Tired of working on myself

[blacksheep7]

Hi all,

I guess I'm just frustrated and tired of it all.  I'm creeping up to my mid sixties.    I don't feel old, have an active love of life, always on the go on the weekends.  I lost that because of the pandemic like all of you.  I'm doing better because I was able to see why.  I took out Peter Walker's book: Complex Ptsd and saw that I was having a Flashback.  I'm still learning!
It read: when you feel small, helpless & hopeless.

I'm not whining here because I couldn't go out but because I am still affected by my childhood which was always walking on eggshells.  I am a hyperactive because of it although I maintain an exciting life but quiet mentally. When I came Out of the FOG was when I understood the meaning of the deep impact the abuse it had on me.  I have been to therapy on and off  since in my early twenties suffering from anxiety then came the panic attacks and depression.   My breakups with my partners were ALWAYS INTENSE.  Just like my parents, I felt abandoned again.

I also realized that I need to have an active social life, more than ever.  Just being free of going to the store whenever. What I'm saying is that I felt threaten/insecure which made my anxiety creep up on me feeling the uncertainty of the future, living something that is scary and unknown as  in my childhood home.  I guess I still fear any type of insecurity.  I also know that my NF terrorised me with his weekly threats of kicking me out from the age 14.  I didn't have the courage like some of you to leave home at 18.......too insecure/afraid of not making it on my own.

I did well in life after all, had good confidence to get good jobs even though I didn't do well at school because it was my escape, breather.  I was a single mother at once and bought my modest home on my own.  But I notice since I went nc with FOO, my confidence or self esteem is a roller coaster depending what is going on in my life.  I notice that not being on the workforce anymore, I probably feel less valued.   Those are my thoughts from my experience.

I had a hard time tackling things on my to do list that demand mental energy but  I still am wiser in some areas after all  the decades of therapy ( lol) that I know what to do sometimes.  DO IT,  then realise, well that wasn't as hard as I thought.   One  day at a time.

In conclusion I'm just saying that I'm still reading self-help books.  Yes, they help indeed just as this site did wonders for me....but sometimes after decades, I feel like just    

I'm mostly venting but do any of you experience this up and down, do you fall back sometimes, feel less motivated?   For those that are close to my age, do you still have to constantly or regularly work on yourself.  I haven't been  to therapy in a long while and I really don't feel like it.  The price of that is that I have to do it on my own.

[Pepin]

I'm about 15 years younger than you and I get this.  The pandemic to me feels like a control...I can't do things when I want to and that is exactly how it felt living under NF's roof.  It was only his time that mattered and I had to be available all the time even if it meant doing nothing....and yeah, I spend a lot of time now doing absolutely nothing.  But, I've done a heck of a lot more yardwork...and that has been my escape.

That being said, I am an introvert so I have never enjoyed large gatherings of any kind -- and honestly, I really don't care for people that much.  Interactions with cashiers and people I pass on dog walks are really plenty for me.  30 minutes tops with my friends and then I zone out.

Like you....I also didn't do so well in school.  It was absolutely impossible because as you said, it was a breather -- it was a place to collect my thoughts but sadly, that took focus away from where it needed to be in order to be a top student.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm in my thirties but I rate to a good deal of what you say. I ALWAYS procrastinate making phone calls, errands, sometimes for weeks. Then it's done in five minutes. 

I also feel the feeling of I just don't want to do this personal growth crap anymore. I'm hopelessly behind and I'll never catch up (my inner critic says). I feel exactly the same about my housekeeping. But, the people need meals and clean underwear again so here goes. I want to like myself and have good relationships with my FOC so here goes. Other days I'm like Snow White with the cleaning and self care and whatever. It's human. We work on ourselves until we die. Sometimes that's comforting, other times It seems depressing. Because we don't expect to ever achieve perfection in this life.

I think the key is something like changing the goal from the unacheivable. I was also brought up in a very controlling household and there was not room to just BE. Everything from my posture to my facial expression to my activity at any given moment had to be just right. I think sometimes we can get that hypervigilant attitude toward our recovery work as well. Am I doing enough? Would I be progressing faster if I went back to therapy? I think we turn the same critical eye on ourselves that our parents trained in us. It's ironic in this instance, but it's just same old same old. Fortunately we're learning how to deal with that. Still.

[notrightinthehead]

Yes. Yes. Yes. I also believe that we can work on us until we die. And we can change. Blacksheep you sound like you are in a stable, good situation and what you are frustrated with is, that you are not always happy and self confident. That sometimes unpleasant feelings come up, feelings that you used to be able to keep at bay by being busy. I can relate to that. The way I have dealt with these feelings recently, I have allowed them to be. The whole of last week I was overcome by a deep, dark feeling of self hatred, which under normal circumstances I would have avoided to experience and feel, and this time I endured it. It was not pleasant. But these are just feelings, after all. I did not learn much, I don't really know where it came from - a combination from childhood and bad choices in my life probably - but after all the therapy and self help books, we know how to deal with it.  And now it is gone.
We are all still affected by our childhood. But we have a choice how it affects us. We can complain and be bitter, we can still fight the windmills of the past, or we can take the lessons learned then and use them to love ourselves better. To give ourselves the nurturing now, that was denied us then.

