Practicing Change

[SonofThunder]

A difficult exercise, having been raised in the home of a PD parent, and decades married to a PD spouse, is throwing-away/donating items that belong to me or belonged to deceased relatives, that I will never use again, nor have any significant monetary or historical value.  These are items I have a right to re-home or scrap. 

Both of my PD's have a real problem throwing tangible items away, yet are frequent purchasers, as they are continuously unhappy with present pursuits and attempt to find joy in the next adventure.  Although, they both specialize in pretending and practicing devalue and discard in relationships.  I believe I have fleas in this 'collecting items' area, from extended exposure to my PD's and I desire to alter my habits. 

Having now removed myself from both PD's, its very clear to see that their devalue and discard manipulations are polar opposite from what they truly desire in their emotional selves.  When i properly protected myself and departed, they both displayed emotional collapse.  Therefore clear for me to see that my emotions were also hosting theirs. 

This week, i have started the process of donating and/or actually discarding perfectly good items that are unnecessary to keep.  I fully own and have the right to this activity.  I will not do this with items in which I do not fully possess the right.  I did not realize just how enjoyably-difficult this exercise can be, even though I am now living alone.  It conjures up feelings of being monitored, yet at the same time, is SO powerfully freeing.  If I attempted this exercise with a PD present, it would have quickly triggered PD drama triangle behaviors.  My PD's aren't excessive trash hoarders to a point that it would be noticeable to outsiders, but at the same time, both my PD's always desired bigger homes and when achieving that bar-raise with my work, seemed to fill every new room with 'stuff'.  More 'stuff'.

I am on a goal of one kitchen sized trash bag of items per week; both donating to a charitable reseller and the dumpster. I am taking this one room at a time and looking forward to the end result in steady time.  Any items larger than a kitchen sized bag, will be noted for donation/trash and handled afterward in a second round. 

Im enjoying this activity SO very much, and am very high-radar mindful about the mixed feelings I am having, yet fully realizing i am FREE!   I want to recommend this activity to my Out of the FOG friends who can begin this process without the monitoring of their PD.  Enjoy! 

SoT

[treesgrowslowly]

SoT,

Fantastic! I hope you keep us posted on how you feel as the room becomes changed... after you have gone through it and taken out the items you are removing.

A lot of PDs have a very toxic relationship with stuff in my experience. Throughout my years I was told to 'toss' items I liked / wanted to keep. And at other times, I was told "oh you can't toss that" - trying to control what I was allowed to keep or toss was a common 'fun' activity for them... Looking back now, it was all gaslighting and manipulation. If there was an item that I valued, I could be sure that my PD parents would devalue it on purpose, and vice versa. That is a terrible way to live.

Like you said, living through the experiences with PDs can really affect how we end up sorting out stuff in our own homes.

Very happy to hear that you are taking out items you want to remove from your space. Keep us posted on the progress!

Trees

[Pepin]

SoT this is an amazing and healing step for you to take.  What is the purpose of living amongst "things" that don't bring us joy or that may trigger a memory we'd rather not have?  With the cleaning out of CN MIL's home after her death, I realized that I could do the same at our home (the home I share with DH) as well.  If something isn't being used, it has to go.  Interestingly.....a number of the objects that CN MIL passed on to us, are objects that she herself never used or did not use on a regular basis.  They are effectively unpractical - what is the point in keeping them?  I have been going through our house cleaning out overlooked areas and questioning everything we have and if it is useful.  Our home is small and therefore cannot be treated like a storage unit.  CN MIL's home was both a storage unit and trash receptacle.....and it was actually quite sad to realize that many things she had could have been passed on earlier to those in need rather than falling apart and becoming unusable.  Putting in the work now to clear out the clutter in my opinion really brings about a different level of awareness.  I certainly do not want to leave a mess for my adult children to clean up or even DH should I predecease him. 

I went NC with NF many years ago and it was common practice for me to dispose of anything that reminded me of him or anything that he had gifted me.  It was therapeutic to donate or even smash/trash some of it.  It hadn't ever occurred to me that I could do the same with CN MIL's items that she had gifted me or passed along to DH that he does nothing with -- he is not attached to kitchen wares or decorative objects. 

