Difficulties of Finding & Maintaining Authentic Friendship

TheStruggleIsReal · February 19, 2023, 10:50:37 AM

Finding lasting authentic friendship has proven to be extremely hard for me, especially now when coming Out of the FOG. Most acquaintances just talk about superficial stuff & are glued to their phones. For context, I am an INFJ. It takes me forever to find someone safe that I can share my inner world with. Admittedly, I am extremely picky with who I allow in my life. After many years of attempting to build close friendships, a few years' ago I finally found a friend that I could be authentic with and confide in. We've been friends probably seven years now. Of course my luck in 2020, he ended up moving a couple of hours away. Yet, at times we've actually gotten closer since his move, as we've done some outdoor adventures together and held some really deep conversations about our struggles. He's one of the few people I actually feel safe with. He is a great listener, empathetic, and wise. Truly something I've never found in a friend before.

The problem is that I'm usually the one making plans. He is always just so 'busy'. For over a year now, we have had an extremely difficult time making our schedules align. The past few months, I have backed off because I felt like I was the one putting in the effort to try to get together. Since then, he has actually reached out a couple of times to make vague plans to get together, but it is always me who has to put in the effort to solidify the details.

We recently had firm plans to hang out, but then something came up where he wanted to be there for his FOO. I completely understood, but I also could really use a friend right now because I have gone NC with my FOO for the past six months. My DW and I have experienced a tremendous amount of pain from my FOO & uNPD mother. I wanted to share with him all that has gone on lately and to give him a chance to share about what he has been going through. I was so looking forward to this time together. Yet, I again had to be understanding of his needs to be there for his family. And he makes little effort to reschedule when he cancels.

I even shared my struggles with him via phone four months ago. He is a great listener and I can fully trust him & his wisdom, but there has been no follow-up from him regarding our call to see how I'm doing. For context, when he was going through a very hard time two years ago, I came up to visit him three times that year and called & texted multiple times to see how he was doing.

I realize he makes friends rather easily & has a large family & social circle. It gives me a sense that I'm somewhat replaceable and that I prioritize his friendship more. I realize friendship is a choice and he is not required to invest time if he doesn't want to. In the past, he has said that I'm a 'close friend' & that he 'values our time together'. Back in the fall, he confirmed, 'I'm there for you.' It's just a bit disappointing that I am the one who seemingly puts in more effort. I've tried to give more space & match his level of effort. That has helped some, but sometimes you just need a little more from your friends. In the meantime, I've found few others who are a good match for authentic friendship. Maybe that's why I hang on to this one past the time I should have. I certainly appreciate your feedback on your experience finding authentic friendship when coming Out of the FOG.

bloomie · February 19, 2023, 06:17:31 PM

TheStruggleIsReal - It is indeed a challenge to find authentic, trustworthy friendships. I do believe there are those who are hungry for them, though. I am seeing that more and more as the fears of the past couple of years can no longer outweigh the need for connection that we all have. That gives me hope for all of us.

Your friend sounds like a wonderful person. I am thankful you have had him in your life and yet, understand the sting when distance changes the relationship - as it almost always does, no matter how determined we are to stay in touch.

It seems like he is no longer available for the level of friendship he once was. The places you once went to and things you naturally shared living closer are out of his view and those reminders and usual patterns of your friendship have been lost.

I have found that when I do the majority of the pursuing and planning it starts to feel like rejection if I let it go on too long. It isn't rejection in a case like this, it is a shifting that I am fighting against because I don't want to lose something that has meant so much.

The question becomes, for me anyway, do I want to continue to over perform in this relationship because it is valuable and worth it to me? And if I do choose that, can I be content with the lack of a reasonable amount of reciprocity?

If I am feeling disappointed and sad more often than not with the current state of the relationship I usually choose to step back and keep it very light and occasional.

It is okay to need more than this from a friend. Without coming right out and saying it, this friend seems to be showing you that he cares and is also not able to offer what he once did. This seems more like an issue of availability and distance than anything else. You don't have to completely let him go, but maybe adjust to the new tempo of the friendship and grieve what you need to. Friendship is so often like playing or singing a duet with another person. If we are out of rhythm, in time what once was lovely can become dissonant if we are not careful.

My hope is that you will find a place where good, available people gather who are looking for other good, available people to connect with and begin to build a relationship or two that can meet your needs.

I am really glad you shared. So often, a friendship slipping like this is consuming and painful and yet, hard to share about. At least, it has been for me.

