I have historically been terrified of seeing BM at the kids' activities for obvious reasons. She's just so volatile. Occasionally she'll run into a friend or something and she'll put on a big show of how friendly she is to us. One time she tried to chat up my family member from out of town. Most other times she'll literally walk past and ignore it if I say hi. (DON'T WORRY BM, WE'RE NOT FRIENDS BUT I CAN AT LEAST BE POLITE IN FRONT OF THE KIDS.) I get migraines sometimes and before events I would be so stressed that I thought a migraine was coming on. And then once it was over that pain would be totally gone. I've gotten better although I still have a lot of work to do in terms of being less stressed.
She's gone back and forth on whether she even attends activities on H's time. There'll be long stretches where she doesn't go at all and sometimes doesn't take the kids on her time either. Then she'll be really religious about attending every single event during H's time. Then it'll taper off so she'll be there occasionally, and those times are the worst because the kids expect her to be there and they're looking around and they're clearly bummed that she's not there.
Sometimes she'll do weird stuff that she clearly thinks is some kind of power move but in reality it's totally fine? Like she'll give the kids food or buy them a toy or something. It's fine but you can tell she really thinks she's GETTING US. Like ... okay?
Oh the other thing that is really sad is that she usually brings a book, and if she doesn't do that she spends the whole time on her phone. So the kids are constantly looking up at all of us, and you can just see the disappointment when they realize she's not watching them at all.
DH basically only goes to special events on her time, like recitals or games. Practices or regular lessons he skips in order to not create that same uncertainty on the other end.
Her latest thing is to show up late and then sit as far away from us as possible so that the other kid has to choose between their parents. A common tactic, I know, and it's just so awful to watch it in action. (For awhile she was sending H nasty emails about how he has to sit right next to her because otherwise he's alienating the kids, then when he would try to sit by her she would say all the seats around her were taken even though clearly no one was there.)
Which brings us to this weekend. I had family in town again and the kids were super excited to show them their lessons. So we're there, everyone is having fun and chatting, and BM sweeps in 15 minutes late. And for whatever reason this time the presence of my family just totally threw her off. Maybe it was because the kids were less inclined to rush over to her when they had rarely-seen family there as well. Maybe it was because she couldn't even try to intimidate me and DH when we were so busy talking to family. Who knows. Anyway so she was sitting there, I guess getting madder and madder, reading her book and ignoring the kids, and finally she left early. She gave DSS what sounded like some kind of lecture and didn't say goodbye to DSD at all. Then she got home and sent DH a bunch of really nasty messages. Stuff like, she says she's going to hold the kids' future extracurriculars hostage unless he starts trading parenting time with her again. Or, demanding that he weigh in on really broad topics and refusing to say what specifically she wants to actually discuss.
It seemed clear to me that she was so mad that we were having fun without her, that she felt so humiliated by our very existence, that she was punishing DH. And of course it's the kids that would miss out, at least if she does what she said she was going to do. What is the most frustrating is that, of all the times I've had to see her, this is the only time I haven't really been stressed about it. And because I wasn't quite as terrified of her as normal, the kids suffered or at the very least DH did through the messages.
Also, my family wasn't even sure if that was the kids' mom because she was so weird about the whole thing.
As a sidenote, one time she brought her boyfriend and she was clearly delighted by the thought that this would DH uncomfortable. They ended up chatting the whole time as, again, she got madder and madder. She never brought him to anything ever again and she hasn't brought any subsequent boyfriends to things on H's parenting time either.
I know this is not a big issue in the scheme of things and I can suck it up. The kids want me to go, they get really sad if I miss more than an occasional thing. But it's such a no win situation. BM tries her very hardest to sit there and make us miserable. And if she doesn't succeed she takes it out on the kids.
This is all because she wants the attention, or wants to create drama, or wants to hurt you and your husband. It's sad because its really creating a bad environment for the kids. I hate to see my kids disappointed like that, and I usually attempt to talk to them about it, but I don't really know what else to do. But I totally agree, I had to see mine at a baseball game this weekend, it was awkward which is better than awful at least.
