How do I decide what to do with my relationship with my mom?

[Lovelily32]

This one may be long, so I'm sorry. I'm 27f and I've been married to my current husband for 3 years. I live in a different country from my parents but up until a year and a half ago, I lived very close to them.

When I was 18 I met my son's father, who was 6 years older than I was. I quickly fell in love and at first everything seemed great. But my parents, especially my mom because my dad wasn't around as much, weren't happy. Though when my dad was home, he wasn't happy either. They said they weren't happy because he didn't make enough money and wasn't working enough, in their opinions.

We (my ex and I) got engaged and planned to get married in a year when I was finished with a program I was doing for phlebotomy. We planned that he would work more, I would be able to finish school and we would plan our wedding I'm between and get married in the next summer.

My parents didn't like it and because my mom was so controlling I told her that i may just move out sooner because I couldn't take it. After my mom and dad seemed really upset over me possibly leaving earlier than planned, I decided to stay until the next year as I initially planned and get married.

I started planning my wedding and my mom made the dress fitting an absolute hell. I remember constantly apologizing to the sales associate who was helping me. After this, I went out to a restaurant with my family and my mom was huffy and puffy about me talking about my wedding dress options and I said "what's going on? I thought we has agreed it was ok that I was getting married?' And she said "well I thought I was but I'm just not." We went home that night and I didn't argue or anything. The next day my mom went up to my phlebotomy program and told them she wasn't going to pay for the program for me anymore if I was going to get married. I was on my parents' phone plan and my mom took my phone from me so I couldn't talk to my fiance that day when I got home. She also cut the internet so I had no wifi that day either. I don't remember arguing I just asked her to please turn the wifi back on so I could finish a paper for my phlebotomy program.

The next day was a Friday and I went to school and came home and my dad said we were going out of town for the weekend where he was working about an hour away and I said I didn't want to and I wanted to stay home. My dad was already gone and it was just my mom and I with my younger brother at home. My mom told me I had to come and I said I had stuff for school to do and that I wanted to stay home. At that point she started kicking things around my room and she grabbed me and tried to shove me outside into the car, I remember her scraping my arms against the brick outside and by the time I got away from her she'd ripped my shirt off. At that point I left and went to live with my fiance and got married shortly after and my mom and dad, especially my mom, were super cold to me. I would visit my younger brother at his school because I didn't even want to go home and when I was I didn't feel comfortable. I remember asking my brother if I could have a piece of his brownie and my mom told me i could only eat things me or my husband had bought. After that I didn't feel comfortable at all being there and went there occasionally. At this time, I had stopped my phlebotomy program because I was worried about paying for it. They hadn't paid the first two months of the program so I ended up paying that bill.

After a few months my husband at the time started to become really emotionally and verbally abusive but I didn't want to go home because of my situation with my mom, she told me she was going to try and have more kids because they wanted a successful child. I ended up having my son and then three years later, my husband at the time and I divorced. My son lives with me and doesn't see his dad. My parents and I repaired our relationship but my mom stayed abusive and controlling until I moved away with my son and current husband. My current husband and I married 3 years ago but when we were in the same town, I couldn't get away from her. She still makes comments on the phone that good children want to be around their parents, etc. Up until I met my extended family after a long time, I thought they were ashamed of me for marrying someone my parents didn't like. Turns out they are great people and I've missed out on a lot not knowing I could have relationships with them. My mom always used to tell me I put myself through my abusive marriage because I married him without their permission. All of this stuff still extremely hurts me and I'm in therapy because of it. I'm terrified of becoming my mom and I'm making sure that will never happen.

I really don't know how to deal with this stuff years later and for some reason now, it's been bubbling up. Possibly because my son is getting older, I'm not sure. How do I deal with this? How do I navigate a relationship with my mom when I feel no connection to her anymore?

[Andeza]

Well, in answer to your last question, you don't have to. Read that again. You don't have to have a relationship with anyone that is abusive, no matter how many DNA chains you happen to share with that person. Full stop.

