Where to start

[escapingman]

So, I actually don't know where to start. For you who have followed my story me and SG have gone away to see family. I was really looking forward to a bit of a break and for some support. But I should have known better......

I have suspected my dads spouse is a PD or something for a long time. But due to very low contact with her and the pandemic etc I had kind of forgotten and thought to give it all a shot. But I should have known better.......

Turned up at their place,  remote and making us dependent on others for transport etc. But we were OK with that. First thing she says she had a bit of a cold so not to get to close to her. Then she caught a bit but says not to worry as she tested negative.  Sat with us for a meal and then in the same room whilst coughing.  In the morning again sitting coughing all over us for breakfast, me and SG just looking at each other wondering if she is about to cough her lungs up. Still not removing herself from us but insist she is fine. The rest of us then went out for the day, just to come back to see her looking miserable. Then when going to eat she says she tested positive but we probably already got it by know do sat down and expected us all to sit down and eat with her. My dad and sister sat down and said its fine. SG and I just left, went for a walk, packed our bags and then left.

I never met a more selfish person, she knows what we are going through, that I have an massively important meeting with the authorities later this week and that we also need to be able to fly back home.

Needless to say she never apologised and didn't say good bye when we left. I really didn't need this and I certainly don't need me or SG to get Covid now of all times.

[SonofThunder]

Oh my EM, so sorry for that experience for you and SG! 

So are you and SG now off on an adventure on your own for the rest of the time?  Yes, hopefully you will both be just fine and it turns out to just be another reminder for future planning.  Interesting that you suspected your dad's spouse was a PD for a long while.  I did a deep dive into my foo a few years back and it was so very helpful to understand both myself, in relation to that home-dynamic and connecting my later choosing a uPDstbx.  If you have not researched already, i found it valuable and actually interesting as I went back three generations prior to me to trace the path dynamics.  Maybe when the truth war is over, there would be time then if you have not already.   

Did you grow up with this woman in your home or your bio-mom? 

SoT

[square]

That's utterly awful!

But GOOD FOR YOU!! I bet this is a change for you, right? I'm not sure I would have had the guts! I hope so, and your story fortifies me in the future in case I ever have to walk out of my ILs.

I really really hope neither of you caught it. DAMNNNNNNNNN. I'm mad!!*






* In the American sense of angry, not the British sense of crazy

[escapingman]

I never grew up with her, I was in my twenties when my dad left my mum for her. I have heard so many stories about her from my mum and started to think maybe it was my mum just making them up, but I am not so sure. However, during all time I have known her she has acted very selfish and my dad has always put her first. It really has been a clash during the years as uNPDx and her both wanted their own ways leaving me and my dad battling it out for something neither of us wanted to battle.

Thanks for your kind words and I really hope we avoid the disease. 

On a side note, I told SG to not mention this to uNPDx. SG replied to me: "What? ARE YOU MAD! Mum would not stop laughing at us if I did".

[hhaw]

That's a shame, EM.  You really needed a calm vacation with SG and I'm sorry it didn't work out.  it's almost comical, if the consequences weren't so serious. 

Did SG's day with her Aunt work out, I hope?

[escapingman]

SG had a brilliant day out with my sister, such a shame she now can't see any other family members. I have had to cancel seeing my friends too as I don't know if we have it or not. I am so disappointed and frankly angry that someone can be so selfish they don't care about telling visitors beforehand. This goes with everything I remember about her and my dad when seeing them together, she can't do anything wrong and gets away with everything. Their inability to tell us beforehand has not just put us both at risk but also ruined our first holiday for almost 3 years. To say I am fuming is an understatement.

[losingmyself]

Just....wow.
Praying for negative tests for you both! Sorry this didn't work out for you, but glad SG had a good time with her Aunt! Good for you for packing up and leaving. Now you know, at least, and you can plan trips accordingly.
Good luck to you, EM

[escapingman]

Maybe this was one of the purposes for meeting uNPDx. As much as I hated it, she made me learn how to stand up against my FOO. I always used to let their behaviour pass as thought it was easier to just accept it. STBX was to the other extreme and forced me to call them out for everything, even when things were not that bad. But I would never have seen their bad behaviour had not uNPDx nit forced med into battles. Yes it has been hard being in the middle all those years, but now I stood up for me and SG and we got our way and we are still fine. Anyone that took it badly we left, that's up to them I ain't risking Covid to please someone else. Hopefully we left in time.