Hi PL,
So many of your posts are so familiar to me. I have that same physical reaction about seeing BM. I remember the first time I said something to DH about how uncomfortable I was, I said, "I would literally rather stick pins in my eyes than see BM tonight". The shock that popped onto his face, he was like, "I didn't realize it was that bad for you!". Yep...and he didn't know because really she tortured him. We had a few years though, it was U_G_L_Y! BM cornering and screaming at us, calling us names, trying to catch me by myself to tell me my husband is an abuser! She forced the kids to ONLY sit with her. If it's our time and it's their siblings activity, they are on panicked lookout for BM, and the second she shows up they have to run over and leave us for the rest of the activity. Even on her time, when they haven't seen us in a week, they can't come say hi until the end, much less sit with us. DSS has basically let us know that if they don't do this for BM, they have consequences. We've let him know it's ok and we understand. But- the terror we've seen in their eyes when they weren't sure where BM was, and they had to ignore us to ensure they didn't get caught.
But the stupidity in some of the things that are said. So- we have a really extreme situation, we in no way are going to site anywhere near BM...ever! We sit as far as we can. Some of the activities only have these tiny bleachers, and BM usually camps out on them. So, DH and I started bringing camping chairs to the outdoor events, and we can sit wherever we are comfortable. The kids started asking us, "Why do you bring chairs, you know you can just sit on the bleachers?". Based on the snarky tone it was obvious something was being said...and they acted embarrassed as though we were being snooty bringing our own chairs. I just looked at DH and was like,"what do they want us to do, sit with her? They know the horror that would be?" Now that BM has a 2 year old, she also bring chairs and she sits, literally, so far from the field there is no way you can see (she needs shade, she's allergic to the sun now). She and her BF also read during activities, drives me batty, why even show up? Too far away to see, reading a book or chasing the 2 year old. DH and I make a point of not looking at our phone and always having eyes on the kids. DSS often looks up to catch our eye and grins and does a sly little side wave.
It's just insanity though, she claims she has PTSD from horrid abuse, yet we are the ones making sure we use the bathroom before we leave the house so she can't catch one of us alone and rage. She did follow me into the bathroom one time, luckily her timing sucked and I got out unscathed. DH left me for literally 1 minute once to run out to the car for something, and she flung her body across the recreation lobby ranting at me, DH saw through the window and ran back in.
Quote from: Stepping lightly on September 23, 2019, 11:53:39 AM
She forced the kids to ONLY sit with her. If it's our time and it's their siblings activity, they are on panicked lookout for BM, and the second she shows up they have to run over and leave us for the rest of the activity. Even on her time, when they haven't seen us in a week, they can't come say hi until the end, much less sit with us. DSS has basically let us know that if they don't do this for BM, they have consequences. We've let him know it's ok and we understand. But- the terror we've seen in their eyes when they weren't sure where BM was, and they had to ignore us to ensure they didn't get caught.
This. Exactly. stbx will not allow the kids to come see me when there is an activity on his parenting time. The kids feel awful and apologize to me profusely afterwards. I tell them it's ok, I understand. If an event falls on my time and stbx is there, I always make sure to remind them to say bye to their dad afterwards. Most of the time, I have to schedule regular activities around stbx's time - the kids refuse to allow him to take them to any activities, if at all possible. They specifically won't go to a practice if they know he will be there. Only exceptions are the larger events where all parents are expected to attend. They are also terrified of stbx's reaction if he catches them talking to me. It's heartbreaking.
Oh boy. Same here.
But ds12 is really uncomfortable if I attend his sport, which currently happens on his time with his uNPD father.
He becomes a completely different boy when I am in the same venue as his uNPD father and uNPD smum.
When I used to go I'd sometimes drive him to the game/training. We'd be having a lovely conversation on the way to the venue - laughing, singing together. Once at the venue though, he'd run immediately across to them, refuse to look at me, was rude to me if I interacted with him, would physically push me away sometimes. Then, once back in the car the switch would be flipped back again and he'd be back to being my beautiful boy.
I no longer attend his sport. Mainly because of his discomfort, but also to keep myself safe from the abuse of uNPD exH and his uNPD wife. Even my hello isn't safe, so I don't interact with them at all. I sit as far away from them as possible.
