Control

[escapingman]

The more I read, the more I listen, the more I interact, the more I have realised that it really is only about on thing..... Control. Stbx is not interested in love, doing things together, being a happy family... she is interested in controlling me and the kids. That's the only real thing she cares about. The more I realise this, the easier I am getting to the idea of just cutting her lose.

Yesterday she projected to GC what she was feeling, GC went very angry and confused and said she didn't feel like that at all. Today she did the same to SG. I am staying out of it all at the moment, stbx tries to love bomb me, hate me, DARVO me, and the more she does it and I keep MC the more I realise she actually don't care about how I MC her, she is just desperate to get a reaction. In some way she thinks she can keep controlling me and project on to me that I want to stay in the marriage, but I don't. She gets more and more frustrated of losing the control, but keeps trying and trying. I know I will have to end this, she will not get hurt in the way I thought before, she will get hurt because she is losing control. She doesn't love me, I have realised that. She need someone to look after her, caretake her and someone to control.

Remember this everyone, it's all about control.

[escapingman]

For you that have followed my Journey, I did go with her to the therapy session. I am glad I did. She really is unaware of her behaviour. We spoke allt during the session, and after. The therapist asked us why we wanted it, she said to save the marriage, I said to get her better. After the session stbx commented on this and said she doesn't need to get better because she is fine. I think that was all I needed to hear.

Yesterday SG was so angry for the projektion that stbx did on her. Stbx do it all the time, as soon as someone is not agreeing with her she projects that the person must be in a bad mood for something. The end result always is that the person gets in a bad mood. Took SG out and she was happy again but wanted to vent her frustration.

GC doesn't want hugs from me anymore, she is to old for hugs. Or at least that is what stbx has told her. Again, all this is just adding up and there is no other way forward than out. I am sick of the mind games and being Out of the FOG makes me question how the heck did I not see this before?

I need the final plan, now.

[SonofThunder]

The more I read, the more I listen, the more I interact, the more I have realised that it really is only about on thing..... Control. Stbx is not interested in love, doing things together, being a happy family... she is interested in controlling me and the kids. That's the only real thing she cares about. The more I realise this, the easier I am getting to the idea of just cutting her lose.

Yesterday she projected to GC what she was feeling, GC went very angry and confused and said she didn't feel like that at all. Today she did the same to SG. I am staying out of it all at the moment, stbx tries to love bomb me, hate me, DARVO me, and the more she does it and I keep MC the more I realise she actually don't care about how I MC her, she is just desperate to get a reaction. In some way she thinks she can keep controlling me and project on to me that I want to stay in the marriage, but I don't. She gets more and more frustrated of losing the control, but keeps trying and trying. I know I will have to end this, she will not get hurt in the way I thought before, she will get hurt because she is losing control. She doesn't love me, I have realised that. She need someone to look after her, caretake her and someone to control.

Remember this everyone, it's all about control.

Hi EM, will continue to follow your journey on this thread.  I believe our experiences of the control is the outward expression of a PD's inner turmoil; the exhaust of a self-loathing engine.  But imo, the plan and availability of control is the fuel for this engine.

Therefore i use the toolbox to reduce the availability of myself being fuel, therefore also experiencing less of the exhaust.  Imo, my looking at control only from my experiences, limits my views to a more evil 1-way hurtful intent of the PD.  Looking at the need for control as fuel, and experience of control as the result, helps me to understand my role in the 2-way street and the PD simply needing me in the combustion process for their soothing of the self-loathing. 

Imo, divorce legally reduces even farther, the availability of myself being used as fuel.  Wishing you the best as you proceed forward. 

SoT

[hhaw]

EM:

It seems as though you're gaining some emotional distance and ability to SEE what's going on, really.

I think we're yanked and dragged down old reactive brain pathways....that is to say....we allow it, until we develop the ability to rise above so we gain perspective.

You can validate your DD's experiences and feelings.  You can hear them out and not tell the stbx what they're saying....just.....agree something is skewed with their mother's thought process, agree there are problems you don't understand and can't fix, but intend to limit in the ways you can.

Everyone will be ok after the divorce.  Things will be different, but everyone will be ok.  The adults will handle their stuff.  Even though mom continues to discuss adult problems..... it's inappropriate and the girls aren't responsible or obligated to listen.  When their mom knows better, she'll do better. 

This is how we teach our children in the middle of chaos and interpersonal terrorism, ime.  We calmly call it out, sans emotion.  We talk about what the PD COULD and SHOULD do.  We discuss our own good, better, best options and try to drop judgment. 

We teach our children to drop judgment and get curious too.

We can have empathy for sick broken people while refusing to comply.

We can stay focused on the fact the PD will behave like a victim, writhing and loudly calling attention.....but at the end of the day the evidence will speak for you and your children.

It's interesting how harmful people pose as victims as they harm others. 