SonofThunder · February 19, 2023, 07:37:37 PM

Hello TheStruggleIsReal,

Im sorry that you are experiencing some difficulty with finding and maintaining friends. I am INTJ, middle-age male, but enjoy reading articles from the website, introvertdear.com. The site articles are generally written by a younger crowd, and the audience's demographic probably aligns well with the authors and founder who is a fairly young female writer.

It can be very helpful to read articles here that align with my traits, and then realizing I wished I knew about the MBTI's a long time ago! Either way, you are not alone in your experiences! If you desire, you can search the website at the search icon, but here's two result-links below from a simple query regarding INFJ & friendship.

I want to suggest, that exploring hobbies that may align with introversion, may be an approach to locating additional introvert friends, by simply being in the same areas as other introverts. Outdoor solo hobbies like canoe/kayaking, fishing, biking and others, may be an idea where you could possibly meet similar introvert types, yet may not be outside your own hobby comfort zone.

Hope you may enjoy the articles and/or website. Cheers to you!

SoT

https://introvertdear.com/news/infj-friendship-confessions/

https://introvertdear.com/news/infjs-intjs-make-great-friends/

Jolie40 · February 20, 2023, 01:03:27 AM

I've only had one or two friends at a time throughout life but me moving /them moving changes things
my next door older neighbor was a good friend but she passed away in 2015
I've not found a new friend since then....it's hard to find someone as you know

however, I have joined three writing groups
although I don't anticipate finding a close friend out of the groups, I feel that I've found "my people"
I really look forward to each meeting & being around other writers

although I'm very introverted, I actually feel comfortable in the writing groups....who knew

maybe you can also find some group to join?

LemonLime · February 20, 2023, 10:58:48 AM

I feel for you.

I am an introvert and crave a lot of 1:1 friendship. I've always had very close friends, and often a "best friend" over the years. I've found 1:1 friendships easy and satisfying.
However, now in my 50's I've realized in retrospect that many friendships evolve and have their ups and downs just like romantic relationships.

The only thing I'll add to the excellent comments already posted: I've found that giving my friends slack and riding the ups and downs is a very good idea. I used to feel quite hurt when my friends found a romantic partner, for instance. And then of course they wanted to spend more time with that person and less with me. Or maybe they got married and moved to the other side of the country, or whatnot. I've had a hard time not feeling so hurt that I felt angry. Maybe that didn't make sense, but that's what I did.

I am now seeing that if someone is truly a good friend, I am best off leaving "the porch light on" and hoping that circumstances allow us to be in closer proximity again in the future. I'm not talking about friends that abuse or neglect us, of course. That's a different story.

I'm currently struggling a bit with sadness around a friendship I've had since age 14. She and I weathered our friendship being across state lines for our adult lives. However in the past few years she seems to have dropped the rope. She has 3 sisters and I think she gets her fill of close intimate relationships with other women. Women who she truly grew up with and shares parents with. I have given her lots of space and I THINK I'd still be open to resuming our friendship if she decided to do that (though I might need an apology of sorts, not sure). But I've had to let go of the idea that we had a truly great friendship that was unbreakable. It's as sad for me as a romantic breakup. The struggle is holding her in my heart in a positive way, not making her into a bad person, and also letting her go on to what she feels is most important to her now. It is very difficult, but I feel myself growing from this experience. Trying to hold it ALL.

Good luck to you and thank you for sharing.

TheStruggleIsReal · February 24, 2023, 07:36:11 AM

Quote from: bloomie on February 19, 2023, 06:17:31 PM
I have found that when I do the majority of the pursuing and planning it starts to feel like rejection if I let it go on too long. It isn't rejection in a case like this, it is a shifting that I am fighting against because I don't want to lose something that has meant so much.

The question becomes, for me anyway, do I want to continue to over perform in this relationship because it is valuable and worth it to me? And if I do choose that, can I be content with the lack of a reasonable amount of reciprocity?

Bloomie, thank you for your clarifying & wise words. I always appreciate your thoughtful responses.

The notion of 'shifting' seems to be a perfect description of what's going on. I have been struggling with many new revelations over the past few months, discovering & working through the pain that I was raised in a dysfunctional NPD FOO. However, my friend hasn't been able to be there for me like I would desire because our friendship is naturally shifting. It does feel rejecting. As I've gained more clarity into my upbringing, I recognize that I have struggled with feelings of abandonment in most friendships.

Since it takes me a really long time to build friendships, I'm not really great at dealing with shifting relationships & grieving the loss of what was. I'm probably struggling with this more because I don't have anyone else there for me except my DW and one friend at work.
In this particular friendship, I am ok with doing more of the planning. I'm not ok with constantly sacrificing more & making a greater effort.