[escapingman]

Had to check SG's phone and what's going on. UNPDx claims SG is sending her lots of messages missing her etc. Personally I would be surprised if she didn't miss her mum whatever happened. But as expected, uNPDx is basically love bombing SG. She is so false it's scary, love bombing and then when SG replies she us using that for the court. How the heck to I deal with that? I don't want to stop SG or tell her off, but I don't want uNPDx to twist things in ger favour. It stinks she is feeling entitled to a relation with SG and St the same time refuse me to have one with GC.

I AM SO TIRED OF THIS!

[escapingman]

This is hard, right now I am missing uNPDx. Not as my wife or the relationship or anything like that, but I miss her as my companion against my FOO. I want/need to have a good moan about my dad and his spouse, but the only one I have is SG. OK, my mum and sister are also livid with them but they are not really in my team and would stab me in my back in a heartbeat next time he comes along for them.

As you mentioned SoT there is so much to  dig into to find all dynamics and where every person fits in. My dad is heavily co dependent and a people pleaser, but not for me. I would say my mum has traits of PD but I can't figure it out. My sister also, but again I can't figure out what. My dad's spouse definitely has some kind of NPD, I have a feeling things are very different behind closed doors. There are lots of unexplained incidents in the past that is buried in secrecy and an unwritten rule to never speak about.

Right now I just want to be just me and SG as I don't know any agendas from anyone else.  But for my dad and his spouse it will take time to get past this, I am not going to let them get away with this.

[Andeza]

EM you are welcome to join us on the PD parents board. We frequently look into the behavior and help people with what is and is not PD behavior. And we vent a bit sometimes too.

[SonofThunder]

This is hard, right now I am missing uNPDx. Not as my wife or the relationship or anything like that, but I miss her as my companion against my FOO. I want/need to have a good moan about my dad and his spouse, but the only one I have is SG. OK, my mum and sister are also livid with them but they are not really in my team and would stab me in my back in a heartbeat next time he comes along for them.

As you mentioned SoT there is so much to  dig into to find all dynamics and where every person fits in. My dad is heavily co dependent and a people pleaser, but not for me. I would say my mum has traits of PD but I can't figure it out. My sister also, but again I can't figure out what. My dad's spouse definitely has some kind of NPD, I have a feeling things are very different behind closed doors. There are lots of unexplained incidents in the past that is buried in secrecy and an unwritten rule to never speak about.

Right now I just want to be just me and SG as I don't know any agendas from anyone else.  But for my dad and his spouse it will take time to get past this, I am not going to let them get away with this.

Hi EM,

I believe your first paragraph is possibly a form of grief, which is very normal and healthy to have and express as we heal.  Yes, having allies is important, and for me, one of the reasons I treasure this group of empathic, yet anonymous companions here on Out of the FOG. 

Not derailing the thread, but rather commenting regarding your mention of digging into dynamics:  Once i educated myself well on PD in general, and determined whom i believed the PD was in my FOO (my uPDf), I spent only a small amount of time figuring out why he is a uPD.  Knowing PD is an underdevelopment in the formative years, it didn't take me long to understand my fathers early childhood dynamic.  As a purposeful way to not give a great deal of my mental energy and time to a PD, I set out rather to discover how i became such an excellent (negative connotation) 'caretaker'. 

What i discovered, by looking back 3 generations prior on my mothers side and tracing forward (and interviewing oldest living relatives with me flying under the motive-radar as a genealogy/history interview), was that there was also (as you well stated), an unspoken family rule on my maternal side, to never complain and instead smile and find some good, which grows a bad habit of cognitive dissonance with a smile. 

My mother was absolutely buried in the hidden harsh demands of my uPDfather, and when I was a child, she came across to me as too-busy to spend time, steady focused on her never ending projects, mostly teamed with my father 🤔.  I always attributed that to her being devoted to herself, but in this study, i realized she was almost always drowning in the 'caretaking' serving of her manipulative (covert and harsh in circle 1) husband (my father) and she could barely keep her own face above the water's edge and breathe, let alone spend much time with her children.  When I discovered this just a few years ago, knowing she would never complain and defend my father with her excuses as to him being a 'good-man', it was an eye opener and my compassion and understanding grew for her tremendously. 