For a year or so uNPD exH had basically been telling me I shouldn't attend ds's sport as it makes ds uncomfortable. Finally, after much discussion with ds, and with his agreement, I stopped attending. (Hurts like billyo).
Then ds comes home and accuses me of "not supporting the team". I could tell it was a direct quote from the uNPD smum.
I just reminded ds of our discussion and the reasons for our decision.
Now, uNPD smum is both coach and team manager. (Woduyuno?) No way will I be going.
However, from next year I'll have to go to the games as they'll be happening on ds's time with me....
Oh there's so much more I could tell regarding the extra curricular sport.
AOD
At first BM wouldn't attend SD's school events. Then I think once she found out I was going, she started going (maybe the timing was just a coincidence. Only she knows for sure). At any rate, it started where we would take SD to the event because it was our night, but since BM was there she would go home with her. Then it started being SD wanted to go to BM's on the night of the event even if it was SO's night because BM's house was 15 min closer to school. We would do a "trade" which never happened (like we would never get the night we were switching for). If it's an awards ceremony where the kids sit in the crowd, SD would always sit with BM. SO tries to sit far away from BM and near the last row so he can keep an eye on her. He'd also rather stick pins in his eyes than see her, but if she's around he'd rather see her approach so she can't surprise him. I'm assuming that's a PTSD thing too since when they used to live together she would hide then sucker-punch him once he walked past her. So anywhere we go, he will not sit with his back to the door. He has to see the people walk in the room/restaurant/whatever.
I always want to know if there's something to do about this because SO and I can hardly make plans with SD after something that BM will be at because SD will just cancel our plans to go home with BM. Like in the beginning when we were driving SD to the award ceremony/school event we would plan on going to dinner after, and SD would sound excited, but then after talking to BM she would go home with her. Once SD and I planned a fun day over her winter break and I took off work. Guess who decided to go to BM's instead. Then when SD started staying at BM's last year we would make dinner plans, but guess what? BM invited her brothers over that same night so our plans got cancelled. I could give so many examples. I guess we just have to get used to this becasue it will never end.
BM's luckily never cornered me, but I don't think I've given her the chance. She has contacted me on social media to invite me over so she can tell me about SO's abuse. Believe it or not I said I was fine without talking to her about it. Then a couple years later, she wanted me to update her about SD's oral surgery. After I did she started going off on how abusive SO is and how I would find the truth soon. I stopped responding. I've never even heard SO raise his voice, but I guess I just don't know him well enough after almost five years lol
PL, my guess is with your family being in town, BM couldn't suck attention away from that so got mad. IMO the world wasn't revolving around her because someone from out of town was in, getting her needed attention instead. So everyone else has to pay the price.
IMO it is a big issue because it just reiterates to the kids that they have to do whatever the PD parent wants because the kids know she/he'll rage if they don't. Like I'm sure your kids were focused on your family becasue they don't see them often, but BM didn't like not having the attention. She couldn't be the "Hero" for showing up, because someone else was there to play that part. So she had to express her hurt feelings by raging on everyone after about something probably unrelated.
Sorry to hear you're all dealing with similar issues! It must be so hard for these poor kids to manage this kind of situation.
One time when BM sat really really far away from us and DSS was standing exactly in the middle, I contemplated telling him that it was fine if he went and sat with her. He eventually did but maybe we should have that conversation with him before the next activity. Like, you don't have to feel bad, we get that it's awkward and we will not be offended if you go sit with your mom. Maybe even like, if he feels like he's being caught in the middle he can do some kind of signal to us that says "I love you" to H so he doesn't have to feel guilty? Like he can scratch his ear and that's a reminder that he loves us too, that he knows he can love both parents.
I'm especially worried about what she said to them and how she treated them when they went back to her house. Her behavior probably did reiterate that they're not allowed to not be with her if she comes to an event.
My guess is this is moot for awhile because she won't be coming to activities on our time in the near future. She was apparently so humiliated by us having fun and not feeling terrorized by her. My guess is she won't want a repeat of it. So again the kids will miss out on their mom's presence, because it's either be the center of attention or refuse to show up at all.
