Advice on how to handle NDad's text

[Cerulean]

Hi all,

I have been no contact with my Nfather for almost three years (for good reasons).  Out of nowhere, I got a text from him:

"Hi [Cerulean], I would like to have a conversation.  Is that something you'd like to do, too?"

My gut was that it felt a little bit like a trap, given past experiences I've had with him.  After taking a few days to think about how to respond and checking in with friends, I responded:  "To have a conversation about what?"

He responded:  "I love you and I care for you.  I need to understand what is all the contempt you have for the person who gave you life and will give his own for you.  I'm hurting and I can't reconcile with an image of such a cruel world."

When he sent that I felt this complicated, mixed reaction of pure anger (accusing me of the behaviors he exhibits, acting like a victim) as well as acknowledgement and awareness of what was happening, and gratitude that I could see it.  Also sadness, for the situation.  Because I believe he actually sees the world this way and has always been in a lot of pain.

I had a good little cry.  Now I'm debating whether I should respond, if at all, and with what.  I don't want to engage with him, or defend or explain myself, or open up the conversation to an argument.  But I wonder if this may be a good opportunity for me to get some of my power back.  To say, "I love you, I'm sorry you feel that way."  And then block him.

Thoughts? 

[SunnyMeadow]

What a confusing text from him. My instinct is "No, I don't want a conversation with you".

His message could have been a good one. He starts out ok, then of course has to throw in a few big zingers to you and a load of Poor Me. If he could have left it at:

"Hi [Cerulean], I would like to have a conversation.  Is that something you'd like to do, too?" "I love you and I care for you".

But he goes on to muck it all up with the other hurtful things. I believe you're right that they truly do see the world and people as out to get them. My uPDmother has alienated EVERYONE but still says "I've done nothing wrong to all these people" It's bizarre.

You can send whatever you want to get it off your chest and to get your power back but that opens you up to more hurtful words from him.  If you're going to go this route instead of ignoring, I like your idea of sending a message then blocking him. You don't need to read his reply, it won't be a good one.

[GettingOOTF]

I need to understand what is all the contempt you have for the person who gave you life and will give his own for you.  I'm hurting and I can't reconcile with an image of such a cruel world."

These are not the words of someone who is looking to understand, reconcile and change.  Personally I would not respond.

My view is that PDs really believe the world is the way they see it, that they are incapable of seeing things from other people’s perspective. What ever happened to make them turn out the way they did switched off something inside them. I don’t think they mean to be hurtful, it’s simply how they are. Nothing anyone says or does can change them. At some point in their lives they stopped developing emotionally. It was likely due to some trauma and I’m sure they all have compelling and sympathetic reasons, but that doesn’t excuse their behavior or inability to change.

If you think saying those things will help you then you should say them. My experience in these situations is that they don’t want to listen, they just want to bully you back into your old role.

You owe him nothing. This belief that you owe your parents something because they “gave you life” is very common among PD parents.

I read something years ago that parents set the relationship they will have with their adult children while they are still children. The relationship you have now is the result of his parenting choices. It’s up to him, not you, to take accountability for his behaviors and to “fix” himself.

I’d ignore his text and continue the the work you are doing on yourself.

For me any kind of contact would need to come with an acknowledgement of the hurt they caused and some proof that they are taking steps to change - therapy, self work etc. I don’t see that ever happening with my family.

My family are blocked on my phone and all social media, emails etc. It helps me as it means they can’t send messages like this,. I’ve come to see that nothing changes with them and any contact only destabilizes me.

[Hepatica]

Cerulean, I do not see him apologizing there. Let's imagine an alcoholic went to AA and really did change and reach out to make amends. They would say, I'm sorry. I understand all of the things that I did to hurt you - list them - and then promise to never do them again. That's the only kind of apology I'd take from my father and mother at this point.

