What next?

[hhaw]

If you're super uber appropriate, fun and give the girls plenty of space an time on their own during overnights.... it should be just fine.  My oldest DD's best friend's singled dad hosted as many overnights as i did..... I also sent my youngest to him during legal stuff.... he adored her. She was safe, well fed and I knew my girls were safe as houses with him. 

YOU shouldn't worry about being around young girls, unless you're worried for some reason I can't fathom.  Just be fun, cool, consistent  and super safe dad..... and it's OK to ask for help.  Talk about it BEFORE you need them when stress is HIGH HIGH HIGH.

Maybe line up a couple options proactively. 

And remember... when SG starts calming down.... she misses her mum.  What kind of supervied visitation have you been thinking about, if you have thought about it.  It would be good to have a really thoughtful plan in mind..... you might appear proactive, invested in "helping" violent abusive mum be the best darned mum she CAN be while preserving what you can of the SG/Mum relationship you WANT SG and Mum in Therapy to heal.  I'd have SG IN therapy quick.... Courts like to keep the status quo in place...... just easier, IME.

[guitarman]

You may like to become a member of Gingerbread. It's free to join. It's an organisation in the UK for single parents. It maybe a great source of support for you.

https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/

They may have a local group in your area.

[escapingman]

If you're super uber appropriate, fun and give the girls plenty of space an time on their own during overnights.... it should be just fine.  My oldest DD's best friend's singled dad hosted as many overnights as i did..... I also sent my youngest to him during legal stuff.... he adored her. She was safe, well fed and I knew my girls were safe as houses with him. 

YOU shouldn't worry about being around young girls, unless you're worried for some reason I can't fathom.  Just be fun, cool, consistent  and super safe dad..... and it's OK to ask for help.  Talk about it BEFORE you need them when stress is HIGH HIGH HIGH.

Maybe line up a couple options proactively. 

And remember... when SG starts calming down.... she misses her mum.  What kind of supervied visitation have you been thinking about, if you have thought about it.  It would be good to have a really thoughtful plan in mind..... you might appear proactive, invested in "helping" violent abusive mum be the best darned mum she CAN be while preserving what you can of the SG/Mum relationship you WANT SG and Mum in Therapy to heal.  I'd have SG IN therapy quick.... Courts like to keep the status quo in place...... just easier, IME.

I think my worry comes from the way uNPDx has conditioned me and I am somehow worried that everything I do is wrong in some way. But I know the truth so I will start invite friends and children to the house, I will have a spare bedroom now so easy to host sleepovers. But with uNPDx lurking in the background probably trying to find any reason to smear me and potentially alert social services about any made up accusation, I need to take care. I was away with SG and a friend of hers a few months ago, uNPDx tried to gaslight me about several things where one was me abandoning the girls to sit in the bar when the truth was me sitting in the bar giving them space to be in the room on their own. I was also told by her it was inappropriate to share a hotel room with this girl, this despite having two double beds and the friend getting one bed for herself (uNPDx also said it would be inappropriate to let them have a room on their own as they are to young leaving me with 2 options I would lose with both).

I am thinking of hosting a bbq for SG and her friends, however many she wants to invite, shouldn't go wrong with burgers and sausages in the garden. This house has been so empty on happiness and no one really ever visit, I suppose it has everything to do with the girls not wanting anyone to see potential outbursts from uNPDx and all her complaints before anyone comes (she has to clean the house spotless for anyone to come).

[hhaw]

I hope you do fill your home with childrens' laughter and the chatter of relaxed parents and enjoyable food..... just let the stbx's voice in your head know it;s no longer welcome and you'll handle any silliness she alleges with grace and competence.... things are different now. You have the house to yourselves..... remember to breathe deeply and embrace gratitude. 

What a treat.... taking the girls on a trip and staying in a hotel.  Stbx has no power to control you or tell you how to have fun or what to do or not do anymore.