When there are events or recitals on BM's time, she rushes the kids out so they can't say goodbye to H. One time they had back to back activities at the same spot and she actually had someone pick up the kid whose activity went first and didn't tell DH. Since I came into the picture I've made a point of making sure that the kids can say goodbye to their mom before we leave. She doesn't do it for DH - but it's not a favor to her, it's for the kids. I think they'll remember who facilitated their relationship with the other parent and who tried to disrupt it.
BM has never tried to corner me at an event but she did used to corner DH and scream at him. I think she mostly tries to pretend to herself that I don't exist. She has screamed at me at our house though so I'm always on guard. SL, like you said we don't really want to sit near her although it probably wouldn't be as dangerous for us to do so as for you.
SL, the book thing really drives me crazy and I too am like, why even bother coming? I think her behavior this weekend shows clearly that it's not at all about actually seeing and supporting the kids. It's about the thrill of forcing the kids to choose between her and their dad and the supply she gets when they do so. Them just looking up from their activity and waving at her isn't enough supply for her to even bother looking up from her book. I'm certain that the kids notice she's on her phone so much, too. One time I was trying to text DH a picture I'd taken of DSS doing his activity. But it wasn't going through and I was intermittently trying to deal with that. Afterward DSS totally called me out! I said, "wow that was really fun to watch!" And he said "well why were you on your phone the whole time?" I felt bad but I was pretty proud of him for saying that to me. And it gave me an opportunity to explain that actually what I was doing on my phone was part of my enjoying of the activity! I wonder if he's ever called BM out on not paying any attention to them during activities.
I will never forget the look on SD's face when she looked around for her mom and realized she'd left without saying goodbye ... it really was heartbreaking. I gave her lots of hugs and kisses but I really don't think I (or even DH, for that matter) can save her from that disappointment.
QuoteMaybe even like, if he feels like he's being caught in the middle he can do some kind of signal to us that says "I love you" to H so he doesn't have to feel guilty? Like he can scratch his ear and that's a reminder that he loves us too, that he knows he can love both parents.
I think this is a great idea!
Maybe I could offer a different perspective? I am the mother of two children with a man who is now in a new relationship. My ex has some pretty toxic behaviours and from what I've heard his new wife does too, so this could be the key difference here in what I'm about to say.
If my ex's new wife brought her family to my kids sports activities or any other extra curricular activity that I would have to attend, I would be devastated. Of course, I wouldn't say anything and I definitely would make sure that the kids wouldn't notice, but it would really hurt me. Do you think this is how she felt? Hurt? And it manifested in her behaviour? I suppose if you don't have a PD, it is easier to not react, perhaps. I'm of the opinion that I want nothing to do with my ex's wife as it wasn't just him that caused me a lot of abusive behaviour. It was her too. I have never met and nor do I want to.
I would also not want to make my kids vulnerable to the situation too. They would feel extremely uncomfortable if this situation occurred. I guess, in the future, I know that my ex's wife might attend the school nativity play or the school orchestra events, but I know that I will make sure that it is co-ordinated so that I am not there when they are.
I suppose the difference is that my ex will keep me away from his new wife. He wouldn't want us in the same room and I guess the circumstances in how you got with your new husband are different to mine .
I just wanted to pose the question from a different perspective.
Plainwords,
I have all the room in the world for the idea that people feel hurt when relationships end. But, if we share children, then we will be in community with each other. Healthy adults should be able to be on the side of the same soccer field or at the same school play.
So, although it does occur to me that my ex husband might genuinely be in pain, this does not mean that I think it is okay for him to allow that pain to manifest into things like browbeating our children into not approaching me or my fiancé at school events or continuing to beseech the principal to ban my fiancé from school grounds or refusing to allow the kids to sign up for the science fair.
Personally, I kept my shit together (mostly, lol) in public and in front of the kids for years when the man tried to make my life a living hell. I absolutely expect him not to interfere with his children's peace because he is agitated that I moved on and he has to share the same public space with me once a quarter.
Thanks to both of you for your perspectives.
