Dad and unwillingness to spend money to help himself -hearing aid

[lkdrymom]

I recommend not offering to sort out phones or aids, and just end phone calls when he can't hear.

Furthermore, I'd recommend that in person you adopt a reasonably - reasonably - higher volume and that's it. No shouting. No moving yourself closer - he can move if he wants, not you.

As a hearing impaired person, I think a modest volume increase and being face to face rather than looking away are the only accommodations other people should make. Oh, and repeating yourself only once, twice on a rare occassion.

He says he can't hear you, well, that's too bad, dad. We can watch the telly together in silence for ten minutes and then I'm heading home.

Its just crazy - why on earth suffer when you can help yourself?

Sometime I do wonder if he prefers things screwed up to be honest.

I've put the phone down umpteen times, told him Im not ringing him if he cant hear. I've had conversations where I' ve said "Im not continuing". HE DOES NOT CARE.

Next time he complains ask him WHAT HE PLANS TO DO ABOUT IT.  When he says he can't do anything respond "oh well guess you will have to live with it then" and move on. Stop jumping in with suggestions. Especially ones that require you to o something.

[GentleSoul]

Next time he complains ask him WHAT HE PLANS TO DO ABOUT IT.  When he says he can't do anything respond "oh well guess you will have to live with it then" and move on. Stop jumping in with suggestions. Especially ones that require you to o something.

I started to do this with the PD that was in my life. It worked really well.  Killed it all stone dead.

Each time he raised some rubbish that I was meant to jump in and take on.  Waste my time and money on it.  I said in my finest Grey Rock style of "oh dear, what are you going to do".

Crickets!  Deafening silence.

Well he didn't want to get off his backside and DO anything, he just wanted to MOAN!

It only took me about 8 years of marriage to realise this but once I did I used this type of phrase all the time.

Or when he suggested something (the undertone always being that his suggestion to me was actually an order that I do whatever it was), I would say "sounds great, you need to look into that" then I would casually stroll off.   

By the time I came back later, the whole idea had been dropped as I hadn't gone into me racing about doing it mode. 

[p123]

PD MIL used to stretch it out into about four hours.  It was very deliberate as she enjoyed taking up their time. They both worked all week so only had the weekend to themselves.

GentleSoul - This is my mom!  She has even admitted that she likes to browse and take her time in the grocery store.  Up and down every aisle, at a snail's pace.  Browsing, picking up items, putting them back, debating what she wants.  It is excruciating painful!  And she is in a senior living facility that provides three meals a day seven days a week - so it's not like she needs a lot of groceries.

I finally had to set a new boundary.  Told mom she has to order groceries.  It's a $5 delivery fee and I even offered to pay that for her.  But I can't do the grocery store shuffle with her any more.  Mom is mad as can be.  I am clearly the worst daughter in the world because I don't enjoy following Mom around the grocery store for an hour or two.  Jeesh 

My father used to think me taking him to the doctor was some sort of treat for me.

Ha ha - I normally do dads groceries and drive 30 mins each way to see him in the evening after work all day, so its 2 hr+ round trip.

He said once "I know you don't mind because its a break for you and chance to get out of the house". Yeh I really would rather listen to you moan then spend time with my wife and kids!

[GentleSoul]

He said once "I know you don't mind because its a break for you and chance to get out of the house". Yeh I really would rather listen to you moan then spend time with my wife and kids!

I laughed out loud at this.   

They are unreal.  The audacity!!   

Have a great day.

[lkdrymom]

PD MIL used to stretch it out into about four hours.  It was very deliberate as she enjoyed taking up their time. They both worked all week so only had the weekend to themselves.

GentleSoul - This is my mom!  She has even admitted that she likes to browse and take her time in the grocery store.  Up and down every aisle, at a snail's pace.  Browsing, picking up items, putting them back, debating what she wants.  It is excruciating painful!  And she is in a senior living facility that provides three meals a day seven days a week - so it's not like she needs a lot of groceries.

I finally had to set a new boundary.  Told mom she has to order groceries.  It's a $5 delivery fee and I even offered to pay that for her.  But I can't do the grocery store shuffle with her any more.  Mom is mad as can be.  I am clearly the worst daughter in the world because I don't enjoy following Mom around the grocery store for an hour or two.  Jeesh 

My father used to think me taking him to the doctor was some sort of treat for me.

