Everything is made more complex when dealing with NPDs. I need feedback on how to move forward.
My sister is battling cancer and she and her husband have become more unhinged. I will spare you all years of decades of the dysfunction (I've shared some if you want to search under my username). Suffice it to say, they've received more support, love and kindness than anyone I know. Several weeks ago my bil threatened my other siblings and my life. We have the threat in a text and voice mail messages saved. The other night bil brings an unknown man to our house and the man threatened my husband and I and assaulted my husband. I called the police and we kicked them off the property. We've also discovered that this is the man who bil and sis have been allowing to take my 13 year old niece out of the home.
The officers advised us of our options and we have things set should we wish to pursue charges. They also stated that in order to press charges on the man we have to pursue charges against bil so they can id the perpetrator.
I feel awful that I have to make this decision when my sister is ill. My parents are blaming me for the incident, of course. They've already started gaslighting and will be giving me the silent treatment soon.
Please help me clear this fog, guys. I thank you in advance.
This is just horrendous. My immediate concern is for your niece. She appears extremely vulnerable, at the moment and going forward. When your sister dies the child will be living with an unhinged, violent man who has equally terrifying friends. The fact that she is left unsupervised with this guy is ringing all the bells.
You and your husband were attacked in your own home. This is criminal action and I am so glad the police have taken this seriously and are ready to act. The police are pretty busy so they prioritise cases that they have good evidence for and a good chance in court.
My personal recommendation is to press charges as this will influence court judgements about your niece's care down the line. It may also stop your bil from making further threats. It may not. Every disordered member of your FOO will shit on you from a great height. All this you know.
I can only begin to imagine how scary and disturbing this is for you, your husband, your siblings and their spouses. It may also be a catalyst for change. We are here for you.
Yes, for documentation record, but I'd not expect meaningful response outcome beyond paperwork on event. That said, urgent call to local child protective agency seems prudent, with report in hand, regarding violent guy "taking niece" anywhere without proper parental supervision.
bunnie - this is about as hard as it gets! What a no win situation you are in and I could not be more broken hearted for you and your DH and this child caught in the midst of it.
Quote from: bunnieI feel awful that I have to make this decision when my sister is ill. My parents are blaming me for the incident, of course. They've already started gaslighting and will be giving me the silent treatment soon.
You did not make this decision your bil and his friend made this decision. Your responsibility is to respond to the decisions they made and acts they perpetrated upon you and your DH.
Your parents... are adults who most likely know that you and your other sibs have been threatened and you and your DH subjected to this attack on your own property. They also most likely know that this violent man is spending time with your 13 year old niece. And they are gaslighting and I am guessing attempting to manipulate you and your DH into dropping it all and not exposing how unsafe that home seems to be. That is a whole next level amount of toxic that you do not need to even respond to. You owe them NOTHING in all of this.
One thing that came to my mind is this question you seem to be wrestling with in how to prioritize what to do next. We have a really helpful article that I am going to link to that is about putting the safety and best interests of children first - and of course your own physical safety. Found here:
https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/put-children-firstA couple of suggestions... talk with someone at child protective services and ask them to help you assess the risk your niece is at given what you know. They can investigate and someone needs to be investigating. Also, talking with Domestic Violence professionals about your own risk and safety with this bil and his friend may also be of good help to you.
Sometimes it helps me to step away and ask myself... what would I do if this was anyone else. Not a family member that I had possibly grown accustomed to acting violently and abusively toward me? Would I ever take a risk of not pressing charges, after they have taken the serious actions of threatening my life and assaulting my H, and seem to be putting a young girl at risk?
The justice system and social services are there for a reason. They are highly trained individuals who can sort through this and investigate and take action. Don't hesitate to get advice on how best to protect yourself and call for help if there is a whiff of an issue.
And please let us know you are safe. We are here and though what to do legally is beyond our ability to advise and know, we can support you as you face the push back you suspect may come from your parents and other family members.
bunnie... meant to pop in these other helpful resources:
Domestic violence hotline online: https://www.thehotline.org
Out of the FOG's many links and emergency resources: https://outofthefog.website/emergency
Boat Babe, thank you for your response. I agree, I'm very worried about my niece and her sister, the two youngest. Thank you for reminding me to prepare for the FOO's response. It is very disturbing and stressful. I hope something changes for the better.
daughter, thank you. I will definitely contact children's services.
Bloomie, thank you for the reminders of what I'm responsible for. It is so easy to forget this. Thank you for the resource links.
I so appreciate the responses. I'm going to review them carefully and proceed. This is such a great forum to receive validation and assistance.
Bloomie, my parents do know this man by his street name. They've seen him several times at my sister's and have also watched my niece get into his car and leave. My bil also used this man to threaten my niece's boyfriend who lives in the house with them. My bil told my parents that he was going to handle/take care of me his way long before he came over. They did not warn me about the threats. I found all of this out the night he came to my house.
Based on this alone, you owe your parents NOTHING.
Boat Babe, that's what my husband and brothers say. I have to toughen up. Thank you so much for saying that!
Update: I'm in touch with CPS now and hopefully soon they will investigate to make sure my nieces are safe.
We decided to press charges. BIL confessed immediately to conscripting the thug to threaten and assault us. BIL immediately gave up the perpetrator; he has been identified and a warrant issued for his arrest.
I'm so grateful and proud of your courage, especially on behalf of your niece.
I will be following for any updates. Also interested in the CPS aspect. Someone I am close to is considering making a CPS report, and I am keeping an eye out on other stories to get a sense for how much they are helpful vs not, especially today (the experiences of people I know are from decades ago).