Nonetheless, I know I can't put all of my friendship needs onto one friend. My mind has been in such a fog this past year, and I haven't had the mental energy to work on developing new friendships. However, it's something that I desire & need.

TheStruggleIsReal · February 24, 2023, 07:58:29 AM

Quote from: SonofThunder on February 19, 2023, 07:37:37 PM
Hello TheStruggleIsReal,

Im sorry that you are experiencing some difficulty with finding and maintaining friends. I am INTJ, middle-age male, but enjoy reading articles from the website, introvertdear.com. The site articles are generally written by a younger crowd, and the audience's demographic probably aligns well with the authors and founder who is a fairly young female writer.

It can be very helpful to read articles here that align with my traits, and then realizing I wished I knew about the MBTI's a long time ago! Either way, you are not alone in your experiences! If you desire, you can search the website at the search icon, but here's two result-links below from a simple query regarding INFJ & friendship.

I want to suggest, that exploring hobbies that may align with introversion, may be an approach to locating additional introvert friends, by simply being in the same areas as other introverts. Outdoor solo hobbies like canoe/kayaking, fishing, biking and others, may be an idea where you could possibly meet similar introvert types, yet may not be outside your own hobby comfort zone.

Hope you may enjoy the articles and/or website. Cheers to you!

SoT

Hi SonofThunder,
Thank you for taking time to respond. Like you, I'm a middle-aged male and fellow believer. Studying MBTI over the years has been so clarifying. I used to read Introvert Dear & other INFJ sites to gain more clarity into myself & other. I felt like I was really starting to make progress in understanding others and was making a genuine effort to reach out & make new friends.

Then, the pandemic hit, followed by marital struggles. Now, I'm processing & working through new revelations that I was raised in an NPD family. I haven't done a good job of connecting with new people, acquaintances, or old friends over the past three years.

I appreciate your advice about connecting with people around outdoor hobbies. Come to think of it, I have developed one new friendship this way over the past couple of years. It would definitely be much more relaxed way to connect with other introverts. Thank you again!

TheStruggleIsReal · February 24, 2023, 08:09:41 AM

Quote from: Jolie40 on February 20, 2023, 01:03:27 AM
I've only had one or two friends at a time throughout life but me moving /them moving changes things
my next door older neighbor was a good friend but she passed away in 2015
I've not found a new friend since then....it's hard to find someone as you know

however, I have joined three writing groups
although I don't anticipate finding a close friend out of the groups, I feel that I've found "my people"
I really look forward to each meeting & being around other writers

although I'm very introverted, I actually feel comfortable in the writing groups....who knew

maybe you can also find some group to join?

I can completely relate to your sentiments here about only having a small number of friends throughout life. That's awesome that you've found a writer's group where you are comfortable. I've never been a big group person, but maybe if it's a group of introverts, that would be "my people". I sometimes go my DW to attempt to hang out with a group & give it a shot. Most of them end up being loud groups of extroverts, and I can't take all the noise & chaos. I usually end up leaving early and not returning. I like the idea of a small group of introverts.

SonofThunder · February 24, 2023, 08:22:55 AM

Quote from: TheStruggleIsReal on February 24, 2023, 07:58:29 AM
Quote from: SonofThunder on February 19, 2023, 07:37:37 PM
Hello TheStruggleIsReal,

Im sorry that you are experiencing some difficulty with finding and maintaining friends. I am INTJ, middle-age male, but enjoy reading articles from the website, introvertdear.com. The site articles are generally written by a younger crowd, and the audience's demographic probably aligns well with the authors and founder who is a fairly young female writer.

It can be very helpful to read articles here that align with my traits, and then realizing I wished I knew about the MBTI's a long time ago! Either way, you are not alone in your experiences! If you desire, you can search the website at the search icon, but here's two result-links below from a simple query regarding INFJ & friendship.

I want to suggest, that exploring hobbies that may align with introversion, may be an approach to locating additional introvert friends, by simply being in the same areas as other introverts. Outdoor solo hobbies like canoe/kayaking, fishing, biking and others, may be an idea where you could possibly meet similar introvert types, yet may not be outside your own hobby comfort zone.

Hope you may enjoy the articles and/or website. Cheers to you!

SoT

Hi SonofThunder,
Thank you for taking time to respond. Like you, I'm a middle-aged male and fellow believer. Studying MBTI over the years has been so clarifying. I used to read Introvert Dear & other INFJ sites to gain more clarity into myself & other. I felt like I was really starting to make progress in understanding others and was making a genuine effort to reach out & make new friends.