If you want to have a relationship with her (ask yourself why would you want to several times and write those reasons down), you need to do it in a way that is safe, with boundaries. Boundaries exist because you create them and maintain them. They are not a behavior guide for your mom, but for you. Cause and effect. She gets abusive and starts saying hurtful things, you end the phone call short. It can be done in a kind and respectful manner, without shouting or demeaning, but in a way that protects you.

As for why now? I personally believe that around 27-32 some people start looking at the world differently. More jaded, less naive. And we can see and identify abusive behavior a lot more easily once we hit that phase. The age varies, and there's no right or wrong here. It's just my observation of majority numbers/data, nothing more.

I can tell you if your mom is living with a personality disorder of some form, it is extremely unlikely that she will change what she does no matter what you do. Not impossible, but we're talking winning the lottery type odds...

[TwentyTwenty]

Sorry that you are going through this.

I agree with Andrea.

I came to the same point as you, but much later in my life. My only regret is that I lost years of what could have been better mental and physical health for myself by waiting to go no contact.

I finally came to the decision that my health, well being, work and parenting were more important than trying to have a peace that was non-existent, since she never really wanted any peace in truth.

In my opinion, it may be time to put your health first, because without it, all other aspects of your life will also suffer.

I've been 4 years no contact, and I'm in the best place that I've been in my entire life.

[moglow]

Hello, LovelyLily - I think you decide what to do when you're ready. Sounds simplistic, yes, but it's true for most of us. There's no timeline, no definitive THIS is too much/not enough/your last straw. We all get there in different ways, and some straws simply carry more weight than others.

Andeza mentioned boundaries, and I second that for sure! The sooner you set boundaries, the better you will feel - your mother may balk when you put your foot down or end phone calls when she gets nasty or insulting, but that's not your stuff. Mine certainly didn't like it, but such is life. She was/is bad to focus on the negative and will beat you down with it, so I started with swift change of subject to totally innocuous and positive [beautiful weather, gardening, cat/dog stories]. She saw through it and would pitch a tantrum that she never got to talk! So - talk. And she'd go back to growl growl snarl. I'd find a positive spin to whatever she was saying, she'd get mad and end the call. Fine. I was going to do that anyway!

Thing is, you have to be consistent. Cut it off - politely, change the subject, end the call if needed, but maintain your own high road in whatever way feels right for you. If you roll over and engage the bad behavior just to get through, it not only beats you down but she gets the message that if she persists you'll eventually absorb all the poison anyway. You deserve better.

"She still makes comments on the phone that good children want to be around their parents, etc. " Don't take her bait and snap back with the truth, but  good parents - good PEOPLE -  don't treat others this way, whoever they may be. She's not encouraging, if that's what she thinks, she's beating you down and pushing you away. Mine had made many spiteful and biting comments about how we've let her down, will/would send snotty goading texts for no purpose other than to take a whack at someone, refuse to answer when we respond or call. THEN complain  no one calls or visits. Self fulfilling prophecy so she could forever blame someone else for her misery.

What you need to grasp, it this is totally your call - she's not in control of this unless you allow it and she can't make you do [or not] anything. You could commit yourself to a phone call whenever works best for you. If she calls middle of the day and it throws off your chi, find a different time to talk to her. If you talk to her three times a week, back it up to once or once every few weeks. If you need a break from her altogether, do that for as long as you need. I think back to what a counselor asked of me years ago "if this was anyone other than your mother what would you do?" I wouldn't have anything to do with her, or at best be polite and be gone. "Then why does she get a pass, get to walk all over you?" Because she's mother. "And? You're still the same person and you still deserve better."

I suspect that trying talk this out with her wouldn't end well - it could open floodgates that you're not ready for. So do what feels best for you and stick to that, regardless of any attempts she may make to change direction for you. Remember always, you're an adult with a child of your own, not her doormat to wipe her feet on.

[Cat of the Canals]

She still makes comments on the phone that good children want to be around their parents, etc.

Yikes. Guilt trip, much?

How about this: Good parents have children that WANT to be around them.