[Hopeful Spine]

I'm also about 15 years younger but I can so relate to the things you posted.  This past year has been exhausting with changes and my strives to improve.  I find that I go through bits of time where I feel hopeless (I will never "get better") and times where I find acceptance ("this is me and I'm pretty darn great").

I learning now what really makes me happy and how to avoid the things that hurt me.  I do get sick of the trial and error but those good days are so worth the not so great days.

I hear your vents and you are not alone!!

[blacksheep7]

Thank you for your replies    
They are comforting and inspiring. This is Validation that I needed, knowing that  I am not alone still struggling sometimes to manage my feelings, emotions & behaviors even after four decades.
A thought came to me after I wrote the post: my therapy for the most part was about my relationships/partners not the nitty-gritty of my childhood.
I don't have a dh that knows what to say or do in my situation, he'll listen but that's it so I usually don't even share my inner pain  with him  because of his incapacity to  understand that my wounds are very deep rooted. He grew up in a whole different environment where there was no violence of any form.  Like we always say here,  people who have not experienced this kind of upbringing Do Not Know the lifetime impact of it all.

I'm about 15 years younger than you and I get this.  The pandemic to me feels like a control...I can't do things when I want to and that is exactly how it felt living under NF's roof.  It was only his time that mattered and I had to be available all the time even if it meant doing nothing....and yeah, I spend a lot of time now doing absolutely nothing.  But, I've done a heck of a lot more yardwork...and that has been my escape.

That being said, I am an introvert so I have never enjoyed large gatherings of any kind -- and honestly, I really don't care for people that much.  Interactions with cashiers and people I pass on dog walks are really plenty for me.  30 minutes tops with my friends and then I zone out.

Like you....I also didn't do so well in school.  It was absolutely impossible because as you said, it was a breather -- it was a place to collect my thoughts but sadly, that took focus away from where it needed to be in order to be a top student.

Yes, the pandemic felt like control.  I have kept very busy at the beginning of it doing spring cleaning  and dh painted where needed.  It was good, we got along fine.  It was like a high and then he went back to work after a couple of weeks  it left me drained physically so I slowed down the pace. I don't have the same energy as in my 30's or 40's lol.  There is still more to do but no hurry, keeping it for rainy days.   I lost interest in things I like, reading a novel is one of them amongst projects I had in mind.  I was always restless.
I am an extrovert so I need people in my life once in a while. 
As for not doing well in high school, the load that I had at home was too heavy, did chores in my teens that M should have done. I did the mending repairing on the sewing machine. She didn't know how.  I helped the two younger sibs with their homework, I  taught  my NF to read English, typed for him, going to the bank to deposit M's pay check, buying her nylon stockings...like wt.... And more, so many errands    Sometimes I think NF wanted to keep Ignoring covert M ignorant. NF pushed our education too hard and in the wrong way, never being present or motivating us, just wanted the results. I thought I was stupid for a hell of a long time until I went back to night school and had very good grades, I surprised myself. None of us four kids went to university. I am proud to say that dd went.

I’m in my thirties but I rate to a good deal of what you say. I ALWAYS procrastinate making phone calls, errands, sometimes for weeks. Then it’s done in five minutes.  :
I also feel the feeling of I just don’t want to do this personal growth crap anymore. I’m hopelessly behind and I’ll never catch up (my inner critic says). I feel exactly the same about my housekeeping. But, the people need meals and clean underwear again so here goes. I want to like myself and have good relationships with my FOC so here goes. Other days I’m like Snow White with the cleaning and self care and whatever. It’s human. We work on ourselves until we die. Sometimes that’s comforting, other times It seems depressing. Because we don’t expect to ever achieve perfection in this life.

I think the key is something like changing the goal from the unacheivable. I was also brought up in a very controlling household and there was not room to just BE. Everything from my posture to my facial expression to my activity at any given moment had to be just right. I think sometimes we can get that hypervigilant attitude toward our recovery work as well. Am I doing enough? Would I be progressing faster if I went back to therapy? I think we turn the same critical eye on ourselves that our parents trained in us. It’s ironic in this instance, but it’s just same old same old. Fortunately we’re learning how to deal with that. Still.