Thank you, square. I will definitely post updates. I'm told they will visit the girls in school and winter break is beginning soon. So I'm hoping they will be in school soon. The parents have a tendency to keep them out of school when there is drama. Fingers crossed
I applaud your courage.
Bunnie, you are so brave and I am cheering for you.
Interesting that BIL folded, just like that, when the police were involved. Bullies tend to fold when faced with someone more powerful than themselves.
Hold fast.
bunnie - I believe you will look back at how you and your DH chose to take action and see it as an empowering turning point in these relationships. What a strong and clear stand you have taken. Thinking of you in the coming days that you will stay the course and be unshakable should the waves of disapproval and outrage from family members come.
Let us know how you all are doing as you are able.
Quote from: bunnie on December 11, 2021, 01:24:51 PM
Update: I'm in touch with CPS now and hopefully soon they will investigate to make sure my nieces are safe.
We decided to press charges. BIL confessed immediately to conscripting the thug to threaten and assault us. BIL immediately gave up the perpetrator; he has been identified and a warrant issued for his arrest.
I think this was the right decision Bunnie, I am so sorry, this is an awful decision to have to make, but the safety of multiple family members is at stake by the actions of your BIL and sister. This is way way over the line. I hope that BIL will realize how inappropriate his actions were, he is an adult and should be made to take responsibility for his actions. Seriously unbelievable your parents would side with them, but I get this, unfortunately in toxic relationships people distort things in their minds. You did the right thing and they gave you no other choice IMO.
Quote from: bunnie on December 11, 2021, 01:24:51 PM
Update: I'm in touch with CPS now and hopefully soon they will investigate to make sure my nieces are safe.
We decided to press charges. BIL confessed immediately to conscripting the thug to threaten and assault us. BIL immediately gave up the perpetrator; he has been identified and a warrant issued for his arrest.
Hi Bunnie,
I'm new to this thread and am just reading your update. Good for you!
I understand how hard this was to do while your sister is battling cancer. I just had to take legal action against my own narc sister who's been battling cancer for several years now. I really wrestled with the decision, but the bottom line is that she broke the law and I would have felt just as bad if I had given her a pass because of her health problems.
You did the right thing. I do hope everything works out for you. If you're concerned about your BIL coming back it may not be a bad idea to install some security cameras. When I first went NC with my parents there was some stalking and trespassing, so I got cameras, an alarm, and gated off my front door. It gave me a lot of peace of mind (and they did stop the stalking behavior).
Wishing you all the best. Stay safe, and stay strong.
:yeahthat:
Thank you all so much for helping me see through the fog and land. JustKathy, thank you for sharing your experience. I will definitely share updates.
:aaauuugh:
That's horrific. You've handled that really well.
Don't back down - I learned a long time ago that when people become dangerous, you've got to step right out of that and never let it back in your life.
Thanks Sandpiper. I am still somewhat in shock that this happened and sis and bil have escalated to this point. I am beyond hurt though numb that my parents are blaming me. I know I will be okay.
I'm dealing with something similar, and was even about to post about it.
it is so difficult, emotionally, thinking about how it will affect others, whether you'll be believed, what they might retaliate with. That's what I've been having to consider, anyway.
I even had to resort to thinking about the situation from the perspective of military strategy.
They committed a class B felony, another serious felony, and several other crimes against me. However, one has been in the local legal community for decades. Serving them with papers, or having the police come, would provoke... who knows, when they've already done those things. I may have a valid claim for a restraining order of some kind, even.
I've never allowed anyone to get away with committing crimes against me, but I had to back down, or my entire life would've become about them, and I would have had so many new problems on top of what they'd already created.
I'll pursue legal action, just not right now.
Since you asked - in your circumstances, yeah, I would. It isn't the seriousness of the crimes, it's the danger to your child and others.
jjffhh, It is a very difficult situation due to all the factors you mentioned. Thank you for sharing some of your experience. Thank you for the reply and support. I totally understand your decision as well.
Yes.
I put up with a lot of bad behaviour for a lot of years in the hopes that various people would take steps to recover.
When they become dangerous though, that's a game changer.
I've stepped right out of the lives of those who've gotten in with drug-dealers because I just got sick of things being stolen, my safety being threatened, and having to deal with the carnage that erupts in their lives.
It is heart-breaking when people let their lives reach this point, but you have to protect yourself.
I hear you, Sandpiper. This had to be the final straw for us. Hoping and praying we can save my nieces and nephew from some of the effects of this mess.
It is so hard when there are children stuck in those situations. Some of the little people in my life have grown up to be horribly abusive adults who model their own behaviour on what they experienced as 'normal' from their own disordered parent. I do still hope they will figure it out but I do my hoping from a safe distance where they can't lash out at me. I had to learn not to let that break me down and to focus on building good relationships with my family of choice.
Thinking of you.
One of the things that I did when uBPDsis chucked her toys in the last final mushroom cloud to top all mushroom clouds, I rang up the school counselor, asked to speak to them in confidence, told them that I was not 'fishing' for information but I was no longer able to help and I wanted to outline what was happening to someone who could help support my nephew and niece. That was sixteen years ago and passing that baton on to someone who was in their lives and giving them the understanding of why my sister is the way that she is, and what those children had to live with...well, that was probably one of the best things I could ever have done. Those kids will never know that, but it doesn't matter. A friend who had her kids at the same school was able to let me know that the teachers at that school really stepped up and did what they could to support the kids, despite my sister's capricious and narcissistic behaviour. So I think that helped. I'm sure the school thought that I was probably just as crazy as my sister, but they helped.
I actually received a call from my nieces' school last month. My sister renewed me as their contact for the last two years which came as a surprise. The girls are not doing well in school. I'm so glad you shared that you advised the school of what your niece and nephew were dealing with.