[nanotech]

Your mum has blamed you for your own abuse.
Abuse is NOT and is NEVER the fault of the victim.
NEVER EVER EVER.
The double whammy of being abused then being told ' oh well it was all your fault' by your mum, when it's your family you need, is devastating.
I had this blame/ shame stuff from my mum - wasn't to do with  my husband but a previous relationship was very abusive. I was blamed and shamed for his abuse of me -and I dragged that guilt around with me for decades. At the time when I was in the abuse I had to hide it from her, because she adored him.
My heart truly goes out to you. 
The button pushing about 'good children liking to be around their parents'  (generalised drivel)  isn't true of good children. It's not even true of enmeshed, codependent children.
They may do it, but they are unhappy; they are unaware that they are still being abused.  Don't carry on being abused. Who cares what they say or think? Really, I mean it! You're allowed to think WTF and just breathe and laugh out loud about all of that crap!
Never take it seriously ever again!  Live your life.
Look up Jerry Wise on YouTube. He is amazing. He shows how dysfunctional Family Systems are set up to 'ping' us - to cause emotional reactions and he gives advice about how to manage/ reduce or eliminate the contact with dysfunctional family members.  He advises on a lot more as well - very very useful practical advice. He's been through it himself. Take care xx

XxxxX

[cfe123]

There are a few things here that resonate with me.

First of all, this is a level of control that is way beyond what I have experienced. I do think you absolutely need to limit or cut contact altogether, but be prepared for a real onslaught since she will not like that she can't control you any more. Make certain that she cannot get to your bank accounts, phone, friends, work colleagues, and the like. She will try to ruin her life in any way possible. You may need to look into a restraining order.

The other thing is the fear that you will become like her. I have noticed that, although I am not BPD, I have learned some behavior patterns from my BPD parent. I feel ashamed of my past bad behavior sometimes and I also have to be very careful to think about whether my actions are really my own, or if they are shaped by what my BPD parent does. But ultimately you need to forgive yourself, and you need to not give in to her guilt trips. Nothing she says is actually real. It is all designed to keep you in her web. It has been very hard for me to realize that my parent will never actually be a parent, but BPD simply doesn't allow for it.

Good luck. We've been there too.

[Hilltop]

Your parents are quite overt with their control and abuse.  Parents should want to see their children succeed and yet they put roadblocks up for you.  Not paying for your course, turning off your phone and the wifi so you couldn't do the program.  That is so damaging to you.  It keeps you under their control, it was done to make you fail.  That behaviour is abusive.

What your mother said about you being in an abusive marriage because you married without their permission.  Wow, that's stunning to blame your abusive ex's behaviour on you.  I was reminded by something my mother did when I was much younger and living at home.  I was dating a man who treated me poorly, stood me up for dates and left me in tears.  What was my mothers advice, to communicate better, it would be fine if I tried harder, if I worked harder at communicating properly with him it would get better.  At no time did she say his behaviour was unacceptable and I shouldn't put up with it.  I did not recognise it for what it was at the time I couldn't see it.  Years later I see that this advice is not advice you would give to anyone you cared for.  You would tell them to run, fast.  I certainly wouldn't blame a friend for her boyfriend or husband being abusive.  What my mother did was just part of a pattern she played of enjoying seeing me down in life or not succeeding.  Your mother also plays a role of controlling you and lashing out if you don't comply.

No one here can tell you what to do, it has to come from within you.  I will tell you that I am much better away from my parents and their blame and abuse.  I feel much calmer and I don't have that gut wrenching fear, the knot in my stomach when I am around them, the constant uncertainty, the feeling of insecurity, the feeling of shame.  That is all gone.  Not having that abuse playing out in front of me during a visit or hearing it in a phone call has given me so much clarity about the situation.  I moved away from them a couple of months ago and the distance has been like night and day for me.  I just feel free.

I stayed because I felt I had to, I felt responsible but when I finally broke free I saw the light.  Some people do extremely well with boundaries, I didn't because it was so hard for me to put a boundary on mocking behaviour.  If I called them out they simply blamed me for their behaviour.  In the end walking away from the game was what I needed.  This is the part you will have to work out for yourself.

However stop blaming yourself.  You are not causing this, you are not doing anything wrong and you can't change this or their behaviour.