Entitlement!

[p123]

Cheers WI - Im kicking myself for phoning him on Saturday. Should have just blocked him.

I've realised that no matter how many times I tell him that things like letters hes recieved or calls hes had, can wait until the next working day. They do not have to be dealt with 24/7 but he ignores this.

Right what you say about him finding minions. I've seen it over the years many many times.... He uses people, takes them for granted.

His older sister did his laundry for years because he refused to buy a washing machine. I asked her NOT to offer to force him to get a washing machine but she felt sorry for him.. It was REALLY funny years later when she was still doing it and couldnt cope. Her fault.

A lovely lady used to give him a life to church. He took advantage. Then he'd say "she never goes, or shes away all the time these days", then "shes selling her car". It was obvious this poor lady had had enough of him.

Currently his cousin takes him to hospital appointments. Carry on. This same cousin has criticised me in the past. I spoke to him the other day and laughed inside when he told me how Dad was taking advantage a bit. Welcome to my life - now you know.

I'd love to live in the US. Not only just to get away from Dad. Alas, I'd have to marry someone american I think!
(although I've heard you get like 10 days vacation a  YEAR. WOW WOW WOW! I cant do that!)

[Adrianna]

Oh yes they will find recruits. They always do. Bottom line is, and this was the hardest thing to accept, they don't care about you, your time, your life, your job, your feelings, your family, your needs. All they care about is what you can do for them. They don't even see us as people. We are servants. They are that self absorbed.

Nana has been trying to recruit a distant family member who in the past year had lost her husband and father. Woman's been through a lot. Usually I don't get involved but when she called me asking why my grandmother was trying to get her to do things for her, I warned her. Said you'll be in a life of servitude if you start. She's been keeping her distance which pisses my grandmother off. Yesterday my grandmother left her a message saying "I'm alive and in Hell" under the guise of her calling the wrong number (she does know another person by the same name). Unlikely she called the wrong number. The other person with same name is her neighbor who she's been badgering for years and knows her Number well.) Intent- get that new woman over there to check on her of course, suck her in, get the next victim in line. She called me and I said she's fine, just looking for attention and sympathy. I've told her if you want to visit or start doing things that's your choice but be warned. She's been through so much I felt I owed it to her to save her from the misery.

Nana has plenty of people going over every day of the week. It's not like she's abandoned. 

As it was the nephews wife who helps had a rough past couple years. Her husband had cancer, is doing well now, recovered, but I had warned this woman from the start, don't tell my grandmother. She would have made it all about herself, whine to everyone that her nephew has cancer to get attention and sympathy, what will she do, who will help her, his wife will be busy and unavailable, what will happen to HER? I said if you tell her about your husband's cancer, not only will you have to cope with his illness, you will have to calm down this woman and comfort her over your own husband's illness! How backwards is that? That's how it works in this pd world. She realizes now good thing she didn't tell her. It would have made the situation ten thousand times worse.

They will burn through caregivers. She had one nephews wife move across the continent. She was elderly herself and my grandmother treated her like a dog. This new nephews wife is hanging in there but she has to pray on the way over there for strength as do I! Keep in mind there will likely be flying monkeys along the way. On my case it's her neighbor and her husband. They have done a lot for her but are usually the ones who make excuses for her. "Oh it's just regular aging ."  No it's not. They would never treat their family that way. One of them had a pd father so was used to the emotional abuse and thinks it's normal. It's not.

[p123]

Oh yes they will find recruits. They always do. Bottom line is, and this was the hardest thing to accept, they don't care about you, your time, your life, your job, your feelings, your family, your needs. All they care about is what you can do for them. They don't even see us as people. We are servants. They are that self absorbed.