[escapingman]

Yesterday I was out all day with SG and her team on a tournament, SG has do much fun running round with her friends all day mixing matches and fun. I had the opportunity to tell one of the other parents about my situation, leaving the PD and abuse bits out. It was quite liberating to tell him and he offered help whenever I need it.

uNPDx is really trying to push me back to full war, what did she not learn from her last defeat when she had to leave the house? It's so sad to see how someone can be so entitled and still behave entitled when all the evidence is stacked against her. I am not going to silently look how she drags poor GC down her misery pit, last contact from GC was that she doesn't want to see me or SG as we have hurt her. That hurt to read, cause if I have hurt her it's only because uNPDx have told her I have hurt her. I saw GC again today and she ignored me when she passed me, I even saw a smirk on her face when she had passed me. That is sick, I am so worried she will become like her mum if no one takes me serious about this. Meantime uNPDx has been moving money out of the shared bank account, she thinks I haven't noticed as she has found this grand plan to keep paying off a credit card over and over again. It's not my priority but I need to fight all battles, financial and children, at the same time now. I won't hesitate going back to the police again and make a full statement if I am not getting anywhere with social. I was quite contempt with just having her out the house, but the way she is playing it I am getting fire in my belly and I need to take her down. As she isn't going to give up until she is completely defeated I have no choice. 

[Boat Babe]

One suggestion I have is to get her friends over to your house for playdates and then overnights.

If you habitually host them, it's easier to have reciprocation.

Also you being available to help others in a pinch goes a long way too - like if school is dismissed early unexpectedly one day for weather, you can be available to get other kids while picking up yours.

Yep doing that already, although taking it a bit slow with overnights as I am very wary of me being a male and SG's friends being young girls and you never know what people think. But SG had a play date here today, they spent all afternoon playing with me being able to get on with cleaning and laundry. I am always picking SG from school and also take her friends as well whenever they want a lift. I do this with no motive, I just want to help but if I get some help back that's great.

Wise move.

[losingmyself]

Are you able to open a new bank account and move some money into it, so she can't spend all of it? And, close any credit cards that have your name on it? 
I am so happy to hear of your newly found peace!

[escapingman]

Are you able to open a new bank account and move some money into it, so she can't spend all of it? And, close any credit cards that have your name on it? 
I am so happy to hear of your newly found peace!

Yes I have an account I already moved a quit big chunk to, I also told uNPDx to move the same amount to her own account so we are both safe from each other trying to steal all other money. I have a meeting with the bank later this week to see what the best way forward is, but her moving money out in the way she is can only work against her and should make me have the same amount out of the shared pot later.

Thanks for your kind words, the peace and calm at home is just something I have missed for the last 15+ years.

[escapingman]

Feeling really low and run down at the moment. Have been working all day in meetings and then SG had baking project for school and had to run her round shops and then assist her baking. I felt quite positive earlier today but with all demands from SG, who gets very temperamental when she doesn't get her way, I am worn out. Sorry for venting but I just could do with some help, someone who just could sit in the house with SG whilst I got out and just got a break. I am annoyed with my dad who dropped everything to come and help just to go home after a few days thinking his duties where done. I obviously love SG to bits, but I am starting to feel the house is my prison. I am also very emotional and miss GC so much, and to have been ignored for almost a month is hurting. I hope to get some strength tomorrow and maybe skip a couple of hours of work and go for a walk or to the gym.

[Rose1]

As a single parent of 2 kids and a full time demanding job plus housework of course, I found it necessary to have expectations of quiet time.
During the week the girls went to after school care till I could pick them up. They enjoyed it, got their homework done, let off steam running around and I picked them up after work.

We usually had a good talk on the way home and then I got some help with dinner prep.
Either unloading dishwasher, help with vegetables, cleaning out school bags while I was making dinner. That sort of thing. After dinner we had a bit of family time and the girls watched some TV if there was anything on.

We made sure bags were ready for next day since we aren't really morning people and we had to get up early.

