My Story of Marriage to Avoidant Husband

[Worthy of Care]

Part 1: My Story of Marriage to Avoidant Husband

I feel compelled to share my story (in parts). I'm trying to understand the relationship. Also, it has been a fairly lonely journey. I'm sure some here will be able to relate to parts of what I share. I've also spent most of my M "protecting" my H by not talking about him. I'm done protecting him. Questions and comments are welcome, but keep in mind that I'm going to tell about my marriage in pieces, not all 26 years at once.

Throughout the first two decades of our marriage, I had the belief/assumption that both of us wanted unity/oneness/emotional intimacy. I often felt hurt or sometimes just a feeling that something was off. We have children so a lot of family time took time and energy.

Not knowing anything about AVPD (avoidant personality disorder), I had many thoughts about what was wrong. My H just needed to learn to express feelings and care. He didn't have it growing up (true), so he needed to learn. I was just too needy. I wasn't a good enough wife. I was too assertive, causing him to be passive. I'm sure there are many more, but that's what comes to mind now.

There were many things that I did in an effort to bring intimacy into our marriage. Some of the efforts were deliberate and some unconscious. I asked directly for what I needed. Eg., I let him know many times that I needed touch outside of our sexual relationship. Sometimes he would make an effort for a brief time. Once I remember him telling me that since I asked him, he couldn't do that. What??? I tried the "therapy" statements: "I feel _________ when ________." I tried being a "better wife." I tried (pretty unsuccessfully! ) being more quiet and submissive (teaching from some churches). I did things for him (as you would for anyone that you care about). I'm sad and ashamed to say, that I often was angry and hurtful in my efforts to bring intimacy. We did see a therapist briefly during this time period. He was a lousy therapist; not much help.

There would be moments of feeling connected, but for the most part, I continued to feel alone and confused.

Recently I have learned that Avoidants react to closeness or attempts at intimacy by putting up another wall. As I stated, I didn't know anything about AVPD during those first 20 years. I kept trying to knock down his walls, and because I was trying to knock down walls, he kept building more walls. 

[Poison Ivy]

I can relate to many parts of this post. Thank you for your clarity.

[Worthy of Care]

Part 2: My Story of Marriage to Avoidant Husband

Approximately twenty years into our marriage, I heard a message given at church by a Christian psychologist. He talked about intimacy. It opened my eyes to see that within our marriage, I desired intimacy, but I was alone. In an attempt to create intimacy, I had become a toxic person in the relationship. I still made efforts for intimacy, at this point still not knowing about AVPD, and assumed my H could grow in his ability for closeness.

Some time after this, I briefly saw a therapist. We talked about my relationship with my husband. At this point I was beginning to describe what was going on (still without knowledge of AVPD) and I was beginning to give up hope that the relationship would change. I wrote my H a lengthy letter. I don't remember all the details, but I gave several examples of, "I feel the door to intimacy close when . . ."

He didn't respond to a letter. After a week, I asked him about it. He said he was hurt and needed more time to process. Again, more time went by with no response. I eventually brought it up again. I don't remember his response, but I think that he denied any of the reality of what I said.

From that point on, I tried to stop having expectations of closeness. At that point, I had very few tools to help me. The therapist was only for a short time, so I no longer had her support either. I wasn't too good at stopping my expectations, but I was starting down a new road in my thinking about the relationship.

[SonofThunder]

I have no comments at this time, and am sorry you have experienced an AVPD.  I am interested in your experiences and am reading your thread. 

SoT

[FayDHM]

WOC,

I can feel the pain in your writing and my heart aches for you. I am and have been going through similar. It’s lonely and it hurts-A LOT.

For me, the first couple of decades were lots of highs and lows. The lows were devastating, and I suffered debilitating depression, anxiety and CPTSD. Not sure if my H is AVPD, but he does have an emotional wall that I feel I will never break through. I have never seen him cry. Meanwhile, I have cried enough tears to fill an Olympic-sized pool. It feels so imbalanced.

So I have experienced much of the same,- me thinking I could get through if I just tried hard enough, encouraged communication, etc. Occasionally, there were breakthroughs - therapy together, therapy apart. But still, a wall. It seemed like a process of taking bricks down, starting to see some light shine through, then more bricks go up - no real progress made.

