Entitlement!

[p123]

Thanks Serenity. Hes getting worse and I struggle to cope.....
I STILL cannot believe he would say such a thing. Like you said, I need to get my head around not trying to understand his crazy behaviour.

I would REALLY REALLY like to go Low contact with him. I just don't the fight in me to deal with the initial fallout. I KNOW he would fight tooth and nail and DO ANYTHING to fight back against this. Hes proved in the past he'll do this. If I blocked his number or something he'd escalated. He WOULD call the police or something and play the "poor old man" trick that we was worried about me. He'd tell the rest of the familly I'd deserted him. He'd fake something and get admitted to hospital and then blame me. He'd threaten to  do himself harm. I wouldnt put anything past him.

Cowardly maybe. But I just can't. Its making me ill at the moment with all the stress to be honest.

[Call Me Cordelia]

And what would the police do? Handcuff you and drive you to your dad's house? If he threatens self-harm YOU call the police.

I have compassion for your fear. Really I do. I've had anxiety attacks anticipating my father showing up at my house, my MIL showing up at my house, CPS taking away my children due to my father's lies. I've feared bringing further trauma upon my children. The fear still comes back at times even after going NC. But I decided that no matter what their crazy grandparents did or didn't do, my children deserved a mother who lived in strength and not fear. I did and am doing what I would want for someone I cared about in my situation. I want freedom, and the only way is to push through the fear. Fear is not reality. It's a feeling, not an imperative.

For myself I found the strength over my fear in Christ Jesus, but from the examples of others you don't have to be religious to do this. Reality is reality. The truth is you can if you choose to. You are seeing your situation for what it is and that's most of the way out.

Your father may do any or all of those things. You will survive. There are people on here who have survived all of those tactics.

You're suffering so much, and it's not right. It's a lifetime of fear and conditioning at work. I get it. But really you're afraid of a pathetic old man who won't even take responsibility for feeding himself. He's a child. You are an adult with plenty of resources to handle whatever tantrum he throws.

[lkdrymom]

I understand the fear and guilt about going low contact.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  This doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.  If you normally visit every Sunday, find a way to miss out one Sunday a month for your mental health.  Or could you get away with a shorter visit on Friday after work then skip Sunday?  My father is in assisted living and I visit roughly every three weeks and my visits are now about 20-30 minutes.  In July I ended up visiting him quite often so I took August off. Luckily he is at the stage where he can't judge time so he thought it was only two weeks and gave me grief for that.  I have found the more you do or visit the more they expect. It will never be enough.  If you saw your father three times a week he'd be griping about it not being 4 times a week.  When you realize this it is easier to back off.  Take baby steps if you can't do the big one.  If I were you I would shoot for every other week. If he gripes about food tell him he better buy enough when you are there or he is SOL.  Or you can point out your brother could take him on his next visit.  Your biggest problem is that you let him get away with his flimsy excuses.  And I totally get that you don't want to argue with him.  Next time you take him shopping remind him that you can't make it next week so he better stock up.  If he refuses don't argue, but remind him that you don't want to hear next week that he is out of food, he has been warned.  Then don't take his phone calls the next week. Or your brothers. You can't change him but  you can change how you react.

[p123]

I understand the fear and guilt about going low contact.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.  This doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing.  If you normally visit every Sunday, find a way to miss out one Sunday a month for your mental health.  Or could you get away with a shorter visit on Friday after work then skip Sunday?  My father is in assisted living and I visit roughly every three weeks and my visits are now about 20-30 minutes.  In July I ended up visiting him quite often so I took August off. Luckily he is at the stage where he can't judge time so he thought it was only two weeks and gave me grief for that.  I have found the more you do or visit the more they expect. It will never be enough.  If you saw your father three times a week he'd be griping about it not being 4 times a week.  When you realize this it is easier to back off.  Take baby steps if you can't do the big one.  If I were you I would shoot for every other week. If he gripes about food tell him he better buy enough when you are there or he is SOL.  Or you can point out your brother could take him on his next visit.  Your biggest problem is that you let him get away with his flimsy excuses.  And I totally get that you don't want to argue with him.  Next time you take him shopping remind him that you can't make it next week so he better stock up.  If he refuses don't argue, but remind him that you don't want to hear next week that he is out of food, he has been warned.  Then don't take his phone calls the next week. Or your brothers. You can't change him but  you can change how you react.