Yes, procrastination, a dirty word..lol  That is how I could tell if I'm doing well mentally, how I handle my day to day chores, activities, projects and leisure time...am I focused?
I like what you said about working on ourselves until we die, that it could be comforting or depressing at times knowing that we don't expect to ever achieve perfection is this life. 
I probably am trying to achieve it, being hard on myself which I know I am as a person. I have to just go with the flow and not have this intention of reaching perfection, having no flaws.  Just Impossible.  That was what was expected of us as children.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I also believe that we can work on us until we die. And we can change. Blacksheep you sound like you are in a stable, good situation and what you are frustrated with is, that you are not always happy and self confident. That sometimes unpleasant feelings come up, feelings that you used to be able to keep at bay by being busy. I can relate to that. The way I have dealt with these feelings recently, I have allowed them to be. The whole of last week I was overcome by a deep, dark feeling of self hatred, which under normal circumstances I would have avoided to experience and feel, and this time I endured it. It was not pleasant. But these are just feelings, after all. I did not learn much, I don't really know where it came from - a combination from childhood and bad choices in my life probably - but after all the therapy and self help books, we know how to deal with it.  And now it is gone.
We are all still affected by our childhood. But we have a choice how it affects us. We can complain and be bitter, we can still fight the windmills of the past, or we can take the lessons learned then and use them to love ourselves better. To give ourselves the nurturing now, that was denied us then.

You are right, I am frustrated from not always being happy and self confident.   Good for you on allowing yourself to feel those uncomfortable feelings, just sit with them till they pass.  I know that is what I have to do but I haven't mastered it yet.  To be honest, I haven't done it with the most heavy feelings, I tend to self medicate by eating or whatever could numb or make them pass.   I should know better.  I put it all aside when «my life» is smooth.   That is a goal to do need to reach or should I say work on.
I for once have given myself some slack by trying to nurture and comfort my inner child that I never got from my NM, to love myself more.  As you say, denied. 

It's a work in progress.

[blacksheep7]

I'm also about 15 years younger but I can so relate to the things you posted.  This past year has been exhausting with changes and my strives to improve.  I find that I go through bits of time where I feel hopeless (I will never "get better") and times where I find acceptance ("this is me and I'm pretty darn great").

I learning now what really makes me happy and how to avoid the things that hurt me.  I do get sick of the trial and error but those good days are so worth the not so great days.

I hear your vents and you are not alone!!

Thank you Hopeful Spine. 

I think it's just a matter of not being hard with ourselves.  On this forum we all have two things in common, our upbringing and  our willingness/eagerness  for improving ourselves in self confidence/self worth.

We/I should look at what we have achieved so far instead of looking at the negative of it all when our world collapses. I often think that if we had this technology in the 80's it would have done wonders but as they say, better late than never.
I am happy for the younger generations that can benefit from this site, making their future smoother with our community to help them.

Yes, nice to know that we are not alone!!!

[not broken]

I feel like I could take pieces from each post here and it would literally be my own story.  You are not alone, none of you, none of us.   @BlackSheep, I am also about 15 years younger and first went to therapy around 19, panic attacks, restless, pretty good student, not great- and likely because I was so worried about what bad grades meant about me personally.  The pandemic has brought the inevitable to the forefront in my house now- finally using all of my therapy and work to feel strong enough to ask for separation and stay the course.  18 months ago I switched from my on again off again therapist to a trauma-focused therapist- and this has been life-altering for me because of the following:

1. My previous years of on and off therapy focused on the most obvious trauma- which was with one parent.  It wasn't until this past year that I looked at the whole picture, and BOTH parents and my relationship with each.  Specifically, I never gave weight to the insidious guilt and covert narc traits my father used because I could easily say that they pissed me off.  I never realized that when my mother (who was an emotionally distant parent due to her own traumas from physical abuse to abandonment by her mother among a couple of other things)  packed my shit and made me go live with my father two months before hs grad- and didn't speak to me for 10 years, the trauma wasn't just about my relationship with her.  It was also my helpless and hopelessness of having to live with him- which I told myself I needed to be appreciative that he wanted me to live there.  The problem is that he made it all about HIM (standard operating procedure) being so happy to have "his daughter" with him, and never once did he try to help me emotionally or even speak about it, bridge the gap between my mom & I and instead it gave him the freedom to throw digs at my mom whenever he wanted.  I didn't speak to my mother for 10 years. 

It was also at this time that I can now see my greatest regret in life clearly- I quit the one thing/sport I loved the most and what kept me sane and grounded- because I chose to work during college so that I wasn't reliant on him, and I didn't have to share what was mine with him. 

2.  The side of my family that gave me what I have always considered the love and values- actually was very controlling.  They enabled my father and encouraged one of my most loathed responses when anyone states how they feel about something or what they want- "oh it's just your dad, he loves you. he wants to spend time with you, he misses you." I have always seen this as something I am supposed to appreciate- because they taught me that what I wanted was secondary based on one's role, one's title, or whether or not they said they loved you. 

3.  I ping-ponged for 12 years between accountability without emotion and 100% conditional emotion with attention- but only when I did the things they liked doing.  Throw in a step dad that I connected with on hobbies, who was a yeller which I learned to accept- but never knew about the physical abuse that came with it- because my mom hid that part. 

