Feeling stuck

[5isRed]

Hello all,

(updated to put in a proper U/N) I have been reading here for the past couple of years, but never posted. I'm still not clear on what I'm looking for from the group, since I know I can only control myself and my own reactions, and I've been gray rock/low contact for about 4 years now. Similar to many of you who have that hyper-developed sense of responsibility for our NP, I struggle with feelings of guilt and obligation when the demands for our time or attention pick up. I would love the magic pill that makes those feelings disappear.

I think the reason I've finally decided to post here is because I have an overwhelming desire to go NC with un-dx'd NM. (not sure how this works- I'm not qualified to label her as narcissistic, and she's never seen a therapist, but my own therapist feels that it sounds accurate) My children are now old enough (all teens) to recognize that their GM is very negative, dismissive, a master of revisionist history, and disinterested in anything about them. The 2 older kids have also been subjected to her trash-talking me, in hopes of getting information out of them, and finding an ally. None of them want a relationship with her, and when they have defended me to her, have ended up on the receiving end of her nastiness, sealing that decision. My husband is very supportive of me, and while he is polite to her when she's been around and doesn't give her any fuel, he is now fed up with the aftermath of seeing her, knowing what it does to me- I'm often quiet and withdrawn for a day or two, trying to process the nonsense and recover myself.

I have no ties to her other than biological at this point- she doesn't rely on me for anything, my family doesn't rely on her for anything, but she does live nearby- about 10 mins away. Yesterday, for the first time in several months, she showed up at my door unexpected. I was working, so my older daughter fielded the visit. It was brief, but hostile, and I feel horrible that my child had to be involved. It was as expected "your mother.... never answers my calls or texts...so I guess it's come to this...." and she thrust a bag containing 2 cards at my daughter: for my husband's birthday and our anniversary last month. (I watched the replay on my Ring camera) Last night I get the phone call and voicemail, then text message demanding that I call her. I did respond to the text stating that I was not available to talk and didn't offer another time, but she immediately responded with: "tomorrow night then". I feel backed into a corner, like I need to respond with something, or she'll keep at it. I know better than to address anything regarding why I am LC and GR, but I don't know how to end this. I want peace, and there is no way it can include her.

Any experience or ideas are appreciated.

[moglow]

"Welcome" to our little corner of the asylum - I hate you're in this position but very glad to be here to reach back to you. You'll find plenty of kindred souls here, believe me.

I feel your post on so many levels - the lack of involvement or even interest is painfully familiar, all while mommie dearest [referenced as "md" in most of my posts] proclaims no one ever calls or visits her. It truly doesn't occur to her that her complete lack of interest in any of her family combined with the sheer nastiness and spite she spews over all and sundry, have backed her into that corner of her own making.

Having video/audio of your mother in action may actually be somewhat helpful, if nothing more than reinforcement in the future. For years I kept a selection of md's voicemail messages, would cycle through them when I had doubts or was second guessing myself. Once after her complaining that I never called and demanding to know why, I parroted back to her a comment she'd made about me being only interested in my thoughts and my feelings "and all that crap." She was LIVID that I quoted her, claimed that in order for her to believe that she'd said what I said she had, she needed PROOF. All righty then - I forwarded that very voicemail right back to her and poured myself a drink. Shortly after she called: That's not what she meant. I took it wrong. Me: But that's the message you left, those were your words in your voice. That's what you said to me, basically that I was crap. Her: You know that's not what I meant. Me: No, I don't know that. I know what you said and how you said it - cold, spiteful and ugly, and you dug down from there. Her: [excuse excuse, blamed me for her words, I blew it out of proportion etc.] Me: That was your message and the only person responsible for it is YOU. THIS is why we don't talk.

That exchange has stuck with me. It didn't and still doesn't occur to her that her treatment of me [all of her children actually] all my life was just so far out of line. Out of obligation to "mother" I hung in there for several more rounds, but something shifted pretty hard from there forward. I realized that she'd shown me who she was, repeatedly, and I never truly saw it. We rarely speak at all now, things have seriously deteriorated the past few years and I don't have any plans to contact or see her. There was nothing positive and I got tired of trying to reach her on any level.

I tell you all that to say simply - you know why you are where you are. I doubt seriously this is a one-time over emotional event or the whim of a moment. My guess is you can tell her until you're blue in the face and she's still not going to hear what she doesn't want to hear. You could if you choose, send her a short simple message that you were working when she stopped by but were able to see video later of the exchange at the door. Maybe even tell her that you won't be calling or messaging further and visits aren't welcome. You want peace in your life and wish her the same.

What she does with that is up to her, but know also - you don't have to answer the door to her or anyone else. Ever. Having the title of "mother" doesn't permit her 24/7 entry into your life. You can quietly block her phone number, email, social media or whatever. Shut it down to whatever level you are comfortable and continue on. I don't like to be all hard hearted Hannah about it, but we all have limits. Remember, you're an adult just like she is. You get to make your own choices here, and that doesn't require letting people in who abuse you.

Stick around - we'll be here.

[SunnyMeadow]

Hi 5isRed, I'm sorry you have to be here too. Moglow wrote very wise words especially the "you're an adult just like she is". I was stuck in daughter mode for a long time. I guess I didn't realize I was also a mother and wife. I always jumped back into the good little girl thing when I was around her.