Arkhangelsk, thank you for gracefully articulating what I was struggling to say. I think it's probably true that BM was in pain. But I too am constantly not just in pain but terrified of her. It's worse for my husband, whom she was emotionally abusive to during the marriage. And the one time I managed to break through that and be truly happy in her presence, she just moved on to terrorizing and threatening the people I love in a different way. It feels like, we're never going to be happy because if BM ever sees even a glimmer that we are, she will turn her full attention to destroying that happiness. And she will always have leverage because she's willing to hurt the kids to get at DH, and DH has to find a way to mitigate it often at great cost to him (and ancillary cost to me). I don't think that's an OK way to handle her hurt. And I don't think it's my responsibility that she would do this in retaliation for my and my family's presence at a place the kids asked us to be.
plainwords, I don't want to minimize the hurt you feel because it is real and it does matter. I think even in healthy divorce situations, when no one is doing anything wrong, there is bound to be some hurt feeling, especially around new stepparents. And of course that is compounded by PD behavior coming from the ex. I also think it's important that the adults take care with each other's feelings, for the sake of the children if nothing else.
And yet, I can't put BM's feelings first because the kids' feelings need to come first. I think you are right that our situations are very different. The kids are with us half the time, they are much more integrated into our lives than your kids are with your ex. They beg me to come to their activities, and they get really disappointed when I don't. They were especially excited to show off their activities to these out of town guests. So what, do I tell our guests "I know you want to come and the kids want you to come, but you should stay home in case BM shows up and gets mad and then uses this to try to hurt the kids?" No, we can't give in to her bad behavior like that. It's not good for the kids and really it ultimately teaches them that they should give in to emotional abuse and manipulation. I do make some concessions to BM's feelings - notably, I don't attend events on her parenting time, even though she doesn't extend the same courtesy to my husband and she does bring others to events on his time.
I hope we can all agree that each situation is different, that sometimes it's appropriate for stepparents to attend activities/games and sometimes it isn't. And that other adults, even exes, should be treated with respect - but at the same time, when the ex or the stepparent is a PD you need to take steps to protect yourself and the kids.
Arkhangelsk, it's interesting that you say your ex has tried to ban your fiance from school grounds. BM has done the same with me, more or less, although unsuccessfully. Her mom picks the kids up from school on her time, my husband picks the kids up from school on his time. But the handful of times I've filled in she's about lost her mind. I always get the sense that it isn't about me at all but rather she is trying to control H. She doesn't want H to have a safety net in terms of caring for the kids and she wants him to rely on her (so that she can ask for insane concessions in return for her help and so that she can jerk him around in ways that affect his job - this is what she used to do when they would swap time more readily).
Oh, yes. The war on me having any support has been intense. My ex told the judge and the principal that my fiancé was a danger to him. Thank goodness no one took this seriously.
But, my ex also declared me unfit as a mother for letting my good friend sit the kids (which she has done for years). Claims my friend is violent and in a cult (with me - because we train together at a martial arts gym).
I think a huge thing that is a problem, Penny Lane, is that the kids love these people. The kids love their step dad and want him to come to their activities. They recently suggested we put on disguises in order to so - to be there and avoid upsetting their father. They have very elaborate plans for what we should wear.
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on September 25, 2019, 04:06:27 PM
They recently suggested we put on disguises in order to so - to be there and avoid upsetting their father. They have very elaborate plans for what we should wear.
That's creative and adorable, and so sad.
I think you're right that the ultimate problem, in BM's mind and it sounds like your ex's, is that the kids love other people. Primarily their dad, DH, but also everyone around him. She is so threatened by the positive relationship the kids have with him that it infuriates her to have to see it. That makes me sad too because we try to teach the kids that they can have room in their heart to love both parents. But they're getting the opposite modeled for them at their other home.
It is especially fun that they think my costume should include high heels. It is apparently clear to them that no one would recognize me in that.
I suspect my ex needs to exist in a narrative where I am a bad person. So the kids loving me and the people I bring into their lives contradicts that.
Quote from: Arkhangelsk on September 25, 2019, 01:46:40 PM
Plainwords,
I have all the room in the world for the idea that people feel hurt when relationships end. But, if we share children, then we will be in community with each other. Healthy adults should be able to be on the side of the same soccer field or at the same school play.
