A cautionary tale - dont give in and be the "doer"

[p123]

Dad lives in a flat. The cover fell off the outside light - hardly an earth shattering event. "Can you phone them?"
"No but you can".

This went on for weeks. In the end, I agreed to log it online as long as he didnt phone me every day for an update.
Yep 2 days later "why havent they dont it?" Jeez. I aint got time to chase them up. WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!

4 days later and I'm getting "But its playing on my mind now, its making me all anxious". You what? A broken plastic light cover......... Wish that was all I had to worry about....
Blocked his number now - I don't have the time or patience for a daily rant about a damn light cover.

So one simple thing is now turned into a major drama....

Moral of the story - don't give in, leave them alone to run their own dramas.

[NarcKiddo]

I mean this in the kindest possible way, p123, but you do know how to make a rod for your own back.

I've fallen into that trap, too, believe me. Many times. "One simple thing" is NEVER one simple thing. I cannot bear the question "will you do me a favour?" from anyone, even someone I can trust to be reasonable, and will always ask precisely what that favour is before agreeing.

[nanotech]

It's entirely your dad's choice- to feel anxious about something unfixed.
That's his decision.
My dad tried always to limit what I did, to get me to be as unadventurous as possible.
He'd say ' Don't do x. If you do, I'm going to WORRY.'
As soon as you got involved in 'fixing' it for him,  ( I know it seems like it will end if we act for them but it never does)
he tried to make you responsible for his feelings.
You've registered it and that's that.  I'm afraid the threat of 'getting  anxious' or 'concerned' is a cover for toxic abuse.  You're right to block him. That's an effective boundary.

[Cat of the Canals]

My dad tried always to limit what I did, to get me to be as unadventurous as possible.
He'd say ' Don't do x. If you do, I'm going to WORRY.'

It's perfectly reasonable, the next time he says "BUT I'M ANXIOUS ABOUT XYZ!!!," to tell him that HIS anxiety is HIS to manage. It is not your problem. And it is certainly not an excuse for him to continuously harass you. (Not that any of it will sink in.)

Blocking him was the best move, and I think you've earned yourself a pat on the back for coming so far in setting boundaries with him.

[square]

"Time to pull up your socks."

[p123]

I mean this in the kindest possible way, p123, but you do know how to make a rod for your own back.

I've fallen into that trap, too, believe me. Many times. "One simple thing" is NEVER one simple thing. I cannot bear the question "will you do me a favour?" from anyone, even someone I can trust to be reasonable, and will always ask precisely what that favour is before agreeing.

I know I know I know - I held off for weeks too!

[p123]

It's entirely your dad's choice- to feel anxious about something unfixed.
That's his decision.
My dad tried always to limit what I did, to get me to be as unadventurous as possible.
He'd say ' Don't do x. If you do, I'm going to WORRY.'
As soon as you got involved in 'fixing' it for him,  ( I know it seems like it will end if we act for them but it never does)
he tried to make you responsible for his feelings.
You've registered it and that's that.  I'm afraid the threat of 'getting  anxious' or 'concerned' is a cover for toxic abuse.  You're right to block him. That's an effective boundary.

He thinks thats his trump card. He tells me "its playing on my mind" and think that means I've got to do it now.

[p123]

My dad tried always to limit what I did, to get me to be as unadventurous as possible.
He'd say ' Don't do x. If you do, I'm going to WORRY.'

It's perfectly reasonable, the next time he says "BUT I'M ANXIOUS ABOUT XYZ!!!," to tell him that HIS anxiety is HIS to manage. It is not your problem. And it is certainly not an excuse for him to continuously harass you. (Not that any of it will sink in.)

Blocking him was the best move, and I think you've earned yourself a pat on the back for coming so far in setting boundaries with him.

Im pretty sure he has got an anxiety problem to be honest. Many times I've said he needs to go to the GP and talk to someone but he refuses.

As per the comment below, hes a "pull your socks up" signed up member.