Nana has been trying to recruit a distant family member who in the past year had lost her husband and father. Woman's been through a lot. Usually I don't get involved but when she called me asking why my grandmother was trying to get her to do things for her, I warned her. Said you'll be in a life of servitude if you start. She's been keeping her distance which pisses my grandmother off. Yesterday my grandmother left her a message saying "I'm alive and in Hell" under the guise of her calling the wrong number (she does know another person by the same name). Unlikely she called the wrong number. The other person with same name is her neighbor who she's been badgering for years and knows her Number well.) Intent- get that new woman over there to check on her of course, suck her in, get the next victim in line. She called me and I said she's fine, just looking for attention and sympathy. I've told her if you want to visit or start doing things that's your choice but be warned. She's been through so much I felt I owed it to her to save her from the misery.

Nana has plenty of people going over every day of the week. It's not like she's abandoned. 

As it was the nephews wife who helps had a rough past couple years. Her husband had cancer, is doing well now, recovered, but I had warned this woman from the start, don't tell my grandmother. She would have made it all about herself, whine to everyone that her nephew has cancer to get attention and sympathy, what will she do, who will help her, his wife will be busy and unavailable, what will happen to HER? I said if you tell her about your husband's cancer, not only will you have to cope with his illness, you will have to calm down this woman and comfort her over your own husband's illness! How backwards is that? That's how it works in this pd world. She realizes now good thing she didn't tell her. It would have made the situation ten thousand times worse.

They will burn through caregivers. She had one nephews wife move across the continent. She was elderly herself and my grandmother treated her like a dog. This new nephews wife is hanging in there but she has to pray on the way over there for strength as do I! Keep in mind there will likely be flying monkeys along the way. On my case it's her neighbor and her husband. They have done a lot for her but are usually the ones who make excuses for her. "Oh it's just regular aging ."  No it's not. They would never treat their family that way. One of them had a pd father so was used to the emotional abuse and thinks it's normal. It's not.

Oh yes. Dad likes to rope in his minions. He once asked his cousin to push him around in his wheelchair for the day. Up hills etc. Cousin is 3 years younger than him and it made him ill. All because he "didn't want to take his mobility scooter".

Im sure Dad would have sat there thinking "this is great someone is pushing me arouind".

And yes Dad ignores everyone else. I've "reminded" him 100 times (given up now), no my wife cannot do his laundry because of her health problems (she has fibromyalgia, so some days walks with a stick), no I won't give my Aspergers teen a "clip around the ear" because I've got to sort something for him rather than visit you, and no 6 year olds don't understand when you tell them "no we can't go swimming now even though I promised".

At best he will give in and say "OK you can sort those things first". (What I need your permissions?) Which means its a day or two before its back to "what about me?"

[Adrianna]

It's ALL ABOUT THEM! All the time, every day, for as long as they live. It kind of amazes me how similar they all are. Do they all go by the same instruction manual? It's actually eerie.

And a life lesson in self respect for us. Sorry but no one on this planet deserves the treatment they dish out.

[Hazy111]

Mine wouldnt dream of having a mobility scooter, even though he conned me into visiting a shop trying one out etc . It was his way of getting me to visit and have some supply. This was done when my sister was on holiday of course so his supply could be regulated.

Mobility scooters you see are for old decrepit people  not him, even though hes registered disabled. A wheelchair is even worse, thats for really old ill decrepit people. He insists on pushing his like a zimmer even though he can barely walk. Ohh well not my problem anymore.

BTW Adrianna, ive said this before and ill say it again . Narcissists or PD people can be self aware of their condition, but they are still narcissists or PD. They have no control over their condition. They can adapt and play normal for a while , but that isnt them, that isnt their true PD selves so eventually they will resort back, as their behavior always brought "results". Its always there . Some are extremely intelligent like my father and so their "deployment" of their condition is/was extremely cunning and manipulative. Hes extremely well read on many subjects except one (which i have always encouraged , human psychology). I wonder why? When i tried to put a block on his incessant phone calls he actually said "I SUPPOSE ILL HAVE TO LOOK FOR A NEW SUPPLY" He actually used the word supply. Has he read up about narcissism?

[Adrianna]

I agree they can be self aware, especially the higher level narcissists who are closer to antisocial personality disorder. They know what they are doing and have no remorse doing it.