Power to you SoT! 

[Poison Ivy]

This post motivated me to throw away some stuff. I don't like to discard things that might still be useful, but I hate the feeling that I might be hoarding. (My ex hoards and his parents did too.) After I finish this reply, I will throw away two or three meal trays that my ex stole many years ago from a university cafeteria.

[square]

It's another form of healthy boundaries. My stuff, not my stuff, stuff I want/need, stuff I don't, stuff that adds to my life, stuff that subtracts.

[SonofThunder]

I gathered about two tall kitchen trash bags quantity of items today.  Some for trash and some to charity.  Im a very organized person by nature/nurture and definitely not a hoarder nor a minimalist.  Minimalist would be a great goal, but I have too many facets to my life from multiple hobbies to multiple businesses.  So rather, im calling it a 'grand-simplification'. 

It was an interesting and rewarding experience and I look forward to daily progress.  It was also a great exercise for me to practice very high-radar mindfulness, as many emotions and senses were involved.  Some items were very much a mental wrestling and I had to common-sense talk myself out of keeping the item 😂.  Many of the items throughout my residence that will be earmarked to leave, are either outdated or excess items, but useful items from past endeavors.  Some are actually family history items and they keep getting passed along.  No resell value worth my effort to these family items, and i surely don't want to burden my adult children with an emotional decision to keep/discard upon my death.  So, imo, its actually a loving process of mine to do this now, as I'm reducing someones burden later. 

Not going to be hugely noticeable when I'm through, but so much simpler and easier when I dust my residence. I may be able to reduce or rearrange some furniture because of the process.  I believe it will be a good project during my life-changing, current divorce process and will complement my other life changes being made.  Im certain i will toss something i haven't used in years....only to need it a week later 🤣

Thanks to all for the feedback and discussion thus far.

SoT

[Jolie40]

SOT

I have been doing this in the summer & at Halloween

we put a table out with the Halloween candy on one side & other side with items & Free sign
I put out 25 items this year & was happy that 15 were taken

in summer if someone has an advertised garage sale, I put out the table again marked free
it's not worth the time to try to sell anything
we also donate to goodwill but I like to "see" people take our stuff

[Associate of Daniel]

SoT, there is a large number of YouTube channels which cover minimalism and cleaning systems.  I became quite addicted to them for a while!

The Fly Lady Cleaning System says that you can't clean clutter.

Erica Lucas calls herself "minimalish" rather than "minimalist". 

It sounds like you are on a similar path.

And yes, getting rid of stuff, particularly stuff that is a reminder of our uNPDs is very, very freeing!

Enjoy the journey!

AOD

[escapingman]

This is a difficult one and I am still undecided about what to do with all stuff in the house, basically it is all STBX items as she bought everything without my input and most of the items although they are shared are not anything I want. For example, she buys new ornaments on a regular basis, and put the old one in a box to store in case she wants to display again. There are ornaments from almost 20 years ago just taking all space in wardrobes, under the beds, cup boards, kitchen cup boards, garage you name it. There are a broken kettle, that replaed the other broken kettle in one cup board in case the new one would break and we need to boil water before buying a new one (highly unlikely with a broken kettle, and definitely not 2). There are wardrobes full of paper, manuals, documents, old and new. I can for example find a manual for an old Nokia 3310 if I go through the papers. Ok I am bad with old cables, and don't like to throw away electronics that still work, but she doesn't get rid of the manuals.

To get onto the subject, I think I need to get started and do 3 piles, one for my stuff I want to keep, one that I consider hers to do what she likes with and a third for things that should go straight to the dump or charity. But it is hard to get going with this as I have had no say in what stays or goes in the past.

Well done SoT and thanks for starting this discussion.

[Poison Ivy]

escapingman, I have been divorced for more than 6 years, my ex abandoned me and household matters even longer ago, and I still sometimes get mad when I think about the things (some of value, much junk) he left at the house. One thing that helped me was acknowledging that dealing with the stuff was not necessarily easy and that I had a right to be proud of myself for dealing with the stuff. (I will spare everyone here a reprise of the tale of the tires I found buried in the backyard.)