[nanotech]

My dad tried always to limit what I did, to get me to be as unadventurous as possible.
He'd say ' Don't do x. If you do, I'm going to WORRY.'

It's perfectly reasonable, the next time he says "BUT I'M ANXIOUS ABOUT XYZ!!!," to tell him that HIS anxiety is HIS to manage. It is not your problem. And it is certainly not an excuse for him to continuously harass you. (Not that any of it will sink in.)

Blocking him was the best move, and I think you've earned yourself a pat on the back for coming so far in setting boundaries with him.

Im pretty sure he has got an anxiety problem to be honest. Many times I've said he needs to go to the GP and talk to someone but he refuses.

As per the comment below, hes a "pull your socks up" signed up member.

Their actual feelings can be very real to them. I think the anxiety is to do with old age and fear of death. They try to reestablish a sense of  their younger status, when they were in charge of us, to counter this.
With my dad, it comes from his perceived loss of control of family and therefore of his status. and it translates into health anxiety, usually culminating in a trip to A&E and an enjoyment of family swarming around him.  Nothing was ever wrong with him. At least not so far. But he knows he's in a dodgy age bracket, and he can't accept it. He needs ongoing reassurance from health professionals that he's glorious and excellent health wise, that somehow old age isn't touching him as it touches others.   I know your dad  has health anxiety too. They just dislike being old. Old equals vulnerable, and they can't hack it. My dad has to still feel like he is top dog' and in his prime.
The bravest thing  most functional old folk do, is accept their old age, accept the changes it brings, face their vulnerability and adjust. It's hard for everyone. It involves dropping the ego, which of course PDs are unable to do.
So yes the anxiety is real, but it ain't straightforward, it ain't about the light cover.

[p123]

My dad tried always to limit what I did, to get me to be as unadventurous as possible.
He'd say ' Don't do x. If you do, I'm going to WORRY.'

It's perfectly reasonable, the next time he says "BUT I'M ANXIOUS ABOUT XYZ!!!," to tell him that HIS anxiety is HIS to manage. It is not your problem. And it is certainly not an excuse for him to continuously harass you. (Not that any of it will sink in.)

Blocking him was the best move, and I think you've earned yourself a pat on the back for coming so far in setting boundaries with him.

Im pretty sure he has got an anxiety problem to be honest. Many times I've said he needs to go to the GP and talk to someone but he refuses.

As per the comment below, hes a "pull your socks up" signed up member.

Their actual feelings can be very real to them. I think the anxiety is to do with old age and fear of death. They try to reestablish a sense of  their younger status, when they were in charge of us, to counter this.
With my dad, it comes from his perceived loss of control of family and therefore of his status. and it translates into health anxiety, usually culminating in a trip to A&E and an enjoyment of family swarming around him.  Nothing was ever wrong with him. At least not so far. But he knows he's in a dodgy age bracket, and he can't accept it. He needs ongoing reassurance from health professionals that he's glorious and excellent health wise, that somehow old age isn't touching him as it touches others.   I know your dad  has health anxiety too. They just dislike being old. Old equals vulnerable, and they can't hack it. My dad has to still feel like he is top dog' and in his prime.
The bravest thing  most functional old folk do, is accept their old age, accept the changes it brings, face their vulnerability and adjust. It's hard for everyone. It involves dropping the ego, which of course PDs are unable to do.
So yes the anxiety is real, but it ain't straightforward, it ain't about the light cover.

Yeh with you on that. Our Dads are very similar.......

I've tried to get him to talk to someone or go to the GP. Nope flat refusal.

[nanotech]

I haven't bothered suggesting GP or therapy to my dad. He'll never see it, ever. Lot of self denial goes on. They gaslight themselves.
He's like your dad, he just doesn't see himself in that category. My dad is  terribly dismissive of therapists. It's a shame really. He'd benefit so much from talking therapy. He had a difficult childhood, one which developed the narcissistic traits. I'm convinced he had to develop a false self in order to survive. He'd never even see his mother as anything less than perfect, let alone talk about it. She was extremely narcissistic.
The best way to counter is with boundaries.