Now... it feels like the wall is insurmountable. I feel deeply lonely, much of it because of the pandemic, but mostly because I have no emotional support. Not what I signed up for and it doesn’t sound like what you signed up for either.

I don’t have solutions, but I do empathize. You’re not alone - your feelings are valid, real and difficult to navigate. Hugs to you- this is heart wrenching stuff.

[tragedy or hope]

I can relate to your pain. You sound like a dear soul, who never imagined you could live with someone who just didn't seem to care.

I am married 50 years. I did all of the above. The crying, the therapists, the sermons, the doing good etc. The women's studies, being a "better" wife ad nauseum. I only came to understand what it is all about on this site in the last year or so, imagine that!

The truth for us is shocking and comes when it is time. We spend our lives working on only one sided relationships. I often would try to talk...  He would put his feet up, lay his head back, close his eyes and say, "so what do you want me to do about it!?" As if telling me "you are boring me to death."

He has not changed in 50 years. No one is inside there. What I see is what I get. I could not comprehend that in my younger years. It did not seem possible. He used to tell me he had nothing more to give, even invited me to find someone else...

The worst part is the grief over the death of something we had hoped for but will never have with the person  we loved the most.

The indignation he has displayed toward me in my most broken moments could not have been more cruel.

You have choices now that you are becoming aware. He is out of the equation unfortunately, because he will not change. He does not care to change. He is happy with who he is, you are not. You don't need to do anything right now, when the grief comes over you, embrace yourself. This concept may be new to you.

You can make changes which will require a reevaluation of what is important to you. This is a very hard thing. I stayed because I refused to break up the home of my children and I have set spiritual convictions. I don't regret it. I have come a long way over the years to become more independent.

He has his own "construct" in his head of what this "relationship" is. He cannot "share" a feeling because he is so limited. He can fake a reaction, love bomb etc, but the sharing has not been there.

I welcome you to this site. Please keep coming back to share. Do some independent reading as people here recommend. You are now not alone in this.  Although you may not know us personally, we are with you in many ways. If nothing else, we have compassion for your circumstances.

[1footouttadefog]

I can relate to the long drawn out marriage in which you are never known with real intimacy.

I have had friendships where I had been known better be a friend than my spouse will ever know me.  I had a couple at church that we were friends with.  The husband played with woodworking as a hobby.  He took apart an old piece of furniture and made cutting boards.  He had them in the counter in his shop.  I was called to stop in the way home from work to pick mine up.  He said pick the one you want then I will give the rest out.  There was one that stood out.  It was me.  He likely knew this but did not want to give me what others would probably have seen as a flaw.  The wood in that piece was very multi colored and some folks would see it as dirty, and or flawed. It had been hidden behind a layer of veneer he had stripped off. 

It was touching that someone I had not known long had been able to know me enough to give me first chance at that cutting board.  When a man I have been married to for decades buys gifts for someone I have never met, lol. 

There was a crazy bartender in our area who could make you a perfect cocktail by asking you to choose between colors, seasons and vacation locations, then making you a drink.  I have often though while that is a cool bar trick, I wish he could teach it to my husband. 

[Worthy of Care]

To those who read and responded; thank you. Although I've had some support, for the most part, this journey has felt very alone. Your words are meaningful to me. I hope to respond more specifically at another time.

[FayDHM]

Tragedy or Hope said:

"The worst part is the grief over the death of something we had hoped for but will never have with the person  we loved the most.

The indignation he has displayed toward me in my most broken moments could not have been more cruel."

So well said, that first part. It's excruciating sometimes. Especially since I have no family, no children, and H's family is it's own dysfunctional amusement park.
I went NC with FOO many years ago , and grieving the family I never had was one of the most painful experiences I have ever lived through.

AS to the cruelty of  your H's indignation  at your most broken. I have been there many times. It's retraumatizing for me - especially because my NPDmother was similarly cold to me when I was most vulnerable.

Same with the talking - he clearly doesn't want to participate but acts like he is doing me a huge favor. He seems bored, gets angry, then can't end the discussion soon enough. It's so childish.

I am convinced that some people's traumas can lead to them being emotionally stuck at that particular age. Something shut that part of them down at almost likely a young age. Self-protection becomes their M.O. They seem so rigid about it - even some know better, but they're so married to their way of doing things that nothing penetrates their stubbornness. Some would rather be terribly unhealthy and unhappy  if it means they don't have to  change, bend, be vulnerable or examine their own darknesses.