I say this simply so that you consider your parents (and entire FOO) deeply when time permits.  Imo, two PD people living together is like putting the same pole of two magnets together or short circuiting 2 wires and they don't last long as a couple well at all. Therefore, I believe a PD needs more of a 'caretaker' type, whose good traits are exploited to unhealthy and unbalanced levels.  The PD steadily and craftily shapes them into an servant + flying monkey who also has some fleas that at least in my experiences, made my mother seem to operate as a teammate  with my uPDw , when in fact it was helplessness that lived behind her smile or father-defending attitude.  These caretaker loved ones may practice cognitive dissonance and push back against us if we turn on the PD, like we are the problem.  Same can happen with siblings who are also brainwashed into the PD's cult-like facade.  Again this is my experience and my beliefs. 

Your experience with the ridiculousness this week is beyond the pale and so glad you got away!  Again, i believe the companion grief should be allowed to come and go; welcome to pass right through and I recognize it for what it is in my own life.  You are not alone my soldier comrade and I recommend self-protective boundaries for yourself regarding  "...not going to get away with this ", as we only control ourselves.  Its surely a lesson learned so you don't travel that same route again.  I hope you and SG can find some joy to counteract the selfishness and ridiculousness of that experience. 

SoT

[escapingman]

I might look into the parental forum as the more I am getting Out of the FOG with uNPDx I can see how dysfunctional everything is with my FOO. I realised they all talk to each other about me and try to make plans without even talking to me. They all share everything I say in confidence and noone respect my boundaries. My dad blew all plans through the window,  now they all expects me to change my plans to accommodate what was missed due to his negligence and carelessness. I got a message from him just asking what we are up to, and a missed call. Then a missed call from my mum. I actually have no desire to see her at all, she has not called me once since I announced the divorce. She is feeling more sorry for herself we are not staying at hers than asking me any questions about my divorce.

At the same time I am worried they will create a scene,  that SG accidentally report back to uNPDx who in turn will use that in the heating.

I am so angry and worn out.

[square]

This is terrible.

Would it bebetter to pull the plug and return home early and just enjoy sports in the garden, walks to the park, etc.?

Since you feel the stakes may be higher than just a crummy holiday.

[escapingman]

Square, the main reason to go was that I need to renew my passport which expires in a week. I then extended the trip to see some friends and for SG to see family. I need to talk to the authorities about the best way, either wait to get the new one before travel or travel back on the old and have it sent to the embassy. But my gut is to leave the area as soon as I applied and go on a weeks holiday with SG futher away in my country and then just go back to collect the passport and go home.

Whilst writing this my mum called twice. But fir the 2 months before when she knew what I was going through she called zero times.

[square]

Your idea of staying in country but going to another area to wait might make a lot of sense.

What a mess, though.

[justducky]

Your idea of staying in country but going to another area to wait might make a lot of sense.

What a mess, though.

You're in a whirlwind of deFOGging. It must be exhausting.

Much love and support to you and SG. 

[hhaw]

I was wondering where your mum's been, EM.

I'm so sorry your FOO is so......
all roads lead to Rome, don't they?

It's best to put the FOO stuff on the shelf till the divorce is done.

Just limit exposure and turn toward uplifting, helful, considerate and competent people.

[escapingman]

Hhaw, yes I really need to put FOO to one side. But they are seriously winding me up now and again shows they have no boundaries. I need to put my focus on the hearing, not squabbles about who to see when. I already struggled at my dad's before the Covid revelation as all of them just want to talk about the weather. I have said I have hearing next month and noone has offered to cone and support me and look after SG. My sister, despite being able to work from home (my house as well) said she can't come because she has booked to play sport with that evening, but she happily comes to see us over the weekend when I don't need help. I am so tired of being some kind of entertainer when they want entertained, but no one would help. I am still upset with my dad for going home after 3 days when he came just in the beginning. Especially since I found out the reason was so he and his spouse could go to a car meet (that they have every week).

Suppose one good thing of all this is that I haven't given uNPDx to many thoughts.

[guitarman]

I hope you are both keeping well and haven't got Covid.

It seems callous and uncaring that you were potentially both exposed to it.

I hope you can have some enjoyable time with SG.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.