Ha ha - I normally do dads groceries and drive 30 mins each way to see him in the evening after work all day, so its 2 hr+ round trip.

He said once "I know you don't mind because its a break for you and chance to get out of the house". Yeh I really would rather listen to you moan then spend time with my wife and kids!

It is amazing how they kid themselves.  You really needed to point out that a 2 hour chore is not exactly the break you needed.  My father thought doctor appointments were a social event so he assumed I did too.

[GentleSoul]

Exactly!  These grocery shop runs or medical appointments are not social events to us, they are CHORES!

Usually chores that the PD person will drag out and make as long as possible!

[GentleSoul]

What I have learnt is that I (ME!) have to be very careful!   I have to stop and pause and pause and pause a bit more before opening my mouth!

Coming from generations of PDs, alcoholics, enablers, co-dependents my thinking was all messed up.  I was trained to jump in and offer to "help" all the time.

I have worked on this and changed it.  I KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT!

The PDs in my life never openly asked me to do chores, medical appointment runs etc.  I had automatically offered.   They would covertly manipulate I would chime in.  Like the well trained daughter/wife I was!!!!

Now, once you have that job it is very difficult to get rid of it. 

I don't do it anymore.

A couple days ago I noticed with pleasure that I had been briefly chatting to an elderly narkie waifie type neighbour who was telling his tales of woe.  He needed to go to a medical appointment.  It was only later I realised my mouth had stayed firmly shut.  I didn't automatically offer.  I guess his adult daughter will get the joy of it!!   I also didn't stay listening to his negative outpourings for long either. 

Also, just putting this out there.  There are such things as getting a taxi.  Also the local hospital here runs a transport service (free). 

Local food shops here will let you pick out your groceries yourself (which I know some people enjoy) then will deliver them to your home later in the day for free.   Or online food shopping if the person can do that, also be delivered for a small fee or some shops for free.

[Hazy111]

The PDs in my life never openly asked me to do chores, medical appointment runs etc.  I had automatically offered.   



Yep, If you've been drenched  in guilt from an early age (be a good boy, theres a good boy, dont upset momma/papa. Praise for doing what they want, inhibiting your own needs and wants. Being hyper aware of their moods. ) its an automatic response later in life. You dont why , but its always there.

[GentleSoul]

Yep, If you've been drenched  in guilt from an early age (be a good boy, theres a good boy, dont upset momma/papa. Praise for doing what they want, inhibiting your own needs and wants. Being hyper aware of their moods. ) its an automatic response later in life. You dont why , but its always there.

Yes!!!   Amen!  All of this. 

I had done loads of personal growth and recovery work on myself, became the real me BUT it must have still been in me as when I met late waifie alkie covert narkie husband it all flared up again. 

By staying with late PD h, it gave me the time to do far more work on myself.   

My late parents were waifie alkie covert narkie types hence why when I encountered waifie alkie covert narkie people I went onto automatic pilot! 

Awareness if key. 

Good to talk about our part in the dynamic.  We can change a lot by changing ourselves and our reactions.  Or rather, our non-reactions.

[p123]

I've noticed recently a lot of people seem to be avoiding Dad. He was moaning the other day that X didnt offer to give him a lift to church any more and friend Y no longer went to Bowls with him.

I just know that hes treated others the same as he does me and people avoid him.

[lkdrymom]

What I have learnt is that I (ME!) have to be very careful!   I have to stop and pause and pause and pause a bit more before opening my mouth!

Coming from generations of PDs, alcoholics, enablers, co-dependents my thinking was all messed up.  I was trained to jump in and offer to "help" all the time.

I have worked on this and changed it.  I KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT!

The PDs in my life never openly asked me to do chores, medical appointment runs etc.  I had automatically offered.   They would covertly manipulate I would chime in.  Like the well trained daughter/wife I was!!!!

Now, once you have that job it is very difficult to get rid of it. 

I don't do it anymore.

A couple days ago I noticed with pleasure that I had been briefly chatting to an elderly narkie waifie type neighbour who was telling his tales of woe.  He needed to go to a medical appointment.  It was only later I realised my mouth had stayed firmly shut.  I didn't automatically offer.  I guess his adult daughter will get the joy of it!!   I also didn't stay listening to his negative outpourings for long either. 

Also, just putting this out there.  There are such things as getting a taxi.  Also the local hospital here runs a transport service (free). 