I do think a lot of them though lack the ability to Self reflect because their disorder prevents it. It's why they have a false self, the mask, which is the person they want to believe themselves to be. They deny introspection. It's too horrifying to see they either lack a sense of self (my therapists theory) or to see who they truly are which isn't good (my theory.) My grandmother has had fleeting moments of self reflection but they don't last.

The higher level narcs though I believe are aware, do it on purpose, can be sadistic, and know how to turn it on and turn it off.

I knew one though who wasn't high level and truly seemed to have no idea why he behaved the way he did, had no knowledge of narcissism, and was absolutely offended when it was suggested he look within himself. He was emotionally abusive but it was second nature to him. He had a strong false self which he fiercely defended.

My grandmothers behavior is dependent upon her audience. She is at a point now where sad to say she lies with ease. She sees the confusion, stress and mental torment she puts people through. However her needs come first, always. She will do whatever necessary to get her narcissistic supply.

[Hazy111]

Have you read "Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight", written by a law professor and Sunday school teacher. Fiercely intelligent, she is fully aware of her condition, her lack of empathy, the way she can "read" people and "use" them for her own ends. Why would she change, she cant change, it is her.

[p123]

Mine wouldnt dream of having a mobility scooter, even though he conned me into visiting a shop trying one out etc . It was his way of getting me to visit and have some supply. This was done when my sister was on holiday of course so his supply could be regulated.

Mobility scooters you see are for old decrepit people  not him, even though hes registered disabled. A wheelchair is even worse, thats for really old ill decrepit people. He insists on pushing his like a zimmer even though he can barely walk. Ohh well not my problem anymore.

BTW Adrianna, ive said this before and ill say it again . Narcissists or PD people can be self aware of their condition, but they are still narcissists or PD. They have no control over their condition. They can adapt and play normal for a while , but that isnt them, that isnt their true PD selves so eventually they will resort back, as their behavior always brought "results". Its always there . Some are extremely intelligent like my father and so their "deployment" of their condition is/was extremely cunning and manipulative. Hes extremely well read on many subjects except one (which i have always encouraged , human psychology). I wonder why? When i tried to put a block on his incessant phone calls he actually said "I SUPPOSE ILL HAVE TO LOOK FOR A NEW SUPPLY" He actually used the word supply. Has he read up about narcissism?

Oh the mobility scooter was a massive fight! In the end, he gave in. BUT hes clever. He lives in apartment on 1st floor - so scooter is stored outside. nowhere to charge battery - so someone has to carry the battery upstairs, plug it in, then replace it. I offered to get someone to fit an outside plug so it could be charged in situ - NO NO NO. Clever eh? Someones got to visit now to sort the battery (not me!) or hes "stuck in the house battery flat".

The wheelchair he loves. The warm fuzzy feeling he gets from him having the power to make someone else expend physical effort to push him around is something he loves! Hes made someone do it for him....

[p123]

I agree they can be self aware, especially the higher level narcissists who are closer to antisocial personality disorder. They know what they are doing and have no remorse doing it.

I do think a lot of them though lack the ability to Self reflect because their disorder prevents it. It's why they have a false self, the mask, which is the person they want to believe themselves to be. They deny introspection. It's too horrifying to see they either lack a sense of self (my therapists theory) or to see who they truly are which isn't good (my theory.) My grandmother has had fleeting moments of self reflection but they don't last.

The higher level narcs though I believe are aware, do it on purpose, can be sadistic, and know how to turn it on and turn it off.

I knew one though who wasn't high level and truly seemed to have no idea why he behaved the way he did, had no knowledge of narcissism, and was absolutely offended when it was suggested he look within himself. He was emotionally abusive but it was second nature to him. He had a strong false self which he fiercely defended.

My grandmothers behavior is dependent upon her audience. She is at a point now where sad to say she lies with ease. She sees the confusion, stress and mental torment she puts people through. However her needs come first, always. She will do whatever necessary to get her narcissistic supply.

I often look at my Dad and try and work out what hes doing. He'd have no idea what the word narcissist meant anyway.

