uPD sib and ill father

[LemonLime]

Hi All,
First, thank you for being my lifeline the past several years.  I really don't know where I'd be without you.  I think the ToolKit and the validation I get from this site have been sanity-saving.

My dear father is seriously ill in the hospital and may not live much longer.  He and my mom live in a different city from me, and a different country from my sib.

As backstory, my parents are generally wonderful and nons.   My mom is enmeshed, ACOA and has poor boundaries.  Dad is super-smart and sweet but doesn't get "involved" in conflict.  Both parents are conflict-averse.  My sib is older than me and was a poor match for my conflict-averse mom. Dad worked and didn't do much of the interpersonal relationship work between his kids.  Mom and sib argued a lot when she was a teen and she was rebellious.  I came along and was compliant, which probably irritated sib to no end.

Over the years sib "made up" with mom and has been an adoring daughter ever since.  Now we're middle-aged.  Sib has always allowed herself to "rage" when angry and we have cowered and allowed her to pretend to forget it ever happened.  We've all enabled her.

A few years ago she raged at me, the first time really ever.  Rages had traditionally been aimed at my mom and the number of rage episodes had dwindled to almost none over the last decade.   Sib and I have bonded over frustration with Mom over the years and I was cautiously optimistic that could continue til we both died.  But when she raged at me over perceived dishwashing deficits a few years ago, I think my reaction to her was totally different than she expected.  As a mom of a tween girl I moved immediately into protective mode and I wasn't going to allow my kiddo to see me abused verbally.  So I calmly verbally set limits with sib and then went VLC.   She tried to lovebomb me all the while trying to pretend the rage didn't happen, and I even alluded to getting therapy with her so we could work things out.  She ignored my plea for this, and acted as though she never saw the letter I wrote to her asking to work on things.

Then i found this site, thank goodness, and learned that I am not crazy but that the situation is hopeless.  That she is injured and will not change.  That my choices are to 1) put up and shut up OR 2) impose limits that will by default cause basically a cordial but very cool relationship with her.

A choose the latter because I have finally found my voice and I'm not going back. 

Dad is sick and I want to go visit him and mom.  Sib is flying in tomorrow to stay indefinitely at their house.  I'm so frustrated because I will have to share space with her if I stay at the house.  Either that or stay in a hotel.  I don't think I can hold it together if we stay together, as I think she will bait me.

I don't know what I'm asking of you all.  Just need to vent, I guess.  I am so angry that she is able to take a terrible situation and make it worse, all the while looking like an angel to my mom and dad's friends.  Mom witnessed the rage and ostensibly is on "my" side, but she continues to love her PD daughter of course.  I don't blame a mom for loving her child.   I'm sorry my sib has childhood wounds, but they're not my fault. 

I have a list of do's and don'ts for interacting with sib.  I have not seen her in person for 4 years and have barely spoken with her on the phone.  She has no children. 

Thanks for listening.  I've been dreading this day.  PD is a terrible illness, isn't it?  It's invisibly destructive.   It's crazy-making.  It's so sad.  It's not fair.

[Poison Ivy]

I'm sorry this is happening, LemonLime. One of my brothers recently did something that I categorize as taking a terrible situation and making it worse. My feelings are similar to yours.

[LemonLime]

Thank you Poison Ivy.  It means a lot to me that others understand.  Somehow it just soothes me.

[walking on broken glass]

Hello LemonLime,

I am so sorry you are going through this. I would also dread staying in the same house as my uBPD sister. Even just being on my own with my parents triggers memories. It's been many years since I have been alone with them in their place, just like when I was a kid. I had to do it very recently because my mum was having a surgery and I went to help, but I wasn't looking forward to it and it was difficult. I am sure you are already aware of this, but just to warn you that BPDs tend to get very stressed and lash out in critical health situations. They also see it as an opportunity to be the centre of attention. My sister would overdramatize how much she cares and how much she is worried, all the while trying to turn the attention on herself. She would call my mum and talk to her for hours, even though she was recovering from a surgery, and she wanted to do the same with me but I refused to oblige. Mind you, two weeks later she still messages me every day and tries to get me to talk to her. We have been VLC for the past 10 years or so. Yet family situations such as these disturb the balance.

I think it would be a good idea to stay in a hotel and not with your sis in the same place. You won't get a moment of peace and you will need some privacy and a safe space to go back to decompress and relax. If they try to get you to change your mind, refuse to discuss it. With the sister, try to be polite but firm, as you've done so far, and if she has a tantrum just leave. Your motto should be 'I am here for dad, nothing else is important'. Repeat it as many times as needed. It is very powerful because it is the truth: you don't have time for power games or other nonsense. You are there for your dad.

