UNPDstbxw sees me as black and white at the same time

[escapingman]

As the topic says, STBX sees me as black and white at the same time. At home she is trying to claim she wants us to be amicable and share everything. She is trying to stop the divorce and invite me to events and be nice to me. At the same time she is threatening me and demands more than her share through her solicitor.

Is it possible that she has made me 2 people in her world, one is the one she can see and one is my solicitor which she can't see?

[square]

It's possible, who knows.

I think more likely her thinking is "maybe I can get him to back down, but if not I will look and feel like a total victim because I tried so haaaaaard, plus as far as the lawyers go, if he won't cave, fine, I'm playing hardball."

The way to make sense of it is IT'S ALL A TACTIC.

[Poison Ivy]

Every human being is a combination of positive and negative traits (I prefer to not say "black and white" because that suggests one color is better than another). So, your wife engages in positive behavior at some times; at others, she engages in negative behavior.

[escapingman]

Poison, what I mean is she is trying to be reasonable to my face and expect me to be nice to her at the same time as she is trying to attack me behind my back through her solicitor. I see her as one person and if she is threatening me through her solicitor I struggle to engage in conversation and pretend to be friends.

[SonofThunder]

Poison, what I mean is she is trying to be reasonable to my face and expect me to be nice to her at the same time as she is trying to attack me behind my back through her solicitor. I see her as one person and if she is threatening me through her solicitor I struggle to engage in conversation and pretend to be friends.

EM, i thought she was trying to restrict your use of certain rooms and acting controlling. The 'events' you describe, and her being nice sporadically; could it be related to her concern for her public reputation, trying to love-bomb you to get you to show up with her publicly to avoid awkward questions about her being there without you at these events,  or other reputation upholding situations (either in front of kids, friends or public).  But behind private doors and especially through the mouthpiece of her solicitor, her truth/reality claws come out? 

Its always about the PD's needs....one way or another. 

SoT

[square]

That part stood out to me too, SoT, though I didn't express it. Her home behaviors are at best a mixed bag, not painting white. Honestly it sounds like it's mostly the other way.

But the swinging back and forth is so confusing and exhausting all by itself.

[escapingman]

This is so difficult to explain, I suppose explaining a PD behaviour is impossible. What I meant is that she at he same time as she pretends to be nice to me she is attacking me from behind. But she is very much the same in front of me as well, at times. She is losing it completely as the control is not on her side. She is now sending GC to abuse me and SG as she needs reinforcement, but tonight her mask slipped again and she showed us the ugly truth behind the mask. SG told me she was frightened to see the face of the angriest person she ever seen. I wish I had a video recording on it, I only have a voice recording but that will have caught her complete nastiness.

Today was the day of STBX's family party, a 2 hour drive away and then a 2 hour drive back. I had said no to coming although she has tried to get me to come for weeks. So this morning she started complaining to GC she didn't fell well, she had a migraine. She kept complaining for about an hour and said she won't be able to drive due to the migraine. In the end I confronted her and said I don't think you should drive if you have a migraine, she replied she agreed and please could I drive and come with to the event. I told her again I would not come with  her and that she needed to stay at home as she can't drive with a migraine. Suddenly, her migraine was gone and she was fine to drive. I challenged her and said its dangerous to drive with a migraine and I want the kids to stay at home. GC lost it and started shouting at me that mum is the best driver in the world. SG refused to travel and actually stayed at home with me. Just when they where leaving STBX came to me and looked at me and said, I never had a migraine I just wanted you to come to the event.... I actually felt sick after that.

[square]

Wow, she admitted it.

Well played, btw.

[SonofThunder]

Ahhh....the migraines.  Know it well.  Although my stbx has never admitted to faking one, but they surely disappear quickly just at the last second.  Been there many-many times.