Local food shops here will let you pick out your groceries yourself (which I know some people enjoy) then will deliver them to your home later in the day for free.   Or online food shopping if the person can do that, also be delivered for a small fee or some shops for free.

You are dealing with a generation that is big on "Hinting" and hoping you will take the bait.  This way they didn't ask you...you volunteered because you WANTED to do it.   The same way my grandmother would keep saying "A cup of coffee would sure be good right about now" instead of asking for coffee or even better getting up off her butt and getting it herself.

[lkdrymom]

I've noticed recently a lot of people seem to be avoiding Dad. He was moaning the other day that X didn't offer to give him a lift to church anymore and friend Y no longer went to Bowls with him.

I just know that hes treated others the same as he does me and people avoid him.

When this happened to my grandmother she would say they didn't want to be around her because she was old.  This means it was something out of her control.  In reality, no one wanted to be around her because she was miserable and wanted you to feel sorry for her.

[GentleSoul]

You are dealing with a generation that is big on "Hinting" and hoping you will take the bait.  This way they didn't ask you...you volunteered because you WANTED to do it.   The same way my grandmother would keep saying "A cup of coffee would sure be good right about now" instead of asking for coffee or even better getting up off her butt and getting it herself.

I agree.  They hint.  Which really is just manipulation.  Also in my experience they expected their minds to be read!

I recall pd mum saying something along the lines of - if I have to tell what I want, it means you don't care.  If you cared you would know!      

[p123]

He said once "I know you don't mind because its a break for you and chance to get out of the house". Yeh I really would rather listen to you moan then spend time with my wife and kids!

I laughed out loud at this.   

They are unreal.  The audacity!!   

Have a great day.

Always says it. Yeh I love to drive an hour round trip, spend an hour listening to you talk rubbish, after I've worked all day!

[p123]

You are dealing with a generation that is big on "Hinting" and hoping you will take the bait.  This way they didn't ask you...you volunteered because you WANTED to do it.   The same way my grandmother would keep saying "A cup of coffee would sure be good right about now" instead of asking for coffee or even better getting up off her butt and getting it herself.

I agree.  They hint.  Which really is just manipulation.  Also in my experience they expected their minds to be read!

I recall pd mum saying something along the lines of - if I have to tell what I want, it means you don't care.  If you cared you would know!   

Ha ha my Dad will sit there and say "I've got to go to the doctors for xyz, dont know how I'm going to get there". And he'll say this about 10 times....
What he wants is for me to say "I'll take you". Which means he wants me to drive 30 mins, drive him 1/4 mile, wait around, take him home, then drive home. Crazy. Even though he could 1) Take his mobililty scooter (cant be bothered) 2) Get a cab (it'd cost him money then and he hates "wasting" it)

He even goes as far as saying "if you have to take time off work and lose money I'll make you're pay up". Which, in his mind, is probably £10-£15 for an afternoons work (he has no clue). Also, he doesn't understand the concept that yes people are human and if it was an emergency then I've yet to meet a client who'd be awkward about it, but bailing on client commitments for stupid crap like that is not on. In his eyes "well just tell them you need to take me". No.

I just ignore him now and change the subject.

[Hazy111]

Mine only pretended he wanted a mobility scooter. Spent a day with him driving one around. Then "He'll think about it" .

To have one means he cant get others to "Help him , ferry him ". Supply, control.  Using taxis also sends a message to anyone ( in his fantasy world)  he has money to use them . Grandiosity . "Look at me" But not when somebody can ferry him.

Also mobility scooters are for old disabled people arent they? In his fantasy world hes not. Grandiosity. Even though he cant walk and has a blue badge as he is registered disabled. Handy for the benefits though.

Schoolboy error by your father there buying one.

[lkdrymom]

You are dealing with a generation that is big on "Hinting" and hoping you will take the bait.  This way they didn't ask you...you volunteered because you WANTED to do it.   The same way my grandmother would keep saying "A cup of coffee would sure be good right about now" instead of asking for coffee or even better getting up off her butt and getting it herself.

I agree.  They hint.  Which really is just manipulation.  Also in my experience they expected their minds to be read!

I recall pd mum saying something along the lines of - if I have to tell what I want, it means you don't care.  If you cared you would know!   

