Xmas my favourite time of the year - NOT!

[nanotech]

Perfect example of when you do something for them and while doing so they point out all that is wrong/ inadequate about it.

I should have written;

"Perfect example of when you do something for them and while doing so they point out all that THEY have decided is wrong/ inadequate about it. "

I think it's quite interesting that I made this error which I only noticed on re-reading the post  24 hours later. I think it's cognitive dissonance. We know, on an intellectual level, that the criticism is illogical and inaccurate, yet there's some unconscious stuff going on. Subconsciously, and before our adult brains can properly deconstruct the moment, we respond emotionally, as powerless children, and we believe them.

In turn, the work we've done on ourselves  help us to perceive the toxicity. We may even robustly tell them why/ how they are mistaken about their situation and about us. That sort of appeal to their logic gets discarded. They prefer their narrative, the one which controls us and so delivers supply.
Our being aware of the wrongness of it all doesn't  protect us from the feelings of hurt and rejection we have. These are the responses we have been taught to feel, enabled by the conditioning we were subjected to as children.

This is what we're up against.

I'm VVLC with my UNPDdad because of this.
NC with UNPDSis. 
I never go and see dad on my own, always with my husband. He behaves better for most of the visit.
I know that's a tricky one for you to take your wife. But if not, then keep the visit shorter and don't do any extra errands. Just say you can't and then  leave with a cheery smile.

[p123]

p123:

How does your brother deal with your dad?

Lot easier for him, he lives a mile away and has no kids (that he looks after). So he does go up or send his wife (who doesnt work).

But he lies to Dad a LOT and makes excuses.

[p123]

Perfect example of when you do something for them and while doing so they point out all that is wrong/ inadequate about it.

I should have written;

"Perfect example of when you do something for them and while doing so they point out all that THEY have decided is wrong/ inadequate about it. "

I think it's quite interesting that I made this error which I only noticed on re-reading the post  24 hours later. I think it's cognitive dissonance. We know, on an intellectual level, that the criticism is illogical and inaccurate, yet there's some unconscious stuff going on. Subconsciously, and before our adult brains can properly deconstruct the moment, we respond emotionally, as powerless children, and we believe them.

In turn, the work we've done on ourselves  help us to perceive the toxicity. We may even robustly tell them why/ how they are mistaken about their situation and about us. That sort of appeal to their logic gets discarded. They prefer their narrative, the one which controls us and so delivers supply.
Our being aware of the wrongness of it all doesn't  protect us from the feelings of hurt and rejection we have. These are the responses we have been taught to feel, enabled by the conditioning we were subjected to as children.

This is what we're up against.

I'm VVLC with my UNPDdad because of this.
NC with UNPDSis. 
I never go and see dad on my own, always with my husband. He behaves better for most of the visit.
I know that's a tricky one for you to take your wife. But if not, then keep the visit shorter and don't do any extra errands. Just say you can't and then  leave with a cheery smile.

Haha good idea..... I can see the thinking behind this......

Trouble is my wife hates him (quite rightly) so she'd never go visit him.

[nanotech]

Perfect example of when you do something for them and while doing so they point out all that is wrong/ inadequate about it.

I should have written;

"Perfect example of when you do something for them and while doing so they point out all that THEY have decided is wrong/ inadequate about it. "

I think it's quite interesting that I made this error which I only noticed on re-reading the post  24 hours later. I think it's cognitive dissonance. We know, on an intellectual level, that the criticism is illogical and inaccurate, yet there's some unconscious stuff going on. Subconsciously, and before our adult brains can properly deconstruct the moment, we respond emotionally, as powerless children, and we believe them.

In turn, the work we've done on ourselves  help us to perceive the toxicity. We may even robustly tell them why/ how they are mistaken about their situation and about us. That sort of appeal to their logic gets discarded. They prefer their narrative, the one which controls us and so delivers supply.
Our being aware of the wrongness of it all doesn't  protect us from the feelings of hurt and rejection we have. These are the responses we have been taught to feel, enabled by the conditioning we were subjected to as children.

This is what we're up against.

