Any positive and hopeful stories of transformation in your marriage relationship

[WearyHusband]

Out of the FOG has been a lifeline of sanity, helpful tools, and an encouraging community for me in my marriage to UPDw.
I'm curious. Does anyone have an encouraging story of working on yourself (Caretaker role, codependency, etc.) and seeing your marriage connection improve over the years? Any stories of seeing your marriage to a PD spouse develop more of a healthy connection, joy, intimacy, etc?
-WH

[Cascade]

While I am trying to take better care of my mental health I can't say that my marriage has improved over the years. While we are getting along better, there is also more distance between us. My husband feels more like a roommate than a friend. I'm hoping someone has some positive news to share.

[WearyHusband]

Cascade,
I'm living as a roommate, too. I am hoping to hear some positive news from others. Hang in there. You are loved and not alone.
-WH

[notrightinthehead]

Actually there was one. Coyote. With extremely strict boundaries he seemed to be able to improve his marriage to a point where he seemed happy.  You might find his posts if you search for them.

[Boat Babe]

Both my relationships with uPDs ended with me in bits.  My mother was BROKEN by my father. 

Sorry to be so brutal but IMO disordered personalities do so much harm that I always tell people to run for the hills.

[SonofThunder]

Actually there was one. Coyote. With extremely strict boundaries he seemed to be able to improve his marriage to a point where he seemed happy.  You might find his posts if you search for them.

I miss having Coyote around here on the boards.  I bet he would say #roommate as well though.   I do agree with you that the PD drama died down significantly with his use of the toolbox.  Imo, 'Happy' or 'Satisfied' in the #roommate marriage to a PD is a personal decision and based on many personal factors. 

NotRight, I agree with you that Coyote progressively seemed to project a more stable marriage contentment in the toolbox's ability to reduce drama.  I will have to look back, but I believe he may have a PPDw vs a NPD or BPD, and I believe he made comments regarding his lack of experiences with particular NPD/BPD traits, but was gracious to understand we all have different experiences, yet the outcome is the same.    He departed the boards in about a year (2 maybe) that I joined and was a great mentor for me in ways with his balanced and toolbox-driven comments.  He toned me down quite a bit, teaching me to step outside my situation and look back in, while focusing on PD and toolbox education and application through Out of the FOG and reading other materials.   

For me, as an INTJ, in a long-haul marriage to a PD, now empty-nested and many hobbies, the #roommate situation is tolerable, but never improving.  Sure, I have short spans of more normal, where PD behaviors wax and wane, but I have learned to not let my guard down at any time, because PD will flood back in at any unexpected moment. 

Again, I miss Coyotes great input here on the boards, and Weary...wish I could provide something different than the others have replied.  #roommate is my answer. 

SoT

[GentleSoul]

Sorry, I don't have anything positive to share either.   Late uPD husband and myself were housemates too, which then turned into me being care giver to him as he became ill.

[nillah]

My xuNPD partner started therapy (or at least contacted therapists, idk if he'll actually keep it up) as part of the effort to save the relationship when I told him I was out. For a moment I was really tempted to rescind my breakup because I thought "hmm if he sees a therapist, that will improve a whole lot"... but what really made me realize that expecting change is unrealistic was how he was telling different stories of our relationship to diff people. With me, he would apologize and cry profusely and say how he realizes he has hurt me so deeply, say I'm such a strong woman to put up with it all. Then with his 2 best friends, he would tell such a different story that they would conclude that I'm a terrible person. So he will probably play this same game with a therapist until he gets tired and stops. If he really meant to fix himself, he would have started therapy years ago because that's when I started telling him he might benefit from it.

It all reminded of me of this fun story: when I was in my 20s I lived in a shared house with 2 other ladies and 1 guy. The guy was super charming and handsome, and he would tell each of us a different story of his love life depending on what he sees happening in our own lives. So to one of the ladies who was falling in love with a man living in a different country, he told her how he was also deeply in love with (T.) a woman who lived in a neighboring country and was thinking of moving there just to be with her because she's the love of his life. To another lady who was in casual relationships, he told her how he's really enjoying the freedom of not being in a relationship and seeing so many ppl freely. To me who was getting in a serious relationship, he would tell me about this other woman (S.) with whom he was thinking of having a family and moving to the countryside together. Each of the stories were super believable and we all felt connected to him (he was also syphoning off rent from each of us). Because we were never suspicious and almost never home all at once, the stories went on for over a year! Until one day it all crumbled over a shared dinner ahaha. He acted all hurt and misunderstood, puppy face and all, we were obviously overreacting.

Anywho, when you're hollow inside, the whole therapy thing is understandly SUPER scary. For such a person to really change, they would have to do years and years of painful therapy with a specialized dedicated therapist. It would disrupt their lives in such deep ways, so they probably won't find it worthwhile so they will stop. It's taken me years to come to accept this reality.

