Folie à deux + PD

[FugitiveDaughter]

I'm trying to maintain my own sanity while facing the difficult issue of having a serious mental meltdown in the immediate family. Consequently, I'm even getting along fairly ok with my NPD mom (she is what she is but at least not malignant towards me at the moment so we're in polite terms) because this situation is causing distress to her as well. I have a sibling who has been odd their entire life. I have said it to those I trust several times, that I've tried to get to know my sibling for decades without success. There's always been an invisible barrier of something between us. I've always felt my sibling was strangely emotionless (even if at times displays fake, exaggerated emotions), cold and impossible to read. Very secretive as a person and very insecure. I strongly suspect I was pushed away from their life and kept away from their children because I know too much. I might break the carefully crafted image and persona my sibling has worked so hard to build. There's definitely some sort of NPD involved here as my sibling very much wants the adulation and attention of a crowd and is incapable of handling critique to the point they will avoid any situation where their views might be challenged. My sibling never, ever contacts me unless they need something. There is no genuine interest in simply being a friend which to me is something ideally should be the case between siblings.

In any case, things are escalating and not only is my sibling getting more and more incoherent, secretive and quite frankly appearing to be psychotic but so is my sibling's spouse. It even goes beyond this as there are other members of my sibling's extended in-law-family who are sharing in this. It started years ago with what I suspect was some sort of a burnout and mental breakdown. My sibling either resigned or was sacked from their job (never really found out which) and then it became obvious my sibling was having some strange beliefs and wanted to change their entire life by becoming some sort of  an alternative healing guru or other. Their spouse went along with this. I fear for the children because I don't know if they go along with this or if they are just the unwilling victims who have to play along. Anyway, now we're at a point where my sibling's entire extended family (we're not talking about my side of the family but in-laws) are not only very active anti-vaxxers but they also participate in political demonstrations and other activism. They have banned the children from getting vaccinations even though they are teens and could legally perhaps decide themselves. They aggressively refuse to follow any guidelines or rules to do with the pandemic and have even occasionally revealed they do not believe the whole disease is nothing but a mass hallucination and a conspiracy to put them in camps. It has gotten exponentially worse since the vaccine passports came to be. They will have none of it.

I fear where  this will lead. Might they harm themselves or the children if they get agitated because of some news article they see (they don't follow "mainstream news" and get their info from wherever, very susceptible to any propaganda by any source as long as it backs up their beliefs)? They seem to genuinely believe they will be hunted down and that there's basically armageddon coming. They have now isolated themselves from the outside world. They do go out (despite the current situation) but only socialize with likeminded people, have effectively stopped talking to the rest of us because we are "enemies" (they don't say this out loud but it is clear) and there are signs their next move will be other obedience in front of the law. I don't know where this will go but I am suffering from anxiety and depression at times because there is nothing I can do to help and I worry for the kids. It has even gone to a point now that my sibling basically humiliated themselves publicly by airing some opinions that made them not only a laughing stock but also very likely caused them to receive some really acidic feedback. Let's just say the views expressed were quite frankly despicable.

Is there anything I can do? I fear some of my friends and relatives are now also avoiding me because they perhaps feel I think alike my sibling (I haven't publicly stated anything because I don't want to get involved, I just stay away from commenting etc.).  I also do not get involved because nothing I say would ever change their minds the state they are in. They are unable and unwilling to exercise any source criticism. I am scared of the consequences to their family and also if they will stay healthy.

I don't know if it's ok to write about this since everywhere it's so polarized these days. But I hope you understand why I worry. Is it Folie à deux or even Folie en famille? Should I just step away and stop attempting to communicate? It is so hard when these people are my family members and I care about them, whether I should or not.

[serenitycalm]

I've been in similar circumstances. And I now have a sister who has fallen prey to a "fortunetelling" type con artist.

I also was a member of a destructive group myself in the past.

I recommend that we always always take care of ourselves first. This can include making sure we have healthy distractions and interests.

We don't need to try to persuade them of anything. We won't be able to change their minds. We can instead be a good role model by taking care of ourselves. We can have basic information available in case they ever ask for help, but we don't need to try to proactively change them (we actually can't change them).

FugitiveDaughter, if I was in your situation I would not even be able to "help' NPD mom with this. For me personally, this would simply triangulate matters and increase the drama.

I would have to firmly make myself stop tracking what the disordered people are doing and turn instead to my own well being. I would make my project that of improving my own life.

