Recent posts
#61
Dealing with PD In-Laws / Re: Really really BAD advice a...
Last post by sunshine702 - May 01, 2024, 11:43:43 AMYeah I first read the article going — right you shouldn't just assume that your in-laws are a bad because of the role. That makes sense.
But this is the sort of stuff written by therapists that refuse to understand Personality Disorder Abuse! And that there are real reasons people go No Contact for their relationship and for their kids.
But this is the sort of stuff written by therapists that refuse to understand Personality Disorder Abuse! And that there are real reasons people go No Contact for their relationship and for their kids.
#62
Working on Us / Re: The toll of chronic invali...
Last post by LoverofPeace - May 01, 2024, 11:01:25 AMQuoteThat just seems sad to me. In a weird way I feel sorry for my mom because she was treated badly as well. Despite her abusive behaviour, she seemed lost.
A lot of that blame shifting they seem to do is so they can disinherit that negative outcome onto someone else, so they can remain happy and more importantly guilt free. Instead of confronting their own behaviour it gets passed onto someone else. I heard narcissists/abusers have intense shame that they try to disinherit.
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So we'll said. I'm glad at least we know what's happening with them doing all that, but it still has its effects on us, who aren't trying to do that to other people.
And it seems they get to live blissfully ignorant. However, teachers like Vaknin say that they are definitely suffering inside.
It's weird because I don't want for me, them, or anyone to suffer. Yet, they want that for us with the blame shifting/disinheriting.
#63
Chosen Relationships / Re: I can't figure out if my w...
Last post by sunshine702 - May 01, 2024, 10:57:35 AMSometime when I find myself asking is this situation X OR Y?
I try to journal the situation as This situation is X AND Y and here is evidence of both and my perception is actually pretty good (after years of gas lighting that part is important!)
I try to journal the situation as This situation is X AND Y and here is evidence of both and my perception is actually pretty good (after years of gas lighting that part is important!)
#64
Going No Contact with a PD Parent / Re: I see them tomorrow, wish ...
Last post by moglow - May 01, 2024, 10:52:02 AMHallelujah!![/b] I was so hoping this would be the outcome for you! I can only imagine the inner eyerolls about how hard it would be for them -the adults- with no consideration for the children. Abusers are who they are and you need to protect your young ones. And what happened in the past isn't relevant?!! cough BULLSHIT cough cough
And STILL no consideration for you, their own child. I bet that was glaringly obvious as well.
This just makes my heart happy for you!
I am curious - and please disregard if you don't want to answer- did they reach out to you at all? Speak to you? Show any warmth?
And STILL no consideration for you, their own child. I bet that was glaringly obvious as well.
This just makes my heart happy for you!
I am curious - and please disregard if you don't want to answer- did they reach out to you at all? Speak to you? Show any warmth?
#65
Working on Us / Re: The toll of chronic invali...
Last post by Invisiblewoman - May 01, 2024, 10:51:28 AMNarcissism and Shame
I think my brother was quick to isolate me during my mom's death because I represented shame to him. He abused me at my mom's encouragement. He was quick to say I'd "have an outburst" or cause problems.
My aunt was after me over the way I made her feel with my reaction when she tried to give my address to my mother.
My aunt went on about how wonderful she is when I asked her to quit playing games with me. I told her I won't tolerate gaslighting. She absolutely lost it and attacked me, and put me down while boasting about how she has a wonderful life and wonderful things to fill up her life, and thus doesn't need my criticism. She absolutely wanted to destroy me. My criticism was an attack and so she had to put me below her. She tore me down personally.
It was strange because my reaction to criticism and rage from others is to check myself, and try to take responsibility. Narcissistic rage is not about responsibility though and it's about them disinheriting their abuse back onto you.
I think that's what finally got me to a stage of no contact. I recognized there was no equal footing in the relationship, and I was just going to inherit their negativity.
They made it easy for me to leave, and I am grateful in a strange way.
I am still apprehensive about opening up but I think it's okay to examine what was said. I took on the dark emotions of certain family for far too long I think.
I think my brother was quick to isolate me during my mom's death because I represented shame to him. He abused me at my mom's encouragement. He was quick to say I'd "have an outburst" or cause problems.
My aunt was after me over the way I made her feel with my reaction when she tried to give my address to my mother.