I often imagine he sees a empty room with two things in. One is a 7 foot tall pile of papers that need to be sorted through which relate to him and his problems, next to this are two lonely pages which relate to me and my problems. Then he imagines me sitting in the corner, picking up the two pages, with a beer in my hand while hes trying to stop his pile collapsing over and I'm not helping at all.

[SunnyMeadow]

Hazy111, as soon as I read your post, I put a hold on the Confessions book on my library website. I'm looking forward to reading it. Thanks!

[SunnyMeadow]

I often look at my Dad and try and work out what hes doing. He'd have no idea what the word narcissist meant anyway.

I often imagine he sees a empty room with two things in. One is a 7 foot tall pile of papers that need to be sorted through which relate to him and his problems, next to this are two lonely pages which relate to me and my problems. Then he imagines me sitting in the corner, picking up the two pages, with a beer in my hand while hes trying to stop his pile collapsing over and I'm not helping at all.

That's a good way to describe it p123! I'll bet my mother sees things just this way too. Her problems are so much worse because she's ... ELDERLY 

My NPDmom has told me that various people we know are schizophrenic, narcissist and sociopath, all because they won't speak to her anymore. Narcissist applies to everyone but her.

[p123]

I often look at my Dad and try and work out what hes doing. He'd have no idea what the word narcissist meant anyway.

I often imagine he sees a empty room with two things in. One is a 7 foot tall pile of papers that need to be sorted through which relate to him and his problems, next to this are two lonely pages which relate to me and my problems. Then he imagines me sitting in the corner, picking up the two pages, with a beer in my hand while hes trying to stop his pile collapsing over and I'm not helping at all.

That's a good way to describe it p123! I'll bet my mother sees things just this way too. Her problems are so much worse because she's ... ELDERLY 

My NPDmom has told me that various people we know are schizophrenic, narcissist and sociopath, all because they won't speak to her anymore. Narcissist applies to everyone but her.

Aarrghhhhh - "Im old now so just a bit of help and you don't mind do you?" about 200 times I've heard it.
Of course, translates to "I can't be bothered to help myself, you need to do it, remember I brought you up and its your job now".

Other things I translate:-

"You know me I have to say whats on my mind" - translates to "I'll be rude as hell because I want to be"

"I get flustered these days. I am in my 80s" - translates to "I really can't be bothered to even think about it for 30 seconds. Why can't you just drive 25 miles to do it for me?"

"We were poor when I was younger so I don't like wasting money" - translates to "Im so cheap that I've got no intention of spending any money because I like having so much money in my account I could never spent it".

[Adrianna]

I agree they can be self aware, especially the higher level narcissists who are closer to antisocial personality disorder. They know what they are doing and have no remorse doing it.

I do think a lot of them though lack the ability to Self reflect because their disorder prevents it. It's why they have a false self, the mask, which is the person they want to believe themselves to be. They deny introspection. It's too horrifying to see they either lack a sense of self (my therapists theory) or to see who they truly are which isn't good (my theory.) My grandmother has had fleeting moments of self reflection but they don't last.

The higher level narcs though I believe are aware, do it on purpose, can be sadistic, and know how to turn it on and turn it off.

I knew one though who wasn't high level and truly seemed to have no idea why he behaved the way he did, had no knowledge of narcissism, and was absolutely offended when it was suggested he look within himself. He was emotionally abusive but it was second nature to him. He had a strong false self which he fiercely defended.

My grandmothers behavior is dependent upon her audience. She is at a point now where sad to say she lies with ease. She sees the confusion, stress and mental torment she puts people through. However her needs come first, always. She will do whatever necessary to get her narcissistic supply.

I often look at my Dad and try and work out what hes doing. He'd have no idea what the word narcissist meant anyway.

I often imagine he sees a empty room with two things in. One is a 7 foot tall pile of papers that need to be sorted through which relate to him and his problems, next to this are two lonely pages which relate to me and my problems. Then he imagines me sitting in the corner, picking up the two pages, with a beer in my hand while hes trying to stop his pile collapsing over and I'm not helping at all.