[p123]

I haven't bothered suggesting GP or therapy to my dad. He'll never see it, ever. Lot of self denial goes on. They gaslight themselves.
He's like your dad, he just doesn't see himself in that category. My dad is  terribly dismissive of therapists. It's a shame really. He'd benefit so much from talking therapy. He had a difficult childhood, one which developed the narcissistic traits. I'm convinced he had to develop a false self in order to survive. He'd never even see his mother as anything less than perfect, let alone talk about it. She was extremely narcissistic.
The best way to counter is with boundaries.

Yeh my Dads the same. Knows it all. Values left over from the 50s too because "it was right back in the day".

Current argument is about my job. I told him to shut it last night because he goes on and on about the same damn thing. He keeps saying "you shouldn't go on holidays in a few weeks, you've just had a long weekend, you're boss won't be happy with you!". About 6 times now.....

I mean he's been retired 30 years, and he worked in a factory. I'm self employed IT consultant its a bit different. Even working in an office you get allocated leave and pretty much take it whenever. But he doesn't get it. Its even more different for me I just tell my client Im not available these dates and as long as its not causing them a problem thats it.
But no hes got to go on "so did you're boss say its ok?" "Better check again". Jeez shut up.

His best work one was when he came up with "so is your boss happy with your work?" Umm well I'm still there and they're paying me. But no I don't actually go and check and show people what I've done. He went on about that for ages "you need to speak to your boss and get him to check your work so you know they're happy with you!". (my "boss" ie client manager is non-technical so would be clueless.

I did try to explain to him that would a consultant in a hospital go and speak to the hospital manager and show him the operations hes done. "Well no because a hospital consultant is important and you're not a consultant". Cheers for that.... Im sure he thinks Im the office tea boy sometimes....

I mean why does he feel the need to have an opinion on it? I'm 54 years of age and have worked in IT for 33+ years. Im sure I can manage my dealings without his help!

[hhaw]

You care what your father thinks and believes....
you want to gain his understanding and approval.

That's the problem, p. 

Your father will never understand and even if he did, he keeps your attention with all his confusion and insistence he's right and you're wrong.

Let it go.  Let him have it.  Don't keep trying to convince him, bc he's ever going to.

Give up hope and accept that's reality, no matter what you say or do or how many times you say and do it.

That pattern has never worked and never will.  It's OK to give up hope and let it be.

[p123]

You care what your father thinks and believes....
you want to gain his understanding and approval.

That's the problem, p. 

Your father will never understand and even if he did, he keeps your attention with all his confusion and insistence he's right and you're wrong.

Let it go.  Let him have it.  Don't keep trying to convince him, bc he's ever going to.

Give up hope and accept that's reality, no matter what you say or do or how many times you say and do it.

That pattern has never worked and never will.  It's OK to give up hope and let it be.

Yeh its been a long journey.... Trouble is as I try to distance he ups the game.

[NarcKiddo]

Yeh its been a long journey.... Trouble is as I try to distance he ups the game.

Of course he does. He will be aware of (whether consciously or not) your withdrawal and this will not be welcome.

hhaw is right. Now, letting go is really hard, and you can't manufacture not caring about what they think. Especially when it's a parent as we would generally like to have their approval. But it can be done, little by little.

What has unexpectedly helped me is to find out about the theory of transactional analysis (my therapist mentioned it). Here's some info - there's loads more online
https://affinitycentre.co.uk/transactional-analysis-theory-explained/

I find it helpful to analyse when someone I am dealing with is in adult state or if they are in parent or child state and I am responding by coming out of adult state. It sounds a bit weird, but just taking a step back to think about this has been remarkably helpful to me. So I'm sharing in case it helps you.

[p123]

Yeh its been a long journey.... Trouble is as I try to distance he ups the game.