Imo your stbx doesnt want the awkward questions to answer in public about your absence from the party so she tried to guilt you to go to use your presence as a "all is good 😀" facade.  Your attending a relationship circles 3-5 event like this, also provides her a stronger future 'victim' role when the divorce becomes public knowledge among all circles 3-5.  You will be the jerk of a husband who walked out on his family or tore a family in pieces.  Folks will say "wasnt EM with Mrs EM at the party just a few ______ ago??"..."Oh my gosh, poor Mrs EM...🥺". 

Good call on the migraine by refusing to go and putting her in a position to stay home. 

SoT

[Andeza]

... So, can't tell you how many family events, church services, birthday parties, trips to the movies, trips anywhere, etc.... Were spoiled, rescheduled, or canceled altogether because of my uBPDm's migraines. Just want to throw some support your way that this appears to be a common complaint. I think it may be due to the nature of migraines. They are hard to prove one way or another.

[guitarman]

The black or white is all "cognitive dissonance". I found my uBPD/NPD sister's behaviour difficult to understand. She could hold two different conflicting opinions at the same time. Her behaviour didn't match what she was saying. Abusing people yet at the same time saying that she loved them. If you love someone you don't frequently shout, scream and swear at them. You don't cause them distress and trauma.

If it hurts it isn't love.

I learnt to believe her behaviour not what she was saying. Judge people by their actions not by their words. Believe what they do not what they say.

Cognitive dissonance is such a difficult concept to understand because it's not logical or reasonable. That's why it all feels so weird. None of it makes any sense to a rational person. It's not based on reason but emotions and emotions will change for them all the time. It's all so surreal and bizarre.

The phrase "I hate you, please don't leave" sums it up for me. Holding two contradictory beliefs at the same time.

I'm sure Dr Ramani and other YouTube people you follow explain it better. I'm still trying to understand cognitive dissonance and the impact it has had on my mental health.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting. 

[SonofThunder]

Hi Guitarman,

I do not desire to derail EM's thread, as but i have read the below comments in other replies on different threads. Wondering if you have a thread of your own which i may visit, which discusses these two comments and if the comments are your own or the writings of another person.  Thanks.

"If you love someone....You don't cause them distress and trauma."

"If it hurts it isn't love."

————

Returning to EM's thread,

I also believe the "i hate you don't leave me" and other contradictory actions/reactions are, as Guitarman stated, 'Cognitive Dissonance'. I also believe that the foundational PD trait that drives those types actions/reactions is fear of abandonment (foa). 

I believe foa is the most fundamental trait that fuels the PD engine, and is emotionally overwhelming for the PD to experience when foa upwells from the depths of their minds.  I have experienced this now 2x in my separation experiences and also when experiencing my stbx with loss of a loved one.  Absolutely mentally crippling.  Therefore, the cognitive dissonance is, imo, a tool for a PD to administer both control-minded bullying and a desire for retention of the target, to steer the FOGgy relationship to their own needs and avoid foa experiences. 

If your experiences are like my own, i recommend you hardened-steel your backbone for future experiences with your stbxw when foa rises to the surface. It is a VERY difficult situation to deal with, as the emotions that were experienced when putting a female PD in a foa situation, were so INCREDIBLY raw. 

*Ive also 'divorced' my uNPDfather in many ways and the experience was entirely different with a male.  He experiences foa but it shows up in anger and walking out in confident cockiness to convey "i dont need you".

But, we must stay the course to protect ourselves and finally get ourselves permanently off the IDD hamster wheel and the drama triangle.  Hang in there my friend.  Ready your mind and your backbone EM and press onward.

I believe that adult PD's will go to all lengths to avoid foa, but once they have finally faced it and realize there is actually life on the other side, they are more self-confident for the experience.  Therefore, i believe that eventually, my actions to finally protect myself may actually be beneficial for my stbx in her life ahead.  Which therefore, if that is possibly true, then by loving myself in this way, i may be loving (desiring/facilitating what is most beneficial) my stbxwife by divorcing her, and if not leaving, may prolong the foa's grip on her life for not allowing her to fully experience the foa head-on.

So again, I surely am playing a part in my wife's experiences of "distress' and "hurt", in the foa experiences, but it is required to bring myself peace and may indeed be a "loving" move on my part, toward both of us.

