The truth war goes on

[Stillirise]

Each little victory can give you the strength to trudge through the swamp just a little longer! You're doing great! When things get difficult, remember to keep your eye on the prize, and remember your end game.  This is a relatively short-term battle, when considering the rest of your and your girls' lives.  You've shown tremendous courage so far.  Hang in there!

[escapingman]

After digesting the last couple of days and today in particular, I realised that uNPDx stunt to call the emergency hearing she didn't want in the end probably gave me 2 months of time. What the judge probably would have said on the hearing in 2 months, was said today and all investigations ordered by the judge. So instead of waiting for 2 months, the ball is rolling. uNPDx did not look happy, but hey shit happens when you try to lie you way through everything. I think I already secured my barrister again for next meeting, she is awesome, she knows PD I can see. My solicitor talked to me with compassion after the hearing knowing about abuse. I am so happy I got them in my team. I am paying a fortune, but they are doing their job so far. SG told me today I looked depressed and asked me if I needed a hug and gave me a big one. She is the best and I do anything for her, and her sister who I desperately want to see. But I am biding my time, if I have to wait 6 months I will wait 6 months, but I am going to save her, she needs a life.

Thanks for all support, I would not be here without you!

[escapingman]

I know what I need to do, go down in that coal mine and dig up the dirtiest of the recordings and create a filing system of them. This will be a test of my mental strength, I really don't know if I can do it but I have to. During the hearing yesterday uNPDx's solicitor accused me of being as abusive as STBX, but that she had no recordings. Is that likely anyone would believe? I really don't think so. Obviously I don't know what people believe and not believe but she did not sound like she knew anything about PD. I don't think she defended uNPDx well at all and dismissed my recordings with that I should have tried to stop the abuse instead of recording. In my world that is her actually admitting abuse has happened, but she has not heard the recordings, no one has so far, but I actually feel the judge was more on my side than on uNPDx yesterday. uNPDx solicitor tried to block the court from retrieving reports from the police, that failed and the judge said those needs to be retrieved. I have no doubt uNPDx will create more stories during the coming weeks, I would not put it past her to fabricate evidence and get her mum and flying monkeys to lie for her.

Before, I have always said my hardest achievement was to gain my university degree. That will be a minor achievement compared to achieving freedom from uNPDx.

[escapingman]

Anyone having any suggestions how I can listen to these recordings without getting ill? I tried again but it's so triggering and I feel so much anger and distress.

[hhaw]

Imagine your Judge and the Socilal Workers and opposing Counsels's faces....
and STBX's face as the worst of the tapes are played inside the courtroom.

THAT.......
imagine that, EM.

If that's not enough to get you through the tapes, imagine getting both your daughters safe with economy of motion, time and trauma.

Economy of trauma.

[square]

I know it sounds weird but take a painkiller (ibuprofen, acetominaphine). It helps emotional pain a little.

How does one stop abuse? I mean, she was willing to be abusive. The only way to stop it is to overpower her, which is abusive.

They may claim that you acted better when recording but were some monster when you weren't. The counter for that is that you were recording almost all the time. That you recorded because you were so beaten down you weren't even sure if it was happening, took a long time to get the strength to escape it. If you were a co-abuser, you would not have recorded basically every moment of your waking life.

[square]

Think about how to phrase how often you recorded. If you say "almost all the time" they could say "aha! Except when you were abusing." Button it down to "I was recording all waking hours together except some times she returned much earlier than anticipated, or entered the room and stood behind my desk chair, and other times I was unable to begin recording without her knowledge." Or something to that effect.

[hhaw]

eM:

You're right.  Opposing counsel seems to be conceeding his client IS an abuser, by qualifying it with "but em did it too."

That's the only sound an attorney can make when their client ADMITS there's going to be evidence against them, IME.

And..... I think you can perhaps relax about there being evidence against you,. bc they likely would have gone ahead with it and had the hearing IF they had any, which apparently they don't.

What else do you know now, that you didn't?  Your stbx is not looking forward to a more in depth look at her parenting and how the kiddos are doing.  Sure, she aced that in home peek a boo session, but psych evaluations aren't going to be THAT.