Of course he does. He will be aware of (whether consciously or not) your withdrawal and this will not be welcome.

hhaw is right. Now, letting go is really hard, and you can't manufacture not caring about what they think. Especially when it's a parent as we would generally like to have their approval. But it can be done, little by little.

What has unexpectedly helped me is to find out about the theory of transactional analysis (my therapist mentioned it). Here's some info - there's loads more online
https://affinitycentre.co.uk/transactional-analysis-theory-explained/

I find it helpful to analyse when someone I am dealing with is in adult state or if they are in parent or child state and I am responding by coming out of adult state. It sounds a bit weird, but just taking a step back to think about this has been remarkably helpful to me. So I'm sharing in case it helps you.

thanks nk

[hhaw]

My experience of "letting go" has taken more and less time and effort to achieve with many particular traumas in my life..... the AIT ADVANCED INTEGRATIVE THERAPY was something my T used more recently with me, so I can compare it to other very successful  therapies like tapping, EMDR and memory reconsolidation, which required more time and going over the trauma, but only for a matter of minutes....not hours or days, certainly.  Still...... the AIT worked like shorthand, efficient, quick, less stressful and to great affect.


p123, your distress is the ONLY thing you can do something about.  You can't change your father or the disordered way he's learned to deal with his distress.   Likely, his childhood had trauma creating these sabotaging patterns and that's his to deal iwth now.  It doesn't have to be yours.

I'm very happy with a very recent AIT processing session so I'll just keep expanding on it here.

I've experienced relief with all the above referenced therapies BUT the AIT is far and away superior and the least stressful to access and utilize.... at least for me and for my T with the work she's done in her own therapy sessions.  My  T is giddy about it.which is saying something, bc she;s as steady a human as I've ever encountered.

In the beginning of T though....

I'll admit, facing the trauma, finding a good therapist and forcing myself to focus on the pain was NOT EASY.  Humans are programed to avoid pain and discomfort...... typically one lives from distraction to distraction to avoid feeling difficult things and that's just the normal state of things.  I've seen a whole bunch of bad to devastatingly harmful Ts over the years.  They didn't keep me from finding the right T, thank God.

In order to relieve the suffering, one turns, faces it, drops all judgment around the suffering and just EVERYTHING, puts down expectation and becomes very curious about what's behind it...... then tends to it, with tsunamis of self compassion, in order to process and lay it to rest which is processing it out of the limbic system so it's no longer overlaying evrything we see and do, like a template over our vision and Nervous Systems, IME.

Before processing the worst of the emotional charges in my Nervous System, it felt like my history was tapping me on the shoulder all the time, taking my attention and focus off what's in front of me, drawing me back INTO BEING PRESENT during the original trauma..... my biochemistry was hijacked and I WAS IN THOSE MOMENTS OF CRISIS and survival as far as my brain and body knew and it was often daily.  If I'm honest, I was LIVING in crisis all the time, daily and I had an understanding but thinking about it just escalated the worry and fight or flight reaction.  Living in that place, where my fists went up as I approached stairs and the left side of my body grew into a left side front fighting stance in bone, muscle and tedon, even as I drove..... I lost my peripheral vision FOR YEARS then had to figure out why I kept seeing things out of the corner of my vision, which startled me ALL THE TIME until I figured out I'd lost my peripheral vision then had it restored without understanding then acclimate myself to having it restored.  It feels like coming up from sea bottom..... one adjusts to the changes in pressures on the body and system, IME.  WITHOUT processing the trauma, there was a boomerang effect when the trauma was calmed then reactivated over and over, driving it deeper into my system and making me more sensitive and reactive each time I calmed myself down then experienced the trauma, bc I didn't KNOW HOW to calm my brain down to process the trauma OUT of my brain and body once and for all.  The wrong therapists extend this period and make one feel helpless and like a failure, IME.