So, although it does occur to me that my ex husband might genuinely be in pain, this does not mean that I think it is okay for him to allow that pain to manifest into things like browbeating our children into not approaching me or my fiancé at school events or continuing to beseech the principal to ban my fiancé from school grounds or refusing to allow the kids to sign up for the science fair.
Personally, I kept my shit together (mostly, lol) in public and in front of the kids for years when the man tried to make my life a living hell. I absolutely expect him not to interfere with his children's peace because he is agitated that I moved on and he has to share the same public space with me once a quarter.
I guess that's where we are different. I wouldn't put myself in a situation where I would even be in the same room as my ex and new partner as they've made the last 4 years of mine and my son's life hell and I need some peace for my own well being even if that means I miss out on one of my kids activities. I suppose I am fortunate that they don't really bother with social stuff with the kids as it interferes with their social life. He doesn't even bother taking the kids to see his family. I facilitate that if they want to see them. I would rather that he did it, but I know that isn't going to happen any time soon. When he does start to pay more interest in the kids, which is unlikely as it's been 4 years and he fakes an interest in his kids to seem like an upstanding member of society.
Quote from: Penny Lane on September 25, 2019, 02:36:35 PM
Thanks to both of you for your perspectives.
Arkhangelsk, thank you for gracefully articulating what I was struggling to say. I think it's probably true that BM was in pain. But I too am constantly not just in pain but terrified of her. It's worse for my husband, whom she was emotionally abusive to during the marriage. And the one time I managed to break through that and be truly happy in her presence, she just moved on to terrorizing and threatening the people I love in a different way. It feels like, we're never going to be happy because if BM ever sees even a glimmer that we are, she will turn her full attention to destroying that happiness. And she will always have leverage because she's willing to hurt the kids to get at DH, and DH has to find a way to mitigate it often at great cost to him (and ancillary cost to me). I don't think that's an OK way to handle her hurt. And I don't think it's my responsibility that she would do this in retaliation for my and my family's presence at a place the kids asked us to be.
plainwords, I don't want to minimize the hurt you feel because it is real and it does matter. I think even in healthy divorce situations, when no one is doing anything wrong, there is bound to be some hurt feeling, especially around new stepparents. And of course that is compounded by PD behavior coming from the ex. I also think it's important that the adults take care with each other's feelings, for the sake of the children if nothing else.
And yet, I can't put BM's feelings first because the kids' feelings need to come first. I think you are right that our situations are very different. The kids are with us half the time, they are much more integrated into our lives than your kids are with your ex. They beg me to come to their activities, and they get really disappointed when I don't. They were especially excited to show off their activities to these out of town guests. So what, do I tell our guests "I know you want to come and the kids want you to come, but you should stay home in case BM shows up and gets mad and then uses this to try to hurt the kids?" No, we can't give in to her bad behavior like that. It's not good for the kids and really it ultimately teaches them that they should give in to emotional abuse and manipulation. I do make some concessions to BM's feelings - notably, I don't attend events on her parenting time, even though she doesn't extend the same courtesy to my husband and she does bring others to events on his time.
I hope we can all agree that each situation is different, that sometimes it's appropriate for stepparents to attend activities/games and sometimes it isn't. And that other adults, even exes, should be treated with respect - but at the same time, when the ex or the stepparent is a PD you need to take steps to protect yourself and the kids.
Arkhangelsk, it's interesting that you say your ex has tried to ban your fiance from school grounds. BM has done the same with me, more or less, although unsuccessfully. Her mom picks the kids up from school on her time, my husband picks the kids up from school on his time. But the handful of times I've filled in she's about lost her mind. I always get the sense that it isn't about me at all but rather she is trying to control H. She doesn't want H to have a safety net in terms of caring for the kids and she wants him to rely on her (so that she can ask for insane concessions in return for her help and so that she can jerk him around in ways that affect his job - this is what she used to do when they would swap time more readily).
I was trying to articulate a different perspective (although probably badly, I admit) as when I read that your family were at the event, I just imagined myself in that situation and how completely intimidated and overwhelmed I'd be if I walked in to find my ex's wife's family there and I was on my own. When you look at that and then imagine you have a PD, then you're going to get some pretty unusual behaviour going on. It's expected.
