A bit of an interesting "psychological exercise" I wanted to think about, and I was curious if you've come to the same conclusion about your PD SO/parent.
People always say you'll marry someone like your parents. Do you all see the similarities like I do in my relationship? I traveled thousands of miles to escape my father, just to end up with someone so incredibly similar.
Same:
-moody
-chaos manufacturer
-unreliable
-cheater
-liar
-likes to put people down
-unable to accept criticism
Different:
-stbx is more outward, father more inward
-stbx rages, father quietly seethes
-stbx never plans ahead, father was more manipulative
It took me a LONG time to realize that my father likely has a PD, because his behaviors are very subdued compared to my uPDH. Even now, being in therapy and talking about my stbx, I still hesitate to talk about my father possibly having a PD, although I see all the signs of it. It helps me to understand exactly HOW I ended up in this situation. My childhood made me believe that a lack of boundaries and this behavior was normal.
I thought maybe we could have an exercise where we list the similar traits of our SO and parent to see where they intersect and diverge. Anyone interested?
As an additional bonus, I'm curious what everyone's MBPT is, because I've read a lot of people with INFJ personality type end up in these abusive relationships. I am INFJ, and it seems like there is a disproportionate number of us dealing with this (I've already met 3 other INFJ's in abusive relationships, and we are very rare!)
In my case, I married two different uNPD men who are the male versions of my uNPD mother. Many of us are groomed by birth by PD parents to accept or downplay PD behaviors from future partners in general. Here's to breaking the cycle and coming Out of the FOG!
Quote from: SeaBreeze on October 25, 2021, 07:57:42 PM
In my case, I married two different uNPD men who are the male versions of my uNPD mother. Many of us are groomed by birth by PD parents to accept or downplay PD behaviors from future partners in general. Here's to breaking the cycle and coming Out of the FOG!
Cheers to that, better to know what you're dealing with than to be in the dark.
To better answer your question, my late mother, and both my ex-H and current H, share/d the following traits:
*Never wrong
*Mood disorder
*Easily triggered into rages (mom was and current H is much more explosive than ex-H)
*Rages followed by silent treatment
*Superiority complex (smirk, literally)
*Chronic liars; theft
*Mocking
*Delusional/Magical Thinking
*Financial abusers
*Emotional abusers
Late mother took more of the waif/victim approach. Ex-H very grandiose/overt narc, and is at least upfront in that he's an "unapologetic a-hole" (his words!) but can play waif to get his way. Current H more passive/covert, and love-bombed the heck out of me when we first met, but his aggressive/overt side comes out when he's triggered. It took me years to realize cocky ex-H and seemingly more humble 2nd H operate at the same base level. Now I can't un-see it!
I'm a woman. I thought I was marrying my father (good provider, loyal, smart), but it seems I married my mother (smart, anxious, depressed, some tendencies toward being a "victim") instead. The only person in my or my ex-husband's family who I think had an NPD was my ex's late father.
Quote from: SeaBreeze on October 25, 2021, 08:18:20 PM
To better answer your question, my late mother, and both my ex-H and current H, share/d the following traits:
*Never wrong
*Easily triggered into rages (mom was and current H is much more explosive than ex-H)
*Rages followed by silent treatment
*Superiority complex (smirk, literally)
*Chronic liars; theft
*Mocking
*Delusional/Magical Thinking
*Financial abusers
*Emotional abusers
Late mother took more of the waif/victim approach. Ex-H very grandiose/overt narc, and is at least upfront in that he's an "unapologetic a-hole" (his words!) but can play waif to get his way. Current H more passive/covert, and love-bombed the heck out of me when we first met, but his aggressive/overt side comes out when he's triggered. It took me years to realize cocky ex-H and seemingly more humble 2nd H operate at the same base level. Now I can't un-see it!
Reading your description of the traits, I feel like I missed quite a few in my original post 🤣 My stbx checks ALL those boxes for sure. My father especially checks the never wrong box.
Covert narcs seem a lot harder to spot, which is why I think it took me so long to realize my dad and stbx are the same type of beast. They are coming from the same place anyway. That must be difficult to deal with for you. How are things with your current H?