Once we did all that it was my quiet time. I expected no fighting or loud noises but asked the girls to go read or do something quiet in their rooms before bed and I went to bed and read a book.

I'm not sure how I would have coped otherwise because they rarely spent time with their father (his idea was any time spent with him was helping me out and that wasn't going to happen).

It wasn't too hard to get our new routine, I had craft stuff in the house and the girls were readers anyway and I didn't mind a movie on if it wasn't too loud.

Main housework was left to the weekends so we could have time together. The girls often talked about issues while we were driving or making dinner. It seems that they open up better in that setting. I've been told that by other parents too.

It was necessary to teach planning and organisation. If there was something special on i didn't want to find out about it the night before and involving them in the process has been very good for them.

There isn't much time available available during these growing years but they go fast and it's worth the time spent together. It's also necessary to make sure you have the mental energy to cope.

[escapingman]

Thanks Rose.

I think it is about trying to find the routines and to teach SG some rules and boundaries. Now she is very much flexing against me and as I am not shouting and screaming at her she thinks she can get away with things. I want to give her some slack, but it's frustrating when she just leaves stuff around and then when being told to clear it asks me if I am going to shout like mum. Yesterday was a though day, but it got better and me and SG went for a long walk in the evening, that is also one of the best ways to talk about things with her. She is really missing her sister at the moment and she is so frustrated with that her sister keeps ignoring her. I found it so worrying that she is exercising silent treatment and stone walling at such a young age, it's not just for a few hours, this has gone on for almost a month now. I am not sure how much more of this I can manage to be honest, it rips my hearth out every time I see her and say hello and she turns her head and walks away. I am wondering if I am better off just leaving her to it and wait to see if she comes back to me, now I only seem to make her feel proud of ignoring me. I felt particularly bad for an incident SG told me about happened yesterday. SG saw GC and went to her and said hello, GC just got her headphones out and put in her ears and walked off. I am getting so angry about this I am not sure what to do. It's so clear what uNPDx is doing in the background. It can really not have been meant that uNPDx where supposed to just take GC with her and turn her against us when she was the one getting punished in court. I am frustrated beyond what I can handle. I am meeting with my solicitor later today and need to discuss this, uNPDx is violating the order she signed by turning GC against me, but how do I prove this? That will be impossible.

[hhaw]

EM:

Here's a gentle reminder to pace yourself...... divorcing a PD, esp with children involved, is a taxing roller coaster of intense emotions full of fear, doubt, anger and intense relief mixed with hope and joy squashed over and over IF one does't set realistic expectations arouind the cadence of these things, IME.

You will have good and great days.  You will have devastating days and days where your sadness pops up as justifiable anger and outrage...it truly is heinous fockery to use children and harm them in order to manipulate systems and people, IME.  It IS what you're dealing with and the best way to handle it is to continue gaining new understanding about yourself, your situation and tools to deal with it effectively.  For your own mental health and to model for your children.

As for taking other children for overnights and having gatherings in your home..... my perspective is...... being "careful" would be about my buying into your stbx's invalidation of your capabilities and decisions making process. It could also be about douibt she's created around intentions and that's a terrible and toxic seed to plant in anyone, particularly someone in your situation.  I'm not saying it's truth.... I'm saying my observation and view of it is that it COULD be the stbx having a foothold inside your Nervous System and internal belief system you aren't aware of.... maybe.  Not sure, but I wanted to put it out there for your consideration and to perhaps discuss with your T.  I hope you're seeing her every week, bc she seems to be someone you trust and who can offset the stress you're under.

About the alienation and proving it.......
how can you document SG's experience?  I hoped she was seeing a counselor at school who could help you do that.  Meeting with SG, with GC and with them both could perhaps help you gain allies and supporters..... I know that the T I hired went into my children's school and interviewed relevent people, but also people just standing int he hallways.... it was a thorough and intense investigation that covered EVERYTHING and showed the Court important dynamics and details around all the facts she could access.

