Now I'm just confused

[need2bme]

So, I talked with my FOO tonight about leaving the church (see previous post "Taking first steps").  So...uNPDm just sat there and accepted what I said and said nice things.  My d, whom I have yet to figure out if he's a product of her or what, basically told me I was wishy-washy and 'running' and other stuff to make me doubt my decision.  I don't get it.  The 'feeling' I got from her was victory almost.  Her 'words' were good, but there was something array there.  I can't put my finger on it.  But it left me totally confused.  Dad has always been a bit overbearing and he sees things his way and that's the way it is, he never listens to what anyone has to say.  He just tells everyone what he thinks and what he sees.  Anyways, m basically said they would support my decision and she was glad I told them. 

Ok, so is this some type of N ploy? game?  Part of me wonders if it's because she's been planting her seeds of doubt within me and within my dad and she feels like she just succeeded?  Or if she feels this is a victory because I'm leaving the place that all my friends are and she gets to have full control of them?  I won't be there?  I'm sooooo confused!!!! 

[moglow]

Sounds like this is an excellent time to go with your initial feelings, regardless of their reactions.  I don't remember the back story but my thought is, your spiritual life is YOURS.  No one else gets to choose that for you and others don't have to approve.  Your parents don't have to agree or support your decision.  But know this, just because they accepted this on the surface doesn't mean it's over for them, or that you've heard the last of it.  But it's STILL your decision to make.

I'll be even more blunt:  Whatever game they may or may not be playing here, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if she feels she "won" in the big picture, because really, nobody wins anything in a situation like this [other than you winning your independence and finding the courage to stand up for yourself]. 

[Juniperberry]

One of the things I took away from therapy is that it is okay to take people's words at face value.  Your mom said she supports you.  Take that.  Woohoo!  If her actions later don't support that, deal with that then. 

But even so, who cares if she talks trash about you 24 hours a day to her church people?  You are moving on.  I know it feels bad, but you can't make it your responsibility to prevent her from talking poorly about you.  All you can do is act with integrity.  I f you're really that concerned about the opinion of your mom's friends, it's totally understandable, but it's something you'll need to work on to get past. 

Your dad is VERY invested in his church, comes with the job.  Of course he wants you to reconsider.  And he's right.  You are running.  It's okay to run from toxic relationships. 

You "win" whenever you make your own decisions with personal integrity.  Whether those decisions do or don't make your parents happy doesn't change a thing.  If you always go out of your way to make them upset, they still control you. 

[Sneezy]

One of the more interesting aspects of personality disorders is that they can seem to come and go.  Both my Mom and my MIL can seem like typical well-adjusted adults for long stretches of time.  And then bam!  Something happens that causes all the misery and rage and anxiety to spew forth.  It can be very unsettling for the rest of us and cause us to question our own judgement.  For now, I think Juniperberry is right - take you mom's words at face value and move forward.

As far as your own spirituality, I think it's time for you to figure that out on your own, and I just don't think that is possible when you belong to a church where one of your parents is a clergy person.  It's not anyone's fault, it's just how it is.  Take this opportunity to go down the path God has opened up for you.  Think about God, pray, listen, read, explore.  Go to different churches, read books by different authors.  Think about how you conceptualize and relate to God, and what that means to your life.  There are no right or wrong answers here.  Faith is personal.  No one else gets to tell you what to believe or think, not even your parents or your life-long church friends.  I am praying that you find the peace that passes all understanding.  Good luck!

[RavenLady]

need2bme -- Congrats on facing your fears and surviving this important initial step! Woo-hoo! That was a huge deal for you and I hope you are throwing a party for yourself. Not because of how it went, but because you had the courage to do what you needed to do regardless of their reactions.

We can't get inside other peoples' heads (which, all things considered, especially with PDs, is probably just as well). We can spend our energy endlessly trying to mind read (which I definitely do), or focus instead on the roadmap we know in our hearts we must follow (gettin' better at this). It's hard not to do the former when our parents shaped us to act like puppets on their strings and we feel so vulnerable to them, but the latter is how we get disentangled from that. While your PD parents' ugly might still come out in the near future, you can keep doing your own work and keeping your eye on the ball.

If I remember correctly, tomorrow you were planning on announcing your decision to the church. Fingers crossed for you with that too & hope you'll let us know how it goes.

Hugs!

[all4peace]

I very much understand the need to figure out what is going on, the figure out their motivations and hidden thoughts. It helps us feel safer if we can understand what is going on, to tell a story that makes sense. However, for myself, I can say that I tied up a lot of time and energy in what is eventually often not a very helpful exercise.