4. All of it combined has affected me and continues to affect what I have believed I needed from someone else.  Their validation of what I wanted to be considered okay, or reasonable, what I really needed, etc.  My time spent in trauma therapy has allowed me to see that I was strong enough to stand up in a verbal fight and crisis- which is because I did learn that from my mother.  What I had never realized is that I am also conditioned to take the blame when someone feels a bad emotion.  As a child I had no control over where I lived- but my dad commented on it EVERY WEEK when we spoke on the phone or visited his house.  I ALWAYS felt guilty because I hated how he made me feel and when I said anything to anyone- I was told I wasn't being fair, and I was supposed to caretake him because of HIS ROLE.  I am conditioned to be the caretaker of other people's emotions, to accept the blame for how THEY FEEL based on what I DO. 

It's not healthy, and when I met my HwNPD and maybe BPD, who better to validate my feelings, what I looked like, what I said or when I was irritated with my parents or family?  Who better to tell me that I didn't need them?  Sadly, this came at the cost of my identity and I ultimately became a shell of myself.   

I am sorry to go on about "me".  I just don't know yet how to explain what I thought I knew vs what I had to be willing to see and accept.  I am no longer as angry. And I keep these two thoughts as a guiding light each day:
**I don't have to tolerate the bad to receive the good.
**I don't want or need anyone to rescue me.

If I am feeling angry about a situation, I think about whether or not I am blaming someone and try to turn it around to give myself compassion for whatever didn't or isn't happening.  I try to make decisions with the mindset of using the information to evaluate whether or not my choice will cause regret in some way down the line.  If I think it will, I do my best to challenge myself and tolerate the discomfort and make the other choice.  THIS has been a lifeline for me during COVID19 and dealing with his emotional tantrums.

I believe that the ongoing feeling like we are working on ourselves forever can be exhausting and some days feels hopeless.  I am getting better at recognizing when I start to feel this way.  Sometimes I just focus on the feelings and allow myself to cry.  This has helped me to feel them in real-time and to actually feel better afterward.  I hope that something from this can help in some way.

Last but not least, one book that really helped me was Betrayal Bond by Patrick Barnes PhD. There are some really great personal questionnaires/ inventories in it.

[Hopeful Spine]

**I don't have to tolerate the bad to receive the good.
**I don't want or need anyone to rescue me.

I too love how all these stories seem familiar to me.  It's unfortunate that we've all experience such hurt in our lives but it feels good that I'm not alone.  Sometimes the subtle kind of hurt is the worst.  The sneaky jabs that send a clear message - "I'm hurting you but you'll never prove it."  It makes a person without a voice become more silent and more unsure of their place (and value) in the world.

I love these two points you brought up.  I have tolerated A LOT of bad.  As a 13 year old girl I wanted to dance with my mom, aunts and cousins at a wedding celebration.  I had to put up with my mom giving me the side eye and mouthing, "what are you even DOING?"  I toned down my dancing, pasted a smile and pretended to be having the time of my life with my cousins, even though I felt like this ridiculously uncool person next to my mom.  This is a silly example of how this treatment started for me.  I have lots of examples just like this.  For years I'd reason with myself, "My dance moves probably were bad and she was embarrassed."  "I was probably "showing off" and being a brat."  Each time she treated me this way I'd feel bad and then reason with myself.  "Oh well, at least you got to spend time with favorite cousin." or "at least no one else heard her saying that to me.  They think I'm good."   In that situation I tolerated my mom's mean treatment in order to enjoy my cousins.  As I grew older, the things I tolerated became much larger (being violated on a date because I wanted to have a boyfriend).   

I'm at a point now where I'm being bullied within an organization I joined.  This woman is toxic and everyone knows it.  They really just tolerate it and then we all bond over it later.  I'm finding it difficult to stay true to my commitment to the organization.  Emotionally healthy people can probably deal with a person like this.  But me, on the cusp of breaking free - I really struggle.  The payoff of bonding with the rest of the group isn't enough to endure this one awful woman and I'm not sure how I'll proceed.

And your other point - rescue.  All my life I've desperately wanted someone to step in and save me.  I hoped that aunts would speak up at family gatherings.  I'd fantasize about teachers telling my mother how wonderful I was and should be treated like gold.  I'd cling to my bosses at work or the youth leaders at church when they praised me (finally!  someone cared!).  I'd wish my dad would have throttled the young boyfriend who hurt me.  Even growing older I'd want my first husband to stand up for me in front of my first mother in law.  I'd want my grown up bosses to save me from difficult situations with clients (even if dealing with the clients was my responsibility).  When my second husband abused alcohol I wanted my in-laws to step in.  No one ever did and my resentment grew to intense levels.  I have been learning that there is no glory in waiting for someone to rescue me.  I only grow as a person when I rescue myself.