What did your father do? He hoovered you, then he baited you and added in an awesome pity ploy to play on your empathic nature (which he probably does not even respect.) It's text book disordered. He is playing on your conscience and humanity. If he is NPD, remember that these folks seek vengeance and do not change. In that short little text he even inflicted punishment on you, by saying it is you causing his suffering, when it is the behaviour he has inflicted for years that he is not taking responsibility for.

I like your response. "I love you and I'm sorry you feel that way." It's perfect. Then block him and prepare yourself for flying monkeys. Don't get involved with them. Move on and continue to do what you're doing. You're healing yourself and that is exactly what this world needs.

I'm sorry he threw you. My father did this exact same thing with a letter a month ago. He started off so nicely then quickly moved to blaming me for all things that cause him pain.  They want to continue to behave badly and for us to accept that status quo. Nope. I will not do this anymore.

[blues_cruise]

I'm not surprised that you have been angered and upset at receiving this. His second text message portrays so much self absorption and he seems to be trying to make you feel guilt. It reads as though he believes he's got the moral high ground and is talking down to you. It's disappointing that after three years he doesn't even bother asking how you are or show any signs of understanding that his own actions could have brought you to this point.

I agree that this could be a good opportunity to take your power back. One of the worst things I find about being no contact is when my father goes around claiming that he doesn't know what he's done, and like your own father I think he genuinely does have a very distorted, self defeating victim mentality. I think if my father were to write me a letter asking me to help him understand why I no longer contact him I would respond simply stating that a good place to start would be to try self reflecting on how he treats other people, preferably with the help of a qualified psychologist. Pigs would fly before it ever happened, but this would clear my conscience because I know from my own healing that answers to life's hardships generally lie within ourselves and I could at least say I tried to point him in the right direction.

If you respond then I think you've got the right idea in perhaps simply telling him that you love him and that you're sorry he sees things the way he does. I would keep it fairly grey rock and avoid a phone conversation, since these run the risk of getting too emotional and unproductive. You know your father better than anyone and how he's likely to react to anything you try to tell him. I would sit on it for a while longer and see what your gut tells you. Just remember that as an adult his emotional well-being is his own responsibility and as much as he might claim that the "contempt you have for the person who gave you life" ( wow) is causing his pain, in actual fact it's his own denial and non acceptance of reality which will be exacerbating whatever he's feeling.

[Call Me Cordelia]

"The person who gave you life and would give his own for you." Really, now. You didn't want his life. Just some common decency and care from the guy who brought you into this world. It's not that hard. But that's clearly way out of reach, so you do what you gotta do.  "I can't reconcile with an image of such a cruel world." He's also making it YoUr JoB to make the world seem a good place to him?!? Your actions make the whole world seem cruel? You have that kind of power, huh? Another vote for sanctimonious me, me, me drivel. He drove you to NC and expects you will rescue him once again from the consequences. And if you refuse, well then every bad thing he ever thought about you is confirmed. I like your response. Refuses to accept his responsibility. It's clear that a "conversation" would not have a positive outcome for either of you.

[Hilltop]

"Hi [Cerulean], I would like to have a conversation.  Is that something you'd like to do, too?"

He responded:  "I love you and I care for you.  I need to understand what is all the contempt you have for the person who gave you life and will give his own for you.  I'm hurting and I can't reconcile with an image of such a cruel world."

Hi Cerulean I read the first text and thought that it sounded promising and genuine.
The second text hmmmm not so much.  I see him putting blame on you by saying that you have contempt.  Then I feel he guilts and shames you by writing that he gave you life, so what is he actually saying that you owe him and then he says he would give his life for you but you won't for him.  Again is he trying to shame you?  Is he trying to guilt you, manipulate you?  And then he writes I'm hurting and I can't reconcile such a cruel world - well he seems more concerned with his own emotions than yours.  He is basically saying I am hurting and you should come and fix it and make it better.  No where does he ask how you are, that he wants to understand your hurt, your emotions.