I am sending you a big hug. Write to us to let us know how it is going.

[notrightinthehead]

Would it be possible for you to change your outlook and expectations? See the upcoming interaction as an opportunity to test your boundary setting skills? To practice medium chill and grey rock? To observe not absorb? To apply all the skills and tools you have learned?
I find that every time I notice that I did not take a bait or reacted in a self-protective, self-respecting way, I feel really proud and good about myself.

[Leonor]

I think this is interesting:

"As backstory, my parents are generally wonderful and nons.   My mom is enmeshed, ACOA and has poor boundaries.  Dad is super-smart and sweet but doesn't get "involved" in conflict.  Both parents are conflict-averse."

In other words, your parents are not so wonderful: mom is enmeshed with no boundaries, so she's violating everyone else's, and dad avoids any situation or emotion that makes him uncomfortable, even if it has to do with his wife and/or children.

See: narcissism, covert.

This is not to excuse or dismiss your adult sister's behavior towards you in any way whatsoever. But it seems to me that the two of you may have coped growing up by you taking care of your parents (by being "compliant"), while your sister expressed the anger and frustration of a child who, quite rightly, expects her parents to do the taking care.

And now that they are older, and your sister's personality may have crystallized into its own abusive dysfunction, you're still running around trying to be compliant and caretaking two adults who have abdicated any real responsibilities as parents, or even grownups.

Your sister was once a little girl, just like you. She was not born a bad seed to two pretty wonderful parents who have been inexplicably victimized by her ever since. And you did not arrive into this world on a cloud playing a harp, to the delight of all and the relief of your poor, distressed parents.

Your parents have set up this dynamic, as covert narcissists often do. They're splitting you and your sister into Glenda the Good and the Wicked of the West, and goading the two of you to battle it out over them, while they sigh and shrug.

You can't fix any of them. And it's doing you no good to try to do so. Sister has her own issues. She's got to work on those, or she'll keep baiting you into being her emotional punching bag, because it's easier to blame you than to face the truth that her parents really never could be bothered with her. It's not your fault. Protect yourself.

But protect yourself from mom and dad, too, because it is not your role to play Mary Poppins to your parents, and hear their sob stories about your sister, and pull you in with guilt and victimhood and how-could-she do-this-to-us-ness.

Mom doesn't have boundiaries, but you can. "Mom, I know you're upset with Sister, but that is something you have to work out with her, not me." Dad avoids conflict, but that doesn't mean you have to take it on for him: "Dad, I know this situation makes you uncomfortable, but I am not going to run interference for you."

It is hard, as the compliant child, the dutiful daughter, to give up the myth that your parents are kind, well-meaning people who just want to do right by their children. It's hard to give up believing that you are loved unconditionally by two grownups who prioritize and protect their children, and who are trustworthy, wise, and loving. It is hard to realize that you are "loved" for what you do for them and how you make them feel about themselves, as opposed to for who you are. It's heartbreaking. (Ask me how I know  )

It's ok to take a break for a while. You don't have to so anything dramatic or drastic - you don't have to do anything at all. Just breathe.

[LemonLime]

Trigger warning:  reference to teen sexual abuse

Thank you all for your replies. I so appreciate them.  Great insights from you all!

My dad died just before Thanksgiving.  It was a bit of a harrowing time with home hospice for a week and dealing with a very stressful situation with a sib with covert narc traits.   But NotRight, I did just what you suggested.  I changed my expectations and practiced new boundaries with sib. I really did a lot of gray rock and MC and wow!  It felt GOOOOOD!   She didn't like it, as expected, and I think I'm now discarded.  Not totally sure.

Walking on Broken Glass....yes! Sib totally escalated and made dad's situation all about her...about how she cares for him the MOST, understands him the MOST etc etc.  Several times I had to shoo her away from the bedside to let the poor guy get some peace.  She claims to love him so much but creates chaos (that he has always hated) right next to him when he is vulnerable. 

She felt her grip on me slipping, I think.  So she cornered me in the kitchen one night (my greatest fear and I really tried to avoid this but given the situation I was a bit stuck).  Everyone was exhausted by this time. Sib trashed my mom to me, telling me "mom is so mean and was mean to dad".  Sib told me that mom had told her that I didn't feel loved by sib as a child.  That I thought sib didn't like me (this is true and I did tell my mom I felt sib didn't like me).  I told sib it was no big deal, and that however she acted as a child was fine because she was a CHILD.   Sib went on to tell me that she had been abused sexually by a neighbor boy in her early teens.  And that that explained her terrible behavior as a teen in our household.