[SparkStillLit]

Hopeful Spine. You're me. I wouldn't save myself. Oh, but I'd save another at any cost. Even to the extent that it was my JOB for a long time. Me, meh. I could go to the devil.
Like you, I'm just now learning. It's amazing to read in here, and valudaring too, to share these experiences and know we aren't alone and it CAN be done.

[blacksheep7]

I feel like I could take pieces from each post here and it would literally be my own story.  You are not alone, none of you, none of us.   @BlackSheep, I am also about 15 years younger and first went to therapy around 19, panic attacks, restless, pretty good student, not great- and likely because I was so worried about what bad grades meant about me personally.  The pandemic has brought the inevitable to the forefront in my house now- finally using all of my therapy and work to feel strong enough to ask for separation and stay the course.  18 months ago I switched from my on again off again therapist to a trauma-focused therapist- and this has been life-altering for me because of the following:

Good for you in having the courage to go through with it! 
When I decided to separate from the father of my children in my early 30's  I was confident in the decision but still scared somewhat, the unknown.  It was hard dealing with dh but went fine overall.  He was a narc criticizing/making fun of my sister eight yrs younger (the lost child, extremely shy)  who could crawl to the floor and hide with his remarks, no filter what so ever.  A loud mouth. 

1. My previous years of on and off therapy focused on the most obvious trauma- which was with one parent.  It wasn't until this past year that I looked at the whole picture, and BOTH parents and my relationship with each.  Specifically, I never gave weight to the insidious guilt and covert narc traits my father used because I could easily say that they pissed me off.  I never realized that when my mother (who was an emotionally distant parent due to her own traumas from physical abuse to abandonment by her mother among a couple of other things)  packed my shit and made me go live with my father two months before hs grad- and didn't speak to me for 10 years, the trauma wasn't just about my relationship with her.  It was also my helpless and hopelessness of having to live with him- which I told myself I needed to be appreciative that he wanted me to live there.  The problem is that he made it all about HIM (standard operating procedure) being so happy to have "his daughter" with him, and never once did he try to help me emotionally or even speak about it, bridge the gap between my mom & I and instead it gave him the freedom to throw digs at my mom whenever he wanted.  I didn't speak to my mother for 10 years. 

It was also at this time that I can now see my greatest regret in life clearly- I quit the one thing/sport I loved the most and what kept me sane and grounded- because I chose to work during college so that I wasn't reliant on him, and I didn't have to share what was mine with him. 

I'm sorry to hear that you went through this, your M not speaking to you for ten years.  It very hurtful & damaging not being loved by ones M but the rejection of a parent is  the worst kind of trauma for a child.
Your father not trying either. 
What comes to mind in all this is (I'm not excusing them one bit) that this dysfunction of no self awareness and emotional intelligence was very present and part of the society  in the past, passed down from generation to generation. The children were not their priority or should I say their feelings.
My parents also are proof.  They had kids because it was the thing to do, my NF was not made to be a NF, to self centered on his own life & ambitions.  My M the submissive type that never solved any conflict.  Does not know how.  She lived in NF's shadow.

2.  The side of my family that gave me what I have always considered the love and values- actually was very controlling.  They enabled my father and encouraged one of my most loathed responses when anyone states how they feel about something or what they want- "oh it's just your dad, he loves you. he wants to spend time with you, he misses you." I have always seen this as something I am supposed to appreciate- because they taught me that what I wanted was secondary based on one's role, one's title, or whether or not they said they loved you. 

That is what I call a «one size fits all answer» from people/family who are not aware of your pain/story, it's not their business and don't want to get involved.

4. All of it combined has affected me and continues to affect what I have believed I needed from someone else.  Their validation of what I wanted to be considered okay, or reasonable, what I really needed, etc.  My time spent in trauma therapy has allowed me to see that I was strong enough to stand up in a verbal fight and crisis- which is because I did learn that from my mother.  What I had never realized is that I am also conditioned to take the blame when someone feels a bad emotion. As a child I had no control over where I lived- but my dad commented on it EVERY WEEK when we spoke on the phone or visited his house.  I ALWAYS felt guilty because I hated how he made me feel and when I said anything to anyone- I was told I wasn't being fair, and I was supposed to caretake him because of HIS ROLE.  I am conditioned to be the caretaker of other people's emotions, to accept the blame for how THEY FEEL based on what I DO. 

No one should take the blame for another....their stuff our stuff.  We were conditioned to play that role, the black sheep.
A therapist once told me « the news anchor on tv does not worry how people are going to respond/react to what he has to announce»  To each his own to carry.  So that goes with the family.

  I am sorry to go on about "me".  I just don't know yet how to explain what I thought I knew vs what I had to be willing to see and accept.  I am no longer as angry. And I keep these two thoughts as a guiding light each day:
**I don't have to tolerate the bad to receive the good.
**I don't want or need anyone to rescue me.


