How to help (suspected) PPD sister to access help

[ppdsister]

TW: mention of abuse

Hi, I have an older sister (30 F) who has had continuous mental health issues due to the emotional and physical abuse of my dad in her childhood-teenage years. I was much younger at the time (currently 23, F) and my sister was the major one who copped the abuse at the time. As a result, she has been struggling through life- she is currently living at home with my parents and I (dad has stopped with the abuse a while back), and am leading an isolated life (cut off her friends, currently no job, not studying, gained a lot of weight due to not moving much at all (which is a major trigger and reason for her not going out as she has body image issues)). She has acted out violently towards me to the point where police were called over words or situations she took as a personal criticism or attack (examples on this in the extended version below). She sees a psychiatrist but only gets ADHD meds prescribed, when our family thinks she should be on medications or seeing a psychologist to manager her more obvious symptoms.

Summary: I suspected that she had bpd, but now more ppd as her most prominent feature from her act outs are:

Taking every innocent word/phrase a family member says and taking it as a personal attack [ Also brings up the situation after 3-4 hours and blows up]

Victimising herself in every situation(making up events/or words to suit her narrative if needed)

Not listening to/ignoring/acting out violently if a family member points out the flaws in her narrative that frames her as the victim

Thinking an action/voice tone/facial expression indicates a hidden meaning (an attack on her)
[/list]

Since her main symptom is taking everything as a criticism, it is hard for me or my parents to suggest therapy or even indicate that she may have a personality disorder.

Does anyone who has been in similar situations managed to get their family members to get proper help?

Extended version:
I have mentioned that I think she has bpd and needs to get help when she started violently acting out, which only amounted her into getting more violent and later telling me that "people with BPD are "proper crazy" people and not her" when she was more calm. This is more the case because she thinks she has a good knowledge on psychology as she reads a lot of psychology books and aspires to be a counsellor ,but often she co-opts psychological language to manipulate our family (eg. Her telling me I am gaslighting her when I pointed out that she threw a glass at me during her violent act-outs and hurt me).

Another thing to note is that when someone seemingly attacks her, she either 1) brings it up a couple of hours after (holding grudges) 2) gets back at the person that "attacked" her one way or another.

Examples of her taking everything as a personal attack:

I asked her where my makeup was, and she said: "Are you accusing me of stealing?". When I tried to clarify that i asked because she told me that she would "put all of my and her makeup in one place", which I assumed to be her room, she talked over me and pretended not to hear my point.

I told her that we should go to a specific restaurant for her birthday, but that my parents weren't so keen because the music was so loud. She answered that she didn't want to go out to a restaurant anyways. 4 hours after the conversation, when my parents were going to bed, she barged into their room and told them that I told her that our parents didn't want to go to said restaurant, and that she was upset because she should be the one being able to choose where to go on her birthday. The night ended up with her yelling, screaming and swearing at my parents. A day after, she came into my room to talk to me, and told me how i phrased the sentence made it seem like my parents didn't want to go to the restaurant. I said it was a misunderstanding, which she said it wasn't, and it specifically was MY fault in phrasing a sentence in a certain way, and was only happy after i apologised for something that was my fault.

My dad asked my sister to do the dishes. 10 minutes later my sister came out to the kitchen and declared to my mum and I that dad's dishes were done so poorly that there was leftover food everywhere- which is objectively false. My sister did it to get back at my dad for criticising her.

She yelled and swore at my mum because she sighed and had an attitude (attributed to her work being so overwhelming) and took it personally.
[/list]

There's a lot more, but the only ones I could remember right now are written above.

Would appreciate any help or support as being a family member with a personality disorder is really an isolating and confusing experience!

[xredshoesx]

what a difficult situation to be in- what you shared reminded me of what it was like when i lived with both my biological mother (uPBD) and her parents (uNPD/uBPD)-  with it always being a three ring circus with everything being about my mom and what she needed/ wanted.

in my area if the police are called and it is determined to be mental health related the person having the violent actions can be placed on a 72 hold in a psych ward.  is that something that could eventually happen if you all keep calling when she gets violent?

it sounds like you are the one holding everything together in that household.  you are the youngest and should be learning to live and be an adult in your own right and not being forced to caretake other adults.  i always felt had  i not made my BIG MOVE and broke all ties with my mother's family i'd still be the one in the middle of all the chaos of a codependent nightmare between her , her parents and my half brother/ uncle.

[guitarman]

I can identify with much of your post as I have an uBPD/NPD sister.

I have had to call for both police and ambulance services to help.

BPD is also known as Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder which explains it better.

I follow the author and counsellor Kris Godinez online. She specialises in Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and shows how targets of abuse can cope better.

Her YouTube channel is called "We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez". I have learnt a lot from her and continue to watch her regular videos.

I identify as living with CPTSD Complex Post Traumatic Syndrome because of all the trauma I've experienced over several decades due to my sister's erratic extremely abusive behaviour towards me and the rest of our family.