Im trying for every two weeks at the moment.

I visited last sunday and last night. Yet still he asked last night when I was coming at the weekend....

Oh I know about the excuses. His chest freezer has three things in it. He gives me a list - 1 of this, one of that. In the past, I've bought double and hes moaned and moaned. Reasons ranging from:-

1. "I didn't want to spend that much money in one go" (hes got £40K in the bank though)
2. "The food won't keep that long" (90% if it is frozen - are you really trying to tell me you dont know how freezers work)
3. "I don't know what to do" (This is in response to my offer of arranging home delivery, where he gives me the list, I order it and he pays for it - yep you answer the door.

At the moment, hes violently rejecting the home delivery idea. I've also caught him out about 3 times now where hes telling me hes not seen anyone and no-ones done his shopping and I know brother has been there day before. Thing is hes also very good at sweeping these things under the carpet never to be mentioned again.

Of course, its all a game in his attempt to get me to visit as often as he'd like. If he agreed to home delivery that would pave the way for his bad son to NEVER visit in his head. How he thinks I dont know what hes doing is beyond me. As I've often said, if he didnt do these things I'd want to visit more.

At the moment, he keeps asking what I'm doing at the weekends. Not telling him any more. He seems to have the idea in his head that ANY of my free time should be spent on visiting him. Obviously, I have things to do with my own kids.

Which is another thing. He is TOTALLY disinterested in my kids - his grandchildren. Ignore them. I think to him they are just an annoyance that take my focus away from him. In the past, he has said "what did you bring her for?" when I brought my 6 year old (I walked out that time).

[Andeza]

P, you could live in your dad's house, and he'd still complain he didn't get to see you enough. When I still lived at home I got my hands on an insanely long, fascinating, complex series of books. It was great, and I got it right before spring break! I was thrilled! So I managed to read a ridiculous amount in the space of a week spent mostly in my bedroom.

UbpdM complained she was lonely and I hadn't spent time with her.

Also while I was living at home I was working on a book, I had been busily typing away for long hours for a couple of days in my spare time. I was in the living room... Less than five feet away from UbpdM... She looks over at me and gripes that I'm not spending time with her and she's lonely.

It will never end and it will never be good enough.

[Hazy111]

P, you could live in your dad's house, and he'd still complain he didn't get to see you enough. When I still lived at home I got my hands on an insanely long, fascinating, complex series of books. It was great, and I got it right before spring break! I was thrilled! So I managed to read a ridiculous amount in the space of a week spent mostly in my bedroom.

UbpdM complained she was lonely and I hadn't spent time with her.

Also while I was living at home I was working on a book, I had been busily typing away for long hours for a couple of days in my spare time. I was in the living room... Less than five feet away from UbpdM... She looks over at me and gripes that I'm not spending time with her and she's lonely.

It will never end and it will never be good enough.

[p123]

P, you could live in your dad's house, and he'd still complain he didn't get to see you enough. When I still lived at home I got my hands on an insanely long, fascinating, complex series of books. It was great, and I got it right before spring break! I was thrilled! So I managed to read a ridiculous amount in the space of a week spent mostly in my bedroom.

UbpdM complained she was lonely and I hadn't spent time with her.

Also while I was living at home I was working on a book, I had been busily typing away for long hours for a couple of days in my spare time. I was in the living room... Less than five feet away from UbpdM... She looks over at me and gripes that I'm not spending time with her and she's lonely.

It will never end and it will never be good enough.

WOW thats crazy...

Funny thing with my Dad is if I invite him out to lunch or something he'll say no. Doesn't make sense. One minute hes saying how hes stuck in the house and never goes out then I'll invite him to go for lunch and he'll say no. He'll make all sorts of excuses such as he can't walk (theres spaces next to the door) etc etc.

If it HIS idea he'll do it. Like If I turn up he'll say I haven't been out - take me out in the car. Its then his idea. Like I said, sometimes I take my daughter whos 6 so, in the past, Ive taken them both to a country park. Dad gets a ride out and daughter gets to play in the park. But NO Dad always moans about it - not his idea again - why do we have to wait for you're daughter to play in the park, I want to go home now. Hes just so selfish.