If I am feeling angry about a situation, I think about whether or not I am blaming someone and try to turn it around to give myself compassion for whatever didn't or isn't happening.  I try to make decisions with the mindset of using the information to evaluate whether or not my choice will cause regret in some way down the line.  If I think it will, I do my best to challenge myself and tolerate the discomfort and make the other choice.  THIS has been a lifeline for me during COVID19 and dealing with his emotional tantrums.

I believe that the ongoing feeling like we are working on ourselves forever can be exhausting and some days feels hopeless.  I am getting better at recognizing when I start to feel this way.  Sometimes I just focus on the feelings and allow myself to cry.  This has helped me to feel them in real-time and to actually feel better afterward.  I hope that something from this can help in some way.

Last but not least, one book that really helped me was Betrayal Bond by Patrick Barnes PhD. There are some really great personal questionnaires/ inventories in it.

Don't excuse yourself about saying that it's all about you.  We are here to share, listen and bring comfort to each other that we didn't get from our parents.  By this, educating our selves and healing at the same time

I love your thoughts.

I still struggle sometimes (work in progress)  with dh when I want to tell him that I don't like what  he is doing. For example he misses an exit on the highway (which is often) he starts cursing on end, loudly which gives me ptsd, NF's rages.  But, I've been doing it.

I will have to read your book, a new one to add.

We've got this!
No, we are not alone....what a feeling

[Amadahy]

Hi, Blacksheep7,

I'm 51 and oh-so-tired and, sorry to say, kind of apathetic.  I mean, I put all my limited energy into my FOC (a great group of people), but for myself, I'm just too wiped out.  I literally cannot focus enough to read any longer and I used to love to read (an escape, really).  I go to counseling 2 x month and that has been helpful in terms of getting Out of the FOG, but as far as finding a path to me, to passion or vision or drive .... nope.  I think I've just crashed and burned.  All during my 20s, 30s and early 40s, I was a go-getter, really driven and productive by society's standards. Mid 40s, I woke up one day and realized I was just done. I've managed to work and raise my children and do what has been necessary to get by, but I feel like a shell of a person because I just don't have it in me to find meaning or purpose or anything right now. I think the sloth is my spirit animal. LOL.  I'm trying to be patient and gentle with myself, but sometimes I get worried that I will be stuck feeling like this forever. It's kind of a numbed out place, and I really don't like it.   

[SparkStillLit]

I feel like you folk are "out", and I'm still "in". I don't know if my perception is correct. (Like it's prison....gosh....)
I finally got my little kayak, I won money off my family & family friends playing dice at the lake on a ladies only trip (I know!!!!!!) and I kept it and hid it a whole year, and bought my kayak with cash. I got a little one so I can load and unload it by myself - I'm not a small woman, I'm Amazonian, but I *absolutely did not* want to need help with it. I only use it on flat water, locally, so if it's the bare minimum size for me, WHO CARES! IT'S FUN! I so desperately needed a me-hobby. I feel like it's a big step to getting me back, and I do have friends who do it. I like to go by myself, too.
I've been practicing MC and noticing what has GOT to be extinction burst type behavior.
I have been reading The Four Agreements, and while I personally find it a bit woo (I'm not religious or any sort of thing, pretty much straight up heathen I guess), I think the base principles still work just fine.
I think my default setting is not "mean" as updh claims, but is in fact "perky and sunny" as others have claimed. In fact, I was "Sunshine" to one lovely lady who spoke to me daily for 9 years but we never met.

[blacksheep7]

Hi, Blacksheep7,

I'm 51 and oh-so-tired and, sorry to say, kind of apathetic.  I mean, I put all my limited energy into my FOC (a great group of people), but for myself, I'm just too wiped out.  I literally cannot focus enough to read any longer and I used to love to read (an escape, really).  I go to counseling 2 x month and that has been helpful in terms of getting Out of the FOG, but as far as finding a path to me, to passion or vision or drive .... nope.  I think I've just crashed and burned.  All during my 20s, 30s and early 40s, I was a go-getter, really driven and productive by society's standards. Mid 40s, I woke up one day and realized I was just done. I've managed to work and raise my children and do what has been necessary to get by, but I feel like a shell of a person because I just don't have it in me to find meaning or purpose or anything right now. I think the sloth is my spirit animal. LOL.  I'm trying to be patient and gentle with myself, but sometimes I get worried that I will be stuck feeling like this forever. It's kind of a numbed out place, and I really don't like it.   

Hi Amaday,

I can relate to your 20's 30's 40's, I was like you, full speed ahead.  At the same time through those years I was on sick leave from work x times, not coping well with stress and  my breakups.  Of course....I  did not learn the coping mechanisms and self soothing from my parents as all of us here. This broke my physical energy today although I must say I am very healthy, just get tired more rapidly with my spring cleaning as an example.