[escapingman]

escapingman, I have been divorced for more than 6 years, my ex abandoned me and household matters even longer ago, and I still sometimes get mad when I think about the things (some of value, much junk) he left at the house. One thing that helped me was acknowledging that dealing with the stuff was not necessarily easy and that I had a right to be proud of myself for dealing with the stuff. (I will spare everyone here a reprise of the tale of the tires I found buried in the backyard.)

I think I need to change my mindset of waiting until we reach an agreement before starting the next phase as this likely could take years with me and DD stuck in the house. STBX is crying to everyone how she need the house to be sold and her being able to get a home of her own, but she has zero interest of coming to any agreement. I am seriously consider packing all her stuff up in boxes and then drive round and put them on the drive of where she is currently staying. It would be so therapeutic to get rid of all her items and just start over with my own and new stuff.

[JustKeepTrying]

I am facing a double garage of stuff.   I walk through it and just  can't face it.  This post is a good reminder that if I face it -  it could be freeing.  With each item I will be breaking from my past  - embracing my future. Really looking at what I want.  Thanks for the nudge  SOT

EM -  Do it.

[bloomie]

Both of my PD's have a real problem throwing tangible items away, yet are frequent purchasers, as they are continuously unhappy with present pursuits and attempt to find joy in the next adventure.  Although, they both specialize in pretending and practicing devalue and discard in relationships.  I believe I have fleas in this 'collecting items' area, from extended exposure to my PD's and I desire to alter my habits.

This is very insightful, SOT. I really like the way you titled this process: Practicing Change! That is a helpful way to keep your goals in mind as you work through the emotions this brings up.

Having now removed myself from both PD's, its very clear to see that their devalue and discard manipulations are polar opposite from what they truly desire in their emotional selves.  When i properly protected myself and departed, they both displayed emotional collapse.  Therefore clear for me to see that my emotions were also hosting theirs.

One part of the devalue/discard cycle I have experienced is something I think of as the boomerang which is why - it is so very hard to get rid of anything. Because, in my own case with the uPD folks in my family, they may want it back or find they have use for it someday. Just like me. They may find they want me back or have use for me someday. It is the definition of objectification.

And yes, we have lived it, bought into it to some degree, and been immersed in relationships with others who seem to have little ability to rightly discern the fundamental difference between objects and people. Our stabilizing presence goes unrecognized, unappreciated, dishonored, and devalued, until it is gone or until they find a 'new' better version to fill that void.

[Jolie40]

One part of the devalue/discard cycle I have experienced is something I think of as the boomerang which is why - it is so very hard to get rid of anything. Because, in my own case with the uPD folks in my family, they may want it back or find they have use for it

PD parent was a collector of cups/saucers, fancy plates on the wall, & expensive collector breakable "dolls"
one day, she asked me which ones I wanted & whatever I said answer was "that goes to sibling"
so why even ask me? it was a reminder that I'm SG

when house was sold, sibling-in-charge gave us some things according to will
I had said that I didn't want the "white one" but guess what was willed to me

during my summer "give away for free" everything I received went on the free table
so neighbors got some expensive items as I sure didn't want anything from PD parent since she just couldn't or wouldn't give me anything I liked

[SonofThunder]

Both of my PD's have a real problem throwing tangible items away, yet are frequent purchasers, as they are continuously unhappy with present pursuits and attempt to find joy in the next adventure.  Although, they both specialize in pretending and practicing devalue and discard in relationships.  I believe I have fleas in this 'collecting items' area, from extended exposure to my PD's and I desire to alter my habits.

This is very insightful, SOT. I really like the way you titled this process: Practicing Change! That is a helpful way to keep your goals in mind as you work through the emotions this brings up.

Having now removed myself from both PD's, its very clear to see that their devalue and discard manipulations are polar opposite from what they truly desire in their emotional selves.  When i properly protected myself and departed, they both displayed emotional collapse.  Therefore clear for me to see that my emotions were also hosting theirs.

One part of the devalue/discard cycle I have experienced is something I think of as the boomerang which is why - it is so very hard to get rid of anything. Because, in my own case with the uPD folks in my family, they may want it back or find they have use for it someday. Just like me. They may find they want me back or have use for me someday. It is the definition of objectification.