When the investigation begins and I sort of hope it does, you'll have posters on the board helping you understand, prepare and get through it. 

And remember.... you're going through the tough aspects of trial prep NOW..... your stbx has done NOTHING and likely won't.  When trial finally hits, you'll be stowed away, have it organized and orderly while she's flipping out KNOWING what you have against her. 

There's nothing like the sound of an abuser's booming voice as they abuse, threaten and harm...... right there, for everyone to hear it.  If a picture speaks a thousand words....
having evrerything on tape leaves zero room for all that "interpretation" attorneys try to get away with. 

Sure, opposing counsel can finger point at the guy recording the abuse, but...... if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.... and your Judge is listening.....
it's a damn duck.

I agree with Square about the pain killers.... and maybe throw on an energy drink if they hit just right for you.  A shot of energy can carry you through this with tremendous focus and clarity..... to GET what you need and finish it up quick, em.

There are energy drinks that aren't so poisonois now, btw.  Stay away from Red Bull if you can.

[escapingman]

Thank you all, you are stars!

I do think I have enough evidence already, but as you say, the more the better. I asked my solicitor what she think is needed. After the last week and the hearing yesterday, and then listening to recordings again this morning, I had to go back to bed and slept for 2 hours. I am shattered, my bode just want and need sleep. But, I basically have all day tomorrow bar a couple of hours of work I can put into this. SG is going to a church festival with a couple of friends and one of the mums so she won't be back home until bedtime - this should give me12 hours if I can hack it.

About her accusations and evidence, she has nothing, she knows it, I know it, her barrister knows it. I would not be surprised if I found GC standing on the door step one day and her surrender to stop an investigation and humiliating court procedure. We tried to agree about a safe person to monitor GC and SG meeting. I suggested one of the mums both girls has known for 8 years, who is GC's best friends mum and also is having a professions of status. uNPDx said no to her as she doesnn't want the story to leak out and instead suggested her flying monkey and best friend (obviously rejected by me on the spot).

I have started to lay the path to open up to the parents of one of SG's friends. They know we are separating and that uNPDx and GC moved out, but they don't YET know the full story. This is the family that has offered help and an open door before, I think when the time is right the story will be dropped. I think they will listen.  They have no history with uNPDx and doesn't know her, this is a new family for us and are invovled in out of school activities that uNPDx despise.

On a completely different note, I stopped clearling up after SG and the place is starting to look like a tip. SG came to me yesterday and asked if we should spend a day together and clean the house. Bingo! (there is a lot of my mess too as I have had no chance to keep on top of everything during the last weeks events).

[escapingman]

Just wanted to add to the previous comment, before uNPDx would surrender GC or surrender, I am pretty sure she is going to try to coach GC and for GC to accuse me of abuse. This is and has been my worry all the time, as whatever uNPDx says, GC does. Hopefully the professionals can see through it and any made up accusations.

[square]

Sadly, if you spend time with GC in tge future you'll probably have to record it as well. Hopefully it'll come to a point where false accusations are finally seen as futile. I'd hate to record my child and it gives me an icky feeling as uPPDFIL recorded SIL as a child but this is totally different.

[escapingman]

Sadly, if you spend time with GC in tge future you'll probably have to record it as well. Hopefully it'll come to a point where false accusations are finally seen as futile. I'd hate to record my child and it gives me an icky feeling as uPPDFIL recorded SIL as a child but this is totally different.

I am going to install CCTV in the house that records all the time if she comes back, I really don't want to but probably have to.

[square]

Not in their room(s), of course. Manually record interactions in their room(s) on your phone.

[escapingman]

Not in their room(s), of course. Manually record interactions in their room(s) on your phone.

No only downstairs, but I haven't looked into it. Maybe it is possible to install some voice recording system over the entire house just in case. I don't want to go back to recording everything on the mobile. But it is very premature talking about GC coming home, I wish I could be optimistic but I am not so sure. If she really wants to stay with uNPDx and the authorities thinks that it is safe that is what will happen. I am worried sick, but I will do my best.

[Cat of the Canals]

Anyone having any suggestions how I can listen to these recordings without getting ill? I tried again but it's so triggering and I feel so much anger and distress.