[Worthy of Care]

Part 3: My Story of Marriage to Avoidant Husband

There was a message in church about marriage. I asked my husband what he wanted in our marriage. (In this instance, it was a question of curiosity and not asked in an effort to gain intimacy.) He talked about how unhappy he was in our marriage and he said that maybe it was time to see a counselor again. (Oddly, he later adamantly denied being the one to suggest therapy. To this day, I still have no idea why.) I contacted a therapist. For awhile we saw someone once every two weeks. After a few months, the trauma from my childhood came to the surface. Things shifted and I saw the T individually 3x/month and we had marriage therapy 1x/month. Later there was another change and I was having individual therapy and there was no marriage therapy. That was based more on my needs and our finances than on my H not wanting to go to marriage therapy.

For the most part, it seemed that, from my H's point of view, marriage therapy involved him learning what to do to make me more okay with the relationship.

We tried marriage therapy again with another therapist. I was still seeing T1. There is a long story involved with all of that, but the bottom line is that I started seeing T2 individually and we saw T2 in marriage therapy.

We had not had too many marriage sessions (5-6) when covid hit. My H did not want to to therapy online. I continued to see T2 via the internet.


Part 4: My Story of Marriage to Avoidant Husband

An incident happened with my H where I was waiting for him to come and sit by me in a gathering. He never came over. At home I was telling him how upset I was. He gave excuses and then left the room while I was in mid-sentence. I was really upset and later was telling my therapist what happened. My T said, "He's really avoidant." and later, "He has avoidant attachment style." I looked up "avoidant" online. It truly was a lightbulb moment. Some of the online articles gave lists of avoidant characteristics and behavior. I looked at the lists and could put a check mark on about 9/10 behaviors. Wow! Even some actions that I thought of as odd, I read on an online description. For example, one site said that some people with AVPD will walk several steps ahead of everyone else. Oh my goodness! My H does that. To learn about AVPD put definition and context to what I had been feeling and experiencing for 25 years. The articles also talked about how difficult it was to see and how crazy-making it is for those in relationship to those with AVPD. Having this information has been life-changing for me.

[Worthy of Care]

Part 4: My Story of Marriage to Avoidant Husband

After learning that my H is avoidant, I started making more changes in how I viewed the relationship. Before that, I had been trying to give up hope on the relationship changing, based on experience. Although hope didn't completely die, I had much less hope of him changing since I understood that it wasn't just a matter of him needing to learn about feelings and relationship. The issues were much deeper.

I pulled back from being the energy behind the relationship.

I stopped making efforts to be with him. We really have pretty much lived in separate rooms since then. (Still same bedroom. An issue for another time.) This has been hard for me. It has made me feel crazy to be in the same house with very little communication or even proximity. Some of the crazy feeling is connected to my trauma. Some is just because it is so disfunctional. My T reminds me that my H is in his happy place---alone and not having to give or connect. That is so contrary to who I am, it has been really hard for me to accept that H isn't disturbed by the separateness.

When I first learned about AVPD, I drew the vision that I had, which was my H in a very solid cube. The cube had no doors or windows. He was in the middle and was surrounded by wall after wall. In the drawing, I named some of the walls that I saw (eg. silence, cynicism, excuses, humor, etc.). I drew another picture of me in a garbage dump. I had garbage bags on and around me with labels such as "bitterness, hurt, anger, etc." Those are the things that I currently bear as a result of his avoidance.

I haven't been perfect in my letting go of hope or of not putting energy into the relationship, but I am growing. For example, I had bought a special gift for my daughter. I was excited about it and showed my H.  No reaction from him. It hurt a little, but it was a reminder that I am not going to get responses from him that lead to connection. Another example, we were sitting next to each other at a significant event. My instinct was to put my hand on his back. I didn't.

For the most part, we are polite to each other with limited communication and limited contact.

Part 5: My Story of Marriage to Avoidant Husband; The Present Time

Background to the next event:  I had let go of a lot of hope in the relationship. I still had some hope and a great deal of it centered on my desire that he see a therapist and would be able to really look at himself and work toward real change.