Then, the pandemic hit, followed by marital struggles. Now, I'm processing & working through new revelations that I was raised in an NPD family. I haven't done a good job of connecting with new people, acquaintances, or old friends over the past three years.

I appreciate your advice about connecting with people around outdoor hobbies. Come to think of it, I have developed one new friendship this way over the past couple of years. It would definitely be much more relaxed way to connect with other introverts. Thank you again!

Hello TheStruggleIsReal,

How nice it is to have other middle-age men here, in which to share. Thank you for letting me know our similarities of age, marriage difficulty, belief, PD FOO, and introversion. We really do align on all of those 😀

Like you, I may also be slowly meeting new friends, through the comfortable, casual outdoor activities that provide me both the introvert space I need, but also alongside other humans (both men and women), who enjoy similar hobbies.

See you along the trail!...or paddling a lake or river; waving from the other shore with my fishing rod, or saying "on your left" as I pedal by on a bike path while you notice a unique bird off in the distance. I may wave at you from my campsite, or even gander over your shoulder at your creativity in a pottery class. I may tumble up onto the shore on a distant beach, after riding the same wave, or gawk at the beautiful sea shell you discovered. See you around in our adventures!

SoT

treesgrowslowly · February 24, 2023, 08:48:51 AM

This topic has been a tough one for me as well.

Without coming out and saying so, I do think that a lot of the people we befriend as adults, they are actually already deeply invested in their own FOO and relatives - and their children if they have children.

It is unlikely that they will come out and say to us "hey new friend, just so you know, I'm very invested in the relationships I already have in my life with my FOO and relatives and coworkers etc....". I think that they assume we will simply "know" this.

Their relational life is rich - they have kept in touch with their own FOO, they don't have PD parents, they have relatives they like seeing, they have friends from high school they still enjoy talking to, and so on and so on.

I had to come to terms with this. Not everyone is in the situation I am in. Most people my age have several on-going close relationships that they've had for years. I am not in their circle of concern. I am on the outer ring. These are not bad people, these are people who have their 'tribe' already. I get it logically, but emotionally it hurts to be on that outer ring.

When you don't have close ties and you want them, of course it's normal to wish that this good person who was a good friend in the past, had more time for you right now. There's nothing wrong with feeling sad that the closeness isn't there right now.

I've met a lot of people who have always had 2-4 or more people they felt close to. They've never gone through what some of us have. They don't really know what it is like to want a close friendship and not have one. Every time they needed someone to talk to, they had that - with a friend or relative. I can only imagine what that kind of life is like.

I feel for you, and for all of us here looking for those closer friendships.

Trees

Jolie40 · February 24, 2023, 02:40:13 PM

Quote from: TheStruggleIsReal on February 24, 2023, 08:09:41 AM
I've never been a big group person, but maybe if it's a group of introverts, that would be "my people".

I wouldn't be surprised if many writers are introverts.....the groups are quiet as the leaders give us time to write & no one talks....then we share, one at a time.....the one group has many published authors....one man at my table last time has a 4th book coming out! with all that writing, people spend quiet time alone

really don't know how to find friends as we age.....it was easy when younger
I have a teen & she seems to make friends where ever she goes.....maybe people are just more open to friendships when younger

TheStruggleIsReal · February 25, 2023, 07:44:02 AM

Quote from: LemonLime on February 20, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
I feel for you.

I am an introvert and crave a lot of 1:1 friendship. I've always had very close friends, and often a "best friend" over the years. I've found 1:1 friendships easy and satisfying.
However, now in my 50's I've realized in retrospect that many friendships evolve and have their ups and downs just like romantic relationships.

The only thing I'll add to the excellent comments already posted: I've found that giving my friends slack and riding the ups and downs is a very good idea. I used to feel quite hurt when my friends found a romantic partner, for instance. And then of course they wanted to spend more time with that person and less with me. Or maybe they got married and moved to the other side of the country, or whatnot. I've had a hard time not feeling so hurt that I felt angry. Maybe that didn't make sense, but that's what I did.

I am now seeing that if someone is truly a good friend, I am best off leaving "the porch light on" and hoping that circumstances allow us to be in closer proximity again in the future. I'm not talking about friends that abuse or neglect us, of course. That's a different story.

