Oh no this is going to change everything! Bad news today..,..

[p123]

Remember I mentoned Dad cousin. 3 years younger - Dad treats him like his personal slave? Dropped dead suddenly yesterday.

He used to the worlld worse FM to me until Dad turned his attention to him. Then if was full force. Want a lift? Graham will take me. Want to get someone to push me around town on my wheelchair? Graham dont mnd. Graham actually called me once, told me he'd had enough, it was making him ill and Dad had had to stop. I spoke to Dad - did he stop NOPE.

So hes gone now. I know whats coming next - So whos going to do xyz now? Can  guarantee Dad is going to struggle massively now his main provider is gone. Can guarantee Dad is expecting SOMEONE to step up to the task now. Living 30 mins  drive away, got my own kids, there is no way its going to be me.

Fake hospital visits- he used to get Graham to pick him up, drive him to hospital and wait 5/6 hours to be seen. Thats going to stress him now.

Wish me luck I'm going to need it!

[FromTheSwamp]

Oh no!  You're right, your dad is going to have a complete meltdown.  I do wish you luck and extra strength holding your boundaries.

[p123]

Yep - Graham was the one guy who pretty much Dad coerced into doing everything.

I know whats going to happen. Dad will have another one of his " you need to step up to the mark now" chats. Probably have had about 10 of these over the years. Will end up in me saying no, he'll refuse to spend any money to get anything sorted and, then the last comment will be "you're family need to understand that I need your help", and "you need to speak to your employer so they give you time off" (Im a self employed consultant which I've told him 10000x. No work no pay. And my CLIENTS who on the whole are nice I can't expect paid time off from them.

The family thing annoys me the most. He knows the problems I've had - its not plain sailing with families and kids. Yeh he always seems to think hes the most important.

To be honest, he could do with going into a home but hes got loads of savings. Anyone in the UK know who it works? Trouble is any hint of spending money and he'll revert to staying where he is and expecting everyone to run around for free. (Ive realised he values my time at about £0.50 an hours - if it saves him money he doesnt care)

Wish me luck! Im going to see him tonight..... gonna time how long his sadness for the loss of his cousin turns into "what about me?" 10 minutes I reckon.

[NarcKiddo]

Eek. I don't envy you that situation. I seem to recall you telling us about Graham ringing you up.

I know a bit about the care home system but you/your dad will need to do your own research as I am not sure how accurate the following info is.

What happens with the home is that they take into account the value of your savings and your house, if you own it. If it is above a certain amount (£25k-ish?) you are self-funding and have to pay the full cost of your care fees. You might be able to get benefits like attendance allowance (they may call it something else these days) which would obviously help - but you are entitled to that whether or not you are in a home so he may be getting it already. Also if there is an actual health need that requires him to be in a home then the NHS has to contribute but I gather that is a hellishly complicated thing to get to the bottom of. Once you get to the @25k or whatever it is then I think the local authority pays part of the care fees until you get down to something like £18k. You are allowed to keep the whole of that and the local authority picks up the care fee. At that point they take away your pension and all other sources of income and you have a weekly allowance for bits and bobs.

Some if this info might not be quite right as my main familiarity is with MIL and she is in a care home in Scotland where the system is a bit different. But pretty similar.

Given the sound of your dad's health now there is probably no point in him giving away his money to you and your brother so he qualifies for free care. If you do that and then have to go into care soon after (there is no official cut-off date that I know of, each local authority has its own criteria and it could be months or even a number of years) then the local authority pretends you still have the money you gave away and will not pay for the home. This is obviously a total nightmare if the person you gave the money to has spent it!

When MIL went into her care home she chose quite a posh one. She has been in there for a long time and the home assured us that when she ran out of money the local authority would agree to pay for her to stay there. We are about to put this to the test! But I am not sure this is the case everywhere. I think local authorities are quite within their rights to turf people out of expensive homes and put them in cheaper ones. Again, this is something to beware of and research.

Finally, I am sorry for your loss.

[p123]

NK - do they directly take into the account the value of the home also? He owns 40% of his home under a share ownersnhip thing but thats going to be £50K easily. And his savings are £40K.

I've told him for 25 years that saving a bad idea. But hes, to be honest, really thick, and has preferred to stick his head in the sand and ignore it all and likes to have his "savings" he can look at the statements lovingly (as you can tell I think this is the stupidest idea ever!)

Yeh know its probably too late to give too much away - I told him this years ago too. But hes an adult and I cant force him - its going to really upset him when he sees his savings getting eaten away but then what can I do now?

Im gonna ask now but I guess its expensive - costs for a care home? Dad thinks £100 is a LOT of money BTW.

I'm going to have a nightmare aren't I?

To be honest, hes better in a home. Not so much physically - he can still sort of get around. Mentally hes just convinved he can't cope which is why hes like he is. Won't listen to anything I say - and to be honest just sits there and worries and worries about nothing. (see my post about the amazon parcel)/ He would LOVE just sitting there and having all these nice nurses look after him.