  I waited til she was done speaking (20 min) and gave her a hug and told her that nobody deserves to be abused and that I was so sorry to hear it.  Then I excused myself from the kitchen and went to bed.  It was midnight.

I'm so sorry to hear this news.  And also.....who does this with their dying father literally 20 feet away?
Wow.  Just wow. 

[notrightinthehead]

I am sorry for your loss.

Congratulations on handling your sister so well! What a disturbing revelation about the sexual abuse, let's hope that she will get help and begin the healing work instead of continuing to act out. How wonderful that you could hug her and show empathy and still stay with yourself and be aware of the bigger picture.

[walking on broken glass]

Hello LemonLime!

I am really sorry about your dad. I hope you are doing ok and have recovered a bit from the encounter with the sister.

It couldn't have been easy but you you handled her perfectly! Give yourself a pat on the back. She could probably see that you didn't fall for her tricks to turn the spotlight onto her and that you kept your polite distance, hence the confession about the abuse incident. Your balance between real empathy and safe distance was beautiful! I am really sorry this happened to her. It is awful and she doesn't seem to have ever dealt with those feelings. She has not matured emotionally - hence the really bad timing of when she let it out - and she is still trapped in her childhood prison, trying desperately to drag people into the cell with her. It is a shame but she is the only one that can help herself.

I hope things have now quietened down for you and you can get some peace.

[LemonLime]

Awww thank you guys! Thank you for your kind condolences.  You nailed it, and reading your replies makes me feel so seen.  As you so wisely say......I've achieved something here.  I'm so happy now to see that I was able to give empathy AND not get sucked into the story.  I did BOTH.  For once in my life with my sib, it was not one or the other.  It was BOTH.
Usually she tricks me into "forgetting" all the bad stuff she does by laying on the FOG.   It's a strategy of hers,and even though this forum is called "Out of the FOG", I don't think I've truly understood exactly how my sib has been using FOG all these years.  I'm seeing how transactional she is. 

This is how it goes, I think:   Sib acts out, says terrible things to people and generally has melt-downs where she spews venom, usually in a back-handed and sort of vague way, referring to things way in the past that may or may not have happened.  In short she puts herself as victim and all others as persecutors from the Karpman Drama Triangle.  Then she takes a nap or takes some time, feels embarrassment (?remorse not as likely) and then wants to get back into "the fold".   So she 'splains away the abusive behavior by yet MORE framing herself as victim.  She comes up with a story, true or untrue, about how she was mistreated by someone else.  She never takes accountability, never directly apologizes, and may never even connect the dots verbally about how the reason she melted down at others is because of how someone else did her wrong.  She seems to mostly leave it to the listener to connect those dots.  And then it is OVER (for her).   Anyone who dares mention the meltdown again is now persona-non-grata, an unforgiving person who just "can't let go of the past".

Thanks for letting me vent on this.  It stuff that is probably obvious to others here, but it's funny how when people close to me act stragely it's so confusing to me.  Hard for me to see the whole picture.

Yes, I'm guessing that when I gave her a hug and then took my marbles and went home, so to speak, she was quite frustrated.  That kind of guilt trip has always worked so well for her in the past....she must be confused as to why it isn't working now.

I'm proud.  I'm finally getting "over" her.  I've always wanted her to admire me and approve of me and to like me.  My big sister.....I've never stopped wanting her to see me as special.

It's a hard pill to swallow.  But as I've learned about romantic relationship breakups, the only way I will feel free is to stop wanting the relationship.  I'd say that is true for this relationship too.   The sooner I can get over that longing for approval, the sooner I can be myself in the relationship.   I had lost my empathy toward her, and that was sad for me.   I'm an empathic person, and I didn't like being "robotic" toward her.  So now I've found a new path forward...both empathy and detachment.

Thanks to you all.

[moglow]

This is how it goes, I think:   Sib acts out, says terrible things to people and generally has melt-downs where she spews venom, usually in a back-handed and sort of vague way, referring to things way in the past that may or may not have happened.  In short she puts herself as victim and all others as persecutors from the Karpman Drama Triangle.  Then she takes a nap or takes some time, feels embarrassment (?remorse not as likely) and then wants to get back into "the fold".   So she 'splains away the abusive behavior by yet MORE framing herself as victim.  She comes up with a story, true or untrue, about how she was mistreated by someone else.  She never takes accountability, never directly apologizes, and may never even connect the dots verbally about how the reason she melted down at others is because of how someone else did her wrong.  She seems to mostly leave it to the listener to connect those dots.  And then it is OVER (for her).   Anyone who dares mention the meltdown again is now persona-non-grata, an unforgiving person who just "can't let go of the past".