I don't see any self reflection with this second text and because its all about him I personally wouldn't want to get into this conversation with him.  I am not sure how I would handle it.  Perhaps give yourself some time to think it over.

I can only say I understand how hard those conflicting emotions are. As you wrote there are so many emotions that you are left having to deal with and it disrupts your peace of mind and is unsettling.  However good for you that you could actually see through it.

[Cerulean]

Thank you all for the helpful and understanding responses.  They were really helpful.

I almost just ignored him, but it kept gnawing at me, so I ended up sending him the following text back — more for me than for him — and blocking him.  I've slightly modified it, so this page won't show up if he googles the text (not that he would ever do that):  "I love you and I am sorry you feel that way.  This relationship has been beyond painful for me.  But I am not going to respond to something self-absorbed that piles on guilt and blame, and I am not going to carry your pain for you.  That's not appropriate.  I hope you find the peace you need."

I feel better, like I can move on and focus on myself and mental health again.  I'm still very saddened by the situation, but at least I feel a little more stable now.

[poetandpunk]

Hi Cerulean,

Thanks for posting about your dad's text! It was helpful for lots of us to read it.

I have to say that I can completely relate to you and the questions you were having. Your dad's text sounds like one my parents could have sent. I have been NC for seven years and during that time I've received dozens of emails (my parents create new email addresses all the time to try to get in touch).

They almost always include some very similar content.

My dad or mom say: 'can't we just talk? we want peace. We love you and we are hurting. we want things to be better.'

Sounds promising, doesn't it? To an outsider, I'm the crazy bitch for not responding and not being open to a conversation.

However there are some really important, subtle clues about WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON in their emails. And in your dad's text.

First of all, it's interesting that an email like that - or your dad's text, for that matter - come after drastic action, probably after years of setting down boundaries or reacting with shock or sadness or frustration to the PD family member. Most relationally-sane people would not respond to firm boundaries with talking about their own feelings or their own wants or what you might owe them. Most relationally-sane people would respond by saying something, 'Gosh, you've obviously taken some strong actions here, and I've been thinking about what role I might have played. Here's where I think I went wrong . . . and I'm so sorry.'

The most telling element of my parents' NPD is that they cannot apologize because they cannot name what they have done wrong. They refuse even to be the kind of people that believe they are capable of doing something wrong. It's just not in their entire frame of being.

Your dad's text sounds so familiar. Instead of saying something like, 'I love you, I'd like a relationship, and I'm aware of what I've done wrong to make the relationship unsafe for you. Here's what I want to work on.' Instead he's trying to shift the blame and responsibility onto you. He's suggesting that you owe him something because of what he's done for you, that a relationship is a GIVEN and not a privilege, and he references his own feelings 'I need, I am hurting, I feel.' It's all about him. That is SO like my parents it is sad.

Just wanted to reflect back to you what others have already said: he's self absorbed and that's not how healthy parents act. I'm a parent now and I see it EVEN MORE CLEARLY than when I first went NC 7 years ago.

Good luck.

[Hilltop]

Cerulean I am glad you felt better sending something back to your Dad.  If it was gnawing away at you then at least now you have let him know how you feel and you can move on.

The good thing is, is that you let him know you don't accept any of his blame.  At least now it stays with him.

[Liketheducks]

Cerulean.  That was the perfect response!     Had a similar situation with my Dad during the first lockdown....but he was different.   It started similarly, but his follow up was that he was sorry, and just wanted me to know that he loved me and was proud of me.   It was a very different response from his usual.   I'm glad now that we have a VLC superficial, but mutually beneficial relationship....with good boundaries.   Good for you!

[blues_cruise]

Well done Cerulean and good for you, I think you worded your text perfectly and managed to kindly and politely express what you needed to.  From hereon, as it rightly should, the responsiblity lies with your father to address his behaviour and emotional wellbeing, plus how these interact with each other and affect those around him.