Including experts, the people who have contact with your children regularly..... ANYONE you can turn into an advocate.... TURN them with mindful, consisten and gentle guidance.  DOCUMENT like your childrens' lives depend on it.

It's likely psych evaluations WILL be Ordered in your situation,bc of the disparity in stories and how the children are impacted. Your situation is NOT normal......you have more standing here, IME, based on the fact you have the house and one of your children under your control.  SG is going to fatigue, she's going to break and rebuild, just like you, likely on a daily basis AND she still
has
no
mental
health
support!  How is that possible?  I don';t understand why she isn't seeing a mental health professional who
can
help
you
document
the situation
and
explain 'it.

THAT is how you PROVE the truth, IME.

From where I'm sitting, I know how it works out down the road when the stbx continues to be toxic while claiming they're the victim without ANY evidence except a few emotional things they present in an unfair way without context.

For instance, the in home visit stbx had with child and family services people has NO context, IME.  Once they interview SG and you and the school and the other parents THEN there's some context and a fair chance they'll have enough information to begin drawing conclusions about the situation.

You're likely going to be the driver behind the investigations and YOU HAVE TO GET good advice from people who KNOW what you're up against, what your resources are and also guide you TO the people more likely to GET your situation.  That means referrals from people who send you to people they've already expained the situation to....people who have credibility and contacts with respected experts, forensic psychologists who administer tests and who deal with crisis...... I know a poster on this board offered to give you information.  I hope you consider availing yourself, bc "proving" your case isn't going to just happen, esp if you're beat down and exhausted and barely able to keep yur household and SG on track, along with the business.

About your dad popping in then leaving as though he's done his part.......
I understtand it's difficult to ask for help and share mortifying details around your situation.  I do, but cultivating the ability to formulate cohesive narratives making sense, and also remaining brief.......
learning to calm your Nervous System in order to tell your story, explain what you're up against, lay out the ways you need help THEN ASK FOR that help is critical, IME.

And this......
I received so little validation and help in my situation..... I believed I failed to ask for help... I believed I didn't ask for help or do everything I could to GET help.   When an attorney looked me in the eye and said ......."You TOLD EVERYONE about this."  I was shocked, bc how could I have ende up where I was IF I'd told and asked for help? 

I'll tell you...... I failed to ask the right systems and people.... I told my family and the police and high priced attorneys who CLAIMED to deal with PD individuals, but they were so outclassed...... they were truly ignorant and assumed I was lying or exaggerating, etc. 

Finding and putting together a good team of suppoters, advocates and people in positions to HELP you explain your situation isn't just about being uncomfortable a good deal of the time and dealing with the fallout.....

it's about seeking information from the domestic violence people.... I never contacted them, not once.... I think I tried or started to, but was talked out of it or just didn't have the energy or the sting of the shame knocked me down..... and that's why putting together a GOOD plan with solid supporters is so necessary.  You aren't used to advocating for yourself and you'll get stronger, but in the meantime....... seek out people who ARE strong and informed and understand how the system works and who has pull and who doesn't. 

Make that plan and execute it, have people you can lean on when you're falling down an don't feel bad about falling down,bc it's just part of this process, IME.

KNOW you're going to keep getting back up.  You're going to DO what needs to be done IF you know what to do and that's always shifting as  things unfold...... the bad news, the devastating allegations, the children being rippped apart mindlessly by stbx and her suppoters is something you should accept, know you can't stop it BUT YOU CAN mitigate and shift that trajectory with a solid plan you consistently follow, nurture and grow.... evidence.  Statements.  Witnesses.  Expert testimony and reports the stbx won't have..... YOU GET!

[escapingman]

Thanks hhaw, as always everything you write is gold dust. I did write to the person offering help about a month ago, but never got a reply - maybe something went wrong with the message?

It's summer now, with holidays and school holidays, things seems to be on a slow. I am only seeing my T every third week right now, social seems to be very slow with ramping up things as well.