Great description and accurate! Except it applies to all humans on the planet not just you. No one has it as bad as them, ever, anywhere, on earth, in their mind. And if they are reminded otherwise it falls on deaf ears because they have no interest in other people's problems, only their own.

[p123]

I agree they can be self aware, especially the higher level narcissists who are closer to antisocial personality disorder. They know what they are doing and have no remorse doing it.

I do think a lot of them though lack the ability to Self reflect because their disorder prevents it. It's why they have a false self, the mask, which is the person they want to believe themselves to be. They deny introspection. It's too horrifying to see they either lack a sense of self (my therapists theory) or to see who they truly are which isn't good (my theory.) My grandmother has had fleeting moments of self reflection but they don't last.

The higher level narcs though I believe are aware, do it on purpose, can be sadistic, and know how to turn it on and turn it off.

I knew one though who wasn't high level and truly seemed to have no idea why he behaved the way he did, had no knowledge of narcissism, and was absolutely offended when it was suggested he look within himself. He was emotionally abusive but it was second nature to him. He had a strong false self which he fiercely defended.

My grandmothers behavior is dependent upon her audience. She is at a point now where sad to say she lies with ease. She sees the confusion, stress and mental torment she puts people through. However her needs come first, always. She will do whatever necessary to get her narcissistic supply.

I often look at my Dad and try and work out what hes doing. He'd have no idea what the word narcissist meant anyway.

I often imagine he sees a empty room with two things in. One is a 7 foot tall pile of papers that need to be sorted through which relate to him and his problems, next to this are two lonely pages which relate to me and my problems. Then he imagines me sitting in the corner, picking up the two pages, with a beer in my hand while hes trying to stop his pile collapsing over and I'm not helping at all.

Great description and accurate! Except it applies to all humans on the planet not just you. No one has it as bad as them, ever, anywhere, on earth, in their mind. And if they are reminded otherwise it falls on deaf ears because they have no interest in other people's problems, only their own.

Honestly a more miserable person you could not meet.....

I dread he ever gets ill. At the moment there is pretty much nothing wrong with him apart from wear and tear from being 85.

If hes ever slightly ill, he'll be a nightmare. If he gets a cold he calls the doctor out. If I Im ill he will phone me constantly telling me to go to hospital (even if its a cold!). Another personality disorder to add - is it munchausens?

[Adrianna]

Not sure but I know nana has pretty bad anxiety. Has had it for years. I have it too but hers is sometimes debilitating, probably because she's not working or busy and has time on her hands to think too much. She worries about everything. Right now it's the washing machine which she wants to replace.

I don't tell her anymore about any illnesses of anyone because she turns it around on herself. Couple years ago, after a suspicious biopsy, I was waiting for breast surgery to find out if I had cancer, which I did not thank God.  It was a stressful time. My mother had just died less than two months prior. I wasn't going to tell her about the surgery but I needed the weekend off and said listen, I'm stressed out here, been through a lot, this is why I need this weekend off,  cut me some slack. What did she do? Call the house and ask my husband "what about meeeeeee? Who's going to do things for me now?" That was the last time I told her anything about my medical issues. I have to see an oncologist twice a year for checkups on the breast because I'm considered high risk, I'm on tamoxifen, and I tell her absolutely nothing. I had a bat in my house last month and had to get rabies shots, and I told her nothing, They turn it all back to themselves, always. Do not tell your father anythung. This is going to sound awful and I'm sorry for saying it but I think that if they want us to call a doctor it's to make sure we're ok so we can CONTINUE TO DO THINGS FOR THEM. They fear the loss of a servant. Nana freaks out when someone is gong away or unavailable. To the point where she will likely fall into narcissistic collapse, doesn't want to get dressed, or eat, or bathe, giant pity party,  and will likely end up in ER.  This is why we can't tell her if we are going anywhere. She'll end up doing this then you can't go at all. I know someone whose father was similar and they could never tell him they were going away. He's figure out a way to make sure they cancelled their trip. For him. So his needs were met.