Quote from: Poison Ivy on October 25, 2021, 08:24:24 PM
I'm a woman. I think I married my mother and my father. The only person in my or my ex-husband's family who I think had an NPD was my ex's late father.
Admittedly, I probably should have phrased it differently. Of course, your SO could resemble either, and we have lots of LGBT relationships too, so the way I phrased it wasn't meant to offend, just the easiest way to say what I was thinking. I modified the post anyway to be more inclusive.
Do you have any thoughts as to why you ended up with your ex? If you didn't grow up with a lot of PD behavior, I'm just curious how you believe you became involved with this type of person?
You don't have to answer if that makes you uncomfortable, I just find the parallels/ differences in people's experiences interesting.
I wasn't offended; I just wanted to be clear about my gender, in case that might be relevant.
I think I was attracted to my ex because he was interested in me, and I had never dated anyone before I dated him, and I didn't think anyone else would want to marry me. In other words, I was young and stupid and lacking in self-worth. Now I'm old, I have a bit more self-worth, and I'm wiser.
Wow, Poison Ivy, you described exactly how I think both my sisters ended up with their uPDSOs. My one sister in particular married someone who is really unsettlingly like our father. Manipulative, lies as easily as he breathes, rewrites history, sanctimonious posturing, pretends to be religious but just uses it to pad his image, pretends to be egalitarian but is really a chauvinist pig. Both specialize in financial abuse.
I did not marry a uPD, although my in-laws family is chock full of 'em. I married an ACON. I only seriously dated one other person before my husband, and he is also an ACON. Of course I didn't know what an ACON or PD was until I was married for ten years. DH and I are coming Out of the FOG more or less together.
I am evenly split between INFJ and ENFJ. I think the NF (intuitive feeling) types are more likely than others to seek out a forum like this, and verbally process what they've been going through. I'm not sure whether we are more likely to experience abusive relationships, more likely to talk about it in a visible way, or both.
I totally feel like I married my mother (uPdh)!!!
:stars:
Been married twice and both times I married my mother.
I thought I learned my lesson on the second marriage when I married my best friend (that's what I thought he was) but both times, egotistical, liars, no real self there for me, no empathy, I was always the scapegoat.
I honestly don't know how I did it unless there is a mark on scapegoat children that only PD's can see.
I wish I had married someone like my father, but instead I married someone who was almost the opposite of my father.
Quote from: Poison Ivy on October 25, 2021, 08:41:10 PM
I wasn't offended; I just wanted to be clear about my gender, in case that might be relevant.
I think I was attracted to my ex because he was interested in me, and I had never dated anyone before I dated him, and I didn't think anyone else would want to marry me. In other words, I was young and stupid and lacking in self-worth. Now I'm old, I have a bit more self-worth, and I'm wiser.
Interesting. I also have this particular issue (low self worth). I'm glad you're wiser. I like to think all of us here have grown and matured considerably just from being on this board :) and of course dealing with PD's!
Quote from: Call Me Cordelia on October 25, 2021, 09:06:08 PM
Wow, Poison Ivy, you described exactly how I think both my sisters ended up with their uPDSOs. My one sister in particular married someone who is really unsettlingly like our father. Manipulative, lies as easily as he breathes, rewrites history, sanctimonious posturing, pretends to be religious but just uses it to pad his image, pretends to be egalitarian but is really a chauvinist pig. Both specialize in financial abuse.
I did not marry a uPD, although my in-laws family is chock full of 'em. I married an ACON. I only seriously dated one other person before my husband, and he is also an ACON. Of course I didn't know what an ACON or PD was until I was married for ten years. DH and I are coming Out of the FOG more or less together.
I am evenly split between INFJ and ENFJ. I think the NF (intuitive feeling) types are more likely than others to seek out a forum like this, and verbally process what they've been going through. I'm not sure whether we are more likely to experience abusive relationships, more likely to talk about it in a visible way, or both.
That is probably true about INFJ and other similar types. Don't want to bother others and feel more comfortable typing than talking 🤣
Quote from: Aeon on October 25, 2021, 09:51:37 PM
Been married twice and both times I married my mother.
I thought I learned my lesson on the second marriage when I married my best friend (that's what I thought he was) but both times, egotistical, liars, no real self there for me, no empathy, I was always the scapegoat.