[SonofThunder]

My xuNPD partner started therapy (or at least contacted therapists, idk if he'll actually keep it up) as part of the effort to save the relationship when I told him I was out. For a moment I was really tempted to rescind my breakup because I thought "hmm if he sees a therapist, that will improve a whole lot"... but what really made me realize that expecting change is unrealistic was how he was telling different stories of our relationship to diff people. With me, he would apologize and cry profusely and say how he realizes he has hurt me so deeply, say I'm such a strong woman to put up with it all. Then with his 2 best friends, he would tell such a different story that they would conclude that I'm a terrible person. So he will probably play this same game with a therapist until he gets tired and stops. If he really meant to fix himself, he would have started therapy years ago because that's when I started telling him he might benefit from it.

It all reminded of me of this fun story: when I was in my 20s I lived in a shared house with 2 other ladies and 1 guy. The guy was super charming and handsome, and he would tell each of us a different story of his love life depending on what he sees happening in our own lives. So to one of the ladies who was falling in love with a man living in a different country, he told her how he was also deeply in love with (T.) a woman who lived in a neighboring country and was thinking of moving there just to be with her because she's the love of his life. To another lady who was in casual relationships, he told her how he's really enjoying the freedom of not being in a relationship and seeing so many ppl freely. To me who was getting in a serious relationship, he would tell me about this other woman (S.) with whom he was thinking of having a family and moving to the countryside together. Each of the stories were super believable and we all felt connected to him (he was also syphoning off rent from each of us). Because we were never suspicious and almost never home all at once, the stories went on for over a year! Until one day it all crumbled over a shared dinner ahaha. He acted all hurt and misunderstood, puppy face and all, we were obviously overreacting.

Anywho, when you're hollow inside, the whole therapy thing is understandly SUPER scary. For such a person to really change, they would have to do years and years of painful therapy with a specialized dedicated therapist. It would disrupt their lives in such deep ways, so they probably won't find it worthwhile so they will stop. It's taken me years to come to accept this reality.

Nillah,

This was interesting to read and also well written.  The very real story you shared and experienced is fascinating and sounds like some very creative work on behalf of the roommate with the differing stories.  Sounds as if he had the skills to pull off the facade for a long year and also with great planning and timing, except at the end.  I would have enjoyed being a 'fly on the wall' at the revealing get-together and watching him implode in the storytelling. 

I also believe this is great input to Weary's question and to the very real experiences that occurs in therapists offices (and among a PD's different friend groups) when dealing with PD's and therefore the reality that most of us face regarding hopes that a PD can change.  Since PD is an underdevelopment, it's a harsh reality when we come Out of the FOG regarding the truth of our experiences and what lies ahead in our attempted relationship with a PD.

SoT

[JollyJazz]

I don't know if this is the right answer - as it's probably not what you are after. But I do have a hopeful and positive story of healing. I left an extremely emotionally abusive relationship and avoided dating for a year and did a lot of therapy and did a lot of self help work. I'm still working on it. But it's had a lasting effect on the kinds of relationships I have. I have developed my career and myself. The biggest relationship I worked on is the one with myself. I worked on the core belief that I deserved love.

I know this isn't quite the answer you might be after. But we can't really control others. But there's hope and we can heal ourselves. One thing I learned was once I was better healed I stopped fighting for acceptance so much. If someone wants to reject me I can accept it better now. If things don't work out, there's also love out there once we have healed.

Anyway, I hope this helps a little.

To remind myself this I like listening to the song 'All is full of love' by Bjork. Here are the lyrics:

https://genius.com/Bjork-all-is-full-of-love-lyrics

Just remember there's a community here behind these funny emojis that understands and cares

[Mary]

Hi Weary,

For me, each new boundary achieved gives DH and I a healthier bond, I think. It's not a normal bond. It's an arm's length bond, but still a bond.

Author Leslie Vernick emphasizes that marriage problems are not the issue. Abuse is the issue. You have to address the abuse before you can improve the marriage. This is where boundaries (and for me underlying beliefs) really come in. As I set a boundary, I am happier in my skin, and I open a space to enjoy being roommates (plus or minus) with DH.

An example-about two years ago, I drew a line in the sand on a deep seated issue that tore us apart repeatedly. His backlash was severe. Instead of caving, I bought a plane ticket to visit an old friend for a week across the country, something I had never done before. The issue resolved overnight (not the punishment though), and my quality of life is much improved. It might appear that our "marriage" improved, but back to Vernick's paradigm, it was not fixing a marriage but abating the abuse. Out of that experience, I have hope for us to stay together and to enjoy life--not in perfect unity, but in peace. This little poem was meaningful to me then, and it still gives me courage. Out of the FOG poster Tragedy or Hope seems to embody this poem from our standpoint.

"Grow old along with me! The best is yet to be, the last of life, for which the first was made. Our times are in his hand who saith, 'A whole I planned, youth shows but half; Trust God: See all, nor be afraid!"
Robert Browning