Deliberate lack of affection

tragedy or hope · November 10, 2020, 07:05:19 PM

I am in the midst of the punishment stage of a narcissistic wounding that happened over the weekend with my unpdh. I was not supposed to pursue a line of questions about his texting a friends wife. Because of his grandiosity he assumed I was jealous immediately,

He has behaved in a manner to cause me to feel jealous, but this was not one of those situations. Although unpdh's often use flirting to injure their target person,

He is supposed to be a Christian. He "supposedly" teaches a group of men as he refers to it. He has not physically touched me or kissed me since Saturday. Oh, we are talking etc. and all else is normal, but he slinks like a cat from close situations. He knows i see this because it is abnormal. i will not acknowledge this game.

When he gets this wounded he often tells me I need to learn "something"... so he finds ways to act coy while doing something hateful or hurtful. For the last two days, he wakes up kind of morose. He snaps out of it, and I do not give it any attention. I am doing MC and JADE for my own sanity. The weekends conversation never got resolved as is normal with N's.

I want to know how others deal with this. He often goes to his groups when he has been hateful to me, unkind, punishing. Doesn't even flinch when he comes nome and gets back into character.

He's so sick he will forget himself, call me sweetheart, give me compliment but deliberately keep his distance. I have prayed that when I wake every morning that I am reminded that I am living with mental illness, which in my faith base is nothing more than an overly active ego ie: sin, for which he will not try to ask for help, and of course thinks it's everyone else but him.

Lauren17 · November 11, 2020, 11:02:45 AM

ToH, I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Withholding affection is/was a favorite punishment of my H. It was exactly as your describe. He would perceive some insult, he would act 100% normally, but if I tried to touch him, he would physically withdraw. Sometimes he would even push me away. I tried open communication, apologizing, making a joke out of it, begging, etc. But then, I realized that every time I initiated contact and he rebuffed me, that gave him more power. So I just stopped. The same idea as ignoring silent treatment, I guess.
I set and held a pretty firm boundary in April 2019. He hasn't touched me at all since then. Not even a pat on the back. And he's moved into the spare bedroom. It's lonely, but it's better than before.
Please be clear that this behavior is emotional abuse. No one deserves to be "punished" that way. I highly recommend you find a therapist to help you with this.

SparkStillLit · November 11, 2020, 02:54:58 PM

Hello,
This is also a favorite punishment here, and I have experienced it for 4 weeks now. I have it on ignore. He is escalating. I have that on ignore as well. I don't care. If he wants to serve me, FINE. I'll deal with it. Then I'll do all the stuff I wanted to do. I JUST can't be bothered. It's not a good tool anymore. My friends hug me and love me and kiss my cheeks (they'd better not be covidy). That will have to do.
I just have to trust that I can come through, and I am loved, and surrounded by love, though not from him. He's just one person.

tragedy or hope · November 11, 2020, 06:29:20 PM

Thank you for confirming this is not uncommon. Who knows where this will end. When we had "surprise" guests for a few day recently... I was suspicious weeks before he was on such good behavior. He had been encouraging the guy to come see us from 2600 miles away... and he did. He and his wife without so much as a phone call until they were in town. THAT my friends is how bad his need for N feed has gotten.

Now he is covertly hostile by his tone, off and on, it's like him smiling while telling me to go to h-ll.

All this is for ME his target. Only I now know the diabolical hatred behind it. It is meant only for me. I am spending hours reading and listening to drs, advise about Narcs.

I wish I could be like SparkSL. Maybe someday I will get there.

Yes, ignoring does escalate it. But it also gives us some peace during the process. I am still finding Orange Juice on the walls and carpet that he threw over the weekend. I guess having "guests" made him prolong his self-control. It took about a week and a half for him to escalate. This due to some simple questions.

It is definitely his self hatred. I really don't care. I pity him most of the time. Under all of that is a man who I thought was lovable enough to have 3 children with...
but I was young and ignorant that Narc. existed. this is very long marriage, because I did not know they don't change. I was going to al anon where they offer hope and many people see their loved ones hit bottom. I had no idea there would be no bottom here. I tried to leave about 25 years ago, but my spiritual commitment and fear kept me from following through. Now, I would be a very poor older woman if I left.

I just have to deal with my life now. I can't regret the past. I do think he is beginning to feel a sense that I know what is wrong with him and I think it is kind of making him worse. He has very little to cover it up with anymore. it's all exposed and I usually deal with it directly, in truth and concisely. This too escalates him.