When my mother first got into hospital (she was there three weeks before she died) I told my grandmother I needed the weekend off and I'm sure the nephews wife would get her groceries. The next Monday I get a call from senior services saying " your grandmother called to say you had abandoned her and were never going to help her again. Do we need to set up more services for her?"  Nice, huh?

[p123]

Not sure but I know nana has pretty bad anxiety. Has had it for years. I have it too but hers is sometimes debilitating, probably because she's not working or busy and has time on her hands to think too much. She worries about everything. Right now it's the washing machine which she wants to replace.

I don't tell her anymore about any illnesses of anyone because she turns it around on herself. Couple years ago, after a suspicious biopsy, I was waiting for breast surgery to find out if I had cancer, which I did not thank God.  It was a stressful time. My mother had just died less than two months prior. I wasn't going to tell her about the surgery but I needed the weekend off and said listen, I'm stressed out here, been through a lot, this is why I need this weekend off,  cut me some slack. What did she do? Call the house and ask my husband "what about meeeeeee? Who's going to do things for me now?" That was the last time I told her anything about my medical issues. I have to see an oncologist twice a year for checkups on the breast because I'm considered high risk, I'm on tamoxifen, and I tell her absolutely nothing. I had a bat in my house last month and had to get rabies shots, and I told her nothing, They turn it all back to themselves, always. Do not tell your father anythung. This is going to sound awful and I'm sorry for saying it but I think that if they want us to call a doctor it's to make sure we're ok so we can CONTINUE TO DO THINGS FOR THEM. They fear the loss of a servant. Nana freaks out when someone is gong away or unavailable. To the point where she will likely fall into narcissistic collapse, doesn't want to get dressed, or eat, or bathe, giant pity party,  and will likely end up in ER.  This is why we can't tell her if we are going anywhere. She'll end up doing this then you can't go at all. I know someone whose father was similar and they could never tell him they were going away. He's figure out a way to make sure they cancelled their trip. For him. So his needs were met.

When my mother first got into hospital (she was there three weeks before she died) I told my grandmother I needed the weekend off and I'm sure the nephews wife would get her groceries. The next Monday I get a call from senior services saying " your grandmother called to say you had abandoned her and were never going to help her again. Do we need to set up more services for her?"  Nice, huh?

Yep Dad is ALWAYS ill a few days before we go away...

Wife and I have talked about. If he pulls a serious one a few days before we go, we're not going to cancel unless it is 100% verified as genuine by a doctor. I'd tell him I can't cancel unless a doctor signs a note. Even  if it is semi-serious, wife would still go with the kids and I'd follow on a day or two later.

I KNOW though Dad would say "I'll pay any money you lost" then offer me £200. Yeh right more like £2000 which he'd never believe.

He HATES me being on call/standby with work because it gives me an out. I keep telling him if I get called out, I aint doing your groceries but I will order it online for delivery. I am often tempted when lays the guilt on to pretend I've been called just to keep him in check - but thats probably not a nice thing to do by me.

True what you say about your own illness though. I've often thought "yeh all you care about is that you're servant is fit to work". I dont tell him either because he comes up with stupid ideas, keeps phoning me for an "update" and generally acts stupidly.

Got my wednesday night scheduled call later. Wish me luck. If hes going to go on about how my wife "should phone him on his birthday" then I'm going to flip. Also, after last weekend, where he wanted me to visit and I told him I was busy, hes not going let me off the hook this weekend. Can guarantee I'll get "no food", "desperate", "you have to visit", "make an effort" this call.

I am on call this weekend and I have my daugher all weekend (wife is working). I am VERY tempted to call him sunday and say, sorry, cant come called out. Is that bad of me? I just want to make it clear that I won't be FORCED into things.

Can guarantee if I say OK I'll get groceries delivered he'll say no I'm ok, so its all a scam just to get me there. Maybe I should do it.

[Adrianna]

You know my heart is breaking for you because no one who has never been through this can relate. There really is no peace in our heart and souls dealing with them. The stress they put us through is unreal, because you want to do the right thing, you want to help, but all efforts go unappreciated and you don't matter to him. At all. Plus your efforts are wasted because they are never happy.