Resisting the pull to join in the accusations helps clear the fog AND teaches our kids different ways to handle conflict, ime.

I think it helps the kids see themselves and others more clearly.  I guess it's the first lessons in healthy boundaries....where they, the kids, begin and others end.  Your children can grow through this.  It doesn't have to be about harm only, ime.

I hope therapy for you and the girls begins soon.  I found a good trauma informed T,with Buddhist leanings, more helpful than the others, but it's a personal fit.  There are many good T.  Don't settle for one you don't feel good about.  Sometimes it takes a while to find a good one, ime.

Jeep hanging in there, EM.  This too shall end.

[SonofThunder]

Beautifully written hhaw.  Very insightful from your own experiences.

SoT

[escapingman]

Thanks for your comments, I am touched.  Sorry for not replying much but I am very busy listening to books about gas lighting. I am getting aha moment after aha moment and this is a very effective way of self therapy. I am starting to really be able to back over my entire relationship with stbx AND other relations and I can see. I can see why as well.  My next step is to just get enough strenght to tell my stbx I will file and she either responds to my solicitors letter or we progress without her agreement.

[ploughthrough2021]

I am living through what you are living through although it must be more difficult for you with a GC.  None of my 3 kids fall for her stuff fortunately.  Thanks for posting and stay strong

[escapingman]

Stbx has really managed to get GC over on her side, it is hearth breaking to see. When GC is in the house together with stbx she behaves appealing, she bullies her sister and treats me like dirt. I am not allowed to come near her, she keeps telling me to go away and shouts at me if I try to talk to her. If I say anything to her she immediately makes loud complaints about something she has been told my her mum. If I am out of the house with GC on her own she is a lovely girl and doesn't have anything bad to say to me. I am besides myself and not sure how to handle this in the middle of everything else. I know stbx will ramp this up as this is the only way she thinks she can get to me at the moment. Solicitors advice aside, am I better off out of the house with stbx doing her parental alienation or being in the house and stbx still doing the parental alienation? SG is starting to really struggle being bullied by GC (heavily backed by stbx) and is stressed out all the time. I know I need her out of the house, but I am not sure I can have her short term if I get a rental.

Stbx is behaving all love and that to my face, but behind my back she is turning GC against me. I can hear her but she still denies it (typical gas lighting). Not sure how much longer I can stay sane in this environment.

[escapingman]

This is driving me insane, again she just barge in to my office starts talking and when I am not giving her my full attention she starts a fight. Completely unprepared deep into my work she gets me in to JADE, I feel so shit. Apparently I am the one that is turning the kids against her, when I was out she claims SG came to cry to her telling her she felt so bad because I am not letting SG talk to her. My blood started boiling as I know this is either 1) A blatant lie or 2) A projection she has made onto SG forced her to say this.

I really think I will end up in a mental hospital if I don't get out. She complains I am not talking to her and engaging enough, but when I tell her I want a divorce she ignores me and pretends its all fine, to then wonder again what the problem is and why I am not engaging in conversations. I have my initial appointment with a Therapist in a weeks time, I can't fight this was on my own and I can't wait for this appointment. It's only an initial one but hopefully I will be assigned what I need from there on.

Oh and apparently the kids are moaning to stbx that I am never home, funny that as that is exactly what stbx is moaning about. I cannot stand the projection onto the kids, that is worse than anything else.

[SonofThunder]

EM, im so very sorry you and the kids are continuing to experience these things.  I understand what choices you face and what choices you have made.  Therefore time and you pressing steadily forward on your plans is the goal.  Im glad you use Out of the FOG and this thread to vent.  We are reading.  You are not alone.  I look forward for you, to your visiting your therapist as well.  Wishes for strength!

SoT

[escapingman]

Thanks SoT, all support is very welcome and needed. As far as I can see I have 3 choices short term, all pretty bad to be honest but until I get my head straight.

1) Continue MC and Grey Rock and at the same time have her continuing the alienation behind my back.
2) Go back to normality and interact as before with her, this would probably stop the alienation but would make her picking one of the kids or both as the new black sheep. This is not sustainable as she has to devalue at least one in the family at any given time, and she would get full of supply and in the end have an almighty kick off with me.
3) Exit as soon as possible and fight the war from somewhere else.

I really can't see how I mentally could do number 2, so it will probably be 1 until I can't handle anymore and then move onto to 3. Unless I can manage to do number 2 until she looses it and then have her removed, but not sure this is a game plan I can actually manage.

Sometimes I wish I had just stayed in the FOG, although I know that was hell too. 