You have control over you. You are responsible for you. You are the only one to decide for you. So focus on you, that and those who are most important to you, and make your decisions from there. It truly doesn't matter what they believe, think or say to others.

I understand how hard it is to really believe that when you're in the first stages of un-enmeshing from your FOO, but it's really, truly true. Do what you do for the best reasons and for the best intentions, and it will all be ok. Maybe not pleasant, comfortable or what you're used to. But it will be ok for you.

My best to you!

[Dinah-sore]

I like what all4peace had to say.

I decided (again) not to join the bible study class that I used to go to with my mom. She used to embarrass me in class and call me a liar to the whole group, and kick me under the desk if she didn't think I was speaking clear enough. I used to go home every class, not excited about what I was learning but upset at something she said or did to undermine or correct me.

So the class started again this semester, and I chose for the second time to not participate. I told BPDm that I am just busy. To my face she didn't contradict me or make me feel bad, but my dad told me that when we got off the phone she railed on me for a half an hour to my dad that I don't have my priorities right, that I am not making God a priority, that she has insomnia and a job and yet she can still make time for Bible study class, etc. etc. etc.

So I do know that she is not supporting me in her heart. Big whoop. No surprise really. My gut tells me that. But the thing is, when my dad tells me stuff she says about me behind my back it just brings me down. It used to help me, because I knew that my gut feeling was accurate. But it doesn't fix anything. It just makes me angry.

My advice would be to take your attention off of what they are thinking and feeling. Kris Godinez (youtube) says that it isn't any of our business. I think it messes us up because we were conditioned to make what they thought of us a matter of survival, and it used to matter more than anything.

But like all4peace says, it ties up our time and energy.

I try to direct my time and energy to people who are healthy and positive, and let the negative people stew in their negativity. I am craving time spent with positive, loving, gracious, warm, genuine, happy people.

Anyways, I hope I don't sound preachy or bossy! LOL

Because I totally get it, I have literally gone to my enF and asked him to tell me what BPDm really thinks of me, and while it validates what I thought, it also doesn't matter what BPDm thinks! Her thoughts are disordered, her emotions are unhealthy and dysfunctional, and she is not the boss of me anyways. She has a right to sit at her house and think horrible things about me. That is what makes her miserable life tolerable--to put me down and think horrible lies about me--then that is her right. But I don't need to act like those lies have any value to me, my life, or the choices I make in my best interest.

On the other hand, I come here all the time to get input regarding what game my mom is trying to pull, so feel free to keep doing that with your dad. LOL

This forum can give you truth and validation, that you may never get from your father or your FOO.

Anyways, best wishes <3 <3 <3

[need2bme]

Thanks for the responses.  I learn so much from reading posts on here and get so much encouragement from the responses to my posts.  Sometimes, I feel so strong and feel like I can face this head on...then other times I just want to curl up in a fetal position and stay there, crying, for the rest of my existence on this earth.  I'm kinda on the second one at the moment.  I feel like I'm crazy...I don't understand why I have these moments.  Why I can know what I know without a single doubt at times...then feel like I've gone completely mental the next.  That alone could drive someone insane!!!  But I'm thankful for those strong moments...because when I'm weak and depressed...I remember those and hold on...because I know I'll have another good day soon.  It's like my mind is in complete utter exhaustion from battling so much within myself.  I think it's been about a month since this all began to 'sink in' and my eyes began to open.  But, that's par for the course, huh?  I keep telling myself...it took me 42 years to get here...I'm not gonna come out of it overnight.  But whewwww....this is a tough fight, isn't it?

Focusing on me...my needs...that sounds so easy.  Why in the world is it so difficult???  It's like, by default...my brain goes to what they think...what they feel...blah, blah, blah.  I can't shut it off!!!!  I am thankful I don't stay there long, it doesn't seem.  I usually pull myself out of it quickly.  I guess I'm a bit anxious about church tomorrow and telling the people I love so dearly goodbye.  Someone had said in a response about my mom's friends.  Those aren't my mom's friends...they are my friends....my 'family'...people who love and support me.  Yet, I'm the one leaving and she gets to stay.  I reckon I'm pretty angry about that...because nothing about it seems fair.  Life just isn't fair, is it?

