Are there no pd DIL posts?

[Love]

I automatically feel defensive reading this, not because you are by anyway wrong TeaLady, there are narcs everwhere, and man once you are out of that fog I feel like I'm seeing them everywhere.  Perhaps I'm just hypersensitive when it comes to this situation. 

My PDMIL was and is a PD DIL.   I know this from personal experience and the horrible stories Dh's grandmother recounts but tries at the same time to convince us to come back into the narc fold.  I know Dh's grandmother has been enlisted as an FM but she has been incredible mistreated, abused for the worst, pedi lies, fabrications, and small things.  For example, one time my PDMIL berated and then throughout DH's grandmother (MIL's MIL) for bringing to many desserts.  Dh's grandmother wasn't allowed to come over to the house until a certain time because my MIL needed "her time" - I'm not sure for what other than dehumanizing us and our kids - Dh's family would not even acknowledge our presence or our children's presence for hours - hard to do in a less than 1000 square foot house.

I wanted you to know that you sound kind and you should be allowed to say you can't help without the abuse.  Trust me my PDMIL proudly told stories about how she hurt, isolated, abused her MIL, Dh's grandmother - she was always proud of it, Dh's sisters, my NSIL's would treat the grandmother the same way.  When I have spoken of the things they've done literally people do not believe me.  Now this FM grandmother (who we still care for and does try with us - she's basically an abused battered woman stuck defending her abusers out of fear of what they will do when she doesn't).  Our therapist, my Dh, everyone who knows our story wishes her well and wishes she could break free.  Yes it would be they would never see her again, she tried to speak up and the result was threats to drop her at the mental institution, and those threats were real.

Take heart, be with the family that treats you with kindness and mutual respect.  Life is so short, trust me there is nothing you can say or do to change what this DIL is going to do and act.  You will waste a lot of time worrying but it will amount to nothing.  Can you remove yourself?  Don't get me wrong I know it is more than just painful but my Dh said something last night that brought me peace - especially coming from his mouth - "you are damned if you do and damned if you don't" - don't waste a good life allowing the abuse to continue in your life - you can do nothing to stop it from your son or grandchildren.  I may be so blunt but I think the worst thing I did in the situation with my PDMIL was just the same as PDNMIl is enabled it, turn a blind eye and let her keep abusing.  I am not that type of person and now I am finally able to live with myself.  Enabling, turning a blind eye, removing yourself is more loving than the people who stick around and accept the behavior "just to get along".  Wrong is wrong, abuse is abuse.  Yes you lose a lot, but you lose more if you stay - this is my humble opinion, and experience. 

Had people stood up by walking away and therefore stopping the abuse and the vile language and fights perhaps my MIL would not be as horrid today - perhaps some people would not have endured so much abuse.  I see NC or VVVLLLC and all forms of boundaries that do not allow abuse in our lives as not just saving ourselves but perhaps saving others - because there is one thing Dh and I did by going NC - my PDN inlaw family is not as bold, have isolated themselves, live a miserable existence - but the point is they are now just abusing each other - they are a bit scared to branch out because they lost their best scapegoats - their abuse is timider because DH and I did not let it pass.

I also think confrontation is will not help - that doesn't mean I didn't - I did - but it was more for me than them.  We have stopped responding to everything, no text, no voicemail, we don't even block - if there is an emergency they won't call to punish Dh for his behavior.  The point is you won't win, stop playing her game.  My narc mil has done this for decades - her Mil, Dh's grandmother just said recently, "I know she is the coldest cruelest most hate-filled person and your sisters are her clones BUT they are blood can't you just pretend as I do so they can see the grandchildren" -  DH's Answer - no

No joke exactly what she did say and has said a million times - but no we can't and that is certainly not a good appeal for being involved and letting children around this thing.