Got a hearing date for the custody discussions, it's about 2 months away. Lots to think about before then. I am going to try to push for things to happen before then through solicitors, but that is maybe wishful thinking. Spoke to my solicitor today, she was annoyed with the judge we had and thought she was sexist and only judged as she did because I am a male, apparently she had exact same problem with the same judge with another male client recently. Personally I think that the judge should get the sack and not be allowed near real people and real problems. I seriously hope it will be another judge next time or else I am stuffed.

Regarding my nervous system and uNPDx being inside of it, yes I think so to a certain extent. I am getting better but she has definitely got into me. When I was at my worst I coudn't even send an email to anyone because I was so worried how they would react. All the fear planted in my brain by uNPDx. I am getting back to normal and have stopped worrying about what other people think, but it's hard when someone has been questioning every interaction with others for so long.

Today has been a better day, but I am still worn out. 

[escapingman]

I cannot believe it's 4 weeks since I left her. 4 weeks no contact. 4 weeks of peace. I cannot get my head around that I actually did this. I am still in some way waiting for her to turn up at home, it feels so strange. I miss her, or more precise I miss who I thought she was. All I can see now when thinking back on her is her raging face, all anger and all hate. Yes I remember who I thought she was with sadness, I really miss that fantasy person. But I would never in a million years risk seeing the one she became (or who she actually was all the time but hiding). SG told me yesterday I looked depressed. I told her I miss her sister. I asked her how she feels and she sad she feels good and that is not missing either her sister or her mum. I suppose that is a sign of how much they actually hurt and abused her towards the end.

I got a bit frustrated with SG yesterday, but she is very sensitive and is not taking any criticism or what she thinks is criticism lightly. I tried to tell her I am exhausted and that she need to help out a little bit at home and also lower her demands on me. She wants to play all the time, as soon as I try to have 5 minutes rest she complains and want me back out on the grass playing sports. She leaves her plates, sweet wrappers, clothes, water bottles all over the house, not turning lights off when leaving rooms. However many times I ask her politely she just don't clear up after herself. It's so frustrating and she gets so defensive when trying to discuss with her. I hope this will settle down and she will see that she need to make some kind of effort. But her grandad (my dad) is the same and he is retired....

But, the peace and calm is worth everything. I rather live in a house upside down with stuff everywhere than in a pristine house where everybody are shouted at if they drop a bread crumb on the floor.

[square]

Quite a set of emotions for both of you.

Maybe you can get two birds with one stone. It's time to pick up plates and rubbish, etc. You'll play with her some more after she does so. The key is that you are not forcing her to do it right now, not locking horns.

If she stalls, enjoy a BREAK. Nope, not playing catch till she's picked up after herself.

Also you might want to build in a quiet time for both of you. Say, 8:30 or whatever, before bed, time to read (or whatever) by yourselves to wind down. Then the bedtime ritual together.

Just some ideas.

[justducky]

I got a bit frustrated with SG yesterday, but she is very sensitive and is not taking any criticism or what she thinks is criticism lightly. I tried to tell her I am exhausted and that she need to help out a little bit at home and also lower her demands on me. She wants to play all the time, as soon as I try to have 5 minutes rest she complains and want me back out on the grass playing sports. She leaves her plates, sweet wrappers, clothes, water bottles all over the house, not turning lights off when leaving rooms. However many times I ask her politely she just don't clear up after herself. It's so frustrating and she gets so defensive when trying to discuss with her. I hope this will settle down and she will see that she need to make some kind of effort.

Now that you're no longer living with abuse you'll be able to be a parent who can set reasonable limits and consequences. IMO SG needs to see this. She only knows interpersonal terrorism where the biggest bully wins.

You're the parent. She's the child. You can and should establish rules and routines. It's possible to do this without being a monster. In doing so she may get upset. That's fine; she'll survive.

I know what I'm talking about here. My husband used to be WAY too permissive with his kids. Despite my best efforts the house was a mess. It was driving me nuts, but because of his guilt over divorcing his probable PD ex his need to be "nice dad" was trumping my reasonable need for order. It got so bad that we broke up for a while. When we got back together we discussed reasonable limits regarding order and cleanliness. When the kids are over they don't like picking up after themselves, but they do it with minimal fuss. No yelling required.

