how much better I feel after just 6 weeks of no contact.

EM, I am SO happy to read you are starting to see light and begin the healing process.  Thanks for the link. I will watch the episode.  Keep up the good yet difficult work in the truth war. 

SoT

[escapingman]

Thanks SoT, how are things for you?

I am sure I saw a reply from you Guitarman but it has disappeared. We are all victims of trying to help people who doesn't want help. I thought this video by Sam was so spot on, especially where I am in my own healing and process. Finally I have realised that I cannot save uNPDx, I feel sorry for her and I would not wish anyone to go through what she did as a child, but she is not a child anymore and I cannot save her from her childhood. But what I can do is to try to save my own children from going through the same. uNPDx is desperately trying to ruin their childhoods, probably unintentionally but she doesn't know better. I have tried to make her see, but she can't see, all she tries to do is to drag me with her into to the abys.

This week is a big week, tomorrow I will speak to my solicitor to see what can be done legally about uNPDx latest stunts. Then I am meeting with social services, I already told them my concerns over the phone so they should be aware. I told them GC is being brain washed and that she needs to come home. I also told them I want them to listen to my recordings, which they agreed to do, that could be a game changer - hopefully. Then I have another meeting with Cafcass (children's services) as they are involved now as well. I am getting exhausted by all this but my focus is all on getting GC back home and to protect SG from uNPDx. I moved a work meeting tomorrow last minute as my solicitor got time for me, client not happy but I need to prioritise and work come second.

Thanks for all support, all of you, it really helps.

[SonofThunder]

Hi EM, yes the video was good.  Thanks for sharing.  He talked about the parentification role we non's can take on with a PD and they use their troubled pasts to solidify our empathy toward their plight.  He makes an interesting statement regarding the non being (in a way) brainwashed like a cult-member into the position of being in oneness with the PD and that the objective is for the ship of the non and PD to go down together; to have the non join the PD where they are, so they do not experience fear of abandonment(foa).  My and your foa experiences have been described (as Sam stated) like leaving a child to face a terrifying world all alone.

I do not see much of that childlike-abandoning experience written about here unless its a female PD being left by a male non.  The opposite way around seems to be described either as terrifying violent verbal and/or physical altercations by the male 🤯or cold, masculine, cocky, blatant discard where the PD male plays manipulative mind-games conveying to the female non that they don't matter/don't exist/are inferior and potentially the PD male cheats or departs or both, leaving the non wife standing with the kids and all the responsibilities of running a home.   

Maybe im missing some written experiences but in my time here, the male nons leaving female PDw's is the minority.  It may also be that some males are not the forum community types and so therefore statistically, the amount of male non's here is smaller.  Either way, Sam seemed to used the word 'she' in the video most of the time and his description fit my experiences. 

Thank you for your caring question.  I am like you, enjoying a time of increased peace and moving forward carefully in this process, laying low and observing with radar on high.  As before, i try to stay a few steps ahead in planning to be prepared for whatever may come my way. 

I will be keeping you in thought and prayer for your busy week ahead and will be checking this thread and others, for updates.  I hope you continue enjoying your time with SC.  Cheers!

SoT

[Gettintired76]

I am so sorry EM my ex pretty much has free reign over the courts at this point, albeit I'm pretty sure the court in her county took SG from her, and yes their entitlement is astounding. Just stay strong brother it will get better...it has to

[guitarman]

Thank you for the link to the video. I have watched it.

I have had "dysfunctional responsibility" for my uBPD/NPD sister for decades.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.