At what age to PD traits appear?

[Bowsy26]

My dnpdh is realizing that I will be leaving soon and decided to "share" a couple stories from his youth.  I believe they were meant to elicit sympathy from me which they did but they also strengthened my resolve to get out ASAP. 

One story was of him getting up in the middle of the night and making a huge pot of mashed potatoes for himself and eating them with a couple sticks of butter.  His family was very poor and they received what were then called commodities from the government.  No food stamps back then.  So this was a huge deal to his parents who got up and discovered him eating this.  It sounds like they did a decent job of being calm and explaining the food was needed for the family, cleaned up the mess and put his potatoes in the frig for the family the next day.  H yelled and screamed he was hungry, they had no right, etc.  He ended up waking up his brothers and sisters.  He was about 11 at the time.  The 2nd story was of his younger brother and his friends playing outside and singing a song about H's name.  It was not vulgar, just a sing-songy type thing.  Nothing mean in the lyrics.  I think they were just younger children doing what younger children do.  They didn't even know H was near a window in the house that allowed him to hear.  He went outside screaming at them to stop, grabbed one and started whaling on him.  he was about 5 years older than the kids.  Someone pulled him off (an older brother perhaps?).  His age at that time was about 14.  H said he had discovered that the more emotion you bring into a situation, the better it felt (i.e. get angry, yell, scream, kick).    

Is this something others dealing with a PD partner or family member have experienced?   Could this be early indicators of the trouble to come?  Or am I just overloading on PD behavior descriptions and reading a lot more into this than really is there. 

This whole thing was an eye-opening exchange which he apparently thought would bring us closer and that I wouldn't leave.  He has been saying I love you a lot     where before I hadn't heard it in a few years.  It seems like the potatoes incident showed selfishness, lack of empathy, entitlement, sneakiness and planning though kids of that age are still developing social skills.  The song incident perhaps is a lack of concern for others safety (beating on a smaller child), lack of impulse control, entitlement.  Also an inability to laugh at one's self which he has to this day.  If he feels the least bit embarrassed, he will throw a major meltdown that can last for a few days. 

BYW, while the family was poor, their mom made sure the kids were all fed including baking stuff, popcorn for a filler, etc.  Also, H is mostly PA as an adult, but he will get angry sometimes up to the point of a meltdown if he doesn't get his way.  Otherwise, he is always in PA mode.  He is an expert at image management, triangulation, and lying.

[NumbLotus]

I was really struck by him saying the more emotion he could bring to an incident the better it felt for him. I have sometimes wondered about the cost-benefit analysis of some PD behavior. Were I to scream and kick and all of that, it would feel HORRIBLE to me. So I wondered if some people wanted their way so strongly they were willing to pay a high price. But maybe some people aren't paying any price at all, they enjoy these terrible emotions? I would feel wrung out, sick, a headache and stomachache, sore, high blood pressure, hot face. And also ashamed of myself, very much so. I knew PDs don't feel shame (well the milder ones do) but the idea of a meltdown being enjoyable blows my mind.

[Poison Ivy]

I don't know the age (if there is one specifically) at which PD traits can or do appear.  But what I'm struck by in your situation is your husband's lack of emotional intelligence, which he demonstrated by telling you these stories.

[GettingOOTF]

I’m no expert on this but my personal opinion from what I’ve read and experienced myself  is that people with PDs don’t have healthy, loving, fulfilled upbringings. There is always some trauma in their past.

My BPDxH grew up in a nice area and never wanted for things like food, education etc. but he grew up in an abusive home where his farther was absent for his career and when he was home he ruled the place with an iron fist.

My BPDxH had a lot of self esteem issues and I remember my SiL saying how abusive the father was. He died before I met my ex. I now see how important that fact was.

That said, I grew up in an abusive home with addiction. issues. We went without a lot, including  regular meals and clothes that fit. I remember being cold a lot.

Not everyone who grows up in a PD home ends up with a PD but those who have a PD all seem to have trauma and abuse in their background.

I too remember getting up in the middle of the night to eat as I was so hungry and getting in yo trouble for it the next day, but I work on my issues from that time.

It’s heartbreaking that your husband experienced hunger and all the uncertainly that goes with it, but it’s no excuse or justification for treating others poorly.   

[BeanerJane]

It's hard to say.  My BPDm tells a story that she thinks is adorable.  She is the middle child and in this story she's probably 5 or so.  When her brother was born she was jealous of him taking away the attention she's previously enjoyed so she shaved him with a straight razor. Of course her mother found out and was very upset that her baby was prickly! She thinks it's a cute story about her as a little girl. That story always gave me the creeps.  Especially once I had children of my own I realized what a super weird and dangerous thing it would be to shave an infant with a 1940's style razor (or any razor - but especially one of those).  In conclusion, I suspect her mental illness started to show itself when she was still a child.

[11JB68]

My sil has a story about my Updh jumping on her in her bed and starting to punch her.
Since sil is a bit nuts, possibly a pd also, I discounted this when I heard it.
Now it scares me.
Not sure how old he was... But still at least a teen

[ScotsLady]

To my knowledge there was never any abuse in my husband's childhood, but I think there was a bit of chaos in it as he was brought up by his mum and never knew his dad despite his mum telling him she would tell him when he was older and never did.  His mum worked a lot and sometimes had 2 jobs so he stayed with relatives and friends of the family a lot.  He then discovered after his mum died that she was adopted and she had never told him.  He always puts his mum away up high and loves her to bits, but I do believe she has messed him up somewhat.  She was quite a serious woman I'm told and there was never any fun and games at home.  She never spoke to him about girls and he grew up feeling embarrassed to even mention the subject and felt when he met a girl that he couldn't take her home as it would embarrass his mum and that would embarrass him too!  So he never had a girlfriend until after she died and he was in his late 30's! 

He always goes on about how my parents are awful people and how badly I'm brought up as he doesn't like my parents!  This does anger me, but now I learn not to take the bait as he sometimes says these things to wind me up!  He said a really weird thing the other day to me about what a tyrant my mum must have been to give me into trouble if I did something wrong when I was young!  He said no matter what he did he never felt any fear or wariness of what would happen if his mum were to find out as he would merely get a pep talk and his mum would never shout at him.  To my knowledge, she only grounded him once and I do believe that as he grew older, bigger and stronger, that she was afraid of him and couldn't deal with him.  So I maybe wrong, but I do think his Personality Disorder started at an early age and wasn't helped by the way his mum dealt with him.   

[PeanutButter]

I agree with GettingOOTF!

Negligence, parentification, and emotional incest IS abuse. Just because someone wasnt shouted at, called names, or hit doesn't mean they were not abused.

Child Neglect: deficit in meeting a child's basic needs, including the failure to provide adequate supervision, health care, clothing, or housing, as well as other physical, emotional, social, educational, and safety needs.

Narccississtic parentification: occurs when a child is forced to take on the parent's idealised projection; Emotional parentification: occurs when a parent seeks to have their social and emotional needs met through their child; Instrumental parentification: is when a child assumes a physical care-taking role

Emotional incest: a style of parenting in which a parent looks to their child to provide a level of emotional support that would normally be provided by another adult.

[Wilderhearts]

Even though personality disorders can't be diagnosed in childhood, they are detectable.  What would be diagnosed as ASPD/sociopathy in adulthood is often diagnosed as Oppositional Defiant Disorder or Conduct Disorder in children, so there is evidence that PDs develop during childhood.