There was talk of my H seeing a therapist. (I say that in a simple sentence, but the details were over months and involved confusion and complexity.) I told my H, "It doesn't matter what I think or say. If you see a therapist, it is about you deciding to deal with your stuff, your issues." He said, "I don't think that I want to do that then."

To me, that was the nail in the marriage coffin. As horrible as that weekend was, it was an answer to my prayers. It was the truth. There was no growth or healing that was going to happen within him and therefore within our marriage. Those three days were horrible. I couldn't stand to be around him, but he was home. At one point I went to a parking lot and sat in my car and journaled. I was really distressed. At home, I took xanax and slept. It felt unbearable to me. I couldn't keep acting like everything was okay (to H it was okay). It was a death.

In my next session, my therapist helped me to see that there were options other than "live with it like it is" and divorce. Those were the only options that I saw. I still have decisions to make, but I do have choices.

It is still really difficult and painful living with a H with whom I only have a superficial relationship. I can't say all hope has died, but it is pretty minimal and that is a good thing. I am growing in NOT having expectations of him. My heart still hurts. I'm bitter and angry. That seeps out a lot. Right now I feel like I get angry at almost everything my H says and does. I have 26 years of hurt. Living like everything is okay, while I'm in turmoil, is still crazy-making to me. I still struggle with knowing the reality of his AVPD. He seems so nice and normal to others.

Part 6: My Story of Marriage to Avoidant Husband; The Future

My hope for the future is that I let go of almost all expectations of H. I have a fairly good support system, but I want to grow that. I want to live my life and do the things that I want to do with people who know me. I don't think there will be a time when I don't feel some hurt. As my T said, "we weren't made to be avoided." As I accept the reality of the relationship and learn to live in ways that are fulfilling to me, I believe the hurt will be minimal. My hope for the future is that I navigate this swamp of toxic anger, bitterness, disdain; and come to a place of joy and peace.

[square]

Things I can really relate to:

1) Letting go of hope. I'm naturally optimisttic and also a problem solver (H actively valued this in me). Hope dies hard. I've mostly killed it but sometimes I catch it popping up again, sigh. While I consider the circumstance terrible I do feel there was a positive growth in me here to learn to let other people be themselves and live their lives without "fixing," and to really accept that.

2) Pulling back, and the result of having almost no connection. A little different from you, though - my husband is not happy with it. I pulled back to protect myself, then he pulled back to protect himself. I can't handle the emotional ups and downs and feeling like I never know what I'm going to get, and walking into traps all the time. I loathe this dark gray world but I choose its relative calm over the alternative. I too have learned not to put my arm around him. I too have learned that significant events or gifts or news will nit garner any interest, and while I acknowledge that he does not owe me or anyone else that interest, it still hurts.

3) My husband has also shut the door on growth, in a number of ways. He has ended all relationships except the threads left between him and me and our DD. When I have broached my serious concerns about his medication, he totally shuts me down - he hasn't even heard (I mean literally I have not been able to get to explaining) the specific concerns I have, which kind of kills me since a stupid medication may have literally ruined both our lives. I have to accept that is his choice. He surely has PTSD as well, and is not able to consider working on that, but that part I have much compassion for. It's devestating to even think about some traumas. Anyway, he has shut the door on the world and has no plans, no future, no hopes. Life is over.

[FayDHM]

It seems like we are all in different stages of the same painful growth experiences, disappointments and rejections. No matter how much awareness we have that we can continue to grow as people without them holding us back, it still hurts.  A lot.

A note about "fixing" people- square, this is so true. We can only fix ourselves. The problem is how can a marriage be fixed by one person? It can't. This is the spot we are all in- a cruel, unfair purgatory.

WOC said:
" I want to live my life and do the things that I want to do with people who know me."

This really struck a chord with me. I try to envision the rest of my life the way it is with him - and it is bleak. Right now is a particular horrible time - he's going on 2 years of caretaking a parent who had a stage 5 cancer diagnosis and was expected to live for 3-6 months. It's terminal, but the parent is still hanging in , and DH grows more unbearable by the day. At least it means he is gone more often- so I get peace and perspective.

[1footouttadefog]

Quote: With people that know me.

This is an important sentence.

So often we read here at Out of the FOG how the non partner is not known by their own spouse and life partner. 