The right T actually helps one learn to process the trauma OUT of the brain and body for good, which seems like something most T aren't even aware of, IME.

Once I had peripheral vision restored, driving became less traumatic... my neck no longer ached bc I didn't have to turn my head so far to see behind and to the sides.  THIS happened towards the beginning of my therapy sessions so I can honestly say the brain and body ARE absolutely connected in ways we aren't aware of during times of crisis and trauma when our frontal cortex is shut down and we're working with our most primitive (reptilian) brains...... survival mode means we lose access to logic, reason and creative problem solving skills BUT ALSO we lose access to choice.

Trauma Informed Therapy is about widening our window of resilience, learning and discerning what new coping strategies are comfortable and effective for us AND practicing them over and over, without judging ourselves when we forget or get swept into fight or flight again,bc that's how it works.  We're practicing and practice builds new brain pathways and remembering them is about creating a split second of time BEFORE we're swept away by reactivity which is our brain choosing old default pathways made lightening fast by thick coatings of white fat called myelin. 

This myelin sheath can be transferred from the old reactive brain pathways to the new pathways we use when we're able to mindfully respond and be responsive, which means we avoid the chemical dump and biochemical hijack dumping us into reactivity and old patterns before we're able to notice.

We cultivate mindfulness, become aware of our inner world in order to catch ourselves BEFORE reactivity takes over, which is EVEryTHING.

It restores choice and maybe we choose to have a moment...... go down the reactive rabbit hole or two, but we're learning how to choose and NOT go down those holes, which gets easier as we practice and build new patterns and pathways as default settings.

Sometimes I DO choose to get upset, but I get over it more quickly, see the value in restored logic and reason then get back on track more quickly and with economy of motion....... my life improves as I widdle away the reactivity.  Sometimes I put a timer on any worrying or rumination I choose to have.  Usually it's no longer than 10 minutes.

My relationships improve as I resist reactivity..... getting swept up by loved one's upset and distress, experiencing their distress WITH THEM renders me incapable of being responsive an responding in the best possible way to help them while remaining level.  I learned I can be OK when my loved ones are suffering..... and it's OK to do so. 

p123 think about researching codependence with regard to your relationship with your Father.   It might really help and you will likely identify many familiar patterns.  Identifying the patterns is where one begins, IME..... my therapist calls it resting in awareness without judgment or expectation.  The willingness to embrace acceptance, whatever it is, without needing it to be different was new territory for me, but I dug in and focused and felt better. 

I didn't find working through trauma took that much time, particularly with an experienced trauma informed T.  The braver I was, the more willing I became to turn toward the pain the more quickly I was through it and out of it, free, restoring original factory settings in my brain, joy and choice to my life.  The more I trusted my T, the more quickly I moved through and processed and very often a session was all I needed to process out major traumatic events and also what my T called the nodes..... things attached to the trauma.  It's amazing to go from a 10 suffering to a 0 in under an hour and never experience stress around that trauma again.  It just..... goes and doesn't come back, IME.  Sometims there's more work to be done, around it or about something that requires a session all on it's own, but it's quick, IME. 

Our brains process information every second of every day.... easily.  Brains are amazing and built to DO that.

It's the trauma and survival brain shut down that prevents processing, bc it shuts down the higher thinking frontal cortex which is required for processing the difficult feelings.

It's EASY and all our brains need is a chance. A split second is all it takes to process and what we do to set up that moment can take more or less time.   

I'm always going to vote for LESS suffering in all things, bc.....
human.

AIT, Advanced Integrative Therapy is similar to tapping, but utilizes deeper, more comprehensive systems..... if trauma is stored energy in brain and body, then utilizing the central energy centers in the body is more efficient than using smaller points and that's all I needed to know to get the job done and Im practicing at home, on my own, to reset my brain as needed.

Tapping has been proven and is used by mainstream doctors and therapists..... the data is there.  AIT works on the same pricipals, but more efficiently and comprehensively, IME. 

If I can do it, anyone can.