The uninvited guest

[Hilltop]

Pepin I agree about the inclusivity.  When I am sitting in a room full of people that can all speak English but they choose not to which means that I am excluded from the conversation, it's hard not to take that personally.  DH has also said to me in the beginning that he doesn't want to lose his skills which I also agree with.

The thing that probably gets me the most is that I lost out on having the opportunity to have a loving in law family.  There is a ton that we have lost or given up, even holidays.  If I go to the in-laws house even for their holiday I don't even see the point in being there as no one is talking to me.  They see Dh all the time without me so I can't help but feel for this one night can't they just speak English and be inclusive.  Its a massive brick wall that is put up to keep others out, the message is received and effective.  The language is really used as a weapon and its offensive.

[Pepin]

Pepin I agree about the inclusivity.  When I am sitting in a room full of people that can all speak English but they choose not to which means that I am excluded from the conversation, it's hard not to take that personally.  DH has also said to me in the beginning that he doesn't want to lose his skills which I also agree with.

The thing that probably gets me the most is that I lost out on having the opportunity to have a loving in law family.  There is a ton that we have lost or given up, even holidays.  If I go to the in-laws house even for their holiday I don't even see the point in being there as no one is talking to me.  They see Dh all the time without me so I can't help but feel for this one night can't they just speak English and be inclusive.  Its a massive brick wall that is put up to keep others out, the message is received and effective.  The language is really used as a weapon and its offensive.

Yes.  It is a massive brick wall.  DH has visited with PDmil lots of times on his own during the pandemic.  When she came over for Thanksgiving, of course she chose not to speak in English for most of the visit.  Is. It. Really. That. Hard. For. Her?  Gawd, I miss FIL sometimes.  He really knew how to be inclusive.  He didn't play these dumb games because he had no agenda.  I've literally stood on my head being what I think is a "good wife" to DH for the sake of putting PDmil at ease.  As a parent myself, I get it -- it is scary having your adult children go off into the world and form a relationship with someone else.  I've done my best to be both inclusive and let PDmil spend time with DH -- and this was such a mistake.  My doormat behavior.  I just wanted to be accepted and included.  But everything changed after she became a widow...almost a regression.  She lost a husband.....and actually, I kind of did, too. 

[Hilltop]

I don't see a doormat though, you did what any DIL would do for her in-laws and in a healthy family your inclusivity would have been cherished.  There really is nothing wrong with your DH spending time with his mother alone and it's normal to be inclusive with your in-laws, the abnormal behaviour here is your MIL.  Leave that with her, it didn't matter what you did or didn't do, it never would have been right with her.

My FIL is still alive although declining in health and its funny well not ha ha funny but scary funny that you say it got so much worse when she became a widow.  I am dreading it and as I read your posts I see my future, I got a taste of it when FIL was sick so I sort of picked up what was to come.  I really don't know what will be but it sounds really hard.

I suppose I wish you could enjoy your Thanksgiving and make the most of it but deep down it's not the point is it, it's having that block there, that negativity present throughout the day, which just takes away from the day and the constant reminder that you feel you lost a husband as well.  Yeah it's tough and it sucks.

[Alexmom]

I also had a MIL who refused to speak English and would stick to her native tongue when she communicated with DH.  She passed away in 2018, and I had all kinds of problems with her meddling and interfering BUT the decision she made to not speak English when I was present with DH caused the most damage to our relationship.   It excluded me and put me in an outsider position, which was very hurtful and made every gathering with her unpleasant.  I learned after my MIL came clean before she died that she did this with intent and purpose as she believed that DH's loyalty was to her first, and this was one way achieve it - by speaking a language only the two of them understood.  It also was just another example of her petty, pathetic existence in which she was focused and determined on undermining our marriage and 'winning DH's loyalty' rather than living out her last years on this planet in a more positive and fulfilling way.   She died bitter and resentful at never achieving her end game which was us divorced and DH by her side to tend to her needs. 

