"Turn the other cheek." < Does this mean continue to be a victim?

[The Inner Light]

I've recently had the Lightbulb Moment about my uNPD dad and sister and I'll actually be starting trauma therapy next week because of it.  I'm hoping to work to gain a better quality of life for the remainder of my years than I've had due to their abuse.

Compounding the issue is that their narcissism is cloaked in extreme religious views (very conservative Catholic).  It's not their ideas, demands, commands, admonishments, etc and it's not their complete lack of boundaries with me and my own household, it's God's ideas; in their mind, they're obligated to hound us about how we're falling short in our spirituality, how I'm failing as a father to our children because I'm the "spiritual leader" of the house, etc.  Their abuse extends and has extended far beyond spiritual matters in my life.  I feel like I barely have an identity of my own both because they tried their best to prevent it and partly because of my "control-me syndrome".

Anyway, growing up in an extremely religious household as I did and having residual/reflex "Catholic guilt" my thoughts this week have been thus:

God simply can't be the kind of God that would create a person and want a person to be a victim to an abuser.  "That's your role in life.  That's what I want you to do as a sacrifice for me:  continue to offer yourself as a victim and I'll continue to allow that person/people to be an abuser."  < I would have a hard time wrapping my mind around that kind of God. 

But then this morning I thought about:  "If someone strikes you on the cheek (abuser) offer than the other as well (victim)."  If they steal one article of your clothing, offer them another.

I'm very confused by this.  My dad is widowed but refused any and all forms of grief counseling.  It's been 3.5 years now and he looks to me as a replacement for my mom in things such as primary friendship and he wants me to spend regular near-daily time with him.  I live close by, my sister does not.  I have a wife and I'm a father to three.  I work full time and I'm the sole breadwinner.  He seems to be no concept of that. 

I wrangle with this because even though Covid has helped us go VLC with him (that's actually been a plus in our lives, sad to say), it doesn't seem "Christian" for me to continue to keep avoiding as much contact as I can.

I'd like opinions on what is meant by the "turn the other cheek" passage and as it may relate to abuser/victim relationships.

[tragedy or hope]

God hates sin.
Abuse is sin against another human being made in His image. You have a responsibility first to your wife and children, to protect, provide etc. for them. Honoring a parent as some say, is living a life they would be proud of you for living. It is not enslavement. You are supposed to LEAVE mother and father and cling to your wife.

Find it in the first book of the Bible if you read it, in Genesis 2:24.

Emotional obligation often imprinted by needy parents when kids are growing up makes it especially hard because there are unspoken rules and the name of the game is guilt.

IMO whether he gets it or not, a down to earth talk with good ole dad about your true "religious" obligation, to your wife and family first will probably put a phisher in your relationship and take great courage, but... what is your alternative, what you are living?

Dad is an adult and he can choose his response to you. You are not responsible for his disappointment etc. You can be kind, to the point and as few words as possible. Most guilt trippers will take words and twist them. Do not give time for lengthy conversation. Short, as kind as possible and get out of there.

Give him time to mull it over, he may be angry or ignore your words. Say them as many times as you need to without further discussion. Eventually it may sink in.

It appears to me that he thinks you are still in his household. I say that because my unpdh still thinks he can tell our adults sons where to work etc. He had to be taken to the woodshed so to speak by one of my sons because he would just pop over to the house when my son was not home expecting to be welcomed by ddil... though we had a small grandson it was still inappropriate.

After the talk, to this day he still tells me he can't understand w.hy he just can't pop in at his sons house unannounced. I don't even reply anymore... he doesn't want to get it. He likes to feel rejected instead of seeing it as simple courtesy. Figure out your "mantra" the few words, and simply repeat as often as needed. It will keep you from rehashing and also confirm your desires clearly

Biblically speaking wife and children 1st. Don't let dad wither away alone, but you must choose your boundaries since he is not able.

You sound like a loving son, husband and father.  The courage you need for this is abundant.

[The Inner Light]

God hates sin.
Abuse is sin against another human being made in His image. You have a responsibility first to your wife and children, to protect, provide etc. for them. Honoring a parent as some say, is living a life they would be proud of you for living. It is not enslavement. You are supposed to LEAVE mother and father and cling to your wife.

Find it in the first book of the Bible if you read it, in Genesis 2:24.

Emotional obligation often imprinted by needy parents when kids are growing up makes it especially hard because there are unspoken rules and the name of the game is guilt.