Many things have helped me over the years to understand what I am coping with.

I have been attending many mental health carers groups. You may like to contact your local carers organisation where you will find support for yourself. It's good to share with other people coping with similar but different issues.

Being isolated and not knowing what to do when you are coping with traumatic events is an awful feeling. We are not alone.

There are techniques to learn such as Grey Rock and Medium Chill which will help you not to get on your sister's emotional rollercoaster with her.

Observe don't absorb.

Set firm boundaries and stick with them.

Stay calm.

Learn not to be provoked into anger.

Learn not to feed the narcissistic supply.

Validate your sister's feelings.

Talk more about your feelings. Use "I ..." statements rather than "You ..." statements.

Practise Mindfulness meditations. I follow the Mindfulness teacher Tara Brach online.

Her website is
www.tarabrach.com

There are therapies available such as DBT Dialectical Behaviour Therapy initiated by Marsha Linehan and MBT Mentalization Based Treatment developed by Prof Anthony Bateman and Peter Fonagy.

These help people to regulate their emotions and become aware of them.

Much of what your sister seems to be doing is projecting her distress onto you and other members of your family. She maybe finding it difficult to cope with all the abuse from years ago that you explained about.

Therapy may help her but she may reject any offers of help.

It's awful to see other people in a crisis and in distress and we want to do anything to help them. However we need to look after our own wellbeing as well and it's OK to do that.

Stay calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[Janeite V]

This is such a difficult situation, and I feel for you. She sounds very manipulative and controlling.

I strongly agree with others here that focusing on protecting yourself from becoming trapped in this dynamic is so important. Months can turn into years, and this can become your normal far too easily. I hope you will be able to stay as safe as possible emotionally and physically until you are able to get out of this situation and flourish as your own person!

A lot of your anecdotes remind me of my vulnerable narcissist family member. He tried medication for a little but quit after a few weeks because he felt his mental health struggles were the fault of their environment and the toxic atmosphere of the household - though of course there were no steps towards leaving or conflict resolution.

There are moments of clarity but it so quickly reverts to blaming others. It can be tempting to take on some of this blame, especially when you are around it all the time. But it is important to remind yourself often of the three Cs - you didn't cause it, you cannot cure it, and you cannot control it.

It can be particularly difficult when the pwPD is a NEET (not in employment, education or training). Because they have a lot of time and energy to spare, they can end up using that to become more and more entrenched in their own disorders rather than in improving their own lives and those around them. Blaming other people is unfortunately a common way to cope with the shame and avoid accountability.

On the other hand, it is easier for psychologists and other outsiders to pick up on the dysfunction in the pwPD if they have been a NEET for a long time. Often pwPDs aren't told about their PD diagnosis if the psychiatrist judges it would detract from their progress, so it is quite possible she already has been diagnosed by her current psychiatrist.

[ppdsister]

what a difficult situation to be in- what you shared reminded me of what it was like when i lived with both my biological mother (uPBD) and her parents (uNPD/uBPD)-  with it always being a three ring circus with everything being about my mom and what she needed/ wanted.

in my area if the police are called and it is determined to be mental health related the person having the violent actions can be placed on a 72 hold in a psych ward.  is that something that could eventually happen if you all keep calling when she gets violent?

it sounds like you are the one holding everything together in that household.  you are the youngest and should be learning to live and be an adult in your own right and not being forced to caretake other adults.  i always felt had  i not made my BIG MOVE and broke all ties with my mother's family i'd still be the one in the middle of all the chaos of a codependent nightmare between her , her parents and my half brother/ uncle.

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences- and I'm so sorry you had to deal with multiple family members with PD, I'm struggling with one! [I also hope I am replying correctly- I am not used to these forums!]

I am aware of the 72 hours psych ward hold but I'm hoping it doesn't get to that point- her being forced into care I think would only aggravate her situation. Although if it does get to that point, I will call the police (even though when I did in the past, there were ramifications, and even blame from my parents- I still have some guilt due to that but I know that is what I had to do to protect myself, and that it isn't something to be guilty of.

Your last words really resonated- Thank you for looking out for me. I am doing pretty well and continue seeing a psychologist and psychiatrist, and have an amazing partner and a few friends that know of my situation. Despite the situation I do love my family and want to see my sister getting better whilst I live at home (which I plan to do for a while to save some money and also spend some time with my parents), but obviously if this works out to be detrimental to my mental health and a danger to my physical self, I will move out.

[ppdsister]

I can identify with much of your post as I have an uBPD/NPD sister.

I have had to call for both police and ambulance services to help.

BPD is also known as Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder which explains it better.

I follow the author and counsellor Kris Godinez online. She specialises in Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and shows how targets of abuse can cope better.

Her YouTube channel is called "We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez". I have learnt a lot from her and continue to watch her regular videos.