But as adults, we get to decide who makes our lives better, who doesn't and plan accordingly. It's a tough road but one you get to make and enforce. I wish I would've known and put this into action decades before I got to this forum. Keep posting and reading here.

[5isRed]

Thank you, Moglow and SunnyMeadow. I appreciate your words and support.

Moglow- you sure nailed it. I also have kept years-old voicemails and emails and texts from her as evidence of her behavior, for when I need the reminder that she has shown me who she is, and I need to believe her. And no, this is definitely not a one-time thing that has pushed me to this point. I "discovered" that she is a narcissist over 4 years ago after a particularly nasty phone call where I refused to acquiesce to her demands or manipulate me into doing her dirty work. The sad thing is that I was 44 yrs old at that time and had lived most of those years perpetually frustrated and confused by behaviors that I knew were bizarre and erratic and very much unlike those I saw in the mothers of friends. I don't actually know what I even typed into a search field that night that landed me on the concepts of narcissism and gas-lighting, but once I started reading.... holy shirtballs, it was a like a train light in my face that I couldn't turn off. The stories I began reading from people with similar family members were like reading excerpts from my own life. It left me so shaken and shocked that I actually was NOT crazy, or making stuff up, or taking things the wrong way (her favorite line) or exaggerating. In some moments, I even felt ashamed, as someone who is fairly well-educated with several degrees, worked in global organizations, and seen my share of nasty divorces between friends- how in the world was I not aware of these concepts and how they applied to my life??? So many things were clicking into place in those first few months, and I was so overwhelmed by the realizations, that I went into therapy (again) to unpack it all with an expert. Therapist was very helpful, provided me with good resources and invited in my husband to share his observations and help validate the things I struggled with for so long. Not that I needed my husband to validate anything, but I still frequently ask him or my kids- "did I hear that right? did she just say/text what I think she did? did I misunderstand it?" because sometimes it's so outlandish I really do wonder if I'm dreaming it.

Sadly, I don't have much left of my original nuclear family, which has made it hard for me to go NC with her. My Dad passed away almost 2 years ago, and while he was far from perfect (nor am I), we had made our reconciliations 10 years prior to his passing and had enjoyed a very satisfying and nurturing relationship over those years. He had divorced from NM 10 years prior to his passing, and I am so grateful that he was able to live out those last years in relative peace and happiness. NM has used the divorce (among other things) as her crutch and license to behave however she wanted, and Dad warned me many times to be careful of her games. Several times in his last few years, he would sadly hold my hand and tell me how sorry he was to leave me to deal with her and wished he could have done things differently or "fixed" her. I'm now left with a younger brother, the GC of course, who benefits from her PD, so he's not inclined to help me in dealing with her.

Typing this out is gutting...seeing how dysfunctional and sad this family is, but also how much more I could type to fill in even more relevant details. It is so convoluted and riddled with secrets and unbelievable history, that I have to delete stuff because it's too hard to see in writing. Suffice to say, I can't do this anymore and need to choose happiness and peace for what remains of my life. More than half of it is over, and with my kids pointing out the dysfunction, I have to end the cycle of chaos. My challenge is: how to end it. For my own physical and mental safety, I cannot see her in person. She has been violent in the past, and even if she doesn't get physically abusive, the verbal abuse in person is more than I can stand. Phone calls are also pointless, she just yells over me. My integrity is pushing me to write a handwritten note and mail it, as an email feels cheap to me. Still, a part of me feels like a letter is cowardly...though that may just be NM talking in my head. And what to even write.... The whole thing feels enormous, but I also don't want this hanging over my head any longer.

[moglow]

Any and all of what you just shared - YES! If you can stomach it, you might want to read Understanding the Borderline Mother. While yours sounds primarily narcissistic, she may have a little something else along with it. I honestly thought mine had multiple personalities until a therapist told me about BPD - most of that fit, but there were plenty of other behaviors that led me to believe she's borderline and narcissistic with some histrionic thrown in for giggles. I know, NOT funny but gallows humor serves me well as a coping mechanism at times. But reading UTMB, hilighter in hand, I cried. So many of the stories and feelings were mine. As you said, I was shaken, shocked, ashamed even. Somehow from that discovery that I wasn't alone, I found support instead of turning it all on myself.

After -lets just say several- years of going over and over all this, sharing my experiences and countless incidents with her, counseling, lots of tears and cussing and whisky, I boiled it all down into one typed half-sheet, 1.5 space note. I accepted full responsibility for my part in our "conversations", apologized for things I said in retaliation that I regretted, told her that through it all I'd very much hoped we'd find some common ground. I admitted I was wrong in pushing for "more" from her and that I wouldn't inflict myself or my feelings on her again going forward. I ended with telling her that the ugliness between us was over, then stuck it in a small note card and mailed it off.

I think we've spoken twice since [her birthday and mothers day when I called her] and she's not said a word about my note, not acknowledged it in any way. She barely acknowledged me as we were on each of those calls under three minutes, but that had long since become her norm anyway. I don't have any plans to call or contact her again. I don't say never, but it's nowhere on my radar. The damage done is completely unacknowledged by her. I just should have paid attention to that long ago.

In writing the note that way, it gave me time to write, edit then edit some more. I didn't point fingers or cast blame, just very simply explained myself without giving her ammunition for another round. I felt peace after that, left her to do whatever she's going to do. It might really help you put it down.