IMO whether he gets it or not, a down to earth talk with good ole dad about your true "religious" obligation, to your wife and family first will probably put a phisher in your relationship and take great courage, but... what is your alternative, what you are living?

Dad is an adult and he can choose his response to you. You are not responsible for his disappointment etc. You can be kind, to the point and as few words as possible. Most guilt trippers will take words and twist them. Do not give time for lengthy conversation. Short, as kind as possible and get out of there.

Give him time to mull it over, he may be angry or ignore your words. Say them as many times as you need to without further discussion. Eventually it may sink in.

It appears to me that he thinks you are still in his household. I say that because my unpdh still thinks he can tell our adults sons where to work etc. He had to be taken to the woodshed so to speak by one of my sons because he would just pop over to the house when my son was not home expecting to be welcomed by ddil... though we had a small grandson it was still inappropriate.

After the talk, to this day he still tells me he can't understand w.hy he just can't pop in at his sons house unannounced. I don't even reply anymore... he doesn't want to get it. He likes to feel rejected instead of seeing it as simple courtesy. Figure out your "mantra" the few words, and simply repeat as often as needed. It will keep you from rehashing and also confirm your desires clearly

Biblically speaking wife and children 1st. Don't let dad wither away alone, but you must choose your boundaries since he is not able.

You sound like a loving son, husband and father.  The courage you need for this is abundant.

^ Thank you, tragedy or hope. What you've written is very helpful to me.  You are 100% correct that both my dad and my sister believe that we're all still family a family unit that just happens to live under separate roofs.  My dad still absolutely believes he's "the dad" and thinks nothing of telling me what to do in any number of topics.  He's always said that he things the familial model common in many Asian countries where all generations live in the same household is a great model.  I think it was Divine Providence that we found we were unable to build onto our house (zoning, etc) to have him move in with us; a reactionary and rash idea hatched in the weeks after my mom died.  Thank God he wasn't able to move in with us.  It would have been my worst nightmare come true as well as my wife's.

Thank you again.  I appreciate it.

[square]

I found this essay to be useful on the question:

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/christian-terms/what-christians-get-wrong-about-turn-the-other-cheek.html

[Mary]

My take on this situation is first agreement with Tragedy/Hope. You don't need to feel guilty about the low contact. While you are setting the new normal, however, you may need to turn the cheek and bite your tongue a time or two while the dust is settling.

It's important that our suffering is for well-doing. It will be hard either way, so choose the right way. It will take some grit.

Best wishes,
Mary

[The Inner Light]

Thank you all for your helpful responses.  I appreciate all of them very much.

[moglow]

Love the way Tragedy worded that response!  It resonated with me as well on varying levels, helps me refocus and find reason in my own situation.

My mother is much as you describe your father - when my stepfather passed [over 25 years ago now] she expected us to step in and fill that void, no recognition that we were also adults with lives, families, homes, etc. Responsibilities and relationships she had in fact removed herself from many years before, yet we were expected to step into hers. In addition to losing our stepfather, we'd lost Daddy, both grandmothers and an uncle - and she was oblivious. There was no recognition that WE were also grieving, struggling with the losses we'd had that year. We were to "be there" for her at her command and mandate, with no consideration of others whatsoever. Frequent and daily phone calls at home and work, drop in visits where she'd stay for days at the time, the obligation to "entertain" and distract her were limitless. It was understandable for a while - until it wasn't. She deeply resented me/us pulling away and the lack of contact, but never had anything to offer herself. She truly expected some magical "family" to form, something we'd never been. It honestly didn't occur to her that it required effort on her part, we were simply to be and do as she wished because she's The Mother.  Let's just say it's not going well.

Anyhoo, I'll offer a different perspective on the "victim" designation, if I may. Turning the other cheek doesn't make you a victim - it's your choice, the turning. I see victim as something happened *to* you. When you choose to turn away and offer the other cheek, it changes the balance, depersonalizes the situation if you will. Think of it this way, other people's words and behavior only speak of them and who they are, it doesn't change YOU.

Wishing you peace!

[moglow]

Back to your issue with their hounding - you're still an adult. Your relationship with God and Church teachings are yours, not theirs. They may hold whatever beliefs and obligations they have, but honestly it's not their or anyone else's place to batter you with them. Your relationship [ANY relationship!] = your business. You and your family are making your own decisions about how to live your life.

