acknowledging PD behavior without justifying or criticizing

[sevenyears]

** Admins - please move this if appropriate **

When parents divorce in the country I am living in, they have to take a one-off "mediation" in which we're told not to criticize the other parent - especially in front of the children, and that we should only speak positively about the other parent. Of course, when both parents are emotionally healthy, this works, even in times in which the parents disagree, or don't like things about the other parents. I find this challenging when it comes to dealing with a PD. (Not to mention, PDs have no qualms about criticizing and undermining the other parent in front of the children)

When it's normal parenting things, it's easy. Example:
DD: "Daddy won't let us drink coke." Me: "Daddy's house, daddy's rules." (and, unsaid: we don't drink coke either except on special occasions."

Then there are the grey areas. Example:
DD: "Daddy won't let me take baths; only showers, and the water is too cold." Me: "Have you asked him to make the water warmer?" DD: "Yes, but he says he doesn't want to waste energy." Me: "hhmmm....that sounds like daddy."  (Separately, kids and I have convos about when/how to assert our own needs/wants and when/how to respect those of others. We also have discussions about there is often more than one way to do things.)

Then there are the outright PD behaviors. Example:
DD: "Daddy is so angry." or "Daddy is always grumpy." Now I'm flummoxed. How can I respond that acknowledges her feelings without seeming to justify him, or criticize him?

[hhaw]

Validate dd's experience.

Ask her what she thinks about her father's behaviors.

How does it feel internally for her...where does the feeling show up in her body?  Can she put a number on it if it's very distressing?

If she's open to it....maybe walk her through some deep breathing and focus on being present, then check the somatic feelings in her body again.  Did the number change?

I'd do that again and again as long as she was getting relief or the distress went to 0.

Paying attention to breath, smells, what we see....shapes, colors....particularly peripheral vision is helpful, ime.

DD can't change her father, but she can learn how he affects her physically and emotionally.  She can learn to be mindful of, and relieve her distress.

She can learn to accept her father is broken.....or unreasonable....or whatever you feel appropriate to lable his disordered behaviors.  My children 's T chose the word "sick" to describe their father.

My T would stress focused non judgmental attention ( noticing what's going on without assigning good or bad lables)and huge self compassion and kindness.

DD's relationship with her father is just a story.  What's real is DD's reactivity or responses to him....the goal being to SEE with clarity the truth, accept it without judgment, to understand how her internal world is affected so she has the ability to respond rather than react.

DD is building brain pathways.  It would be amazing if she had a good EMDR T to explain what's going on and help DD build healthy coping strategies for a lifetime of Cows, ime.

Dd's disordered father is her crisis of the week (COW.)  DD can learn how to deal with all crisis through her relationship with PD, IMO.

Wouldn't that be an amazing silver lining for DD?

Just identifying what's true, without identifying it as bad or good, is an amazing skill any child would benefit from....WE benefit from, IME.

Perhaps it will save her from years of knee-jerk reactivity and trauma, even as it gives you both a new language for discussing the PD during this difficult time.

I think the judgment is what gets us in trouble when discussing PDs during litigation.

If we find a way to speak with compassion about the PD, and state truths without judgment......we learn how to be heard instead of punished by court officers, IME.

I'm pecking this out with one finger on my phone.  Sorry if lacks clarity.

[sevenyears]

HHaw - thank you. this advice is what I need to hear. You give such sage advice. Talking about feelings is not my strong point, to put it mildly. It's something I want to work on and do better at myself - and teach to my children. It sounds so obvious! But, it's something we don't do enough in our family and need to do. I'm not sure she will talk about her feelings yet in relation to her father, my Ex, but I will try it with her. And, I start with some easier situations. I'm not trying to focus on myself in this answer, but on learning/improving a skill so I can be a better mother to my kiddos and help them deal with PD's craziness.

[Free2Bme]

sevenyears,

hhaw is so right.   

I would add...

I'm not sure of the ages of your sweeties but anytime is a good time to talk (in age appropriate ways) about what a healthy person looks like (in terms of behavior) and what unhealthy looks like.  I try to point out things in every day life, examples are everywhere; school, playgroups, grocery stores, extended family, friends.  I think there is a way to make observations that are not passing judgment, but teach discernment.  From a 'meta' perspective.   