I highly recommend this breathing exercise. For me, it has a kind of magical effect of turning off my "fight or flight" response. I'd try it both before and after these stressful events: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tybOi4hjZFQ

[pushit]

You're at the worst part right now, tensions are high and the lawyers want to fight.  Remember, that's what lawyers thrive on.  They want to win, and they want to argue.  Her side will bluff and accuse you of anything they can come up with, then when proved wrong they will shift the argument.

When I was at this stage, man what a circus.  I filed for divorce and moved out, then three days later my (now) exPDw got angry and filed for divorce herself and I was served at work in dramatic fashion.  A few days later my sister forwarded me an email that my exPDw had sent to her with a temporary restraining order against me.  I sent it to my lawyers to let them handle it.  Nothing came of it, because it was a false document full of fantasy abuse accusations.  Then my exPDw ended up on a mental health hold and the kids were with me for two weeks.  All the while, her parents covering her butt and lawyers bickering.  Total S-show.  Through the whole discovery period her lawyer was shouting all the time - about financial statements, accusing me of hiding financial data, about selling the house, about time with the kids - you name it.  We just kept calm and continued to prove her lawyer wrong.

The reality is that it was all bluff and bluster.  Her lawyer was protecting her, but as we peeled the layers off the onion they had nothing to stand on.  We went into our first mediation session expecting a lot of accusations and a probable trial.  The end result was my exPDw settled that same day with everything I wanted.  Then it was signed off by a judge a month later.

Stand tall and don't back down.  Abusers hate their actions seeing the light of day.  You've got this. 

[hhaw]

EM:

WHen I first began seeing my Trauma Therapist I was huffing and puffing my way thru every day..... I'd find myself breathing big in the car, in my bathroom and automatically in the T's office..... if was my body trying SO hard to learn a new way of BEING.

You can practice brathing in and out slowly too.  The thing about breathing slowly is......
a bear CAN'T be chasing you whi;e you're breathing like that.  A dragon can't.  No beastie can be attacking or threatening you, bc biochemistry is reactive and breathing goes up, heartrate, your get tunnel vision..... if breathing is steady and slow.....
the body is tricked into feeling calmer and safer and responsive instead of ractive, IME.

Another positive of breathing yourself steady is your girls will be watching and listenting...... and more likely to add that to their coping toolbox.  I hear my youngest fall into my breathing when she doesn't mean to or even want to.... like when she and I were at the accupuncturist together and she was very upset about having to sit still for 45 minutes... so very still.  She just picked up the breathing... I heard her do it and she's learning whether she wants to or not.

Try it as you're moving through your tapes.  Breathe deeply..... and get the job done.  Drink icy cold water, splash your face with icy water.

It's my experience you'll have to go through trial prep... ever step of it before the PD settles, IF she'll settle at all.  Just let that be what it is..... part of putting this behind you. 

You can't change it.  You can't go around it.  You can't go over it..... or under it. 

You have to go through it and you're in it. 

Finish it and finish strong so you don't have to go through trial after trial after trial.

Let the PD reap every conseuquence of her actions..... it's the ONLY way she'll have a shot at getting help, IME.

It's the only shot you have at getting the girls some real help, IME.

If you settle.... if you stop trial prep and put those tapes away...... and it's likely the PD WILL try to make you believe she'll settle or whatever...... your childen will have to live with their mother's abuse uninterrupted during regular visitation with the stbx sabotaging EVERY effort to get them into T, IME.

Finish the trial prep.... just.... don't put it down for any reason at all.  Just put your head down, like you're doing now, and get it done all the way through.

THAT is your strongest position.  THAT is the place where you SHOW the Court who's who and what's what, IME.

I told you the stbx will shoot herself in the foot... and that's what she did when she got that emergency hearing while you felt slighted and not listened to and punished.....
but the PD shot herself in the foot and you gained 2 months and YOU got that emergency hearing,bc of the STBX.

Don't assume ANYTHING is bad until it shakes out, EM.

PDs are reactive...t hey can't seem to look down the road and SEE what will happen if they do A..... they just see the temporary pressure it puts ON YOU and it WILL put pressure on you.

If you just hold..... hold....hold.....the PD's action often bounces off you and back onto them.