It's reasonable for you to want a modicum of cleanliness in the house. One way to do that is to teach SG to pick up after herself along the way. After she finishes eating something, clean up any plates, crumbs, wrappers, etc. You could restrict eating to the kitchen only. Just an idea.

Whenever she picks up after herself--whether she does so voluntarily, after you've reminded her, or even if she pitched a fit but then cleaned up, thank her for doing so. "Thanks for doing that, SG. It helps us have a nice house." You're thanking her and reminding her that this isn't about a power play. It's about working together and not living in a pigsty.

Another possibility is allowing her to keep her room as messy, but with a few limits. One of my SDs is naturally messy like my husband. Both don't think to clean up after themselves often. They're just geared that way. I tend to put stuff away as I go.

We've found compromises.

SD is allowed to have a messy room. Not allowed: food or drink except water, no wet towels laying around. Every few weeks we tell her to clean up her mess. She eventually does it. We thank her when she does it. She's not allowed to leave her mess/clutter elsewhere in the house. If her clutter starts to accumulate, I'll ask her to take it to her room or will put it in a place that indicates "Here's your stuff. Put it in your room."

Last suggestion: use sport with SG as a reward for cleaning up around the house. "We can play football after we clean up the living room and kitchen. Let's put on some music and do it together." If she protests, fine. No football. Don't back down. Be consistent.

Good luck with all of this, EM. Your world has been turned upside down in a good way. You're doing great! 

[hhaw]

EM:

I KNOW you're easily overwhelmed and part of that is your Nervous System is traind to go into fight or flight quickly and before you have a chance to notice it... reactivity is lightening fast, it just is.  Those default brain pathways are thick and well traveled.... coated in white fat making them lightening fast.  The way to address them is to become aware of them.   The second is to catch them..... even if you go down them, at least become aware and cultivate a split second where choice is possible.  That's all you need... to notice and to SEE there's choice.  A calmer brain has access to frontal lobe higher functions.... logic, creative problem solving.... so don't expect to have choice or to make different decisions IF you can't notice your thoughts and choices first.  THere are steps and you're very intelligent.... you can do this. 

Learning to breathe and calm your Nervous System down..... training your Parasympathetic Nervous System to come online to shut OFF fight or flight mode...... is a process.  You can develop new pathways, train your brain to USE new pathways  and it's a journey...... you just  keep practicing without judgment or turning on yourself or judging yourself when you fail.... failing is just a point where you notice and go back to practicing again with the knowledge THAT is how one learns and makes positive change, IME.  There is no growth without failing... failing is part of learning.

I reference this bc you seem to be frustrated over the same confrontations with SG, which you have zero ability to control, outside controlling your actions, words and thoughts around it.  That's ALL you can do.  Accepting that will help you focus on what YOU CAN DO, rather than on what's bothering you and who's involved, IME.  You can help SG notice what's going on in her internal world, repeat back to her the exact words  she uses, so she feels heard and understood. 
"You feel frutrated with the chores and expect me to yell at you like your mum yelled."
"You feel I'm criticiaing you when I remind you to pick up after yourself."

Validating her feelings.... letting her know you'd feel the same way ....... reassuring her those feelings are normal and frustrating..... then moving into problem solving mode.... ask her what her ideas are around solving the problems..... ask her what she feels would be an appropriate consequence for forgetting to do her chores....... make lists and include DD in every aspect..... always keep yourself OUT of the boundary setting and consequences so DD is left with HER actions, HEr consequencs and what SHE can do to resolve the issue,which is not about pleasing YOU or avoiding punishment.

It will be about learning self care, respect for herself and her living spaces and things...... not about pleasing you or being punished.  Take yourself out of the "problem" with new communication skills..... it's possible an so very helpful, IME.