Do you still have kids at home?  Are you doing too much for them, things that they can do on their own?
When dd was an adult going to university and had questions concerning her courses, schedules etc., she wanted me to call.  I gave her that responsibility. 

No, you won't feel like that forever, I can assure you.   Since  I wrote this post, there is a big difference.  I accepted that I will have other times in my life that will be filled with angst But only temporary.  It will pass , as it is  right now.  Things are looking brighter just reading that we are not alone and we all go through this at some point.
I have to learn to sit with those uncomfortable feelings as I said before, to not have them take over my life.

If it could make you and all those 15 yrs or so younger than me, you are  years ahead of me.  At 50, I was still in the dark about Out of the FOG.

By the way, the sloth is my ds favorite animal, don't forget he has a permanent smile on his face even though he's slow.      
take care

[blacksheep7]

I feel like you folk are "out", and I'm still "in". I don't know if my perception is correct. (Like it's prison....gosh....)
I finally got my little kayak, I won money off my family & family friends playing dice at the lake on a ladies only trip (I know!!!!!!) and I kept it and hid it a whole year, and bought my kayak with cash. I got a little one so I can load and unload it by myself - I'm not a small woman, I'm Amazonian, but I *absolutely did not* want to need help with it. I only use it on flat water, locally, so if it's the bare minimum size for me, WHO CARES! IT'S FUN! I so desperately needed a me-hobby. I feel like it's a big step to getting me back, and I do have friends who do it. I like to go by myself, too.
I've been practicing MC and noticing what has GOT to be extinction burst type behavior.
I have been reading The Four Agreements, and while I personally find it a bit woo (I'm not religious or any sort of thing, pretty much straight up heathen I guess), I think the base principles still work just fine.
I think my default setting is not "mean" as updh claims, but is in fact "perky and sunny" as others have claimed. In fact, I was "Sunshine" to one lovely lady who spoke to me daily for 9 years but we never met.

SparkStillLit,

Your name represents you well, also being call Sunshine.
Reading your post, you don't come across to me as if you are still «in».  If so,  you are handling it well. 
I felt like you, in prison or back in my childhood home, being controlled.

You mostly talk about your new project/sport, your kayak so there is negative talk here. 
Good for you!!!   Something to look forward to, especially something that you like and have saved up for it.

Enjoy!

[not broken]

@blacksheep7, I just wanted to say that I am very appreciative of the time you have taken with each post.  Thank you for your kind words and comments, they mean a great deal.  As I check back in today and read through the comments that I have missed, I am hoping that you are in a good place. I know your post most likely stemmed from not feeling good, and I have to say even knowing that, your curiosity to hear from others and talk about something or wanting to "just be" shows a great deal of strength.  Don't sell yourself short, think about how keeping your head up and wanting to listen feels so much better than letting a day or event consume you and bring you down with a thud.

I also wanted to comment on what you said about working and feeling valued. I think that is a significant component to those of us who learned to take care of ourselves early on out of survival.  I notice that when I feel like I have no choices or that no matter what I do, nothing much will change, I freeze.  That's a tough place to be and feels terrible.  I think the constant moving forward and taking action made me feel strong- and then when I am stuck or frozen- I feel weak. Recently in therapy, I uncovered that I never really felt (certainly was never told) that it was okay to be sad about how I felt as a kid- or that it was okay to need to have my feeling scared about. I rarely, if ever, think about this- and have buried it deep. 

Accepting this over the last ten days has allowed me to face a few other things in my life that make me feel weak- admitting that I am afraid of my hwNPD and/or hwBPD when he is angry or in a rage.  It wasn't until yesterday that I could say these words instead of focusing on his being cruel or mean, etc..  It was like I had to come up with the best descriptive word for what he does, rather than how I feel- scared and afraid. Ironically, accepting this and admitting this to myself has released me of feeling the need to defend myself and why I want a divorce. 

Plus it has also helped me to clean house when it comes to crappy friends and the people who have meaning in my life that I appreciate and value. Last but not least, I am wondering if you have found anything that you love to do that is new or that you never pursued, or maybe forgot about.  Something just for YOU?

[blacksheep7]

@blacksheep7, I just wanted to say that I am very appreciative of the time you have taken with each post.  Thank you for your kind words and comments, they mean a great deal.  As I check back in today and read through the comments that I have missed, I am hoping that you are in a good place. I know your post most likely stemmed from not feeling good, and I have to say even knowing that, your curiosity to hear from others and talk about something or wanting to "just be" shows a great deal of strength.  Don't sell yourself short, think about how keeping your head up and wanting to listen feels so much better than letting a day or event consume you and bring you down with a thud.