IF you hold your position, don't lose your mind and lash out in rage and defensiveness..... the Court SEES THEM instead.

IF YOU CONTINUE EXCEllent TRIAL PREP.... without stopping....but just do what you CAN, then put the story on the shelf revgularly... for mental health breaks and to be present with your children in the ways you can be........
yu avoid all the foolishness of believing you can get through this without completing trial prep, IME.

Trial prep is strngth and empowerment and the very best strategy for geting the very best outcome for you and the girls..... and not having to repeat this nightmare over and over and over...... if you get all the way to that final trial courtroom.  If you get what  you NEED into the record and FINAL ORDER..... get that Judge to write that bullet proof ORder to keep you nad the children safe from the PD's whims and rages and veangence...... gain higher ground and position to leverage the PD's safety...
THAT's what you need, EM.

You don't need to settle.  Settliing won't ever evr ever strengthen your position...... it's mean to bring you to the middle when you're so far stretchend into the void...into unsafe territory... into a place you can't mentally survive..... coming to the middle isn't a place you can afford to go or be and it means you'll have to go there over and over and over, IME.

Pretend happiness if your attorney bleieves the PD will settle,but KNOW trial prep should always be on your plate... it never goes away till you have the ORDER in your hand, singed and in force and enforcable through the Courts, EM.

PDs are Lucy with the football, as you've seen,but you aren't going to play Charlie Brown any longer, bc you know better and
it's
just
too
difflcult
to
recover
from, IME.

You know better than the attorneys what you're dealing with..... bc yor wife is disordered beyond the typical litigant they deal with.

Assume the investigation is coming, be ready for it and don't let the PD wiggle out of it, just don't do it..... sooner is better than later.  OUTED is better than places for left for the PD to deny and hide, IME.  Through it, EM.

There's healing and hope and geater possibilities if you go through it, EM.

I've already told you it's a difficult line to walk.  Appearing as though you really want to settle as badly as the attonneys do, but KNOW you'll likely be forced into a trial by the PD, bc that's what the PDs ARE.... not what they DO.

Stbx will push you back by inches, take your position by meters then you'll be wondering how you lost all that ground and ability to protect yoursel and the kids...... it's in inches and meters.

Ptetend you want to settle..... but don't let them push back your line in the sand on children's safety and anything you HAVE TO HAVE to be mentally stable in the world.

I see the investigatin and psych evals as necessary to SHOW the Court who's lying and who's not.

Thinking through some knd of safe guards for vistiation with the PD, and this is YOU pushing her back by inches and meters, EM.  GET her to admit to the abuse.... get her to accept even 2 months of supervised visitation..... get her to take some responsibility instead of you giving in on ALL the safety measures to settle this faster...... which honestly.... is just a bait and switch ALWAYS, IME.  The PDs never intend to honor ANY agreement they make... it seems to be some kind of pathology.... just stick to your guns on those things and keep talking about the best interest of the children, the children,t hechildren.

That's what someone dealing with REAL abuse and ongoing traum to the children DOES, EM.  They don't settle nad give in to get the divorce over with.....they prioritize and maybe settle the money FIRST... but they don;t give in on the custody and safe visitation with an abuser, IME. 

Calm and steady gets you to the end with the best possible outcome.

Deep compassion expressed for the mentally ill mother of your beloved children.... you will always care about abusive mum, but you're a good father and you now understand the woman you married has changed and will never be the woman she was again, bc she's broken.  If she could do bettr, she would of.  She can't.

The children's safety is up to you and you're standing your ground and asking the Court protection and any remedy the Court can provide to you...... bc you're proving your case while the PD is lobbing outrageous, really really upsetting lies......
absolutely expect stbx to force GC to lodge false allegations,but those allegations will be addressed and seen as part of the abuse and alienation, which never stopped and you TOLD the Court it never stopped.

GC's story will line up suspiciously with stbx's and that's a tell..... that's how the Ts KNOW when a child is beign coached.

Ex[ect it.  Try not to let it send you reeeling, but if it does..... know it will pass and it always does.

You'll get back to disproving the lies and trial prep.... never stop the trial prep.  ACCEPT trial prep is necessary even when the attorneys are giddy and high fiving a settlement has been reached.... it has not.