I think all kinds of games can be played with language.   It can be used to exclude.   It can be used to 'feign ignorance" if the person doesn't like what is being said in English.   It can be used to talk crap about someone in the room.   When you're dealing with PD's in which English is not the primary language I think there is a high chance language will be used as a tool to hurt you.  These are usually troubled relationships in which there is not a genuine and loving desire to connect and bond.

Looking back,  i do regret not putting a stop to any gatherings with my MIL earlier than I did as I found this language game she played ill mannered and disrespectful to me as the matriarch of my family - as it was mostly done in my home at the dining table with my 3 kids witnessing it.  I did ask that DH only speak English when I was present which he did.  She was also asked about 100 times to speak English which she refused.  I had no interest in learning her language especially after dealing with all this BS.  It just left a bad taste in my mouth.  I spent as little time as possible in her presence, and would occupy my time talking to other family members.  I ended up cutting her off entirely several years before she died.

You have my sympathy.  I completely understand what you're going through, and I am sorry you were dealt such a crap hand for a MIL.   I think your approach of being VVLC with your MIL and gray rocking it when you have to see her is a good one. 

 

[Hilltop]

Alexmom that is so interesting, I cannot believe she admitted to you what her intention was.  Why do you think she told you this?  What would she get out of telling you that she did it deliberately and with intent?  Do you think she was trying to hurt you further?

I am VVVVLC with my MIL only seeing her a couple of times a year and like you the language was used as a weapon.  She has also said things in English and then claimed I misunderstood her or she has stood in front of me talking about me in her native tongue while DH is out of the room.  I know she is talking about me because she is looking at me and gesturing at me.  It is revolting behaviour and there is no part of me that regrets not having her in my life.  I would actually like to learn the language however have been turned off because of her.  I do plan on learning starting next year as I have always wanted to learn another language however I don't plan on talking with her in her native tongue.  Even though I always wanted to learn another language I have put it off for 15 years because her behaviour turned me off learning altogether.  That's the thing with these types, they are so draining and have such a negative impact, they really aren't worth it.

[Alexmom]

Hilltop,
About 2 years before she died, my MIL became enraged because she was put in a skilled nursing facility after she fell.  This set off a days/weeks long tirade in which she just let it loose about the people in her lives and everything they did to disappoint her.   She went down the line and when she got to DH it was because he did not put her first as a good son was expected to do; had been disloyal to her; and that we were horrible parents and she hoped we divorced.   I was not there to see it as by then I had cut her off for the very thing she finally confessed to being - an interloper in our marriage who intended on harming it.  I also by then just really disliked her and wanted nothing to do with her.

By my MIL's actions that I experienced and witnessed for over two decades, I knew what she was about, but for this admission to come out of her mouth was a definite  confirmation.  Also, it no longer allowed DH to come up with the ad nauseum phrase I would hear  - "It's not what she meant".  Yup, it was!   She was a horrible MIL!

Edit to add:  I am sorry you too have had to deal with this language game.  Ugh to all of this!  I do like your plan of learning the language but not telling your MIL.  You'll know when she's talking crap about you or scheming against you in her language.  Ha!

[Andeza]

I find it very useful to have a basic understanding of the languages being spoken around me, most especially the insults and swear words. I actually *needed* as much of the language as I could get at my last job because many of the guys I worked with struggled with English and you could see the pure relief light up their faces when I broke out my small collection of work related words to get us through the loading process easier. And it didn't hurt that every time I heard a swear word being spoken in what they thought was complete confidence (usually about me because I was making them do their job right), I could look up, make eye contact, and say "Whoa there, that's not a very nice thing to say" and the blushing and apologizing would begin in earnest. Although, the best is when someone tells a joke in another language to a group, you've not said anything to that point, and then you just laugh along with the other guys much to their surprise. Good times.

I will add, if your DH thinks he's protecting you from the things his mother says by not speaking English, then that just means he thinks it's okay for her to badmouth you so long as you don't find out about it.