I'm currently struggling a bit with sadness around a friendship I've had since age 14. She and I weathered our friendship being across state lines for our adult lives. However in the past few years she seems to have dropped the rope. She has 3 sisters and I think she gets her fill of close intimate relationships with other women. Women who she truly grew up with and shares parents with. I have given her lots of space and I THINK I'd still be open to resuming our friendship if she decided to do that (though I might need an apology of sorts, not sure). But I've had to let go of the idea that we had a truly great friendship that was unbreakable. It's as sad for me as a romantic breakup. The struggle is holding her in my heart in a positive way, not making her into a bad person, and also letting her go on to what she feels is most important to her now. It is very difficult, but I feel myself growing from this experience. Trying to hold it ALL.

Good luck to you and thank you for sharing.

LemonLime,

Thank you for sharing your friendship experiences with us. I'm sorry to hear you are going through a time of distance with a close friend. Many of us who thrive on 1:1 friendships seem to hold them closely in our hearts & deeply care about them in a platonic way. I appreciate your approach of "riding the ups and downs" & "leaving the porch light on" for them.

So often due to my own upbringing in an NPD family, I've felt abandoned by shifting friendships and have turned off the porch light. Likewise, I've felt feelings of jealousy & sadness when I see a close friend spending lots of time with newer friends. You've helped me realize that I can still experience & work through my sadness about the current state of our friendship, but still leave room for it to resume down the road without completely abandoning it.

TheStruggleIsReal · February 26, 2023, 08:22:41 AM

Quote from: SonofThunder on February 19, 2023, 07:37:37 PM

Hello TheStruggleIsReal,

How nice it is to have other middle-age men here, in which to share. Thank you for letting me know our similarities of age, marriage difficulty, belief, PD FOO, and introversion. We really do align on all of those 😀

Like you, I may also be slowly meeting new friends, through the comfortable, casual outdoor activities that provide me both the introvert space I need, but also alongside other humans (both men and women), who enjoy similar hobbies.

See you along the trail!...or paddling a lake or river; waving from the other shore with my fishing rod, or saying "on your left" as I pedal by on a bike path while you notice a unique bird off in the distance. I may wave at you from my campsite, or even gander over your shoulder at your creativity in a pottery class. I may tumble up onto the shore on a distant beach, after riding the same wave, or gawk at the beautiful sea shell you discovered. See you around in our adventures!

SoT

Hey SoT,
It's definitely great to connect with you since we are likeminded in a lot of ways. Ironically, I had many loyal INTJ friends in high school. We always seemed to find each other & have many stimulating conversations. Somehow, I find myself around more extraverts in my adult life. For me, it's been much more difficult to connect with others since high school.

You definitely won't see me in pottery class! However, I look forward to seeing you out on the trails, the lakes & rives, & at the beach! There's nowhere else I'd rather be!

TheStruggleIsReal · February 26, 2023, 08:34:44 AM

Quote from: treesgrowslowly on February 24, 2023, 08:48:51 AM
This topic has been a tough one for me as well.

Without coming out and saying so, I do think that a lot of the people we befriend as adults, they are actually already deeply invested in their own FOO and relatives - and their children if they have children.

It is unlikely that they will come out and say to us "hey new friend, just so you know, I'm very invested in the relationships I already have in my life with my FOO and relatives and coworkers etc....". I think that they assume we will simply "know" this.

Their relational life is rich - they have kept in touch with their own FOO, they don't have PD parents, they have relatives they like seeing, they have friends from high school they still enjoy talking to, and so on and so on.

I had to come to terms with this. Not everyone is in the situation I am in. Most people my age have several on-going close relationships that they've had for years. I am not in their circle of concern. I am on the outer ring. These are not bad people, these are people who have their 'tribe' already. I get it logically, but emotionally it hurts to be on that outer ring.

When you don't have close ties and you want them, of course it's normal to wish that this good person who was a good friend in the past, had more time for you right now. There's nothing wrong with feeling sad that the closeness isn't there right now.

I've met a lot of people who have always had 2-4 or more people they felt close to. They've never gone through what some of us have. They don't really know what it is like to want a close friendship and not have one. Every time they needed someone to talk to, they had that - with a friend or relative. I can only imagine what that kind of life is like.

I feel for you, and for all of us here looking for those closer friendships.

Trees

Trees,

You make a lot of great points here. I've felt so out of place from my FOO, I've never had that close relative I could just pick up the phone & share my struggles with. Therefore, I've always enjoyed those times I've had at least two close friends I could talk to.

Unfortunately, the two friends I invested the most in both moved away in 2020. One I'm still close to from a distance, the other I've pretty much lost contact with.

Since then, I've not really invested in finding new friends because life has gotten busy, & I haven't found anyone I have felt a strong connection with. I'm usually the initiator in friendships, as I don't have that charismatic, outgoing personality that draws people. Plus, in therapy I'm discovering & working through my issues with feeling abandoned by people.