Accept, keep your head down, strive to settle from a psotiton of strength but know..... the PD will push you if you let her.

YOU push her.

YOU require she accept some conseqeunces.

You WON'T be the ONLY reasonable parent in the room.  YOU unreasonbly stand up for what you need and don't let everyone bully you into compli9ance, bc at a point everyone will be ready to wash their hands of this case.... they will.

Everyone, including your own attorneys, tend to pressure the ONLY reasonable litigant into settling, regardless of what's best for the childfren, EM.

YOU have to consider the cjildren and require the Court do the same.... bc that really is't their business and the more they talk about it being their business the less they care, IME.

PROVE your case.  Take away the comfort in railroading you and the children.  SHOW them what you're protecting the children from even though it's harming you now.... you're paving the road to better mental health and serenity with these terrible tapes and they'll be behind you completely if you just stick with it......
breathe... drink icy watre, end your showers with icy water...... humm....... push on doorjambs if it gets so bad you CAN'T breathe deep and slowly....... but finish it. 

Accept you have to finish it... you can't go around it or under or over it....
you have to go through it, even if the attorneys don't want to believe it... you KNOW it and you know better than them, bc you've lived it for 12 or how many ever years it's been.

[escapingman]

Thanks hhaw

I won't settle for anything, unless it is exactly what I want. What I want is GC safely out her control and SG nowhere near her. Simple as that.

For the rest, I need to stay on the front foot and attack attack attack and not give her much time to attack herself. I know I need to go through the recordings, its hard but has to be done. I have about 2 weeks so if I can get the worst episodes it should make a difference. The judge made it clear she only want recent evidence, this is good to me as uNPDx won't be able to invent more stories that happend 3-4 years ago that noone can check. Luckily I have photo evidence to prove the physical assault I am supposed to have done and left her with bruises never happened. I have got to realise that she is not clever at all, she think she can make anything up and then lie to prove it happened. She won't get far with it this time, the only thing I am worried is lies through GC, but hopefully they will see through that. About GC, I passed her on the way from school and waved to her, she looked away as always but I got a wave and a smile from her best friend. That kind of says it all, GC hasn't said anything to her and probably pretends all is fine.

Thanks for all support.

[hhaw]

Again, the stbx and her attorney and maybe your own attorney and the Judge might want you settle your case by leaning on you to compromise....and you WLL compromise, if given the chance,. but not on the short list of MUSt HAVEs to preserve your sanity and provide safety for the children.

Compromise might be to require only SOME supervised visitation for stbx in the beginning of visitation, once it's in place.

Thinking down the road, having a very good child T in place to monitor the girls AFTER stbx has been good for whatever number of agreed upon supervised visits, having that T in place and ready to file reports that determine whether supervised visitation continues or ends.... is SO important.  Have it written into an Order.... YOU control the through the T who's an expert at determining how the children are doing with the visits.

It's almost certain the PD won't be able to be good for any number of visits, but if she is........ and she regains unsupevised time with the children you need to have back up plans in place to get things back in order...... reinstate supervised visitation.

It's difficult for anyone to argue against keeping children safe, though they often try and sometimes admit they don't care.... it's up to YOU to put that in place.  The stbx will do everything within her power to throw you off and get you to agree to things NOT in the Order....nope. 

Again, appear to everyone as though you're certainly GOING settle, but know the PD tricks and bait and switch are coming.  Yuo can mititgate that time, trouble, expense and demoralizing dashing of hope if you stay focused and accept you understand better than the attorneys what's going to happen down the road.

PDs lie, cheat, steal and harm their children, bc what's good for the PD IS GOOD FOR THE CHILDREN in the  mind of the PD, IME.

Attorneys assume litigants will follow laws/rules/ORDERS if there are consequences for breaking them,but the PDs prove time and they can and WILL break laws and skirt conseqeunces until
they're
held
accountable.

You have to have an Order tht's enforcable through the Courts and it must include detailed mechanisms to ENFORCE THAT ORDER.

So, let the PD lie and agree to things she has no intention of doing, but make sure you aren't left with filing more law suits to deal with it.