I am not trying to say what you did is wrong as your situation is different, but if that situation occurred, I probably wouldn't stay. I'd hope that my ex would have a little compassion, but that's probably expecting too much.
I think I see a lot of people on this forum that are the new partner's of someone that has been in a relationship with a PD and my situation is the opposite and so I kind of have some empathy for the PD BM you talk about, rightly or wrongly as I know that my ex would portray me as someone that is crazy to his new wife, who then went on to cause all kinds of drama for me and my kids encouraged by my ex.
Plainwords, I think your perspective was a good reminder that even though the PD parent may not be going about it in the best way, they do have feelings and are easily hurt. I think what is most frustrating about this is not that BM was hurt or uncomfortable, but how she chose to act as a result of that. IMO PDs do have a choice in how they act. It is more difficult when you're so overwhelmed with emotions you feel like you're going to burst or erupt, but you can practice mindfulness or find other ways to not take out your anger/sadness/frustrations on others. It is hard work, I don't want to minimize that. It must be heart breaking to know the kids have another family that isn't yours. But that family is still apart of the kids' family even if it isn't a part of your family.
I've been lucky in that BM didn't mind when I brought my mom to SD's school functions. SD is the only grandkid my mom will probably ever really have. Maybe that is selfish of me to invite her. Although SO's parents are deceased so SD just has my parents and BM's mom. Maybe there are no really good answers. I feel there never are.
I think someone (can't remember who) had a good point when they said bring the family on your night with the kids and not the PD parent's time (if it seems to cause an issue). I think also reminding the kids that even "if they feel they can't say "hi" to you, you know they still love you" is important. That way they aren't stuck feeling like they have to choose. I also think that not giving in to the PDs parents tantrum is also good, becasue IMO you would be rewarding bad behavior. Another thought though (and not sure if it's a good idea) would be to let her know next time "x family member will be attending tonight just to let you know." But I don't know if that would help or make it worse. But that way it's not a surprise for her (and maybe it wasn't. Maybe the kids told her they would be there).
One of the reasons I post a lot here is because I'm pretty sure I fit the diagnostic criteria for BPD when I was in my 20s (the outward symptoms have improved greatly, but it took a lot of work). And sometimes I don't know if I'm freaking out over nothing. So I come here to listen to what others have to say. Then we brainstorm on good ways to talk to SD about it if it is a legit issue, or ways I can work through it on my own (or with SO) if it's not really a problem. And sometimes just talking about it and feeling heard helps a lot too. I was invalidated a lot as a child ,and BM triggers that in me. She triggers the shit out of me actually and I have to keep it all in most of the time. Then I get mad because it feels like she's allowed to have tantrums or do inconsiderate things while I work so hard to appear normal and level headed. I might get a BM stress ball. Then I can squeeze it when I'm mad at her. I'm getting a little off topic here. Sorry.
Anyway, I guess the best thing do is try to mitigate problems while still taking care of what's important to you. We can't bend over backwards for the PD, but sometimes we can approach situations better. I feel we all do this here. We are always asking "how can I make this better?" "Should I let the PD get away with this?" "should we discuss this with the kids?" and then hear what everyone has to say. Most of the time there's no clear answer. And there's so much to weigh: our feelings, the kids' feelings, the ex's feelings/reactions. We want to keep things fair (at least I do, sometimes I obsess over what is fair) while mitigating problems. Usually "fair" and "decreasing problems" are opposite things.
I guess the crux of the issue, Penny, is that having your family there hit some vulnerable spot for BM, and if you aren't sure why she was triggered (like what vulnerability was hit) there's really no sure way to know how to make that better next time. Maybe that looks like telling them "my family will be watching you, but if you don't feel comfortable saying hi to them at your event, that's okay. We can all hang out later." Or maybe it's doing what your doing, knowing she may rage after. Or giving her the heads up they are coming (but who knows how that will go over). It can be heartbreaking to do something that is nice for the kids (seeing people they like who are a part of their/your family), but the PD parent doesn't react well. This should have been a fun night for everyone, and it wasn't. I am sorry. I think in this situation BM's thoughts were "You hurt me, now I'll hurt you so you know what it feels like..."
athene1399 - yes, I agree with everything you said, esp about how the PD choose to react as a result of being hurt. It's the key point and something I also should have said.