I honestly don't know how I did it unless there is a mark on scapegoat children that only PD's can see.
Oh no Aeon! I am so scared of that 🤯 I don't think it's strange at all, somehow they are drawn to people who have narcissistic parents it seems. How are you doing now? Still Witt your second husband?
Quote from: 11JB68 on October 25, 2021, 09:08:25 PM
I totally feel like I married my mother (uPdh)!!!
:stars:
It's such a weird feeling when you realize! Do you think that means we are stunted emotionally somehow too that we feel most comfortable with PD's 😳
I flip back and forth between INTJ and INTP by five percentage points, but always with the assertive trait addon.
I did not marry a man like either of my parents, but rather like myself. We're both extremely logical people and hate the exaggerations of pwPDs. My mom is uBPD, and my dad is a recovering enabler. M was the epitome of the waif/ Hermit type. Medical drama, took joy in other people's drama, magical thinking, black and white thinking, no real grasp on reality and not a logical bone in her body.
Quote from: Aeon on October 25, 2021, 09:51:37 PM
Been married twice and both times I married my mother.
I thought I learned my lesson on the second marriage when I married my best friend (that's what I thought he was) but both times, egotistical, liars, no real self there for me, no empathy, I was always the scapegoat.
I honestly don't know how I did it unless there is a mark on scapegoat children that only PD's can see.
For this reason (self-knowledge) if i ever become single, i will not remarry. I believe having grown up with my uPDf and them married him in female form, that i am 'damaged goods'. I do not believe i would ever trust real spousal love and i dont desire to inflict my damages on another person. I will instead, focus on the love i HAVE experienced, with my own children and from my mother and brother.
Therefore assisting her in her last years and being available for my adult children, brother and his family, my very few close friends (im an INTJ and love it!) and neighbors, while loving myself enough in improving my mental and physical health, will be my true focus.
This trait of marrying into a PD just like a parent, is mentioned as a 'caretaker' attribute in Fjelstad's fantastic book 'Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist' fyi
SoT
INTJ is supposed to be the rarest type, but it's the one I see mentioned most often - not just here.
I wonder if INTJs are the type most likely to know what they are, lol.
I absolutely married my father, for all my YA conviction I wouldn't. I don't think my father had a PD, but Why Does He Do That? actually reminded me more of Dad than stbxh.
Same
Never wrong
King of their castle
Prone to anger
Invalidating
Belittling
Teased until you cried
Different.
Dad directed you to see he was in the right. Stbxh convinces.
Dad raged. Stbxh seethes
Dad insulted. Stbhx mocks
I've tested INTJ before, most recently I got ISFJ.
Yes, I think us SG have a mark. It makes sense. A personality who is never wrong would be drawn to someone who accepts responsibility for everyone and everything.
JALG I just think that the PD parent groomed us to believe they are good/right etc....
In fact my updm, although she ended up hating Updh and telling me he was being abusive to me, did me a HUGE disservice when I was getting married by basically infantilizing me too Updh... Telling him I was not good with money, his responsibility now etc...
My husband is an INTJ.
Quote from: 11JB68 on October 26, 2021, 08:52:33 PM
JALG I just think that the PD parent groomed us to believe they are good/right etc....
In fact my updm, although she ended up hating Updh and telling me he was being abusive to me, did me a HUGE disservice when I was getting married by basically infantilizing me too Updh... Telling him I was not good with money, his responsibility now etc...
I agree! My father did that too JB. He has always treated me like a child incapable of making my own decisions. When I married my uPDH, my father was angry with him because he didn't ask for my hand. 🙄 He then told my uPDH that I now "belonged to him" as if I was some sort of possession which he was giving away. I wondered why my dad didn't ask for some goats and $5000 dowry. He seriously seemed to have that mindset. Very sad that you've experienced it too :(
Quote from: square on October 26, 2021, 09:16:39 AM
INTJ is supposed to be the rarest type, but it's the one I see mentioned most often - not just here.
I wonder if INTJs are the type most likely to know what they are, lol.
I dont want to hijack, but us INTJ's are into the fine details and naturally investigative/organized, so "most likely to know what they are.."? Funny yes, but its a good fit.