That puts the PD into the hot seat, bc it's more difficult for her to agree to things she won;t do IF swift and terribe consequences are thougt out and written into the Agreement or Order..... whatever happens, don't budge on the thngs that will keep you sane down the road.

That includes selecting whomever will supervise the visiation.  As you  have experienced, the pd won't accept who you suggest and you might need to go through a supervision company, which is more difficult on the kiddos, I think I explained that, but safety trumps PD heinous fockry and you have to do what you have to do.

We had supervisors we could hire to pick up my children,. drive them to the visitation site, which would include cousins and the farm and lake and garden and home cooked meals..... better for my children and I appeared to want things as "normal" for everyone as could be managed, BUT I DIDN'T expect the PDs to take me up on those opportunities and they never did in 2 years, not once.

What they did was LOSE a Grandparent Visitation suit, LOSE IT, choose to not see my children ONCE under supervised conditions then they had the audacity to file a CUSTODY suit (Crazy since they were unsafe for visitation) and GET that lawsuit   up and running. 

That custody suit was based on my being an unfit parent:
My refusing to allow ANY visitation at all between my children and the Grandparents:  :no:LIES.
Based on those lies and e mails given out of context, and I will say they certainly looked bad and cast me in a very poor light, but it was worse bc the Court Appointed T had been unduly influenced by the PDs and their rat fink attorney, which had been happening to me for 5 years in other suits.

I want to be very clear about this, EM.....

attorneys will SAY everything will be OK... will go away.... will be safe and find adn right and good IF YOU JUST AGreE to sign an ORDER you KNOW will be emotional suicide for you.

The attorneys are right, only in that things get better and are right and good FOR them, the attorneys, bc they get to wash their hands of a PITA case with traumatized children and a nightmare divorce suit they do not want to litigate... they don't want to,. Em. They will do all within their power to get you to settle, but YOU KNOW what you have to do to get this right the first time,bc your children will be grown by the time you finally get to that final Courtroom to PROVE your case without a shadow of the doubt given to the PD and more settlements that don't quite get it right FOR YOU.

You make sure to cover your own arse and don't expect attorneys to understand or KNOW what has to happen to keep you sane.... YOU KNOW.  That's another reason why getting a good Forensic Child T involved helps you explain BUT ALSO form a good plan with all available resources and creativity you can muster when you really need it.

BEFORE an Agreement or Order comes down. 

90% research.
10% execution.

Find someone to help you find the energy and get you to those appointments if needed, but know the next 5 years are up for grabs here.  You tried to placate your stbx for years and failed.

Now you're left with excercising authority over the PD through the Courts.  THAT's all you have. Don't kid yourself the PD will follow any Order or "recommendation" from the Court, bc she will not.

Nuff said.

[escapingman]

Thanks hhaw,

I am waiting for the order that has been sent to the judge to see what it actually says, I don't need to sign it I suppose. But, short term I think it has been agreed social services will be suggesting visitations. Again, I am sure I can disagree if they come up with something stupid. It looks like they are going to do an assessment now and I am waiting for a meeting next week, now the important fight starts. Although it is the judge that decides in the end, she will be heavily influenced by the social workers and the children's services recommendations. I need to be ready and fights. 

Regarding finances, which is the other thing going on in parallel and not connected to custody, but still need to be fought at the same time, I had made STBX an offer, I havent heard back from solicitor but I think she just ignored it. I am quite please that I told the solicitor that we are not doing it the normal way as she is used to, we are offering something I want and not necessary what's fair. Whatever I would have offered would have been turned down. Now, unless something happened last minute and I havent been updated yet, the ball is in her court regarding finances. I am living in the house, she is not, I have no rush to vacate, until we sell she is stuck with her mum. Let's see how that pans out. Just because custody is my priority, I still need to fight all other fights as well. I have a plan, she will absolutely lose it if I can do it, I have put it to my solicitor and I am waiting for confirmation if I can do it or not. It is not the normal way, it is the way you have to do it when dealing with a PD.

I spent the afternoon going through recordings, but in the end I could only do a few hours. I then treated myself and went for a massage, SG is out with friends, never has a massage felt so good. I have gone before, but my body reacted so much more to it this time and with real relaxation. Loved it. It's over 5 weeks of no contact now, what a bliss.