Last time  I stuck him back in the car and left him alone for 30 mins - he did not like it. Now hes taken to "I dont want to go there" and "I want to go there" wheres theres nothing. No matter how many times I tell him he just does not care that 6 year olds arent keen on 90 minute car journeys with nothing to do. Its all about him.

[Hazy111]

Which ones  the 6 year old?

I remember having to drive up north for a family funeral or something and he insisted in going in the front even though it meant it was easier for everyone if he went in back. He just didnt care about others. His mother was the same a uBPD.

[p123]

Which ones  the 6 year old?

I remember having to drive up north for a family funeral or something and he insisted in going in the front even though it meant it was easier for everyone if he went in back. He just didnt care about others. His mother was the same a uBPD.

Not sure if you mean mental age - definitely my Dad. BUT I do have a daugher whos physically 6.

[p123]

Just leaving work been busy. Today is his birthday. I visited last night.

Can GUARANTEE he will want to know why I didnt phone earlier to wish him happy birthday? Can GUARANTEE he'll want to know why my wife hasn't phoned him (never going to happen).

All because, in his head, this is how we should all respect him.

[Hazy111]

Unplug phone for the evening

[Andeza]

 

Unplug phone for the evening

[StayWithMe]

P123, your post 43 makes me believe that your father just likes fucking with you.  Establish a certain amount of time that you will give him snd then stick to it. If your visits can include grocery, even better.

Do you bring the kids and the wife over? I certainly would. Remind him you have a family to take care of.

[p123]

P123, your post 43 makes me believe that your father just likes fucking with you.  Establish a certain amount of time that you will give him snd then stick to it. If your visits can include grocery, even better.

Do you bring the kids and the wife over? I certainly would. Remind him you have a family to take care of.

Well he certainly likes to "win" and I'm sure he gets a warm glow when he gets me to do something.

His ultimate goal I think is to get me to visit more than I do now and for him to KNOW that he can click his fingers and get me there. Of course, this means he has to try whatever tactics he thinks he needs to. Agreeing to take an easier option means he needs less so might mean less visits so he likes things a bit screwed up because then if the situation is bad he still needs things.

Wild horses couldnt drag my wife there lol.

I do mostly take my daughter. I KNOW he hates it but now hes clever enough to not say anything after I walked out that one time. My wife works a  lot at the weekend so I've got no choice but to take her.

She also plays a sport (netball) when shes not working. Dad went through a phase of making a huge sigh when I had my daughter with and told him wife was playing netball. As if how dare your wife be doing something else, making you bring your daughter with you when you're seeing me. Hes stopped that now.

Honestly though, his lack of interest in his grandchildren is sad to see. Totally disinterested. Of course, to him they are just in the way a bit preventing 100% access to me.

This weekend my wifes working both days 9-5. So I've got my teenage son (ok hes not much trouble usually but he does have aspergers so you have to be careful) and my 6 year old daughter to look after. I love looking after them but its busy. Saturday 1030 -11 swimming lessons, 12-1 gymnastics, Sunday skating club 745am-9 (I know!), 9-45-1045 skaing lesson. 12-2 taking her to trampoline place.

Been to Dads last sunday for a few hours and wednesday evening (because it was his birthday) for an hour (getting home at 830pm!). Yet he still moans I dont visit him. I'd be nice to be left alone to have my own life a little!

[Adrianna]