@LemonLime this exactly how it plays out with my mother, has as far back as I can remember. Her meltdowns are driven by some inner something where she looks for a problem and a reason to be mad until she finds [or invents] one. Then she spews it all over her chosen victim of the moment. Some of these issues are truly farfetched and dredged from some far distant vagueness that may or may not have actually happened, where she suddenly demands an explanation. In her mind it's real and she's LIVID about it. When it's eventually over for her it must be for everyone or there's hell to pay - she who must not be questioned picks up weeks or even months later as if all is right with the world, with no regard or apology for how she treated others.

It's been one after another after another all our lives. Now she has a much smaller circle and fewer outlets, mainly because those who are still living she's either driven off entirely or we're down to little more than birthday and holiday greetings.

the only way I will feel free is to stop wanting the relationship.  I'd say that is true for this relationship too.   The sooner I can get over that longing for approval, the sooner I can be myself in the relationship.   I had lost my empathy toward her, and that was sad for me.   I'm an empathic person, and I didn't like being "robotic" toward her.  So now I've found a new path forward...both empathy and detachment.

Same, friend. I wanted until I couldn't any longer. Glad you've found your empathy too!

[walking on broken glass]

Yes, the whole cycle sounds very familiar! They can't even handle a tiny morsel of responsibility. It is always someone else's fault. What you did, LemonLime, setting boundaries, is the only solution. Of course when, because of your family situation, you have internalized the message that boundaries are bad, it becomes really difficult to put them in place. I am still learning, I think. But your behaviour was exemplary!
I also agree that there is a fine balance between empathy and detachment. I also tend to lean towards one or the other more, depending on the situation. If I am too detached, I feel bad about not being empathetic enough; if too empathetic, my anger for being taken advantaged grows. It is a tough one!

[bloomie]

LemonLime - I am so sorry for the loss of your dear father. Always a painful and difficult journey, but how much more so when it brings us into close, intimate physical contact with a sibling who is unsafe.

Wow! Did you ever handle the time spent at the bedside and then in the kitchen blindsided by your sister's revelation of her traumatic experience like a champ! To realize that we have matured and developed beyond our family of origin role and the expectation that we will knee jerk respond to the very compelling disclosure like this is worth recognition!

To also recognize that we traveled through an intense and complex experience alongside of a disordered, attention seeking, manipulative, tone deaf sibling and stayed true to ourselves and our values and boundaries is also a milestone!!

Here's the thing though... it takes a toll. A huge toll. Not only are your grieving the loss of your dad and the pain this brings into your family's life, you are facing the unvarnished truth of the broken relationship between you and your sister. That's a lot and my hope for you is that you are getting the support and rest and recovery time you need as you go forward.

In my own journey with similarities, I wrongly thought I had to be shut down emotionally to avoid an emotional manipulator who was seeking to find a way to continue their abusive and toxic behaviors toward me and my family. That was completely off brand for me  and finding the balance between empathy and disengagement, as you point out here, is key.

There are those who are part of our life package for at least as long as our parents are alive. Knowing that we can limit our exposure only so much when our parents face grave illness and end of life it is reassuring to know we have done the hard work to be able to handle what we need to and then remove ourselves as soon as we are able.

Thanks for sharing how you have navigated this. You are an inspiration!

[LemonLime]

Wow, you all are truly amazing supports for me.  You truly truly "get it".   I can't begin to express how touched I am by your kind and wise words.  And your acknowledgment of my growth and new boundaries.  I feel sort of like a kid who finally learned to ride a bike.....just so proud of myself for my achievement of growing in my emotional maturity (against all odds).  You're right....my family will never see it, but I do and you all do.  And that's enough.

Bloomie, you're right that this has taken an emotional toll.  I've been exhausted for 2 months since my father died.  I'm giving myself lots of time to be tired and I'm putting myself first.  Even if lots of people probably think I should be "over it" now, I'm taking the time I need.  Most people don't understand how a dysfunctional sibling situation can take its toll, but you all do.   Boundaries may be invisible, but boy do they take work to build.

We're part of strange club, aren't we?  Thank goodness we're here together.