[all4peace]

I believe my uNBPDmil and uNBPDm were good (compliant) daughters in law. I truly believe that. My uNBPDmil married into a family in a cloud of shame and I believe genuinely made the best of a challenging situation. I believe she fit into the family as best she could.

uNBPDm tolerated my paternal gma's toxic behavior and attitudes with a surprising amt of grace. The only selfless act I can remember uNBPDm doing for enF was to be the buffer between him and his mother. The fallout would last for days for my M, as she detoxified from each visit. (uNBPDm also mocked and scorned enF's family repeatedly, consistently, to us the grandchildren, but not to their faces)

I know that both Ms had the very best of intentions of being good MILs to their DILs. They truly did. I remember it from the speech MIL gave at our wedding, and I saw the immense efforts my own M made towards her DILs (not necessarily her sons or daughters, but I digress).

I think part of the issue is that both MILs expected their DILs to behave as they had, to accept what they had accepted, to have the lives they had had. And it just didn't work that way. There was absolutely no way I was going to mesh with DH's family system. I tried crazy hard to fit in, but I wasn't turning my values over to them to be molded and changed. And in my own FOO, no matter how good of a DIL my own M had been, she simply couldn't stop manipulating, controlling and lying in her own family. While she made genuine efforts towards her DILs, she also had weak/no attachments to her sons and couldn't stop the bad behavior. The DILs cared more about the ugly behavior than the nice efforts.

I feel grief for the state of MIL-DIL relations in our families, especially knowing that both matriarchs had their own share of suffering before becoming MILs. Still, I cannot see my way to allowing any and all behavior FROM them when trying to raise our own families. I wish it could have been different. I wish they had a different story for their own relationships. But I also can't take any more toxic behavior just so that I give them the same story as they had.


Tea-lady, I think it is entirely reasonable for you to state your boundaries, what you can and cannot do. If someone doesn't take that well, then that is on them. It's still quite painful, and we all want our stories to end better than the ones before us, but we also can't stay in toxic situations and thrive. I'm so sorry for how your story is going right now and wish you peace.

[Hilltop]

Tea lady, I'm sorry you are going through this.  It's completely normal to have boundaries.  You have responsibilities that you can't neglect and it's very reasonable to say that you are time poor at the moment.

It really is on them to set up child care that works for them.  That is their responsibility not yours.  The smear campaigns, using children as pawns all tactics that a PD will use. 

Although it is upsetting do what works for you at this time.  I really think you are damned if you do damned if you don't I would let your son know you are there and will try to help when you can. Perhaps go through him to communicate.  Give yourself a break.  Just because you can't help with childcare doesn't mean they should keep the grandkids from you.  Like you said, your DIL disappears when you visit so she can hardly then complain when she doesn't see you. This is all done to get a reaction from you.

Don't react to anything.  Just calmly reach out to your son and tell him when you are free you'd love to catch up.  Don't respond to the DIL or her insults, or complaints or smear campaigns.  If your son mentions it just say you tried to explain that you are time poor but at the moment you aren't seeing eye to eye and that's ok.  You won't make or help your DIL see things from your perspective, she will find fault no matter what you do.  Drop the rope with her.

[Spring Butterfly]

You said

She also says that if we want to see them its  has to be at their place.

so why not take up the offer and go when it's convenient for her? Call her bluff / work within her parameters?

You said when you did visit 'she’d sit in another room or not come out of her room, go shopping' and I'm not sure why that's a problem. Isn't it better she excuse herself if she's losing self control? My experience with PD is that something I side builds like a pressure cooker until it releases (explodes) and they feel some sort of relief. If she's feeling this it's best she excuse herself. Even better to keep visits very brief, a sit in the living room, some smiles with the grandkids and then leave after a set time.

It might also help for you and your DH to come up with a signal or verbal cue that you're feeling uncomfortable / nervous / fearful and need to leave.

I have a PD brother in law who sometimes goes on a full on frontal attack. Regardless of the nature of connection to the PD in our life the principles in the Toolbox remain the same and work whether it's MIL / DIL etc.   Have you found anything there that might help you navigate this situation?