You can have handy a list of relevant crisis hot line numbers, child protective services, etc for just in case. That may be all you can do. Let authorities know if what you hear rises to that level of concern. But don't feel like you have to monitor.

For me, I have anxiety challenges. I can get too focused on things outside my control, to my own detriment.

The cult expert Rick Ross and his web site Cult Education Institute may be helpful to look over. His "Getting Help" section specifically addresses concerned family and friends.

Here on Out of the FOG, the Toolbox is also very helpful.

[FugitiveDaughter]

serenitycalm, you are absolutely right and I thank you for your insight. After a few days of calm contemplation, I've come to the conclusion the less I involve myself in the dealings of these two people (mom and sibling), the better. Their game of making me question every action, word, nuance, possible hint of something has almost made me insane during my whole life and it has caused me difficulties in dealing with normal people. I can't live like that. I refuse to ruin my days by thinking about possibly evil jabs thrown at me. I have let them be amongst themselves and to me it's easy to do since I am geographically a long way from them (what a relief!).

Today I see my sibling is trying to stir again and is craving so hard for validation and adulation but I will pay no attention to it and focus on my own life. I am taking distance between me and NPD mom too because I have to remember I cannot trust her. I have a husband who reminds me regularly about this. There has to be some way I can invite good people into my life and they don't have to be blood family. My only fear is that I will once again attract NPD people because it has happened before. I've become a bit of a recluse at times because I don't trust people.

I have anxiety issues as well. It has escalated to a point where certain triggers send me into a full panic attack so I try my best to avoid these triggers and focus on things that are here and now. I will once again go and check the tool box. Isn't it terrible how all these people surrounding us have made our lives into a life-long project of slow healing! Or healing is at least what we'd all prefer. It is just so incredibly difficult, made doubly as bad by the fear we've caught fleas. Again, I really appreciate your reply. It is good to hear I'm not the only one struggling with these people and my own wellbeing. Of course I wish none of us were but there it is.

[happygoat]

Welcome and I understand. I am so grateful to be where I am emotionally.  How do you know all these things about your sister since your relationship is so bad and she is so distant?  I have no relationship with my Mom or sisters. We are all damaged and I can't find a reason to trust any of them. The worst things I have ever heard about any one of them is from another one of them. Not safe for me and thank God I deal with the what more than the why. Learning to understand and forgive while the abuse is ongoing is not impossible, just REALLY HARD.  Now I understand that the triangulation is so ingrained it just happens. I am not their diagnostician, or healer. My number one focus is to maintain healthy boundaries in my life and not allow behavior or treatment towards me that I find unacceptable. 

[FugitiveDaughter]

How do I know all these things? Because even if my sibling doesn't talk to me very openly about all this, there are times when they would tell me things. And then there are other relatives who tell me what is happening or what they've been told. You can pretty much guess that my mom who built this whole triangle is the one who tells me things if I don't hear it elsewhere. My sibling also works hard to be remarkable in some way in other words they are pushing themselves to be a celebrity of sorts. This means interviews, social media presence etc. so I know quite a lot even if I don't want to.

I feel sad that my sibling cannot simply feel happy as they are. They claim to be but I can see how this is all about wanting adulation and to be exceptional in some way. I don't know where it stems from but I could tell them it's not something to aspire to. I have received my fair share of hatred, envy and put downs for being a gifted child (although my area of talent wasn't appreciated as much as other areas), I was always pretty much told I should just settle for less because my sibling was the one who was the smart, talented one and going places. In the last few years my father was alive, he told me privately they had been wrong not to see me for what I was and that they should have been more supportive. It's sad to see the way my sibling is because I can see what's wrong and if my sibling didn't clearly have PD and other issues, I might be able to help them somehow but there is nothing I can do.

At the moment we're not in speaking terms. After I said some truths, and I didn't really go that far because I don't dare, I have been shut out and my sibling does not talk to me. Maybe it's not so much what I said, just that they want to show me my place. I don't care but it annoys me that any attempt at talking to the kids about anything is met with some sort of a wall. I think the kids have been told not to converse much with me. And all I wanted to know is how they are and really did not want to talk about their parent at all.

Healthy boundaries and distance, I know they are needed and must be maintained. It's just so hard at times when you don't have that many people in this world. I know I'm weak to keep any sort of contact. I'm just not ready to be the one without a family at all. The people that are left of my childhood family are ones that I probably shouldn't be in contact with and the ones that actually were a healthy influence have long since passed away. I know my sibling will probably try to creep back if and when they need something from me. How do you grow an armour around you to be tough in situations like that?