Even if children don't have a disordered parent, these are skills we should be developing in them.   The reality is our children will encounter other disordered people in life besides the disordered parent. We teach kids about 'Stranger Danger', bullies, date rape, drugs, etc.  however, we often forget they need to learn about unsafe people.  If it is framed in a 'general' sense, then it is not so much about 'your dad ...'.

I did this with my children, and especially my youngest post-divorce. One of the greatest gifts we can give our children is preparedness to navigate life in this world.   Children are capable of learning so much, if we make the most of teachable moments. 

~take care

[Penny Lane]

How about, "How do you feel when daddy gets angry?" And then validate that feeling. "I hear you that it's scary and you don't like it." I think even a "That sounds really hard, and I'm sorry you're dealing with it" can be OK in small doses.

I would err on the side of criticizing him rather than justifying his actions that you don't agree on. But I don't think, in that example, that you have to. You can be a neutral observer/listener whose job it is to draw out your DD's own thoughts and feelings. If she wants, you can help her brainstorm possible ways to handle it without telling her what is the right way and what is the wrong way.

Separately, it's never too early to work with them on their own emotional regulation. "You are very upset right now, and I see that and I'm sorry you're upset. But you cannot hit me so I need you to go take a break in your room until you can be kind to everyone else." And then only once she's calmed down, you can address the feelings and what she's upset about. This works better and better as the kids get older and have more capacity to control their actions.

And as the kids get older they'll see the difference in what you're teaching them - even if you're angry you can't be mean to others - and how their dad lives - terrible behavior is justified when he feels angry. And that will give them the tools to not only see that it's not OK for him to treat them badly when he's mad or grumpy, but WHY it's not OK.

[MSW2020]

It might be good to probe a bit about what "angry" means. This is where abuse might be starting to happen that we don't see. It's helpful to understand specific behaviors that are abusive, such as using physical expressions of anger to frighten others - like yelling, stomping, slamming things, pacing, etc. Kids may not explain the behaviors to us and it's not alienating to explain to children what threatening behavior is and that a threat is something that they need help with. Without criticizing the parent or even naming him, name the behaviors and prepare the child to ask for help if they occur in any situation with any adult (or child). Having a list of adult behaviors that kids need help with when they occur might help too. Very specific. Breaking dishes, slamming doors, throwing away prized possessions, refusing to allow kids to call their other parent, throwing things, lunging or raising a hand/fist in the child's direction, etc. If someone is threatening them, they need to call you, or text you, or be ready to call 911 if necessary. It's not ok for kids to fear their parent and to learn that love is fearing the other person's anger. This is especially important when the anger is blamed on the kids - dad is mad at the kid for something and then stomps and slams doors. That's physical intimidation and it's damaging. Kids need to be able to recognize it, identify what is happening, and get help. Even if it's not in the moment. If they can tell you about it and you can validate that the behavior is not ok, it's not the kids' fault, they don't deserve it, and if they feel scared they can call for help.
This behavior is also where young men/boys learn how to be a husband and father. If they identify with the father, they may pick up his behaviors and continue the cycle later in life (marriage/kids).

[sevenyears]

MSW - these are good suggestions. My kids are still young (8 and nearly 5), so they can't call me on their own. They have to use his phone/tablet. We talk about anger a lot and that hurting (hitting, scratching, biting) isn't ok. Those are the behaviors the kids use. Both also raise their fists like they are going to hit and DS4 periodically tries to provoke DD8 by throwing her security blanket in the trash. I don't know where it comes from. I will start talking about some of the other behaviors you mentioned, since the children do those, and XH used to do some of that as well. Something happened last week - I just don't know what. When DS4 was with me, he kept saying "want to hear something mean? I love you!" over and over and over again. Whenever I told him that love is supposed to make someone feel good inside, he told me it was something daddy says. Good lord!  He was also worried about the "haunted hour" at midnight, and both kids told me that it is ok to hit someone back when they try to hurt you (stranger danger).

The child welfare agency has started a psychological evaluation of DD8 for her anger issues (she is a foster kid, so social services are involved). UNOCPD XH was against it, but overridden by the agency. Hopefully, I'll know the results next month.