I have largely stayed quiet with my ex and his wife and have maintained very low contact (except in the early days when I was just so overcome with 'justice'). I hated that my ex introduced my son to his new girlfriend in the first couple of weeks of them becoming official and I was still pregnant with my daughter and I did lose it. Since then, I have purposefully kept a very low profile. The pair of them have done everything imaginable to get a reaction out of me, so I found it drives them nuts that I just don't react and now they seem to have just given up. Well, fingers crossed.
I do wonder how he will react when I do meet someone else. Actually, I'm dreading it. I will keep it quiet for as long as possible, but then whilst he appears to suffer from a PD and very poor mental health awareness, I also don't think I'd invite my new partner to any events that he might also attend. BUT, that hasn't happened yet and I may feel differently at that stage.
Sorry to hijack the post.
Plainwords,
I am really sorry your ex is such an exquisite jerk and that his actions make painful for you to be in certain places in the community. That just makes me sad in my heart.
I think we all wish we were co-parenting with kind, healthy people so we could all focus on our kids.
When we are not, like Athene said, we just have to do our best to discern the best course of action.
Penny Lane,
I forgot to mention - we taught the kids the "I love you" sign with one hand. We told them they could use it to "signal" us if they wanted to be covert. I do not push the issue of saying hi to them when we are out and about. My favorite part of this is that my ex then declares to teachers and others that the kids do not want to see me and act scared when they do. Sure thing. They are scared. Of whatever he says and does when they let it be known that the see us.
:stars:
DSD came back from her mom's house, post-the activity, and she was incredibly rude just to me not to DH. This is the first time anything like this has ever happened. It was really extreme, like she was remarkably not herself. She would not explain what was going on or why she was acting this way, either to me or DH or both of us together. Both of us have a gut feeling that BM said something to her or somehow made her feel that this is what she's supposed to be doing. (The kids have certainly been rude and/or defiant in the past, not BM-related. This feels different). She eventually calmed down and she seemed to feel really sad and torn about the whole thing, even as she was being rude. She eventually apologized for the rudeness and then was extra snuggly, almost like she was trying to make up for lost time.
I'm so worried about this but there's not much we can do other than monitor it, I guess. I do think BM would have a much, much easier time destroying my relationship with the kids than she would destroying DH's. I mean it's kind of obvious right? Hopefully the foundation we've built is enough to withstand a new onslaught.
Arkhangelsk - at the wedding I had my hair and makeup done, really a minimal amount of primping for a pretty laid back wedding. DSS did NOT like it, announced that I don't look like myself and asked can I please go back to normal as soon as possible? It could've been obnoxious but he was just young enough that it was simply cute.
plainwords - my best advice is if you do start dating to keep it under wraps from your ex and his new wife as long as possible. BM found out we were dating pretty early on and let's just say it was a good thing that I already really liked my now-husband because she tried her best to drive me off. But, as plenty of stories on this board show, people can survive and thrive in new relationships, even with a PD ex! They can't actually steal your happiness even though they might try their best.
Hi PL,
That is too bad that DSD came back acting that way. It might be worth talking about it at a later point, in a low pressure way. When my DSD and I have had some tense times, I'll come back later and say, "are we ok? Seems there was someone going on, and I just want to make sure everything is ok now. You are really special to me, and I really value our relationship". Don't ask her what it is, but let her know you noticed it, and want to make sure there is nothing lingering. I think it's also important for them to know, "hey...there was friction, it's ok...still love ya kid! nothing has changed!"
That also gives you the opportunity if it happens again, to say, "this is similar to some friction we had last week, can we talk about what is going on? If something i am doing is upsetting you, I want to know so we can fix it".
That's a good point. We've been focused on teaching the kids how to make it right when they do something wrong. Usually this is when they rage at DH but we basically applied the same model here - he walked DSD through what she needed to do (apologize to me and to stop being so rude). But I think you're right, we also need to focus on letting her know that she's unconditionally loved, even though she feels bad about having to make amends.