If I lived a week with a random person from the grocery store I would know that person more than my spouse knows me after decades.

Fortier more the pds often destroy our friendships and make other relations ships harder than they have the be. 

[Worthy of Care]

Poison Ivy, thank you for reading and responding.

Son of Thunder, thank you for reading.

FayDHM, I'm sorry that you also experience emotional walls from your husband. Yes, it is really painful. Thank you for listening and understanding.

tragedy or hope, I'm so grateful for what you shared. Hard to imagine that you endured your H's coldness for 50 years. The image of your H putting his feet up and head back when you tried to talk to him is haunting. Mine didn't do that, but he gave me the message that he didn't want to hear me in many ways.

No one is inside there.

I have felt like I am married to a ghost. There have been times where I wanted to poke him; "Is anyone there?"

The worst part is the grief over the death of something we had hoped for but will never have with the person  we loved the most.

The indignation he has displayed toward me in my most broken moments could not have been more cruel.

"Grief over the death" is exactly right. Interesting that you used the word "cruel." My T used that word last week when we were talking about my marriage. He said the inability to empathize or be compassionate is cruel. I'm sorry for what you have been through. Thank you for sharing your experience with me. It means a lot.

1 footouttadefog,

I have had friendships where I had been known better be a friend than my spouse will ever know me.

If I lived a week with a random person from the grocery store I would know that person more than my spouse knows me after decades.

I am grateful for many deep friendships. My T has equated the depth of relationship with my H to the depth of the relationship one has to the grocery store clerk. That's true.

Square, thank you for reading and for sharing what you related to. Letting go of hope is really hard. I don't know that I will ever completely let go, but like you, I've mostly killed it but it pops up again.

[SonofThunder]

Hi Worthy of Care,

Thank you for writing about your avoidant husband, and im sorry you have experienced decades of life trying to connect with him.  For my further understanding, I have four questions.

Looking back to your dating time with him prior to marriage;

1. How long did you date each other prior to marriage?

2. Do you believe you experienced AVPD traits in him during dating, or did he mask  them behind a facade-personality that otherwise projected what he thought YOU were looking for in a mate?

3. In Part 5, you wrote:  "In my next session, my therapist helped me to see that there were options other than "live with it like it is" and divorce."

Will you please expand on that statement to include the therapist's explanation?

4. This thread is not in the 'religious' board section, so I will not expand on any religious topic on this thread.  But, for my own context in understanding your therapist's point of view in the expanded statement of #3, will you also state whether the therapist practices around the boundaries of his/her religious beliefs or a therapist that separates the practice from his/her religious beliefs?

Thank you kindly,

SoT

[Lauren17]

Hi WOC,

Thank you for sharing your story.
You are not alone.
As the spouse of a person with a very avoidant attachment style, let me say that again. 
You are not alone.

I exactly understand where you're coming from. I've been in a marriage like that for over 20 years as well.

I've tried the Yale communication method that you describe. He responded with silence.
We've tried marriage counseling.
Short answers or shrugs were the only responses he gave to the T.
He's walked out of the room in the middle of my sentence on more than one occasion.
He interrupts with a joke when the topic is uncomfortable.
He's given me the "hurry up" hand motion when I'm talking.
He's whistled, turned on the TV, turned up the car radio when I'm talking.

I know the loneliness and the frustration. The despair. And I remember thinking. "I just need somebody to talk to!"

I encourage you to learn about radical acceptance. It sounds like you're building a support network and working on your own growth. Keep the focus there. Come here for help when it's hard.

Would you be willing to share some references on avoidant personality style?  I'd like to learn more.

[square]

Have you read up on insecure avoidant attachment in childhood? I like to understand things; maybe understanding its origins could be useful to you in providing some context for what he does.

[Poison Ivy]

Here is one of many resources about avoidant personality disorder. My ex-husband probably has it.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/avoidant-personality-disorders

[Lauren17]

Thanks, Poison Ivy. That was informative. My stbxh certainly meets those characteristics. He also displays very narcissistic traits.
I'm wondering how often an avoidant  personality occurs along with covert narcissism. I found one site that discusses that.  But it was a professional paper and I couldn't follow much past the abstract. 
WOC, I don't want to hijack your post.
Another question for you. How did your H respond when "drew back from the marriage"? Did he get silently angry, or did he withdraw more?