I identify as living with CPTSD Complex Post Traumatic Syndrome because of all the trauma I've experienced over several decades due to my sister's erratic extremely abusive behaviour towards me and the rest of our family.

Many things have helped me over the years to understand what I am coping with.

I have been attending many mental health carers groups. You may like to contact your local carers organisation where you will find support for yourself. It's good to share with other people coping with similar but different issues.

Being isolated and not knowing what to do when you are coping with traumatic events is an awful feeling. We are not alone.

There are techniques to learn such as Grey Rock and Medium Chill which will help you not to get on your sister's emotional rollercoaster with her.

Observe don't absorb.

Set firm boundaries and stick with them.

Stay calm.

Learn not to be provoked into anger.

Learn not to feed the narcissistic supply.

Validate your sister's feelings.

Talk more about your feelings. Use "I ..." statements rather than "You ..." statements.

Practise Mindfulness meditations. I follow the Mindfulness teacher Tara Brach online.

Her website is


There are therapies available such as DBT Dialectical Behaviour Therapy initiated by Marsha Linehan and MBT Mentalization Based Treatment developed by Prof Anthony Bateman and Peter Fonagy.

These help people to regulate their emotions and become aware of them.

Much of what your sister seems to be doing is projecting her distress onto you and other members of your family. She maybe finding it difficult to cope with all the abuse from years ago that you explained about.

Therapy may help her but she may reject any offers of help.

It's awful to see other people in a crisis and in distress and we want to do anything to help them. However we need to look after our own wellbeing as well and it's OK to do that.

Stay calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

Thank you so much for sharing great resources, I am definitely going to check them out. My sister has actually been recommended DBT by her psychiatrist, but in more of a group setting- which would mean admission. She was keen for this, but I don't think she is ready to take the leap (for various reasons, such as her cat getting sick and her being fearful that the ward she goes to is not productive and would just sedate her with meds)

[ppdsister]

This is such a difficult situation, and I feel for you. She sounds very manipulative and controlling.

I strongly agree with others here that focusing on protecting yourself from becoming trapped in this dynamic is so important. Months can turn into years, and this can become your normal far too easily. I hope you will be able to stay as safe as possible emotionally and physically until you are able to get out of this situation and flourish as your own person!

A lot of your anecdotes remind me of my vulnerable narcissist family member. He tried medication for a little but quit after a few weeks because he felt his mental health struggles were the fault of their environment and the toxic atmosphere of the household - though of course there were no steps towards leaving or conflict resolution.

There are moments of clarity but it so quickly reverts to blaming others. It can be tempting to take on some of this blame, especially when you are around it all the time. But it is important to remind yourself often of the three Cs - you didn't cause it, you cannot cure it, and you cannot control it.

It can be particularly difficult when the pwPD is a NEET (not in employment, education or training). Because they have a lot of time and energy to spare, they can end up using that to become more and more entrenched in their own disorders rather than in improving their own lives and those around them. Blaming other people is unfortunately a common way to cope with the shame and avoid accountability.

On the other hand, it is easier for psychologists and other outsiders to pick up on the dysfunction in the pwPD if they have been a NEET for a long time. Often pwPDs aren't told about their PD diagnosis if the psychiatrist judges it would detract from their progress, so it is quite possible she already has been diagnosed by her current psychiatrist.

Thank you for your kind words! And wow, this has been insightful. I was always frustrated that psychiatrists would not pick up on my sister's PD as she would spin her own version of the story, but it makes sense that they would not tell my sister of her diagnosis. The three Cs are a great way to ground myself, so thank you again for that.

[Janeite V]

Ppdsister, I hope the DBT group sessions do help her. Though DBT was designed for BPD, it can definitely help with a range of issues.

Hang in there and good on you for recognizing the abuse and seeking out support for yourself!

[guitarman]

It's unfortunate that DBT has not been offered to your sister in a community setting.

I know of a community based program where people living with BPD/EUPD are offered intensive DBT support every day of the week in a therapeutic group. It keeps them out of hospital. This seems to be ideal for some. It is what they need.

Maybe she will be offered something similar in the future if she is not willing or able to enter a residential hospital at the moment.

It's not her problem that she doesn't fit into the treatment plan offered. The therapy should be adapted for her, she shouldn't have to fit into what is already available. That is what is wrong with the system. The system should be adapted for her needs not the other way around.

So she has a cat that is ill. She should be able to take it with her or be provided care for it whilst she is under going treatment in hospital.

The mental health system needs to be flexible and act holistically but due to costs and underfunding it probably isn't able to.

Hopefully your sister will be able to get the support that she really needs and is entitled to.

The impact on other members of the family isn't taken into account. Carers can experience ongoing trauma when their loved one can't access the correct mental health treatment quickly. This can lead to them developing their own mental health issues with yet more costs for the mental health system.