[lkdrymom]

You just know he will make this all about him.  First time he says something jump straight to him needing to go into assisted living now that his 'helper' is gone.  That needs to be your go to answer to everything. Every conversation you have with him now requires you to use that word in every sentence.

[square]

Here are some thoughts to counter Dad's programming, whether you say them aloud or just secure your position in your head.

It's time to step up to the mark.
That's right, Dad, it's time. There are some hard decisions you've been putting off. You'll need to make your plans now.

Your family will just need to understand
You need to understand, Dad. I've got a responsibility to my family. Your lack of planning does not affect my responsibility to my family.

You need to tell your employer
Not taking career advice from you of all people.

I'm your father
And I'm your son. I'd never ask what you're asking from you, or my own son, or anyone. I'd be ashamed.

[NarcKiddo]

p123 - yes, they do take into account the value of the home. But only the value of what belongs to him.

My MIL's care home costs - are you sitting down? Just under £1,000 per week. Bear in mind she is in Scotland. It is a nice care home (not a nursing home, they cost even more) and I suspect it would cost quite a bit more in a different location.

MIL could sort of cope on her own when she went into the home. But all the family are the other end of the country or overseas. She began to lose confidence and kept having falls. She knew one of the admin staff in that care home and knew it to be nice. However, if at that stage she had not had enough money to pay for her care then the local authority would have assessed her needs right from the start. She would not have had a choice of home and they would have decided whether she even qualified for a home or whether they were going to send domestic help round to her house. MIL had to have a few social services assessments over the years to make sure they would agree she was needy enough to qualify for care home fees being paid when she ran out of money. They have finally agreed so now we just wait for the money to dwindle down. But goodness knows what they thought would happen if they decided she was not eligible for funding. Because by then she had sold her house to pay for the home, so she had no house to which they could send her if they did not want to pay for the care home. 

[wisingup]

Square - really excellent post!

[p123]

Here are some thoughts to counter Dad's programming, whether you say them aloud or just secure your position in your head.

It's time to step up to the mark.
That's right, Dad, it's time. There are some hard decisions you've been putting off. You'll need to make your plans now.

Your family will just need to understand
You need to understand, Dad. I've got a responsibility to my family. Your lack of planning does not affect my responsibility to my family.

You need to tell your employer
Not taking career advice from you of all people.

I'm your father
And I'm your son. I'd never ask what you're asking from you, or my own son, or anyone. I'd be ashamed.

Haha probably had these exact discussions 20 times. Still doesnt stop him coming back a few months later for a different answer!

[p123]

p123 - yes, they do take into account the value of the home. But only the value of what belongs to him.

My MIL's care home costs - are you sitting down? Just under £1,000 per week. Bear in mind she is in Scotland. It is a nice care home (not a nursing home, they cost even more) and I suspect it would cost quite a bit more in a different location.

MIL could sort of cope on her own when she went into the home. But all the family are the other end of the country or overseas. She began to lose confidence and kept having falls. She knew one of the admin staff in that care home and knew it to be nice. However, if at that stage she had not had enough money to pay for her care then the local authority would have assessed her needs right from the start. She would not have had a choice of home and they would have decided whether she even qualified for a home or whether they were going to send domestic help round to her house. MIL had to have a few social services assessments over the years to make sure they would agree she was needy enough to qualify for care home fees being paid when she ran out of money. They have finally agreed so now we just wait for the money to dwindle down. But goodness knows what they thought would happen if they decided she was not eligible for funding. Because by then she had sold her house to pay for the home, so she had no house to which they could send her if they did not want to pay for the care home. 

Yes a quick google - it aint cheap. Im in wales so probably a little cheaper like scotland.

[p123]

Well I went to see him last night. I tried to prepare myself but I've come away from there really mad.

I was right - 10 mins about how sad he was then, I knew it, what about me?
Hes lost his main supply now.

I did tell him hes now going to have to use his money whether he likes it or not. I;m not in a position to fill the gap so don't even ask. Not happy is the understatement.
Then I get oh woe is me how am I going to cope all on my own? Not falling for that. I reminded him he can dress himself, use the toilet, wash, cook, etc etc there are some people bedridden so lay off it a bit.

What made me mad though was "Well you'll have to phone me more now?". Umm no. He already says at least once a week how my brother phones him every day. Its not happening - mentally I can't cope with listening his rubbish every day. Thats part of the problem - he wants a relationship with me and I dont want it.
Made it worse with "well I'll be stuck in now, you'll have to visit me at weekends and take me out" and then "its ok you can bring daughter". Yep. So back to how it was before then - she sits in the car, we do what you want, and she doesnt get a look in and has to sit there bored. Not happening.