So your dad and my grandmother are similar. I haven't been on the forum much the past couple of years. My grandmother is 97, still at home, self centered, fears abandonment, is manipulative, deceitful, a drama queen, complains constantly that no one helps her, and spends literally her entire day wondering when the next person is coming  over and what are they going to do for her. She only values people for what they do for her and has no interest in them as human beings. No respect for anyone's time. No ability to see beyond herself. When she gets into rehab she wants to be transferred to another Nursing home asap because they aren't servicing her fast enough. The entitlement is outrageous. When she doesn't get enough attention (narcissistic supply) she falls into narcissistic collapse which is basically her whining constantly, not feeling like eating, and basically acting like breathing is effort. She also likes to pretend she has dementia (she does not.) This usually leads to an ER stay then rehab. I have multiple people going in through two agencies, a friend of the family, her neighbors, a nephews wife (who replaces the last one who moved across the continent), and of course  me. And guess what? Still not enough. It's never enough. I'm in therapy and realizing wow I've been emotionally abused my entire life by this woman. Belittled, gaslighted, manipulated, guilt trips, lying. I found out recently she's been telling people for at least 5 years that I don't do enough for her. Underlying sentiment is that I'm no good. Now that she's very old she'll tell people right in front of me "she doesn't do anything for me" while I took time out of work to be there for her at that moment.
I'm pretty pissed off and tired of dealing with this but doing best I can to limit contact.  I do all the arranging of services for her but she chooses to believe her doctor does it. So be it. I even had a social worker try to explain to her all the effort I'm doing on her behalf and it fell on deaf ears. I told that social worker thanks for trying but you are wasting your breath. She is incapable of appreciating me or anyone else.
So they don't get better when they age. They get more manipulative, with no filter to even pretend to be nice anymore. She truly has alienated most people with her entitled selfish behavior.
Oh and I'm not 100% sure but I think she fakes illnesses or even an injury recently where she fell in the garage. Hit her head. She had been feeling particularly sad for herself that week (always sad for herself not anyone else) and I fully expected her to place herself on the floor or fall for attention soon then that happened. Maybe she did fall on accident, but wouldn't put it past her to do it on purpose. How sad we have to even think that about someone?
Oh and her son (who told me years ago she's my responsibility now because her house is in my name and he wanted it) is now in rehab himself with few visitors. I'm extremely limited in time I spend with him and am teaching my son who is in his 20's to set firm boundaries with his grandfather. No one should have to be treated like a servant and that's all we are to them.
On a bigger scale, I find their lack of empathy downright opposite to what I thought we as humans were supposed to be. Without empathy, the ability to love, have compassion, have a conscience, what sets us apart from any other animal species? I thought all humans had empathy and it's been a paradigm shift to accept many do not.
I wish I had advice for you beyond low contact, setting boundaries, having zero expectation to be treated like a human being, and therapy. No one who has not experienced a pd family member will ever understand what we go through.

[p123]

Last night we had another classic. Land line rings at 5pm. I always avoid answering at this time - 5pm is the time hes realised that I'm not coming to visit and despite me saying I'm busy his guilt trip has now worked that day. So conversation always goes along the lines of "oh so you didn;t visit. where have you been?" i.e. justify it lad and I'm going to make it as awkward as possible, followed by "so you're coming tomorrow?" - more guilt.

So I ignored it, 10 mins later my cell phone rings, then my land line again. No messages left. Used to this one as well - he never leaves a message. If he did, I'd know what he wanted and could make the choice whether to call, better for him to not let me know and keep ringing. Of course, then multiple calls make it look like its an emergency too!

This goes on for HOURS. 40 calls in 2 hours I see today. NO messages left. Eventually, I call him back. All it is hes had a scam phone call and hes WORRIED they're going to take his money. "Did you give them your bank details or anything?" No. SO WHY THE BIG DRAMA?

I told him this could have waited. (To be honest, if he'd have left a message I probably would have called back sooner!) NO I WAS WORRIED!!!! I WANTED TO SORT IT NOW!
In other words, this is what I want to do, and I'll phone you until I get hold of you.

Not happy. 40 CALLS!
If he'd been dying in hospital they'd probably have phoned me 2or 3 times and left a message.....

Am I wrong here but I think its just a really unnacceptable way to behave?