What CAN you do, EM?  You can do research to understand strategies and skills to get more of what you wan.

The book  The Parallel Process was suggested for all parents with children in the WILDErNESS PROGRAM my oldest DD attended.  It might not perfectly suit your situation... for it certainly will not, but it WILL give you clarity and tools to HELP you deal with and overcome your current challenges with setting boundaries and communicating more effectively with SG AND with GC when she's back in your physical space.  How can you find the time and space to do some reseaerch? Maybe SG will be cofortable with you IN the grassy area she's playing in while you're reading?  Maybe you have the book with you at all times and catch a page or two here and there or just leave it in the bathroom.  It's not a long read.... you can mark pages and paragraps with a highlighter.  I like to reread books with a different colored highlighter to SEE what's changed for me and what jumps out with each read. 

Honestly, having that kind of pointed knowledge is empowering, makes a parent feel less AT THE MERCY OF the systems and PDs in their life, IME.  It also enhances home life and relationship with your children, which feels like alchemy and magic and often relief beyond imaginging.... you;ll pinch yourself when things just turn around and go better for you.... but it's the tools and strategies you're learning and using, IME.

Since you have a little time....maybe a month of this kind of calm..... please please consider reading The Parallel Process or something similar BEFORE psych evaluations begin.  For your own peace of mind, for the peace of your household and relationships with your children...... knowledge IS power and I do believe you have the ability to focus and learn, which I wasn't and couldn't, even if I'd had deecnt advice at the time, which I did not. 

Think of how a psych eval will go between you and your children..... say.....if you're instructed to sit and play Apples to Apples or some such board game.  What would that LOOK like for you?  If your GC is refusing tofollow the rules, or if she's name calling you or SG.... if a child pouts or refuses to continue..... how would YOU handle that?  How do you feel stbx would handle that?

The book I suggested will help you form new appropriate responses and communications strategiesto get you through this and to begin a more joyful, healthy life with your daughters, IME.  For a lifetime.... the girls will be learning something other than the only thing they know NOW....which is living a dysfunction life in an abusive home with a PD mum and likley enabling father who WILL do better once he knows better.... so learn to do better, EM and show the girls how.

I'm still diving into what part of the chaos is MINE and what belonged to the PDs in my life.  Your ability to self reflect, see what's there with clarity, accept it, not judge it but learn to do better will be HUGE in forming a new life.  I failed to put up boundaries and if I did.... I failed to enforce them consistently with my ASPD h and my PD first husband..... I had dysfunctional relationships with boyfriends before marrying PD men..... and I'm really figuring all that out NOW, which I find in layers and helps me understand... it's not about blame... it's about HOW and WHY I've made the choices I've made. 

Putting up with abusive behavior... actually making it possible for the abuser to ABUSE.... figuring out what my part was... how I participated in it...... helps me take responsibility, which the PD WILL NEVER DO.  It's human to make mistakes.  You will be judged by the people overseeing the systems... Judge's, Ts, lawyers....... your narrative should include some understading of how you got to this place with your stbx, and what you need to change, why and how you're doing it.  It should make sense and be in the children's best interests.... I'm talking nuts and bolts here.  Having a schematic on paper, internalized.... easily accessed as you move through this will help you remain calm an centered an responsive.... able to respond to your children, the Judge and attorneys and any T's during psych evaluations, but you don't have to worry about that in this moment. 

I would hope you set more appointments with your T and get SG into T, someone dealing with childhood crisis and trauma would be good.  I know you don't have control over all that, but keep pushing and asking and DOCUMENTING your struggle to get the girls into therapy.  The PD's refusal to get the girls' help, likely refusal to agree to it, likely sabotage of any T they DO receive will be something you CAN document.  That's coming up.  Just keep documenting and phrasing all communications to SHOW your priority and plan to get the children help and safety.  Avoid being abrasive and pushy and appearances of framing the PD or baiting her..... NEVER get snarky.  Never get defensive.  Remember, opportunies to EDUCATE can be made out of every siutation where you feel attacked or misunderstood.  It's OK.  It's an opportunity.