I'm VVLC with my UNPDdad because of this.
NC with UNPDSis. 
I never go and see dad on my own, always with my husband. He behaves better for most of the visit.
I know that's a tricky one for you to take your wife. But if not, then keep the visit shorter and don't do any extra errands. Just say you can't and then  leave with a cheery smile.

Haha good idea..... I can see the thinking behind this......

Trouble is my wife hates him (quite rightly) so she'd never go visit him.

Yes it's a different dynamic with mine, he's a bit more careful what he says when hubby is there and he doesn't go off on a  dramatic narcissistic rant because hubby seems to be able to stop that in its tracks. I'm not sure how.  Think it's because he's a male relative but not one he's been able to indoctrinate from a young age.
It's trickier for you. I've read s lot of your posts, and I can't think of anyone your dad listens to who isn't also toxic to you.
This is the situation I have with my unpdsis,  I've ended up having to go NC with her except funerals/ weddings.

[p123]

Last nights classics "Im so depressed I never get to go out anywhere"..... If you remember I took him over xmas to see his sister who lives a mile away that he hadnt seen for 3 years.

Last night he was moaning he hadn't seen one of his friends for over a year - he lives even closer - 1/2 mile.

Its as if they're all just waiting to die! All of them have got TONS of money. I almost screamed "Get a taxi and go and see family and friends"

Its a mystery to me.....Jeez I hope I'm never like that.

[lkdrymom]

When my father would start in with his 'problems' I would ask "So what are you going to do about it?" Your father is like my grandmother...they drop hints...and you are supposed to pick up on them and offer assistance.  Put everything he says right back on him.

[p123]

When my father would start in with his 'problems' I would ask "So what are you going to do about it?" Your father is like my grandmother...they drop hints...and you are supposed to pick up on them and offer assistance.  Put everything he says right back on him.

That's what I do now. I point out what he could do and then there's silence.
Dads attitude can be summed up as "Don't want to spend any money, I'm old so everyone needs to look after me"

I just cannot fathom why anyone would sit at home lonely, have thousands in the bank, just because they didn't want to spend a little money......

[hhaw]

Your father's childhood trauma is likely the cause if his irrational belief system, P.

He doesn't understand it himself.

Just take care if yourself and your family.  Your dad might try something new....might stay the same.....maybe get worse.

It's not up to you.  It's up to him.

Be peaceful in your choices. 

Your dad's choices are his.

[lkdrymom]

When my father would start in with his 'problems' I would ask "So what are you going to do about it?" Your father is like my grandmother...they drop hints...and you are supposed to pick up on them and offer assistance.  Put everything he says right back on him.

That's what I do now. I point out what he could do and then there's silence.
Dads attitude can be summed up as "Don't want to spend any money, I'm old so everyone needs to look after me"

I just cannot fathom why anyone would sit at home lonely, have thousands in the bank, just because they didn't want to spend a little money......

Because having money in the bank allows him to lord it over others.  May not work with you but I bet it works with your brother.  My grandmother was the same way...except she didn't have any money.  She told my boyfriend once that she knew I'd be happy to spend her money when she was gone.  What money?  If she had any it would go to her two sons.  I inherited the ugliest set of dishes you have ever seen. 

[p123]

When my father would start in with his 'problems' I would ask "So what are you going to do about it?" Your father is like my grandmother...they drop hints...and you are supposed to pick up on them and offer assistance.  Put everything he says right back on him.

That's what I do now. I point out what he could do and then there's silence.
Dads attitude can be summed up as "Don't want to spend any money, I'm old so everyone needs to look after me"

I just cannot fathom why anyone would sit at home lonely, have thousands in the bank, just because they didn't want to spend a little money......

Because having money in the bank allows him to lord it over others.  May not work with you but I bet it works with your brother.  My grandmother was the same way...except she didn't have any money.  She told my boyfriend once that she knew I'd be happy to spend her money when she was gone.  What money?  If she had any it would go to her two sons.  I inherited the ugliest set of dishes you have ever seen.

Yeh you might be right there - brother is ALWAYS skint.  Because of the time he spends in the pub that is!