[p123]

So your dad and my grandmother are similar. I haven't been on the forum much the past couple of years. My grandmother is 97, still at home, self centered, fears abandonment, is manipulative, deceitful, a drama queen, complains constantly that no one helps her, and spends literally her entire day wondering when the next person is coming  over and what are they going to do for her. She only values people for what they do for her and has no interest in them as human beings. No respect for anyone's time. No ability to see beyond herself. When she gets into rehab she wants to be transferred to another Nursing home asap because they aren't servicing her fast enough. The entitlement is outrageous. When she doesn't get enough attention (narcissistic supply) she falls into narcissistic collapse which is basically her whining constantly, not feeling like eating, and basically acting like breathing is effort. She also likes to pretend she has dementia (she does not.) This usually leads to an ER stay then rehab. I have multiple people going in through two agencies, a friend of the family, her neighbors, a nephews wife (who replaces the last one who moved across the continent), and of course  me. And guess what? Still not enough. It's never enough. I'm in therapy and realizing wow I've been emotionally abused my entire life by this woman. Belittled, gaslighted, manipulated, guilt trips, lying. I found out recently she's been telling people for at least 5 years that I don't do enough for her. Underlying sentiment is that I'm no good. Now that she's very old she'll tell people right in front of me "she doesn't do anything for me" while I took time out of work to be there for her at that moment.
I'm pretty pissed off and tired of dealing with this but doing best I can to limit contact.  I do all the arranging of services for her but she chooses to believe her doctor does it. So be it. I even had a social worker try to explain to her all the effort I'm doing on her behalf and it fell on deaf ears. I told that social worker thanks for trying but you are wasting your breath. She is incapable of appreciating me or anyone else.
So they don't get better when they age. They get more manipulative, with no filter to even pretend to be nice anymore. She truly has alienated most people with her entitled selfish behavior.
Oh and I'm not 100% sure but I think she fakes illnesses or even an injury recently where she fell in the garage. Hit her head. She had been feeling particularly sad for herself that week (always sad for herself not anyone else) and I fully expected her to place herself on the floor or fall for attention soon then that happened. Maybe she did fall on accident, but wouldn't put it past her to do it on purpose. How sad we have to even think that about someone?
Oh and her son (who told me years ago she's my responsibility now because her house is in my name and he wanted it) is now in rehab himself with few visitors. I'm extremely limited in time I spend with him and am teaching my son who is in his 20's to set firm boundaries with his grandfather. No one should have to be treated like a servant and that's all we are to them.
On a bigger scale, I find their lack of empathy downright opposite to what I thought we as humans were supposed to be. Without empathy, the ability to love, have compassion, have a conscience, what sets us apart from any other animal species? I thought all humans had empathy and it's been a paradigm shift to accept many do not.
I wish I had advice for you beyond low contact, setting boundaries, having zero expectation to be treated like a human being, and therapy. No one who has not experienced a pd family member will ever understand what we go through.

That'll be my Dad when hes 97 too....

Yeh the fake injury thing. Hes done that. As with you, you can sometimes predict when something is going to happen.

Im going on holidays - he's ill the week before.
Not able to go an see him for a weeks - he's ill and has called the doctors out.
Hes a little ill - Fake injury to get himself into hospital.

[SunnyMeadow]

So your dad and my grandmother are similar. I haven't been on the forum much the past couple of years. My grandmother is 97, still at home, self centered, fears abandonment, is manipulative, deceitful, a drama queen, complains constantly that no one helps her, and spends literally her entire day wondering when the next person is coming  over and what are they going to do for her. She only values people for what they do for her and has no interest in them as human beings. No respect for anyone's time. No ability to see beyond herself. When she gets into rehab she wants to be transferred to another Nursing home asap because they aren't servicing her fast enough. The entitlement is outrageous. When she doesn't get enough attention (narcissistic supply) she falls into narcissistic collapse which is basically her whining constantly, not feeling like eating, and basically acting like breathing is effort. She also likes to pretend she has dementia (she does not.) This usually leads to an ER stay then rehab. I have multiple people going in through two agencies, a friend of the family, her neighbors, a nephews wife (who replaces the last one who moved across the continent), and of course  me. And guess what? Still not enough. It's never enough. I'm in therapy and realizing wow I've been emotionally abused my entire life by this woman. Belittled, gaslighted, manipulated, guilt trips, lying. I found out recently she's been telling people for at least 5 years that I don't do enough for her. Underlying sentiment is that I'm no good. Now that she's very old she'll tell people right in front of me "she doesn't do anything for me" while I took time out of work to be there for her at that moment.

This makes me angry on your behalf Adrianna! I'm glad you're in therapy but sad for the reason. It's disgusting that these disordered people treat us this way. I'm shocked to hear your grandmother is 97 and still at home, still manipulating everyone. I can see this in my future with my mother, she's in her mid 80's and still causing turmoil.

