Therapist encouraging me to not grey rock and to put in effort with PDinlaws

[Consumed]

In-laws have created countless issues in my marriage and tried to drive a wedge between DH and I, and unfortunately have been successful on some occasions. DH and I have agreed he will continue his relationship with them and I keep my distance and see them a handful of times a year.

I have been grey rocking when I see them, but I am always polite and civil at minimum. DH is saying everyone knows I don't like them, that there is an atmosphere and that his family aren't going to be inclined to put in effort with me if I'm being guarded and cold. This makes me sad because I have valid reasons for being guarded but I guess he's in the fog.

Therapist is saying if I'm going to see them a handful of times a year, I might as well be as nice as I can be and create conversations and put in effort with the in-laws than feeling anxious and on edge and expecting the worst from them. I really and truly do not like my in laws, nor want a relationship with them, and I only tolerate them on these occasions for DH's sake. Should I stick to grey rock or does he have a point? I can't fathom why on earth I would want to put in effort and initiate conversations with people who have been speaking bad about me and trying to turn my DH against me? The therapist now has me doubting myself, and has my DH adamant that I've been handling the situations wrong. The therapist overall seems knowledgable and helpful, but he doesn't appear to support leave and cleave and is very much about looking at others intentions and that they are why they are because of their beliefs, and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Of course if you are distant they will be disinclined to try! That's the entire point of grey rock!  Oh my gosh!

If you are polite and civil, that's more than generous of you under the circumstances. If the ILs are smearing you, "everyone" can easily deduce why you don't like them if they choose to use their brains. Your being distant is NOT the problem. Don't take responsibility for what isn't yours!

Sounds like you and DH need to clarify what your goal here is. What value do you put on self-protection vs. DH's need for his FOO? Where does your marriage rank in this? (Hint: Higher than the in-laws!) Does DH acknowledge how they have hurt the two of you in the past?

And finally... How can a T not support leave and cleave??? And judging people's intentions is impossible imho. Actions are observable. Sure, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. But they lead to actions. And actions do not always deserve toleration. You can be empathetic to intentions and still have rock-solid boundaries.

I'm pretty angry for you reading this. I don't want to tear down a professional, but what the heck dude??? Make nice? Like maybe you'll discover you and your MIL share a love of Agatha Christie novels, and discussing that would just make everything more pleasant for everyone.  No, you'd be helping them sweep everything under the rug and keeping everyone nicely Fogged. 

[Poison Ivy]

I agree entirely with Call Me Cordelia.  Thank you for saying it so well, CMC.

[StayWithMe]

Maybe you should consider finding a new therapist.  We should develop a few questions to ask a therapist o that we can try before we buy.

I'm tired too of the intentions thing.  People who want the freedom to be rude will always tell you that their intentions are good.  And this is the excuse the people use "Maybe he didn't mean it that way."  But maybe he did.

My experience with a therapisit is that once you start disagreeing in things, they have a tendency to believe that they are superior to you because they can forgive / they don't have the vitriol that you do and so on.

I bet this guy will never advise you to do anything that will be to your advantage. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Came back to add I've been in a similar scenario. Bloomfield has helpful advice for me, per usual. 

https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=77971.msg678739#msg678739

[coyote]

I'm inclined to say that a Therapist should support you in decisions you have made for your life. IMO a good therapist does not "give advice" or tell a client what to do. A good therapist helps a client explore what works best for them. The T does not know the IL's or what they have tried to do to sabotage you and DH's relationship. Anyway you can Grey Rock and be nice about it.

[all4peace]

I think it's possible to make nice conversation and grey rock. At least I hope so, as that has been my own goal with my ILs for a while now. Since I do not believe my ILs are safe for my heart, I don't let them into my heart. I can still make conversation about their lives, which is what I have always done. I now simply don't bring up anything from my life beyond super obvious and basic things (grey rock).

I used to have tremendous anxiety when facing my ILs, but now that my heart knows I will guard it, and the hurt and tender parts of me know they are safe, I can be in their presence for short amounts of time a few times per year with far less damage than I used to have. Just a few thoughts on how it could be possible.

[StayWithMe]

I think it's possible to make nice conversation and grey rock.

I agree.  Just be careful as to how they might use what you say to them and adjust accordingly.  there are A LOT of things I do not talk about with my mother.

[Consumed]

Thanks for all the replies. I am more than happy to be civil and polite and always have been, but I do feel expecting me to walk in with a huge smile on my face, asking everyone how their day has been etc. when they have been very unkind to me (to say the least) just does not sit well with me. It feels insincere, inauthentic and just down right uncomfortable. I don't even want to be in their presence, I do this solely for my DH.

Whilst my DH has acknowledged his family's wrong doings etc. he has definitely jumped on this and said 'well the therapist thinks you could be making more effort and so you should'. Not sure if this should be for another thread but I am at a loss as to how to manage this whole situation with the in laws now and it is taking a huge toll on my marriage. No matter what I say or do, they have a problem with me (DH's parents and siblings). It is evident that they feel I should conform and obey to whatever they say and I will not which makes me a problem to them.

My current strategy is to not have DH talk about them to me as it is always negative stuff and plays on my mind, and to focus on having a life well lived. For some reason it just doesn't seem to work, there are still issues which often arise from DH spending time with them, and then coming to me and asking me things in relation to his family which results in us arguing. He spends a vast amount of time with them which I don't feel is healthy when these people dislike your wife so much. I asked the therapist as to whether there is a point where you would say that amount of time is not healthy, but he said that was for us to decide.