I also wanted to comment on what you said about working and feeling valued. I think that is a significant component to those of us who learned to take care of ourselves early on out of survival.  I notice that when I feel like I have no choices or that no matter what I do, nothing much will change, I freeze.  That's a tough place to be and feels terrible.  I think the constant moving forward and taking action made me feel strong- and then when I am stuck or frozen- I feel weak. Recently in therapy, I uncovered that I never really felt (certainly was never told) that it was okay to be sad about how I felt as a kid- or that it was okay to need to have my feeling scared about. I rarely, if ever, think about this- and have buried it deep. 

Accepting this over the last ten days has allowed me to face a few other things in my life that make me feel weak- admitting that I am afraid of my hwNPD and/or hwBPD when he is angry or in a rage.  It wasn't until yesterday that I could say these words instead of focusing on his being cruel or mean, etc..  It was like I had to come up with the best descriptive word for what he does, rather than how I feel- scared and afraid. Ironically, accepting this and admitting this to myself has released me of feeling the need to defend myself and why I want a divorce. 

Plus it has also helped me to clean house when it comes to crappy friends and the people who have meaning in my life that I appreciate and value. Last but not least, I am wondering if you have found anything that you love to do that is new or that you never pursued, or maybe forgot about.  Something just for YOU?

not broken

I thank you for this post.  Interaction and advice is always welcome.

I  have cleaned house of my crappy friends.   It was an automatic for me after coming Out of the FOG.

Someone posted a phrase that caught my attention and I pass it on
«don't bother to care about people who don't  genuinely care about you».

As for pursing something new I had  my plans last  for this autumn as I need to get out my four walls (house) but with the covid it will not be possible. 
I have two  lovely projects to do at home that I had in mind x years ago, procrastinated for years.

take care

[BefuddledClarity]

@blacksheep7, I just wanted to say that I am very appreciative of the time you have taken with each post.  Thank you for your kind words and comments, they mean a great deal.  As I check back in today and read through the comments that I have missed, I am hoping that you are in a good place. I know your post most likely stemmed from not feeling good, and I have to say even knowing that, your curiosity to hear from others and talk about something or wanting to "just be" shows a great deal of strength.  Don't sell yourself short, think about how keeping your head up and wanting to listen feels so much better than letting a day or event consume you and bring you down with a thud.

I also wanted to comment on what you said about working and feeling valued. I think that is a significant component to those of us who learned to take care of ourselves early on out of survival.  I notice that when I feel like I have no choices or that no matter what I do, nothing much will change, I freeze.  That's a tough place to be and feels terrible.  I think the constant moving forward and taking action made me feel strong- and then when I am stuck or frozen- I feel weak. Recently in therapy, I uncovered that I never really felt (certainly was never told) that it was okay to be sad about how I felt as a kid- or that it was okay to need to have my feeling scared about. I rarely, if ever, think about this- and have buried it deep. 

Accepting this over the last ten days has allowed me to face a few other things in my life that make me feel weak- admitting that I am afraid of my hwNPD and/or hwBPD when he is angry or in a rage.  It wasn't until yesterday that I could say these words instead of focusing on his being cruel or mean, etc..  It was like I had to come up with the best descriptive word for what he does, rather than how I feel- scared and afraid. Ironically, accepting this and admitting this to myself has released me of feeling the need to defend myself and why I want a divorce. 

Plus it has also helped me to clean house when it comes to crappy friends and the people who have meaning in my life that I appreciate and value. Last but not least, I am wondering if you have found anything that you love to do that is new or that you never pursued, or maybe forgot about.  Something just for YOU?

not broken

I thank you for this post.  Interaction and advice is always welcome.

I  have cleaned house of my crappy friends.   It was an automatic for me after coming Out of the FOG.

Someone posted a phrase that caught my attention and I pass it on
«don't bother to care about people who don't  genuinely care about you».

As for pursing something new I had  my plans last  for this autumn as I need to get out my four walls (house) but with the covid it will not be possible. 
I have two  lovely projects to do at home that I had in mind x years ago, procrastinated for years.

take care

It seems like the older I get, the less tolerant I am of crappy "friends". I used to be very trusting of people, but now I'm a bit more paranoid...Currently made a new friend at work, who I enjoy talking to, but I'm going to try and take it slow this time. I used to warm up too fast and feel hurt after it doesn't work out. 

I've been told by my younger brother(See Sibling is always causing trouble) that I'm mean for being the way I am...

My significant other though...Most of his friends have red flags(i.e. scammed him out of money, used him for a place to stay, used him for drinks, etc) but he still hangs out with them...

Sometimes I feel like the only way to get some peace of mind is to cut off all the toxicity/negativity...

What's upsetting about the COVID is I finally escaped some toxic people (i.e. Mother moved back to my hometown, MIL is FINALLY out of our house, etc), but didn't get to fully enjoy it because of the pandemic...It leaves me frustrated amongst other things..

Thank you for writing this post by the way, some of the things you said resonated with me.