My mother told me in an email that I don't do enough for her and I visit with all these other people SO MUCH more. I don't but she's worked that up in her mind. The "all about me" and "woe is me" inside of them is staggering. I'm angry at myself that I'm usually not strong enough to tell her to stick it. But the last huge email about how awful of a daughter I am put her in a 4 month period of NC. Shocked the hell out of her. 

I get angry at myself that she can spew whatever she feels like to get her way but I'm too scared to tell her to shut up and back off. I'm getting stronger now that I have a stress related auto immune disease. I won't let her jeopardize my health anymore. She's done it for far too long. Now my life is about me and my immediate family and friends. The people who don't cause me any stress are the important ones in my life now. 

[Adrianna]

Last night we had another classic. Land line rings at 5pm. I always avoid answering at this time - 5pm is the time hes realised that I'm not coming to visit and despite me saying I'm busy his guilt trip has now worked that day. So conversation always goes along the lines of "oh so you didn;t visit. where have you been?" i.e. justify it lad and I'm going to make it as awkward as possible, followed by "so you're coming tomorrow?" - more guilt.

So I ignored it, 10 mins later my cell phone rings, then my land line again. No messages left. Used to this one as well - he never leaves a message. If he did, I'd know what he wanted and could make the choice whether to call, better for him to not let me know and keep ringing. Of course, then multiple calls make it look like its an emergency too!

This goes on for HOURS. 40 calls in 2 hours I see today. NO messages left. Eventually, I call him back. All it is hes had a scam phone call and hes WORRIED they're going to take his money. "Did you give them your bank details or anything?" No. SO WHY THE BIG DRAMA?

I told him this could have waited. (To be honest, if he'd have left a message I probably would have called back sooner!) NO I WAS WORRIED!!!! I WANTED TO SORT IT NOW!
In other words, this is what I want to do, and I'll phone you until I get hold of you.

Not happy. 40 CALLS!
If he'd been dying in hospital they'd probably have phoned me 2or 3 times and left a message.....

Am I wrong here but I think its just a really unnacceptable way to behave?

40 phone calls is harassment in my opinion. I don't know about you but I get a visceral reaction when I see her name on my phone. Even still after all these years of dealing with her.

Your dad isn't going to get better and will continue to put a huge strain on your marriage, your kids time with you, and your well-being.  I think you're in the UK? Here in US we have agencies that go in to help with housework, groceries, etc. My grandmother loves the attention all on her. No attention is ever too much. Classic narcissism. You may want to look into it.

[p123]

Well this week has turned into the worst ever with Dad.

I didn't visit him today (I said I was busy!) so I get the sarcastic "busy were you? doing what exactly?" Jeez just leave me alone will you.

It gets worse. I thought he'd forgotten about his birthday and his idea that my wife should ring him. Hes off again "So why didnt she ring me then?". I replied "Dad just leave it, don't worry about". Hes off "well I never see, she never does anything for me, I see her about once a year". I've no idea whats started this again. Hes obviously decided that this weekend is the time to up the pressure on me to visit, and also, my wife needs to know her place too.

I don't understand. They were never close anyway. Just a polite hello. Why on earth is he insisting she ring him and he sees her more? They've not even spoken for 18 months. He seems REALLY REALLY annoyed about it and won;t let it go.

It is, of course, hes got an idea in his head that she should respect him and ring him. Like I said, pay homage and "kiss the ring". Of course, shes refusing to do so and he doesnt like not getting his own way. I just dont get it. Isnt this narcisstic supply though? When he does things like this that make no sense it does confirm to me that hes got reasons for doing this.

I was off with him and told him that if she didnt want to ring him then thats the way it was. He got defensive then - as he does - hes careful not to upset me since I'm the main supplier! Said "oh its ok its not your fault!". As if thats ok then.

Jeez- I cant tell my wife what he said she'd explode!

He did say "I only see her xmas day". Ummm not this year. This is going to be a big battle.....

Im past caring. He is making me ill now. I can't sleep, I'm snappy with the family..... The way I feel at the moment I could just do without seeing him ever again.