I have been listening to Dr. Ramani on youtube and I feel that she gets it.
Lite and polite is the name of the game. NO talk of feelings or things that might matter to me. Praise on him if I want some semblance of peace and now the hard part...
Finding support during covid. I have a few friends who know and care. But I need to work on having a life.

SparkStillLit · November 11, 2020, 07:30:59 PM

Heyyyyyy. It gets to me. He has loads of other behaviors that tick me off. I don't always handle it well. Just that part....I'm pretty immune to it now. I'm middle aged, and I'm in no position to leave, either. I gave it a real good look. That ticked me off, too, how over the years he set himself up so nicely and me so stupidly unprotected and overlooking everything. My T says don't waste my energy there right now. Protect myself in the situation I'm in.
So...I'm trying. Trying to mutually support my sisters and brothers along the way as we find ourselves in similar situations.
My friends are a saving grace. My FOO is yuck. I just recently decided to step out and lean hard on my friends, and what a lovely and loving bunch they are. Updh had rather gotten in my head lately and I was terribly isolated. I got sick. Physically and mentally. (The two were related). I'm still sick, but healing. I got therapy and unburied my friends, who just absolutely drowned me with love and caring. They didn't care that I'd been withdrawn for so long. We get buried under PD and we forget what The Real World is like. We keep getting told that PD Land IS real, and we believe it. Well, it's not.
Find your lovelies and accept their love. There's your Creator's love right there.

tragedy or hope · November 12, 2020, 09:10:59 PM

SparkSL,
thank you. That was so comforting.

I am working on being more open with trusted friends. I have carried the weight of this problem far too long. Thankfully, we have been awakened.

Lauren17 · November 12, 2020, 10:31:52 PM

Spark, that was beautiful. I'm tearing up right now.
Thank you.

SparkStillLit · November 13, 2020, 09:17:09 AM

Aw, you're welcome. I know it's not the same, but love to you guys anyway. You help me too, all the time. ❤❤❤❤❤❤

Mary · November 22, 2020, 11:36:07 PM

Yes I can relate. He will be nice and normal to everyone else in the house but punish me in the bedroom or by refusing to take the family to church or not letting one of the kids go with me to visit family....
I really rely on him forgetting the issue at some point, or making his way around to the nice side of the abuse cycle. Sometimes it helps to just play dumb, to not notice. And yes giving him supply in other areas can bring breakthrough ( in the short term of course.) It all happens covertly enough that the kids don't notice a lot of it which is my main objective. When I'm at your stage will it get easier to put up with I'm wondering?

SparkStillLit · November 23, 2020, 08:00:20 AM

It's a tool he's using. It's not effective on me anymore. He still tries it from time to time, but it's pretty far between. I'm beginning to see that this "toolbox" of his has limits. He doesn't have endless things in there.
But back to what you were asking. I guess once I saw it as a tool, I really stopped caring about it. I sought my needs elsewhere, and I don't mean that in a nasty way.
I practiced hobbies more, sought more contact with my friends and leaned harder on them, even if several of them have to be virtual contact right now. Interacted more with pets and my teen at home. Talked to people at work, even just superficial banter with live humans who like you can be uplifting.
Lifting yourself out of that cloud and being raised up and remembering that you are loved and lovable helps move you past these episodes.
Once it's not an effective tool, you'll see it less. If you can completely ignore it, rather than try to bring about its end, it will spin itself out sooner. There is also the idea that you don't want to "reward" poor behaviors. This is a poor behavior, so if you completely ignore it and give it no supply, you can save your smiles and attentions for better behaviors.
I have a therapist who helps me with these things, as well. A trusted counsellor of some kind is a big help with this stuff.

Mary · November 23, 2020, 10:39:01 PM

Thank you so very much SSL. Some days I handle it with poise and faith. Other times I internalize, question myself and take on guilt.
Mary

SparkStillLit · November 24, 2020, 07:08:38 AM

All of this is practice. Just like faith. Nobody does it perfectly every time. When we fall, we lean on friends and faith and love and get back up and keep on trying.
I think you're a big inspiration in faith. I have a really hard time with that. Every time I read the things you say, I'm moved again.