I can't tell you what to do but I will tell you I reduced the calls and she figures things out eventually. I just delete the messages. I'm at a point now if I get a call from the agency (your grandmother said she's in misery and needs a doctor!) I'm not going to call back during work hours. That's what she wants. Me inconvenienced. She enjoys it. I think your father does too if you can let that sink in. They like to see us run in circles for them. You can see why no contact is the preferred choice for our healing and well-being.

It's an awful feeling when you dread picking up the phone to call someone. Or going to see them. Or even seeing their name on your caller id. These people are best avoided. I know it's no fun in their head. I have compassion. However the misery the inflict upon well meaning good hearted people truly is beyond belief.

Honestly I wouldn't even want to go at all anymore. Your daughter is witness to his dysfunction. She senses she's not loved by him. Kids know. It isn't healthy for her to even be around him.

I think you need to re-evaluate things. He can order groceries, he won't starve. Try to keep your children away from him. He has shown you he has no love for them. Or you sadly. His disorder prevents it.

[p123]

You know my heart is breaking for you because no one who has never been through this can relate. There really is no peace in our heart and souls dealing with them. The stress they put us through is unreal, because you want to do the right thing, you want to help, but all efforts go unappreciated and you don't matter to him. At all. Plus your efforts are wasted because they are never happy.

I can't tell you what to do but I will tell you I reduced the calls and she figures things out eventually. I just delete the messages. I'm at a point now if I get a call from the agency (your grandmother said she's in misery and needs a doctor!) I'm not going to call back during work hours. That's what she wants. Me inconvenienced. She enjoys it. I think your father does too if you can let that sink in. They like to see us run in circles for them. You can see why no contact is the preferred choice for our healing and well-being.

It's an awful feeling when you dread picking up the phone to call someone. Or going to see them. Or even seeing their name on your caller id. These people are best avoided. I know it's no fun in their head. I have compassion. However the misery the inflict upon well meaning good hearted people truly is beyond belief.

Honestly I wouldn't even want to go at all anymore. Your daughter is witness to his dysfunction. She senses she's not loved by him. Kids know. It isn't healthy for her to even be around him.

I think you need to re-evaluate things. He can order groceries, he won't starve. Try to keep your children away from him. He has shown you he has no love for them. Or you sadly. His disorder prevents it.

You know what Im glad I found this forum. Hearing others experiences which are spot on to what I get confirm that its not me being mean to him..... It cheers me up.

It also lovely to hear people facing the same. As you say, only you know. The amount of criticism I've had off family because of this....

But yes he does do this because, in some weird way, he likes it or it meets his needs. I'd say 95% of the time he doesn't need or want anything other than to involve me in doing something for him.

Last few months I haven't been rude, mean, or nasty to him at all but I have been a little firmer. The way hes fought back is, quite frankly, disgraceful to be honest. Some of the things he's tried on.

Every phone call and visit is something hes not happy about now. Honestly, its like a broken record. "I thought you would have visited today", "You have to visit".
I'll phone him on the way home from work tonight, he'll annoy me, he'll pretty much tell me I have to visit the weekend (because I didn't last weekend), I'll get really wound up, but I'll just think, three days peace before I have to deal with him at the weekend. When that comes, I'll psych myself up, prepare for another verbal lashing, try not to get too wound up, knowing one likely subject is going to be my wife again. Then 3-4 days peace until I have to speak to him again.

It is no relationship at the moment. It upsets me that, if he passed away tomorrow, my abiding memory is going to be how awful hes been to me the last few years.

My kids he doesn't care about. Their Gran visits and my youngest cries when she goes home. Tell her we've got to pop up Grampys and she moans she doesn't want to go. Hes not bothered at all.

[bloomie]

It looks like it has been a good conversation and this thread has reached the 5 page max our guidelines allow. Please feel free to continue the conversation by starting a new thread. We are going to lock this one for length.