And yes, we have lived it, bought into it to some degree, and been immersed in relationships with others who seem to have little ability to rightly discern the fundamental difference between objects and people. Our stabilizing presence goes unrecognized, unappreciated, dishonored, and devalued, until it is gone or until they find a 'new' better version to fill that void.

Bloomie, the boomerang analogy and objectification comments are very insightful. I am keeping track of my own mental struggle-process in releasing ownership/control of some items in which remain unused for some time, yet my mind says "what if...?"  Im working through those feelings, being rational and moving those items into the departure area. 

As much as I loathe PD traits, I cant truly imagine the very deep despair PD's must experience in losing control of physical objects and humans that hold their emotional puzzle together.  I will not be that puzzle person any longer, but im truly sorry that PD's experience the depths of despair.

The toolbox will keep me moving forward in these struggles, making these steady 'practicing change'  improvements for myself.   

SoT

[SonofThunder]

SoT, there is a large number of YouTube channels which cover minimalism and cleaning systems.  I became quite addicted to them for a while!

The Fly Lady Cleaning System says that you can't clean clutter.

Erica Lucas calls herself "minimalish" rather than "minimalist". 

It sounds like you are on a similar path.

And yes, getting rid of stuff, particularly stuff that is a reminder of our uNPDs is very, very freeing!

Enjoy the journey!

AOD

Thanks for the info AOD! 

SoT

[SonofThunder]

This is a difficult one and I am still undecided about what to do with all stuff in the house, basically it is all STBX items as she bought everything without my input and most of the items although they are shared are not anything I want. For example, she buys new ornaments on a regular basis, and put the old one in a box to store in case she wants to display again. There are ornaments from almost 20 years ago just taking all space in wardrobes, under the beds, cup boards, kitchen cup boards, garage you name it. There are a broken kettle, that replaed the other broken kettle in one cup board in case the new one would break and we need to boil water before buying a new one (highly unlikely with a broken kettle, and definitely not 2). There are wardrobes full of paper, manuals, documents, old and new. I can for example find a manual for an old Nokia 3310 if I go through the papers. Ok I am bad with old cables, and don't like to throw away electronics that still work, but she doesn't get rid of the manuals.

To get onto the subject, I think I need to get started and do 3 piles, one for my stuff I want to keep, one that I consider hers to do what she likes with and a third for things that should go straight to the dump or charity. But it is hard to get going with this as I have had no say in what stays or goes in the past.

Well done SoT and thanks for starting this discussion.

I wish you strength and persistence EM.  Doing a little each day or every other is my steady goal.  Less frequent and I will procrastinate. 

SoT

[SonofThunder]

I am facing a double garage of stuff.   I walk through it and just  can't face it.  This post is a good reminder that if I face it -  it could be freeing.  With each item I will be breaking from my past  - embracing my future. Really looking at what I want.  Thanks for the nudge  SOT

EM -  Do it.

It has been both difficult but freeing indeed!  Doing a small amount each day keeps me from feeling burdened by the task, but rather a purposeful way to practice my mindfulness exercises.  I get all the senses involved with these items and then try and make rational decisions.  Im not making angry or even spiteful decisions, but rather practical. 

Dropping a bag at the charity drop-off and/or watching the trash bag being hauled away, is a release. That release is also a restart button to do it once again.  Cleanse and repeat. 

SoT

[losingmyself]

I have been proactively cleaning up clutter and mess in my home. I am looking forward to the day that I can rent a large container and throw away so much junk that H has collected over the years.
I cleaned a corner of my dining room last weekend, and I very much enjoy just standing in the cleaned out space, anticipating the next room I will tackle. It feels so good to remove junk. Even if right now it's just getting put into boxes and stored in the basement!

[SonofThunder]

I have been proactively cleaning up clutter and mess in my home. I am looking forward to the day that I can rent a large container and throw away so much junk that H has collected over the years.
I cleaned a corner of my dining room last weekend, and I very much enjoy just standing in the cleaned out space, anticipating the next room I will tackle. It feels so good to remove junk. Even if right now it's just getting put into boxes and stored in the basement!

🤜🏼

SoT