Ok, so maybe I shouldn't be writing tonight...I've got negative nelly going on big time.  I had a long day though, and stressed about tomorrow...so my mind is a bit weak.  But I think sometimes allowing the weakness to show helps others not beat themselves up when they have down days.  So, I'll go ahead and post it.   I WILL OVERCOME....I WILL FIND ME...THIS IS NOT GOING TO TAKE ME DOWN!!!  I AM A SURVIVOR!!

You know, there should be some ribbon for emotional abuse survivors.  Like the cancer survivor ribbons.  This battle ain't for wimps!! 

[RavenLady]

It's okay to feel everything you are feeling. Keep breathing. Keep being as kind to yourself as you possibly can. Maybe take notes from the Toolbox and refer to them to keep your head clear?

Rooting for you and will be looking for your debrief when you have the space to post.

Hugs & hang in there. It's a moment in time, it will pass, and you will be on the other side, closer to your goals.

More hugs!

[Yael924]

 
I am so impressed that you are taking this important step. I had to delete two posts suggesting it because I didn't want to be bossy! 

You have every right to explore your spirituality. You have every right to want your dad to be your dad. Anyone who thinks about it would see how problematic those dual roles are.

You aren't criticizing your father or your church. You just need to separate the two.

I'll keep sending prayers and positive vibes to you. I'm just so proud of you. You are really brave!

[Juniperberry]

Someone had said in a response about my mom's friends.  Those aren't my mom's friends...they are my friends....my 'family'...people who love and support me.  Yet, I'm the one leaving and she gets to stay.  I reckon I'm pretty angry about that...because nothing about it seems fair.  Life just isn't fair, is it?

That was me.  I misunderstood, and I apologize. 

Life is not fair.  And that just sucks.  I'm sorry. 

In my head, when I hear from flying monkeys, I ask myself why this person assumes I'm acting in an unfair and cruel manner when they have no reason to think I'd behave that way.  If they believe my parents by default with zero evidence or confirmation needed from me, they are not my tribe.  And the ones who actually talk to me about it or tell me they know their are two sides to every story, I respect them and try to continue a relationship. 

Good luck today.  I think that your friends' behavior over the next bit of time will tell you who is worth your efforts toward a continued relationship and who is willing to quickly see you as the bad guy and maybe wasn't such a strong connection to begin with. 

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding. 

[need2bme]

That was me.  I misunderstood, and I apologize. 

No worries!!!  It was just a misunderstanding.   

As far as flying monkeys, I'm seeing them...I'm finding them.  But thankfully, I have many friends (in that church) that have been so supportive.  One of my dearest friends and one of the 'backbone' of the church said "There was always something about her (uNPDm) that I never could warm up to".  My two closest friends, both members of that church, have been so supportive and have validated my emotions/feelings so much.  I can't imagine going through this without them.  I have recognized that I can only talk to them to so much depth, because they are unable to understand the depths of it.  But they always say "I don't understand, but I support you, I'm here for you, and I will fight along side you".  They are actually the reason I surrendered my life to Jesus completely.  Because I knew they had something that was real....not fake like all the church people I had ever seen in my life.  I told God "if what they have is real and it's really You, then I want that". 

I guess the reason I was feeling so defeated was because it felt like I was the one having to leave when it's m that's creating the trouble.  So, it was difficult to accept that I had to leave the place I see my friends the most because m is a bully.

Anyways, I totally get the misunderstanding and it's ok.

So, yesterday I spoke to the church as a whole.  I felt loved and supported and m wasn't quite a smug as she had been the night I told her and dad.  I'm slowly shutting her out and finding 'me' that's separate from her.  My belief in who God is, tainted by m's abuse....my belief in who I am, tainted by m's abuse....my belief in who other people are and can be, tainted by m's abuse.  Absolutely nothing in my life is left unscarred from her abuse.  BUT.....I have begun the journey to healing and to recreating truth in my mind!!!  And what's really cool is that I began at a massage therapy school 2 weeks ago and one of the classes is about changing your thought patterns!!!  I don't believe the timing of all this is coincidental at all!! 

Speaking of which, I have found a resource that could be beneficial to everyone.  It's called ThinkUp...it's an affirmation app that allows you to record your own affirmations and plays music behind them.  I have tried affirmation recordings before and found them to be unsuccessful.  This one, on the other hand...had touched me already.  Hearing my voice say positive things!!!!  I am excited to see my future self!!!!

[RavenLady]

 

You go, girl! You're so doing brave. Impressed by you!! And relieved for you you are getting the validation you deserve.

HUGS!

[Juniperberry]

 
Well done!