He asked me about the funeral then. How he really needed me to go with him. To be honest, I was going to go. Its 30 mins drive for me (prob 45 by the time I pick dad up) but my current client are pretty good. So I told him probably and I get the full on "can you make an effort?" (I hate that!). So I ask where brother is that day "Oh hes starting a new job in a new factory this week so can't get time off".

Once again, my brother job is important because its a manual job - I MUST be ok to take a few hours off because Im at home anyway. Jeez......

This is not going to end well....

[NarcKiddo]

"he wants a relationship with me"

Really? It seems to me that he wants someone to talk at and to be at his beck and call. It's easy for a parent to dress this up as wanting a relationship and easy for us to fall into the trap of believing it because, deep down, we probably want to believe it.

I know it is really annoying when they (wilfully?) won't understand things we tell them about our lives and jobs but you could turn the job thing to your advantage, I reckon. Just tell him you have a big new client but refer to the client as a boss. Hey presto. You have a boss who can now refuse you time off in the way your brother's new factory foreman can refuse him time off. Your conscience might not allow you to tell fibs such as this but I would be doing this sort of thing by now given the pressures he puts you under.

[Liketheducks]

P123, I'm so sorry you're going through this.   Hold those boundaries firm.

[square]

"Can you make an effort?"

[p123]

"he wants a relationship with me"

Really? It seems to me that he wants someone to talk at and to be at his beck and call. It's easy for a parent to dress this up as wanting a relationship and easy for us to fall into the trap of believing it because, deep down, we probably want to believe it.

I know it is really annoying when they (wilfully?) won't understand things we tell them about our lives and jobs but you could turn the job thing to your advantage, I reckon. Just tell him you have a big new client but refer to the client as a boss. Hey presto. You have a boss who can now refuse you time off in the way your brother's new factory foreman can refuse him time off. Your conscience might not allow you to tell fibs such as this but I would be doing this sort of thing by now given the pressures he puts you under.

Yeh he wants me to be the "phone every day", "take him out every weekend", "Im so close to my Dad I'd do anything" sort of thing. Nah what he wants is slave to do his bidding.

The job thing has ALWAYS been nuts. Because he worked in a factory all his life he thinks because I do office work I must just sit there all day.

As soon as brother even hints that he can't do something because of work Dad seems to go "ooooh got to be careful, can't upset your boss". With me, its "can't you explain to your boss they'll understand".

Yeh perhaps I'll give up and call it boss. Even then I'd bet he says thinks like "cant someone else in the office do it".

[Boat Babe]

Hey P123. Firstly I'm very sorry for you loss and I hope you can separate your grief for your cousin from your concern about your dad. I suggest you contact Age Concern or similar as they will have clear information re care and cost etc. Knowledge is always better than the opposite.

Your dad is gonna throw all his toys out of the pram. All of them. As people have said; boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.  It's all you can do. Write down, for yourself, what you will and will not do. Also write down what you KNOW the old boy is gonna say (cos nothing as predictable as a PD) and what you will say when he does. Practice it so he doesn't catch you off guard. And lastly, I sense a real lingering sense of guilt and obligation in your good self. This is perhaps the time to work on this or he will consume your headspace. You can't afford that.  Good luck mate.

[p123]

Hey P123. Firstly I'm very sorry for you loss and I hope you can separate your grief for your cousin from your concern about your dad. I suggest you contact Age Concern or similar as they will have clear information re care and cost etc. Knowledge is always better than the opposite.

Your dad is gonna throw all his toys out of the pram. All of them. As people have said; boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.  It's all you can do. Write down, for yourself, what you will and will not do. Also write down what you KNOW the old boy is gonna say (cos nothing as predictable as a PD) and what you will say when he does. Practice it so he doesn't catch you off guard. And lastly, I sense a real lingering sense of guilt and obligation in your good self. This is perhaps the time to work on this or he will consume your headspace. You can't afford that.  Good luck mate.

Thanks BB some very good ideas here....

Yeh very predictable to be honest. I almost know before he says it.

Its going to be a fight. Part of the problem is he doesnt see it as me having any sort of opinion or say in the matter. In his head, he needs this so I've got to do it and everything and everyone else has to make way.

I don't how many times I've told him as well that him saying "Make a big effort please" to do this that or the other is VERY VERY rude indeed. Its like saying I don't make any effort at all. If he wants to see NO effort then hes in for a shock.

[Call Me Cordelia]

It's only a fight if you're engaged in it, p. He can beat the air and tantrum alone all he wants.

[p123]

"Can you make an effort?"

EXACTLY - when I've said Dad thats a really rude thing to say because you're telling me I'm not making enough effort, his answer is always Oh I don't mean it like that I know you do lots for me, just try hard this time.

Thing is  he knows my situation. Last few years have been challenging for my fmaily to say the least. I've tried to tell him I've got other people who rely on me. I've had times when I've been at my wits end not knowing how I can cope. Yet I still get the "make an effort".