My aunt went on about how wonderful she is when I asked her to quit playing games with me. I told her I won't tolerate gaslighting. She absolutely lost it and attacked me, and put me down while boasting about how she has a wonderful life and wonderful things to fill up her life, and thus doesn't need my criticism. She absolutely wanted to destroy me. My criticism was an attack and so she had to put me below her. She tore me down personally.
It was strange because my reaction to criticism and rage from others is to check myself, and try to take responsibility. Narcissistic rage is not about responsibility though and it's about them disinheriting their abuse back onto you.
I think that's what finally got me to a stage of no contact. I recognized there was no equal footing in the relationship, and I was just going to inherit their negativity.
They made it easy for me to leave, and I am grateful in a strange way.
I am still apprehensive about opening up but I think it's okay to examine what was said. I took on the dark emotions of certain family for far too long I think.
#66
Going No Contact with a PD Parent / Re: From NC to legal proceedin...
Last post by Generic_Username - May 01, 2024, 10:28:14 AM #67
Going No Contact with a PD Parent / Re: I see them tomorrow, wish ...
Last post by Generic_Username - May 01, 2024, 10:27:22 AMThank you so much for all your kind words and support. It truly means the world, and I held them in my mind while trying to stay calm.
Court was a surreal experience, I had to keep reminding myself that I wasn't watching a documentary/drama. Both representatives had to give a statement summarising our positions. They chose to again talk about the impact on them as grandparents and how not seeing the kids would be hard for them. Going as far as saying that "what happened 30 years ago is not relevant to now" (not direct quote) - basically saying that any abuse that happened previously holds no relevance to these proceedings. About literal children! I saw one of the Magistrates raise their eyebrows at this!
The application was denied! I'm stunned. I really didn't know which way it would go. The deliberation took a long time, and the longer it went on the more I let myself believe that the right decision was being made.
Of course, my parents have said they'll appeal but an appeal is only against the proceedings - as in if the law or procedure has been ignored or carried out incorrectly. No more evidence is able to be submitted. We would have to attend (more cost). For today, I'm ignoring this, and I'm going to let myself process that 3 officials heard us and hopefully saw this for what it was.
Court was a surreal experience, I had to keep reminding myself that I wasn't watching a documentary/drama. Both representatives had to give a statement summarising our positions. They chose to again talk about the impact on them as grandparents and how not seeing the kids would be hard for them. Going as far as saying that "what happened 30 years ago is not relevant to now" (not direct quote) - basically saying that any abuse that happened previously holds no relevance to these proceedings. About literal children! I saw one of the Magistrates raise their eyebrows at this!
The application was denied! I'm stunned. I really didn't know which way it would go. The deliberation took a long time, and the longer it went on the more I let myself believe that the right decision was being made.
Of course, my parents have said they'll appeal but an appeal is only against the proceedings - as in if the law or procedure has been ignored or carried out incorrectly. No more evidence is able to be submitted. We would have to attend (more cost). For today, I'm ignoring this, and I'm going to let myself process that 3 officials heard us and hopefully saw this for what it was.
#68
Dealing with PD Elderly Family Members / Re: My mom's house got struck ...
Last post by moglow - May 01, 2024, 10:00:57 AMWow. I feel this with you, TimetoHeal. I kind of get the disruption to her "known" and it's agitating. But must there always be a meltdown drama? And the judgment from people who have not one clue - she doesn't WANT me there and I don't want to be there. I'm not responsible for how she chooses to live - she had options and made her decision. It's HERS. Let's just take care of what needs to be done and stop with the "you shoulds." And the forcing the nice man to step in and "fix" it for her, overlooking and disregarding everything you're doing? Familiar.
A major hurricane ran through/by mother's town several years back and of course it's the end of her world, omg it's so awful etc. I've been there and seen it - A falling tree took down the electrical connection to the house, damaged a window frame and a small portion of the roof but thankfully no actual leaks into the house itself. She never left it, it wasn't inhabitable, there was a tarp on the roof for a while just to protect until it was inspected, and like everyone else in town she didn't have power for several days. Oh and a small section of privacy fence came down. But noooooooooo. She rode that drama for years, she couldn't have company because she was embarrassed about a tarp on the roof. She lost NOTHING but you'd think her house was decimated.