[coyote]

"My current strategy is to not have DH talk about them to me as it is always negative stuff and plays on my mind, and to focus on having a life well lived." This seems a good strategy to me. I bet most of the arguments ensue from too much JADE on your part and then it devolves to Circular Conversations with your H.  So if your H wants to spend time with FOO that is his choice. You don't have to and there is not need for a lot of discussion as to why not. Let's face it, you will never be able to please them. It is what it is.

[Consumed]

I totally agree Coyote. I know in his head he believes that one day they may magically change and we can be one big happy family. My feeling is that will happen when pigs fly. So in the meantime yes, I will never be able to please them so I may as well keep my distance, and go about my life doing what makes me happy and not allow them to poison my marriage, which can be hard when they're planting seeds in DH's head.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Let's face it, you will never be able to please them. It is what it is.

That's what I see behind the desire for you to be "nice" to them. Does DH have the same expectations for his parents to go out of their way to be kind to you? Or is this a one-way street?

[Consumed]

Call Me Cordelia it is most definitely a one way street. He has said they are who they are and they're never going to change which I agree with, but this means he has no expectations for them to be kind to me. However if I was to treat them the way they did me, he would be livid. Double standards for sure.

[NotFooled]

Not all therapist are good therapist.  I was in grief counseling many years ago for the death of my spouse and my therapist started crying in the middle of the session, apparently she was going through some issues with her  spouse.  It made me feel terrible and I stopped going.

To me it sounded like you and your spouse had the issue managed and now your therapist is judging the way your handling the inlaws.  I don't think that is a sign of a good therapist. 

[11JB68]

I wonder too about whether you could/should set a boundary with your dh that what you discuss with your therapist is private. I'm not saying this is correct, just a thought.

[BettyGray]

Gaslit by a therapist... that is the worst. Therapists should not make you feel like you’re the problem. Especially when they haven’t spent any time with the PDs. Sounds like you have been made into the classic scapegoat. Anyone telling you to ignore how you feel and taking IL’s side because you “should” (and should get over it because- remember- you are the problem) has their own issues

I totally get the pickle you are in. While I am lucky to have a great FIL, MIL is a real challenge. (They are divorced - 36 years). Civility is fine to a point- but it is also earned. Why continue to put yourself out there if they only get away with being turds to you? I support my husband of 20 years, but I draw the line if she behaves badly in front of me. I speak up and do my best to make her own bad her behavior. If she insults DH (she always has a little comment to undermine or criticize him), then she had better watch out. His lifetime of being torn down by her has wreaked enough havoc on our lives. No more.

DH has not always defended me - sometimes taking her side out of FOG. But I think we are finally in agreement that enough damage has been done that it can’t continue just because he is comfortable playing a role she decided he should play. He is taking baby steps for now. Not answering every phone call (amazing how he convinced himself he was obligated to - mostly because he wanted to “get it out of the way.”) is a start.

Gaslighting by a spouse is so horribly painful and just plain rude. It hurts even more if we have been gaslit by our own family for years on end and have that to grapple with.

The other thing- at least with my MIL - is that conversation is next to impossible with someone who talks AT you and shows no interest in your life. Also impossible to have a relationship. It truly is a one-way Street. So I show up, and participate, but definitely am never alone with her. In waiting for her to say something hurtful or stupid, it gives me the upper hand. I am prepared to point out her cruelty in front of others. In a calm, tactful way. Almost like disciplining a child.

[biggerfish]

Hi Consumed, thanks for sharing this.

It made me think of a filter I've learned to use for making decisons. That filter is "self-respect." If I can apply it here, I'd say--do the thing that will best preserve your self-respect. If you do that, then whatever decision you make will be a good one.  And I'm thinking your DH would not want you to sacrifice your self-respect.

This isn't easy. We're cheering you on. 

[qcdlvl]

Kris Godinez has mentioned dealing with PDs is not, at least not in the US, part of a therapist's standard training. So a fully licensed therapist may have no experience or training in dealing with PDs. Perhaps that's what's happening here? A therapist with little or no experience or training in dealing with PDs dishing out advice that makes sense if everyone inolved were non-PD?

[biggerfish]

...dealing with PDs is not, at least not in the US, part of a therapist's standard training. So a fully licensed therapist may have no experience or training in dealing with PDs. Perhaps that's what's happening here? A therapist with little or no experience or training in dealing with PDs dishing out advice that makes sense if everyone inolved were non-PD?

Yes, I agree with this. And it's so important for us here on Out of the FOG to know this.

In fact, an untrained therapist can be an otherwise very good therapist. But for those of us dealing with PD issues, we need a specialist, or a therapist who has dealt well with their own PD issues (which serves well as training LOL).

Perhaps there are also some situations in which the client can train their therapist, if their therapist is open to learning on the job. I have trained my therapist (not on PD's but on another topic) and it has helped me keep that therapist.

[11JB68]

Okay - here's a question - how do we find therapists who are trained/well-versed in dealing with PDs?
I had one who was great, in fact she 'diagnosed' my uPDm as BPD sight unseen and was probably spot on (though I wonder now if m was more OCPD like h is). But she's now retired.
I'd love to find a good therapist but so afraid to pick the wrong one...did that once a couple years ago.