SoT

[escapingman]

The show goes on, more abuse by both STBX and GC towards both me and SG. Me and SG had to leave the house to save our ears from the verbal garbage thrown at us. Halfway to the car I realised I forgot my carpets on my desk, approximately 5 meters from the front door. I went in and collected them, without taking my shoes off and left some grass straws on the carpet in the hall..... STBX came after me screaming at me about how could I and how nasty I was, at the same time GC started hitting me screaming at me as well. Whilst leaving the house STBX came after me screaming, not realising..... people where on the pavement looking at her 

I think the only way to save GC is to have STBX removed or arrested. So that will be next step.

[square]

Glad you and SG left rather than staying for that.

Glad neighbors saw the crazy.

Good lord.

[guitarman]

SonofThunder - The phrase "If it hurts it isn't love" comes from the author and counsellor Kris Godinez. She specialises in Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and shows how targets of abuse can cope better.

Her YouTube channel is called "We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez". I have learnt a lot from her and watch her YouTube channel regularly.

I have my own thread in the "Dealing With PD Siblings and Other Family Members" part of the forum. You are welcome to discuss any matters there.

I also make frequent recommendations in the "Other Media Resources" section as well.

[guitarman]

escapingman - This episode reminds me about my uBPD/NPD sister. Her neighbour told me that she would scream and swear at her husband in the middle of the street outside their house.

She often would get her neighbour to intervene and try and get her son out of his bedroom where he had barricaded himself inside to protect himself from all the abuse and to get some peace from her constant loud interruptions.

I didn't know about her shouting in the street. I know she screamed and shouted a lot inside the house and I'm sure the neighbours could hear everything.

She would usually behave herself with strangers but the abusive behaviour leaked out.

The positive side to this incident is that you've now got independent witnesses to the abuse, if they can be contacted. That is why abuse is usually kept secret behind closed doors. The abuser wants to maintain a good face in front of strangers, often switching things around to appear to be the victim to them with smear campaigns, false allegations and lies.

[Rose1]

DHs expdw kept a note book of the things that were most effective at irritating him. He found found it during the divorce.

It's hard to believe with cognitive dissonance that there is actually a planning of moves,  sometimes to keep you from finding out something else that might be going on. One of her favourites was hiding tools while he was fixing an appliance or plumbing she had sabotaged and then doing the innocent "where did you leave it?" thing.

It's chilling but part of cognitive dissonance is that we find it difficult to comprehend the deliberate nature of this, either for payback, attention diversion or outright war if they don't get their way.


She was definitely on the low functioning side with multiple diagnoses.

My exbpdh would also do stuff but more subtle. In his case it seemed to be more about enjoyment and payback. Its nasty. And it took me a long time to see the smirk that he had got to me and realise it was all deliberate  because of the denial,  you must have misunderstood etc that was going on. We just do not think the same way.
So I say beware. Its a nasty game and like sot said, it's rooted in their  needs and wants only.

[SonofThunder]

SonofThunder - The phrase "If it hurts it isn't love" comes from the author and counsellor Kris Godinez. She specialises in Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and shows how targets of abuse can cope better.

Her YouTube channel is called "We Need To Talk with Kris Godinez". I have learnt a lot from her and watch her YouTube channel regularly.

I have my own thread in the "Dealing With PD Siblings and Other Family Members" part of the forum. You are welcome to discuss any matters there.

I also make frequent recommendations in the "Other Media Resources" section as well.

Thank you Guitarman, i will check out the provided information and resources.

SoT

[escapingman]

Thanks for all you support.

So after the disaster yesterday, me entertaining SG all day, going to the park, playing basketball, football, going swimming, having pizza, STBX decides to love bomb SG and get her into her camp (not surprisingly after a fallout with GC). SG so confused but buy into it to get some crumbs of fake love from her mum.  So now, to try to stay in the good books with her mum, she is acting weird with me.

The dynamic of living with a PD is just killing. It's just killing me.

[feralcat]

Would you mind if I ask how old the kids are ?