Meanwhile she stopped cleaning her house "because of all the damage" so I would imagine by now it's nasty. It would be when you don't pick up and clean up after yourself, when you spill things and don't wipe it up right away etc. Let it dry in place then you'll really have a chore to clean anything. All the while expecting the dirt fairies to pop in and take care of it I guess. So it's overwhelming now. There are housekeeping services readily available nearby but no. *I'm* "supposed" to do that, if I were any kind of a daughter I already would have [quote per the one person I know talks to her other than my brother nearby].
The people nearby don't see it because of the superficial impression they put out there: frail, helpless little old ladies all alone and abandoned, their children do nothing etc. Those people have no clue what's been offered, pushed, forced only for us to have to deal with the resulting tantrums when it's not the way they want it. I won't like being helpless either but dammit she gave up DECADES ago, when she was younger than I am now! I'm TIRED of having to take care of everything plus hers on top. Thankfully I do have a brother who stepped in and drags her out when she has to go for checkups and the various doctors. Interestingly he never mentions me visiting or taking over or what he thinks I need to do for her. Either he heard me when I said I've served my time or she's made it clear how she feels about that idea. I suspect combination of both.
All that to say: I feel ya. You got this!!
A major hurricane ran through/by mother's town several years back and of course it's the end of her world, omg it's so awful etc. I've been there and seen it - A falling tree took down the electrical connection to the house, damaged a window frame and a small portion of the roof but thankfully no actual leaks into the house itself. She never left it, it wasn't inhabitable, there was a tarp on the roof for a while just to protect until it was inspected, and like everyone else in town she didn't have power for several days. Oh and a small section of privacy fence came down. But noooooooooo. She rode that drama for years, she couldn't have company because she was embarrassed about a tarp on the roof. She lost NOTHING but you'd think her house was decimated.
Meanwhile she stopped cleaning her house "because of all the damage" so I would imagine by now it's nasty. It would be when you don't pick up and clean up after yourself, when you spill things and don't wipe it up right away etc. Let it dry in place then you'll really have a chore to clean anything. All the while expecting the dirt fairies to pop in and take care of it I guess. So it's overwhelming now. There are housekeeping services readily available nearby but no. *I'm* "supposed" to do that, if I were any kind of a daughter I already would have [quote per the one person I know talks to her other than my brother nearby].
The people nearby don't see it because of the superficial impression they put out there: frail, helpless little old ladies all alone and abandoned, their children do nothing etc. Those people have no clue what's been offered, pushed, forced only for us to have to deal with the resulting tantrums when it's not the way they want it. I won't like being helpless either but dammit she gave up DECADES ago, when she was younger than I am now! I'm TIRED of having to take care of everything plus hers on top. Thankfully I do have a brother who stepped in and drags her out when she has to go for checkups and the various doctors. Interestingly he never mentions me visiting or taking over or what he thinks I need to do for her. Either he heard me when I said I've served my time or she's made it clear how she feels about that idea. I suspect combination of both.
All that to say: I feel ya. You got this!!
#69
Working on Us / Re: The toll of chronic invali...
Last post by Invisiblewoman - May 01, 2024, 09:03:32 AMQuoteI don't know if you heard of Prof. Sam Vaknin (in fact, I believe I learned about him from this forum), but he is a classic NPD'er who has Youtube videos that are very deep. I think he is one of the best at explaining NPD because he is able to go deep within the psyche of it. Thus, I remember in one of his vlogs that he said something like: the narcissist has a need to work out what broke them over and over in their head. But the outcome has to be a bad one. That's because they are like that child having a tantrum about it and wanting attention from their parent(s) that they never get sufficiently. Therefore, they are subconsciously expecting a bad, as opposed to good, outcome. And like a broken record, they're stuck with that scenario resulting in the bad outcome.
That just seems sad to me. In a weird way I feel sorry for my mom because she was treated badly as well. Despite her abusive behaviour, she seemed lost.
A lot of that blame shifting they seem to do is so they can disinherit that negative outcome onto someone else, so they can remain happy and more importantly guilt free. Instead of confronting their own behaviour it gets passed onto someone else. I heard narcissists/abusers have intense shame that they try to disinherit.
#70
Dealing with PD Elderly Family Members / Re: My mom's house got struck ...
Last post by TimetoHeal - May 01, 2024, 08:30:02 AMShe is 77, and she does have severe anxiety and probably depression as well. She won't seek treatment for it at all. She has become reclusive and won't leave the house.