Mary · November 25, 2020, 01:42:25 AM

I had a big aha moment last night after reading your response. I reread the verse that says " thy maker is thy husband" and I just prayed for God to be that to me in light of this thread. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks...the church IS the bride of Christ. How cool is that?! He will be a perfect husband and his affections toward me are pure and never withheld.

tragedy or hope · November 25, 2020, 10:30:52 AM

Mary and others,
You are so right. Which means my submission is to God and Him alone. When my unpdh fails me, is in disobedience, haughty, proud, domineering etc... I don't feel any compulsion to even be in the same room yet alone respond in a biblical manner.

All else is setting myself up for abuse from a man who is not "thy husband." Husband in this life is supposed to be a picture of God's love relationship to us. If mine is not living it, I have no obligation except to be faithful to God and His word.

Even David hid from his own family (son Absalom) when Absalom was not right with God. David cried out to God and could have killed his own son at one point, but he let "nature" run it's course. He didn't try to reason with a haughty proud man, he kept his own safety first, even though it was his Son and rightfully he could have confronted him.

Really appreciate responses here. To change my paradigm I have to remember what I just said!

David had sense enough not to try to fix the relationship or Absalom. He left it all to God. This is where the Lord is "thy husband" makes the most sense for me.

SparkStillLit · November 26, 2020, 08:29:48 AM

TorH that's perfect. It's not up to us to fix it, or to bring them back around. We certainly aren't expected to be obedient to one who isn't following. That would just be....way off the path.
WE can keep on the path, and the pds....well, we can pray for them. We can demonstrate the way, and keep loving boundaries. Pray that they find light in their lives instead of the darkness they so often seem to live in. At least mine seems to, anyway.

Mary · November 28, 2020, 12:52:40 AM

Updh has really upped the ante. Told me if I did it again (went somewhere he disapproved of) he would file for divorce. His withholding affection is passive aggressive to the wierd. I am torn between backing off of what I want to do to give him space to cool down versus establishing the boundary and facing even more punishments. One of his favorites is threatening to quit his job or sell the house and buy a sailboat for us to live on. I feel God inviting me to give Him this anxious load, and I'm trying to do that.

God, there are several of us on this thread really needing Your strength and wisdom and advice. Thank You in advance for how you will help us. Amen.

tragedy or hope · November 28, 2020, 07:46:12 AM

Ouch! Mary how painful.
I am learning not to create more pain for myself. For me it is one thing to know what I am taking on and quite another to have no clue what might happen. I really don't like living on the edge. I ask myself it is it worth the consequences and also, am I ready to take care of myself when they happen. Sometimes it is a no.

Thinking biblically I must put first the truth of scripture into action. I believe all the psycho-babble is important to know because sin affects everyone, but the difference is God does not always have solutions like man. It is hard to think biblically when we have been conditioned by our environment. I choose God's Word first. In that it may mean I do things a little different than the outside "professional" world.

There is some wisdom in that world, but all wisdom comes from God so why filter it through people who don't even know what He says. Besides the DSM has been established through trial and error in a democratic process. None of it is real hard science. It is all observation. I am not discounting it, but look at the source. Study the lives of the "fathers of psychology"... it will shock you. More on that sometime later.

All that to say, there is no hurry. Maybe drawing a line in the sand is appropriate now or maybe it is not. I see it as a spiritual decision, not a worldly one. We will not change another person, no matter what we do. Do it because you know it is right, or don't do it at all until you can do it without your conscience tugging on you. Only God can break and teach a stubborn, haughty heart, so may be better to get out of God's way. Remember King Nebuchenezzar? Crawled on his hands and knees like an animal for years as a result of his pride and God's remedy to it. God has much better solutions than I do.

AND unrelated... I have a sense of fellowship here on this topic with those of you who have responded and it makes a big difference knowing you want to do the right thing too, in the face of destructive behavior from someone who should be compassionate and loving toward you.

SparkStillLit · November 28, 2020, 11:09:14 AM

Mary, what on earth with sailboats??? Updh has threatened me with those very same things, when I did things he didn't like.
I told him to present me with divorce papers.
I finally realized I could buy him out on the house (so freeing!!!!) and I told him I would, so that hushed him up on that topic. He's already quit a few jobs. That's a dratted hassle, but we're making it (Thank you God).
You may or may not be able to do these things, but prayers and love and light for you while you navigate through this nonsense.
I am always struck by how they say the same things. Weird indeed.

I was and am prepared to move forward if he does proceed with divorce. I can and will buy his butt out of the house. Obviously he's quit. Has been unemployed over a year. If you aren't prepared to "enforce your boundary" then it's not one. It's ok to just leave it be. I think God catches either way, you know? It sure seems that way, anyway.