You can choose at any time to simply not discuss it - they can say what they want and you can refuse to respond and engage the discussion. They can be whatever big ole bullies they want, but that doesn't mean you have to roll over for it. There's no rule or scripture that says you can't politely change the subject or remove yourself if it comes to that. Redirect then redirect and redirect until you're done, then "wow look at the time!" or "Timmy needs help with his homework, dad, talk to you soon!" Boundaries, really, whether you phrase it that way or not. We all have them and all need them.

[Sneezy]

There are a lot of opinions on what it means to turn the other cheek and why Jesus said this.  One popular opinion is that Jesus was advocating for non-violent resistance.  So in today's world, he might advocate for a sit-in to call attention to injustice, rather than calling for armed resistance to injustice.  This makes sense to me.  We find Jesus saying "turn the other cheek" in both Matthew and Luke.  Both of these gospels were written after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.  By the time these gospels were written, it was clear that violent resistance to Rome was futile.  And so it makes sense that both Matthew and Luke would concentrate on and tell us about Jesus' call to non-violent, rather than violent, resistance.

And so what does "turn the other cheek" mean to us today?  I think it means that there is a place for non-violent resistance and protest, especially when it can effectively shine a light on gross injustice.  But it most definitely does not mean that we sit back and take abuse from anyone.  I can't find anyplace in the entire bible where God says we must be a doormat.  God is on the side of the oppressed, not the oppressor.  This is clear from the Exodus story through the Jesus story and on into today's world.  Abuse is wrong.  And it's ok to say that and act on it and take yourself out of an abusive situation.  And anyone who says you must remain a victim is wrong.

[Starboard Song]

But then this morning I thought about:  "If someone strikes you on the cheek (abuser) offer than the other as well (victim)."  If they steal one article of your clothing, offer them another.

I wrangle with this because even though Covid has helped us go VLC with him (that's actually been a plus in our lives, sad to say), it doesn't seem "Christian" for me to continue to keep avoiding as much contact as I can.

I'd like opinions on what is meant by the "turn the other cheek" passage and as it may relate to abuser/victim relationships.

I'd suggest always starting with the actual scenario Jesus describes.

Imagine a literal example of his words: role-play it in your head. You are standing calmly and peacefully in some place. It doesn't matter where, so let's say you are outside a restaurant waiting for a table when a person wrongfully slaps you. Imagine it: you've been hit by a stranger so hard it turns you around a bit. Jesus directs that without anger or violence you are to slowly turn your head back towards the assailant and look him calmly in the eye, thus exposing yourself to another potential blow. Really imagine it: this happens on a city street and the next blow sends you to the ground. That far is exactly what Jesus said and must have had in mind. He didn't go any further, but he went every bit that far.

So we know exactly what Jesus expects of us should we find ourselves under a hurtful but non-lethal assault. We are to remain dignified and non-violent. But what else can we say about this instruction?

• Jesus did not specify our response to a dangerous attack, such as by sword
• Jesus did not direct us to invite the assailant in for tea
• Jesus did not direct us to come back tomorrow
• Jesus did not direct us to facilitate the assault
• Jesus did not tell us to carelessly expose ourselves to potential assault or injury

I completely understand your feelings of guilt and I am deeply sympathetic. I was there for a long long time. It was those feelings that brought me to this forum. But really, if we stick to the text this is easy as pie. I just asserted five limits to this turn-the-other-cheek guidance. Maybe I am wrong. Read them and see if I seem to be going to far. Notice, I am not getting into modern concepts like non-violent protests, I am not running this verse up against another from another book and trying to pick a winner, and I am not just asserting what I think a good Jesus must mean.

I am trying my level best to honestly describe exactly what the verse directs us to do. Everything else is stuff the verse does not direct us to do. So yeah, Christian charity and all that: there are tons of reasons to feel guilt in this too cruel world. But the turn-the-other-cheek verse is not one of them. It simply isn't about this situation you face.

Your obligation for compassion must be a universal compassion. Universal compassion properly esteems the value of a healthy you: a you that can thrive in peace for the family, friends, and community members who rely upon you. You deserve peace. But if you desire an unselfish answer I have it. All those other people -- friends, family, community -- they all deserve for you to be thriving so you can be your best for all of them. For all of us.

You must never be mean to anyone. You ought never to insult, demean, or injure anyone. But neither is it your job, right now, to put all people in a good situation: the task is too big. And among those outside of your protection, along with strangers on other continents and people from cultures that you don't understand sufficiently to help, are those who reliably injure you when you interact with them in certain ways. I feel strongly about this and am trying to stay tethered. I do not want to quash your loving sense of kindness. It needs to survive all this, just like you.

Not today, guilt. Not today.