Ha ha my Dad will sit there and say "I've got to go to the doctors for xyz, dont know how I'm going to get there". And he'll say this about 10 times....
What he wants is for me to say "I'll take you". Which means he wants me to drive 30 mins, drive him 1/4 mile, wait around, take him home, then drive home. Crazy. Even though he could 1) Take his mobililty scooter (cant be bothered) 2) Get a cab (it'd cost him money then and he hates "wasting" it)

He even goes as far as saying "if you have to take time off work and lose money I'll make you're pay up". Which, in his mind, is probably £10-£15 for an afternoons work (he has no clue). Also, he doesn't understand the concept that yes people are human and if it was an emergency then I've yet to meet a client who'd be awkward about it, but bailing on client commitments for stupid crap like that is not on. In his eyes "well just tell them you need to take me". No.

I just ignore him now and change the subject.

Yes, the inflated view of themselves.  For some reason, they all think they are royalty. "Just tell them you are doing something for your father...they will understand".  I wonder if your father ever walked off his job to help one of his parents . 

When I was a kid my grandmother would ask me if I told all my friends that she was here visiting. I'd look at her like she was crazy and ask why she thought my friends would need to know that.  It didn't faze her. In her mind she was a VIP and EVERYONE would be thrilled to know she was here.

[p123]

Mine only pretended he wanted a mobility scooter. Spent a day with him driving one around. Then "He'll think about it" .

To have one means he cant get others to "Help him , ferry him ". Supply, control.  Using taxis also sends a message to anyone ( in his fantasy world)  he has money to use them . Grandiosity . "Look at me" But not when somebody can ferry him.

Also mobility scooters are for old disabled people arent they? In his fantasy world hes not. Grandiosity. Even though he cant walk and has a blue badge as he is registered disabled. Handy for the benefits though.

Schoolboy error by your father there buying one.

Well he got one, used it for a few weeks then decided it wasnt suitable for him to use. That he was "too old" to use one.

Even thought the town where he lives there are 100s of old people in scooter. These are ones who TRY to cope, Dad is not a tryer at all.

[p123]

Yes, the inflated view of themselves.  For some reason, they all think they are royalty. "Just tell them you are doing something for your father...they will understand".  I wonder if your father ever walked off his job to help one of his parents . 

When I was a kid my grandmother would ask me if I told all my friends that she was here visiting. I'd look at her like she was crazy and ask why she thought my friends would need to know that.  It didn't faze her. In her mind she was a VIP and EVERYONE would be thrilled to know she was here.

Oh yes. Dad does not understand the difference between employer and client/customer AT ALL. His answer is always "well ask you're boss". I don't have a "boss" Dad..... Yes I've never met a client whos not decent and in an emergency would not be ok about things. But Dads is never an emergency.

Dad would NEVER have walked out of work. EVER. If I was in hospital even....
I've told this story before, brother has a child from previous relationship.  He'd just got married again (to someone else). Anyway, his daughters mother had "issues" and social services phoned brother (he is Dad after all) and basically said can you take her temporarily while mother sorts herself out.

Dad agreed with brother that "he was too busy with work" and she'd have to go into care. After all how could he manage with school drop off etc? And anyway his new wife might not be happy with him taking on his daughter for a few weeks? WOW WOW WOW

I remember going ballistic with Dad, saying how disgusted I was with the pair of them. Theres school breakfast club, after school, childcare etc (but you have to pay for it!). This is what people in the real world do! As for his new wife not liking it, if a new wife of mine refused to let me take responsibility for my kids, she'd be a newly divorced wife.

Dad did not see this at all. All he had was excuses? ("But he can't afford to pay for childcare!") Of course, what doesnt help is Dads attitude that "women look after kids" of course.

In the end, little girl stayed with her gran. My own dear wife (shes so sweet) wanted to offer (even though she struggles with illness herself, and work, and our own kids). It was a difficult one because I didnt want to give brother an easy out.

I'll remember this with Dad for as long as I live.....

When its something he wants, which is never important, then its an emergency and work doesnt matter at all.

[Hazy111]

Hes not interested in trying, your father. Hes interested in controlling you and anyone else for that matter and providing him with the chronic attention he needs (hence the constant dramas). (Narc supply)

Im not diagnosing your father as i think you realise what it is hes suffering from. You came to that conclusion along time ago. But your posts seem to imply that he could change if he just made the effort.  Its not a temporary selfishness or failure to try or think differently, or getting old or whatever excuses people make .

Its a mental illness. Cluster B in the DSM. Cluster B personality disorders are all characterized by emotional dysregulation, impulsivity, and frequent interpersonal conflicts.