I would also hope the footnotes from The Parallel Process.. available somewhere on this board on the parenting forum I think.....maybe I already provided it... would help you find some calm, cultivate some strategies for dealing with SG's behaviors in the moment, which are very age appropiate, esp considering her mum's rages and erradic parenting...... that's a lot to upack.  You have to start somewhere and trust you're doing your very best, extend loads of self compassion, figure out a way to tackle the household jobs WITH SG.... this can be a opportunity to deploy new strategies and skills bringing you closer to her.... improving trust and communication and SG feeling safer with you..... trusting you're stable and able to protect her...... hold boundaries that keep HER safe, esp when she pictures GC returning to the home. 

WHat will that look like?  How do yu see that going?  I think practicing with SG over these small things will be HUGE and helpful when CG returns.  New habits and ways of responding... rather than reacting. 

In this calm....... research your bum off, EM.  Information is power.  Feeling embpowered and capable will support your mission and drive you forward in bringing this chapter to an end.

And... if you can't find the focus or the will to research or see your T more often or learn to breathe or walk or otherwise calm your Nervous System, then you can't and that's OK too.  I think everyone does the best they can in the moment.  Being overwhelmed is a state one learns to move through and out of..... and it's just moment to moment practices...... a returning back to it.... over and over.  I notice reactivity makes it darn near impossible to recover  from when BIG emotions are involved.... and that's OK too. 

Your intentions and will to move yourself and children into a safer calmer life is there.  Do what you can..... and trust things will work out.

  I DO trust you're doing your very best in every moment, EM.

[justducky]

hhaw, you are amazing. 

Validating her feelings....  then moving into problem solving mode.... ask her what her ideas are around solving the problems.....  make lists and include DD in every aspect..... always keep yourself OUT of the boundary setting and consequences so DD is left with HER actions, HEr consequencs and what SHE can do to resolve the issue,which is not about pleasing YOU or avoiding punishment.

It will be about learning self care, respect for herself and her living spaces and things...... not about pleasing you or being punished.  Take yourself out of the "problem" with new communication skills.....

I wish my parents had been able to do this. I'm sure many of us here feel the same way. Instead we were trapped in dysfunctional environments where everything was a power struggle. Thankfully enMom did model some problem-solving skills.

It was here where I first read about parents talking with kids about rules, chores, problem-solving, etc. It blew my mind. Then my husband and his family showed me how healthy families respect each other's boundaries and set limits while saying and showing that they love each other. Stuff gets done with minimal drama! Imagine that!

[escapingman]

Thank you so much for your support and advice, all of you! I can't respond to everything, but hhaw just wow.

Came home from a sporting event, SG was tired and started to play up a bit. I asked her to clear up her stuff and then to take away her plates she had left earlier. She got really angry and started screaming at me, then threatening me to take away my stuff, then screamed uncontrollable for a short time. But no PD reacted to her screaming so she calmed down, moaned a bit, and then did everything I asked for and ended up having a nice evening together. I never had to threaten or raise my voice once, all I did was staying consistent and told her I expected her to do these things. Amazing. Thanks everyone.

Next battle has started now, trying to agree finances and custody. This one will be tricky. Kids are my priority, but I can obviously not just surrender all finances to finalise this. I have no idea how uNPDx will react and how she will play this, she can go either way. But I feel stronger for every day of no contact. I really do.

[justducky]

Came home from a sporting event, SG was tired and started to play up a bit. I asked her to clear up her stuff and then to take away her plates she had left earlier. She got really angry and started screaming at me, then threatening me to take away my stuff, then screamed uncontrollable for a short time. But no PD reacted to her screaming so she calmed down, moaned a bit, and then did everything I asked for and ended up having a nice evening together. I never had to threaten or raise my voice once, all I did was staying consistent and told her I expected her to do these things. Amazing.

Fantastic! You and SG are establishing the new normal. Well done!