My issue, because i was groomed by a uPDf to be an high-performing extrovert (for his attempted trophy collection of his children's accomplishments), and then married him in my uPDw, is that i have not known who i really am (as designed to be) until i got Out of the FOG of PD's. I am now proactively enjoying the real me, and relaxing into my God-given introversion and my detailed nature. Those traits have all been marginalized as abnormal, by both of the PD's in my life. Ha!
Those traits have all been to my benefit in enforcement of the toolbox in my boundaries to protect myself, and careful, detailed planning to now be ready for departure. Took me 10 years (pre-Out of the FOG) to steady unwind myself from my uPDf's financial control-web regarding my self-employed occupation, but i am 100% free and Out of the FOG hindsight tells me why i just knew i had to get free . The last 5+ years (since Out of the FOG) i have been doing the same with my uPDw, and at this time, im financially ready to set sail, but waiting on a few things (that may never occur), but im toolbox protected.
So yes im grateful for my INTJ traits, but surely did marry my father :stars:
SoT
Yes, Justanotherlostgirl. I'm still with him, I didn't have the brains or self-esteem to leave when I should have and age makes it tough, now, sadly.
It's devolved to strange run around of, "Yes, that's right Aeon, I'm getting better and the future looks bright!" and then 3 weeks later turns into, "Don't ever complain about me or my behaviour 'cos you need to treat me better, you need to treat me the exact way that I will not (probably never) treat you, got it?"
I foolishly thought he was getting better but I am now realizing I was silly and trying very hard to adjust my thinking to the reality. My other option is staying with my PD mother.
It could be worse, I think. ;D :aaauuugh: ;D
Son of Thunder: I think you're right about the "not repeating past errors". I think if I found someone again the odds would be good that it would just be more of the dirt thrown at me after the mask came off. As a scapegoat, I did not see myself as a people pleaser but I have certainly tolerated a great deal more than perhaps others would have, 'cos "I'm worthless and the cause of problems." You talking about getting things together inspires me to possible spend the rest of days (after some preparation) in joy and peace, thanks.
Quote from: Aeon on October 27, 2021, 02:29:47 PM
Yes, Justanotherlostgirl. I'm still with him, I didn't have the brains or self-esteem to leave when I should have and age makes it tough, now, sadly.
It's devolved to strange run around of, "Yes, that's right Aeon, I'm getting better and the future looks bright!" and then 3 weeks later turns into, "Don't ever complain about me or my behaviour 'cos you need to treat me better, you need to treat me the exact way that I will not (probably never) treat you, got it?"
I foolishly thought he was getting better but I am now realizing I was silly and trying very hard to adjust my thinking to the reality. My other option is staying with my PD mother.
It could be worse, I think. ;D :aaauuugh: ;D
Son of Thunder: I think you're right about the "not repeating past errors". I think if I found someone again the odds would be good that it would just be more of the dirt thrown at me after the mask came off. As a scapegoat, I did not see myself as a people pleaser but I have certainly tolerated a great deal more than perhaps others would have, 'cos "I'm worthless and the cause of problems." You talking about getting things together inspires me to possible spend the rest of days (after some preparation) in joy and peace, thanks.
Aeon,
Quite welcome for any encouragement to you regarding prep. This wonderful PD education provides a world of predictability with PD's, therefore easier for me to plan accordingly to minimize the potential exit damage. Also, Yes! right there with you on not repeating. Im damaged goods, but solo I will do well; spend time with friends, kids and their families, hobbies, travel and lot of peace and steady healing.
SoT
I have thought about the whole marrying your parents thing.
I don't think I did. I think that I set out to do the opposite. My mom is an adult child if alcoholic parents. She has a few bad coping mechanisms but is not a pd. My father grew up with alcoholics and was one him self. My brothers were both drug users in their teens one left it behind and the other livedwith alcoholism and addiction yet had a great work ethic and was successful at making money even if he managed it poorly.
The brother who remained an addict was a narcissist. My parents were not involved enough in the details of the house and what we kids were up to and trusted the school system and "village"to raise us to a large extent.
I got involved in a evangelical church youth group and though if I picked someone who did not drink or take drugs etc etc all would be well. Growing up with the narc and the mild to moderate dysfunction in the home caused me to miss the red flags.