[losingmyself]

EM, I want to second what SOT said. We're all rooting for you.
I just wanted to note that I read a different person in you when you were away for a while. I felt like you were getting your bearings a little, being away from that space, and you could think about what you wanted, and how you felt without having all this crazy-making going on around you. I was genuinely happy for you, as everyone else here was, I'm sure. I know the choice I would make, but it's not mine to make, so I'll keep it to myself. Just keep posting, we're here to support you. Stay safe and God bless

[escapingman]

Thanks losingmyself, yes I agree that I kind of lost focus a bit. I think I have yet again been worn down. But I think she just made my mind up. SG made a complain that that the bin was open at it was smelly, stbx immediately went on the defensive that it wasn't her. I said I don't think it was me but no biggie. Stbx then starts shouting about it not being her, told her to calm down it's not a biggie, she then start screaming at me for getting upset about the bin and that I never take any responsibility. Then GC turns up and she start moaning to GC about how immature I am shouting about the bin.

I. NEED. OUT.

[Andeza]

Did you know that exposure to high volumes of noise for long periods of time is a form of torture? Of course you're worn down man! All she does (at least by what you post here) is scream all day long for various petty reasons, and then work the children up into screaming and shouting as well. Good luck to you on this journey.

[escapingman]

Andeza, in some weird way I prefer it when she shows her true colours. At least the cognitive dissonance disappears and I know I am doing the right thing.

Oh yes, the constant raised voices is getting to me.  Mix that in with love bombing and playing the victim. I need to just get it out of my head that I can leave her on good terms, that will never happen.

[escapingman]

The hot and cold, it's crazy making. Yesterday she completely tried to gaslight me, in the past I would have wonder what on earth happened, but now I know. She then ranted round the house shouting and complaining. After this she just behaved like normal and nothing had happened. Now this morning again, all is fine. Had a bit of an issue with SG this morning as she refused to go to school, apparently she isn't feeling well but I think she is just tired. Anyway, I was question her and because I was questioning SG stbx had to laugh in the background. As stbx has some kind of PD she thinks all is black or white, so if I am questioning SG she think I have painted SG black. This is so frustrating, I can question SG without hating her. I can suspect she is trying a fast one to skip school without hating her. As a good parent I have to question it, but at the end of the day of she says she doesn't feel well I have to believe her. But stbx thinks its either she is so poorly she cant move, or else she is going to school. I find this so frustrating and it is some kind of projection that stbx tries to wind me up and lose it with SG when I am only trying to help. I need this kind of tension and drama to stop. I know my stbx used to say that as soon as her dad (uNPD) left our house that the air settled, this is how it is with her now. The air is never still, something can always set her off. The absolute smallest little thing.

Luckily I got the incident about the bin recorded yesterday, I am going to listen to it to make sure I got it right. Who knows, after all she think I am the crazy one 

I am going to have to talk to my solicitor again and ask her to go ahead with the next steps. I can tell stbx until I am blue in the face that I want a divorce without her getting it. She will still blame for not telling her about the divorce whatever I do so might as well just file.

[escapingman]

Had a long chat with SG today, she initated it and wanted to talk. She is so clued up and clever, I love her to bits and just want to protect her. She told me about how she feels and how stbx makes her feel, she also told me something must be wrong with mum. She can see it. She is suffering so I need to protect her. She told me of incidents and even made up ones just to explain examples. She is being subjected to a lot of projection, she is angry and disappointed about it.

Later on me and SG cooked a meal together for her and GC to eat together. Stbx left the house for an hour and the 3 of us had so much fun and laughed like none of us do when stbx is in the house. I haven't seen GC like that for a long time.

All in, today is another day going in the right direction and me knowing I am doing the right thing. I can see how life could and should be.

[Gettintired76]

EM like everyone said we are all rooting for you, you are the bravest person I ever met, I feel you on the GC situation, as I have my own, and it's destroying her being done that way. Unfortunately, and not trying to hyjack the thread, A) I have no money for an Attorney and B) my ex "fled" with the kids and refuses to tell me where they are at. So I am stuck on filing right now. Anyway please keep us informed, take care of yourself and be strong.

[escapingman]

Thanks Getintired76, but I don't feel brave at all. I feel really weak to not have filed yet, still scared of her reaction when she actually realise. I am not sure why though but whatever is happening I feel some kind of obligation to tell her even though I already told her (and her ignoring me). At the moment she is trying to get me to go away for a night with her, plan holidays, go for coffee, plan Christmas etc. All I want is out. Would I be mean by just hand it over to the solicitor to deal with it all and then just take whatever she throws at me? It's not like I can get her to agree anything anyway, so why should I try? I have told her several times I want a divorce, she ask me to reconsider and when I tell her I haven't changed my mind she refuse to accept it and ask me to reconsider, and so it keeps going. I have always struggled with saying no to people, and to not having a no accepted now when I actually is saying no is killing me. I hate letting people down, suppose that's how I ended up here to start with, but I need to accept it and that it was actually her letting me down. I know my next step, I just need to take a deep breath and do it. But why do I feel so bad about it?

[escapingman]

Also Getintired76, I have been reading your story and I really feel for you. I don't know what to say and how to advice you, but I really hope you find the strength and the help you need to get your case on track.